Haaretz (Sunday): Cabinet votes 17-5 in favor of evacuating settlements

[Jack Rabbit]

From Haaretz (Tel Aviv)
Dated Sunday February 20

Cabinet votes 17-5 in favor of evacuating settlements
By Aluf Benn, Mazal Mualem and Amos Harel, Haaretz Correspondents

The cabinet voted 17-5 Sunday in favor of evacuating settlements in the Gaza Strip and northern West Bank.

Prime Minister Ariel Sharon said at the beginning of the weekly cabinet meeting on the evacuation that the decision is difficult but essential.

After the vote, Sharon and Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz are due to sign the evacuation orders.

Voting against the proposal were cabinet ministers Benjamin Netanyahu, Natan Sharansky, Danny Naveh, Tzachi Hanegbi, and Yisrael Katz.

Read more.

[Coastie for Truth]

1. None of the usual negative responses?

None of the usual negative predictions that Sharon will back out? None of the usual negative predictions that the 'Settlers" will veto it "on the ground."

Maybe, just maybe, peace is at hand.

[dameocrat]

6. He still intends on annexing the much bigger problems

on the West Bank. Has this changed?

[420inTN]

2. Here's Reuters Story:

53 minutes ago

By Matt Spetalnick

JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Prime Minister Ariel Sharon (news - web sites)'s cabinet approved his Gaza withdrawal plan on Sunday, the first time an Israeli government has decided to dismantle settlements on land Palestinians want for a state.

But another cabinet vote, the endorsement of a barrier route looping around Jewish settlement blocs in the West Bank, added to Palestinians' fears that Israel was cementing its grip on big swathes of occupied territory and imposing de facto borders.

The Gaza pullout has been touted as a possible springboard to peace talks after this month's truce deal, but Palestinians warned that extending the barrier further into West Bank territory would hurt efforts to revive negotiations.

Within hours of the cabinet's 17-5 vote on his Gaza plan, Sharon signed an order for evacuations to begin on July 20, giving settlers five months' notice to get out.

Reuters link

[DemFromMem]

3. Good news indeed

I think the Sharon-haters on this board are looking for something to pounce on, but the old man has denied them. His strongest praise today came not from the Likud, but from Shimon Peres, hardly the hawk.

In six months time when the July deadline passes, the situation on the ground is going to get messy asIsraeli soldiers take on extremist settlers. I'm glad it's Sharon in charge because he'll have the stomach to take on these folks.

[Djinn]

4. "sharon haters"???

as opposed to all those liberals who LIKE SHaron???? :eyes:

[DemFromMem]

5. don't stereotype

Not everyone on this board thinks Sharon is pure evil and one's view of US politics does not equate to one's view of a foreign political party. I would venture to guess that the average Likud voter is in favor of national health care and is probably pretty liberal on social issues. They are hawks on defense issues and a good American liberal may think that is okay.

I genuinely believe that a peace that Sharon delivers has a better chance of working precisely because he is a hawk. Your average Israeli is likely to trust that the deal he signs is not going to jeopardize their long term security. And a Sharon is going to have an easier time dealing with settlers who can't easily portray him as a dove caving in to terrorists. At the end of the day, would you rather have a dovish Israeli leader who can't convince his own people of the wisdom of his actions toward peace or a hawk who may not give as much, but gets you to the finish line?

[dameocrat]

7. Likud is a neoliberal party that is slashing the

Israeli equivolent of social security and attempting to destroy Unions, so I doubt that is true. It pretty much represents the same types that vote republican in America. The religiously conservative to reactionary types and the wealthy people who don't like taxes. Labor tends to be neoliberal as well in Israel. Barak supports Netenyahu's reforms. Aren't you stereotyping all Jews as being economic liberals? Shinui is also neoliberal.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ArticleNews.jhtml?itemNo=536724&contrassID=13&subContrassID=1&sbSubContrassID=0

[eyl]

14. That's not quite accurate

A lot of Likud's voters are what you might call the "disadvantaged" in the US; most of Likud's power is actually in the poorer strata of Israeli society. The religous types (other than what you might call the "moderate religous") usually don't vote Likud, since Israel's political setup gives them other alternatives (Mafdal, Aguda, Shas, and so on, depending). It even includes some Arab voters and activists. A very important thing to remember about Likud, which many outside observers don't is that it's perhaps the largest Israeli party in terms of the section of the political spectrum it occupies. Thus, you have people with Netanyahu's economic policy, but also people with a more liberal bent; though for several reasons, Netanyahu is currently in the ascendent. KEep in mind also that in Israel, the first question when classifying a party or person as "left" or "right" is their approach to the conflict; other issues are secondary. So you can have right-wingers with a socialist economic outlook, for instance.

