Israel blames Syria for Tel Aviv attack

[IndianaGreen]

Here are the new marching orders: Invade Syria! (/sarcasm)

Israel blames Syria for Tel Aviv attack

Plans to hand West Bank security to Palestinians halted

The Associated Press
Updated: 3:47 p.m. ET Feb. 26, 2005

JERUSALEM - Israeli Defense Minister Shaul Mofaz blamed Syria on Saturday for a suicide bombing that killed four Israelis in Tel Aviv, and Israel’s Army Radio reported that he also froze plans to hand over security responsibilities in the West Bank to the Palestinians.

Israeli security officials also said they may resume assassinations of the leaders of the militant Islamic Jihad group, which claimed responsibility Saturday for the bombing. The officials said on condition of anonymity that the recent cease-fire forged with the Palestinians no longer applies to Islamic Jihad, which has links to Syria.

A resumption of Israel’s targeted killings of wanted militants, which Israel recently agreed to halt, would likely mean the end of the cease-fire declared by the Israeli and Palestinian leaders at a Feb. 8 summit in Egypt.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/7011091/

[mitchtv]

1. they have WMDs also

Preemptive strike time; They kill their own people!

[notadmblnd]

2. How convenient

Is it just me or has a definite pattern developed? Every time Israel is about to make a major concession to the Palestinians, there's a suicide attack and the Israelis are given an excuse to back out of their promise. It happens every time folks.

[pretzel4gore]

3. plus blame syria!

at least canada's gettting a break....

[Theres-a]

7. I don't think it's just you.

I wonder how deep the rabbit hole goes.

[Colorado Blue]

9. Yes. Read the manifestos of the Arab extremists. They

want no peace with Israel because they want no Israel. This is no secret except, I think, to certain posters on DU.

Your implication that somehow Israel is behind this is a calumny. The Palestinians do not believe this either.

The last thing in the world the radical Islamist groups want is peace and democracy in Israel/Palestine. They would be out of business.

Take a look at what is going on Iraq. The insurgency makes no sense at this point; it's merely murder.

[newyorican]

10. Take a look at Iraq...

OK.

It's occupied by a foreign army.

Take a look at the territories that would be/could be Palestine.

It's occupied by a foreign army.

BTW, "murder" is a legal term. Killing or slaughter is the term you are attempting to describe.

[Colorado Blue]

11. Occupation or no occupation - people should not be killing

each other.

Maybe I am nuts or something but I believe that killing is only begetting more killing and will NEVER end the sense of oppression, of having been wronged.

Nor will it turn back the clock.

Israel is attempting to disengage. As long as essential security remains an issue it will be difficult. That's why it is SO important to get the terrorism under control. The meeting in Saudi Arabia, apart from the usual B.S. from certain clerics, took a very clear stance, condemning terrorism in all instances.

As far as Iraq is concerned I can't help but feel the whole thing was a colossal blunder - like everything else Bushco attempts. In some scenarios maybe it makes sense to their ugly minds to have a civil war going on but I really don't think this is what they wanted to have happen. If nothing else it's bad for business. Beyond that, it makes them look like idiots.

Leaving all that aside I think they are sincere in wanting to establish democratic, hopefully secular governments in the M.E. The Buchanan POV, as expressed on the tube a couple of weeks ago, is that this is unnecessary since dictators make good, stable business partners. This has been the way global corporations have been doing business for ages and it has argued against democratic movements as you know. However, the power structures in the ME that keep people disenfranchised and unempowered also lead to terrorism and religious extremism - bad for the stability of this region which is so critical for the global economy.

I'm curious what you think and if you think this is even possible.

[Darranar]

13. Why do you think they are sincere about spreading democracy?

The interests of multinational oil corporations would be most threatened by exactly that - democratic governments intent on using the oil wealth to actually help the people of the Arab world, instead of just to make rich people richer.

[Colorado Blue]

14. I think they are sincere because the theocratic and/or

dictatorial regimes are proving to be producers of unrest. At the extremes, this produces terror. At a minimum, hostility toward the West is nurtured. This closes the region to Western markets, for one thing, and for another makes it uncomfortable for the oil companies to continue providing that which we need to run our societies here in the industrialized world.

This is due, I believe, to the fact that people don't have economic opportunity or the opportunity to participate in the wider culture. Jobs are scarce in many nations, especially oil-poor nations, and people are poor and unhappy. Hence the term, "the Arab street" - whose opinion is frequently inflamed in anti-western sentiment. I believe Bushco would prefer to see people living in a society in which, like us, the people have a share in their government and their economy.

Education becomes a factor as well. The madrassahs that produced the Taliban are an extreme example but even in sophisticated Iran one wonders how broadly based the educational system really is - the theocracy would by nature want to be preventing people from learning too much about Western culture.

This brings up another problem, one unforeseen in the Bush agenda to democratize Iraq: that of religion. In Iraq, people chose a Shi'a government. It remains to be seen how deeply this will affect Iraqi society

It may seem ironic to some but according to sources I've encountered, the Palestinian people are actually the best educated of all in the Muslim Middle East. On the other hand Islamization is growing there too, women in the university choosing to veil and segregation between the sexes is strictly observed. This is according to a text a few years old; if I'm incorrect I'd appreciate being updated. One has to realize that Palestinian women did not veil in the past and even wore shorts, so this is a change. One has to believe that it is motivated at least partially by politics, as a sign of the rejection of Western values.

This subject - that of people perhaps electing orthodox theocratic governments which would practice sharia (religious) law - came up today on CNN. It's the wild card in the pack, and the one that could screw up plans to democratize the M.E.

For myself, I don't believe democracy should belong on to Americans. But the risk of people freely choosing governments hostile to American interests, or to Western culture itself, is a definite possibility.

There's another factor about Bush: I think he's a True Believer, a real idealist, and that's another reason he personally is sincere about fomenting democracy. Whether that is good or bad - we'll see. Thus far Iraq has been both a catastrophe and a sign of hope; people in Lebanon are demanding the withdrawal of Syrian troops; Mubarak has agreed to put actual opposition on the ballot in Egypt. Palestinians just had a successful election. Who knows - maybe this will work. It could be the dawn of a new day in the Middle East.

[Darranar]

15. Yes, people are unhappy...

which is another reason the people in power do not want democracy - it would mean change, and change would probably mean a great reduction of US power and influence in the region.

What may happen - what in fact is happening, judging by Mubarak's nod towards "election reform" - is that the US client governments may make their autocratic tendencies less obvious, making a few concessions to satisfy popular opinion but too few to actually change things any great degree. Something along this model, with democratic forms but actual power in the hands of a US-backed group of puppets, is being fostered in Iraq at the moment.

[Colorado Blue]

18. I would like to think at least it's SOMETHING - but like you

am somewhat skeptical that The Powers That Be will give up so easily. I agree with you, Iraq's election isn't 100% pure and the lack of Sunni participation is potentially devastating to any dreams of a peaceful Iraq.

Do you think it is impossible that the people of the M.E., of their own will, would look toward the West and Western philosophy? Personally I am doubtful that they would in the current climate; but it seems we do have much to offer, not just material things, but science, art, philosophy, medicine as well - perhaps there can be a true exchange?

[chlamor]

4. Here is how you do it

Put blame on Syria and Syria has to leave southern Lebanon thus allowing Israel to invade and re-occupy southern Lebanon where the water is. The Syrian government will fall from increasing pressure and there will be an “Orange” revolution in Lebanon like there was recently in Ukraine, funded and organized by the US government, deploying US consultancies, pollsters, diplomats etc. Postmodern coup d’etat in Lebanon and everyone sleeps happily ever after.

This paraphrases and combines various analysis I've read and seemed to fit the larger pattern. The water issue is of paramount import and urgently needed in the region as aquifers are drying up.

[Colorado Blue]

8. For heaven's sake. The Israelis are working on new

desalinization science which, if I understand it correctly, could provide lots of water for a long time to come. If this works out it could help the entire Middle East. Water is actually much more precious than oil.

Why not give peace and science a chance to work their transforming magic? If you know ANYTHING about Israel you know that they've worked wonders with irrigation and modern methods of farming.

I'm quite positive that is more in line with the reality of thinking among Israelis AND enlightened Arabian people.

Your thinking is both nasty and way too small. A few acres of aquifer in Lebanon isn't going to help the water situation much. And Syria needs to leave Lebanon in any case. The Lebanese are determined that this should be so.

Secondly - how come every time a bunch of Israelis get killed it's their own damn fault? Or the result of some convoluted plan, concocted by a Jew?

I'm really getting sick of this. It's classic blame the victim.

Moreover it's begging the question: how can we reach the Arab world? Similar suicidal behavior is going on Iraq, where there ARE no convenient Jews. Iraqis are blowing up each other and they are destroying their own vital resources and damaging their own environment. In the '80's, the war with Iran killed approximately 1,000,000 people. Children as young as nine years of age were sent into the lines to die.