[Djinn]

8. I rather not have someone

who's own country once decided was unfit for public office because of his role in a war crime that killed civilians.

you can paint Sharon as a liberal if you want but this liberal doesn't think Sharon is "okay"

[Jack Rabbit]

9. I can appreciate the depth of your hatred of General Sharon, Ms. Djinn

I agree with you that either he knew or should have known what Major Haddid and his philangists were going to do when he allowed them into the Sabra and Shatila camp. I agree with you that he has, throughout his career as a soldier and political leader, shown little or no respect for Arab life. I agree with you that he is the architect of the settlement program that is the cornerstone of the concept of Greater Israel, a concept premised on the idea that Jews simply have more rights than Arabs anywhere west of the Jordan.

I don't admire the man, what he has done or for what he stands. He has a great deal of blood on his hands.

But so Arafat had blood on his hands. And neither was Arafat a savory character. During the Oslo process, we were willing to forgive him that to allow him a chance to redeem that blood. He came within a whisker of success. Don't we owe Sharon the same courtesy?

It looks to me that Sharon, after all these years, has come to realize that his dream of Greater Israel is unobtainable. He cannot swallow the Palestinian territories without making Jews a minority in the Jewish State, a situation that can only be maintained with an apartheid-like system. Fortunately, he loves Israel enough not to want to soil it with that, even if it took him this long to realize that it is the only place where the path he forged for Israel could possibly lead.

If it's Sharon who can make the deal, that's fine with me. It would have been fine with me if Arafat did. I don't care if the peace agreement is brokered by the Devil himself. The important thing is that this conflict end and that the people of these two nations learn what it is like to have day-to-day lives.

[Djinn]

10. you're clearly less cynical about the "peace" than me

if it works then great, Sharon wont be "forgiven" in my eyes but I'll give credit where it's due, Arafat to my mind wasn't "forgiven" either by the way, but I see this as a bit more of the same, when the "peace fence" is built on Israeli land, the settlers are told to either live in Israel or not to expect Israeli taxes to support/protect them, and refugees are either allowed to return or are compensated for their loss, then I'll beleive it.

Just to save time responding to someone claiming I'm one sided I don't think the pre-conditions are there for Israel to make a lasting peace either, until the fundie bampots (both their own and the wahhabists next door) can be reigned in I don't see Israel being able to deal properly with Palestine.

I don't know, hope it works, I'm just not holding my breath

And on Sharon, regardless of his crimes he's also pretty worthy of disdain in terms of politics and economics, he may look semi-liberal on certain issues compared to US politicans but he looks like any other right wing git from where I'm sitting. I mean Pinochet, Thatcher and Reagan had some good points to but you never see anyone admiring them here?

[Jack Rabbit]

11. It's not so much a question of being cynical or not

As for a peace deal, we'll see what is in the details. I would expect it to provide cash compensation to and no right of return for Palestinians who lost property in 1948 and evacuation of settlements not incorporated into Israel after borders are settled in accordance with UN Resolution 242.

I'm in California and you're in Australia. Neither of us have anything better to do from our respective vantage points than hope this works and watch how it plays out.

Not too long ago, a photograph was flashed around the world of Sharon shaking hands with Abbas. I thought I would never see Sharon shake hands with a Palestinian leader. And Abbas has gotten assurances from militant leaders that they will give him time to work things out.

These are hopeful signs. They can turn around and go sour very quickly. There are people on both sides of the divide -- each nation's respective fundie bampots -- hoping they do. But this is still the best hope we've had in a long, long time.

[Englander]

12. Dude,no-one on this board..

thinks Jabba is "pure evil". If they do,a tombstone
usually awaits them.

I think that he is a corrupt rw politician who was disquailfied
from holding public office. And as such,why would any liberal or
progressive think he is worthy of support,or not judge him
on his actions?

[Colorado Blue]

13. In this case - if Sharon can get it done - he deserves our

support and our good wishes.

[Englander]

15. And what does "it"..

signify?

A cessation of hostilities,serious negotiations and
the ending of the Occupation are worthy of support.

[Colorado Blue]

16. That is what I meant by "it".