Regardless of what we think of Bushco and his dreadful war, this behavior is brutal, wasteful and in my opinion it's futile. All that can grow from it is pain and destruction.

[dameocrat]

19. Get out of the West Bank and stop stealing their land

. I am betting that would make it alot easier. As for water. They have 90% of the water rights to any new Palestinian state. Well water is still far cheaper and will be for the foreseeable futre. The also looking to take Southern Lebanon so they can plant more settlers where they don't belong. They are building a desalianation plant on there side of the border and forcing the Palestinians to buy that water, and ofcoarse Palestinians can't use the much cheaper well water under their own feet. I do think the Israeli government is arrogant as hell! I admit it. I am betting unntil this arrogance stops the Arabs will never be friendly to the West or Israel.

[eyl]

20. Look at a map

"The also looking to take Southern Lebanon so they can plant more settlers where they don't belong."

So why didn't Israel plant any settlements there when it controlled South Lebanon?

"They are building a desalination plant on there side of the border and forcing the Palestinians to buy that water, and ofcoarse Palestinians can't use the much cheaper well water under their own feet."

They do use that well water, actually. Do you have any cite for this dastardly plan to force Palestinians to buy water from this desalinization plant near the Lebanese border (kind of far, no)? Note that AFAIK there aren't any operational desalinization plants in Israel at the moment, and I think the ones under construction are much farther to the south. Also note that Israel is still giving some Lebanese villages water.

[dameocrat]

21. They never controlled it thanks to Hezbollah

I never said they were building the plant near the border with Lebanon. I said they were building it on the Israeli side of the border rather than the West Bank, and forcing poor ass Palestinians to pay for it while they retain access to the ground water on the West Bank even if there is a new STate there.

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn5037

[Nadav]

22. Water distribution

This is an aspect of the two areas (I/P) that has been rather cooperative from the beginning and remains so. "Water rights" is not synonymous with consumption. Distribution is the only measure that is relevant.

[Coastie for Truth]

12. Have you ever heard of desalination, reverse osmosis, DuPont NAFION

or my own original PhD dissertation???????

You posted:

"... thus allowing Israel to invade and re-occupy southern Lebanon where the water is. ...

This paraphrases and combines various analysis I've read and seemed to fit the larger pattern. The water issue is of paramount import and urgently needed in the region as aquifers are drying up."

Speaking as one whose early "life's work" (called dissertation research) was in ion exchange membranes (as in proton membranes for fuel cells, ion exchange membranes for kidney dialysis and osmosis and reverse osmosis and water desalination) -- I would have to agree that Israel is today the world's leader in this technology.

While desalination is not cheap - it is a lot cheaper then killing people -- unless you postulate total moral depravity on the part of the Israelis.

[Colorado Blue]

17. Bravo.

[no_hypocrisy]

5. As per Bugs Bunny: Dogpile on the rabbit . . .

[Jack Rabbit]

6. Blame Game: Can't tell the players apart without a program

Let's see . . . Islamic Jihad takes credit, then denies responsibility, then takes credit. Make up your mind, guys.

The Al Asqa Martyrs Brigade takes credit and denies responsibility simultaneously. That's a bit schizy.

Israel blames Syria, who was blamed for the Hariri assassination earlier this month. The Syrian foreign minister denies it, but in Syria it's every man for himself. President Assad probably doesn't know what's going under his nose. His old man may have been a brutal autocrat, but at least he was in charge.

Hey, guys, are either IJ or AAMB Syrian? I thought they were Palestinian. So are those the Palestinians have arrested.

After making the arrests, the Palestinians blame Hezbollah. Hezbollah, usually too happy to take credit for something like this, denies it.

This is grotesque. If four people weren't dead, it would be funny.

[pelsar]

16. jack....

so far thats a pretty good analysis of the situation.....I"m sure if i looked a bit I could add a few more players....

as far as one of the previous posts of israel "reinvading" lebanon for the water..sheeesh, its seems another victim has been claimed of the "israel is evil syndrom and has evil plans for every move in the middle east".

as far as big business and democracies go and bush and company, I quite agree with colorado. Bush is a true believer and I believe the reality is that arab dictatorships have gotten "out of control" and that the realization is that stabilization is through democracy and freedom.

Furthermore once people get a taste of freedom, its pretty hard to control it....and it appears from Lebanon, to Egypt even a wee bit in saudi arabia the winds may finally be changing.