A Failed Israeli Society Collapses While Its Leaders Remain Silent

[vierundzwanzig]

The Zionist revolution has always rested on two pillars: a just path and an ethical leadership. Neither of these is operative any longer. The Israeli nation today rests on a scaffolding of corruption, and on foundations of oppression and injustice. As such, the end of the Zionist enterprise is already on our doorstep. There is a real chance that ours will be the last Zionist generation. There may yet be a Jewish state here, but it will be a different sort, strange and ugly.

There is time to change course, but not much. What is needed is a new vision of a just society and the political will to implement it. Nor is this merely an internal Israeli affair. Diaspora Jews for whom Israel is a central pillar of their identity must pay heed and speak out. If the pillar collapses, the upper floors will come crashing down.

The opposition does not exist, and the coalition, with Arik Sharon at its head, claims the right to remain silent. In a nation of chatterboxes, everyone has suddenly fallen dumb, because there's nothing left to say. We live in a thunderously failed reality. Yes, we have revived the Hebrew language, created a marvelous theater and a strong national currency. Our Jewish minds are as sharp as ever. We are traded on the Nasdaq. But is this why we created a state? The Jewish people did not survive for two millennia in order to pioneer new weaponry, computer security programs or anti-missile missiles. We were supposed to be a light unto the nations. In this we have failed.

http://www.forward.com/issues/2003/03.08.29/oped3.html

[DuctapeFatwa]

1. Well, to be fair, it wasn't established to be a society, but to guard oil

And as a guard dog, a weapons depot, and a defense industry revenue generator, it does an exemplary job.

[sabbat hunter]

13. bs

<"Well, to be fair, it wasn't established to be a society, but to guard oil"
Posted by DuctapeFatwa
"And as a guard dog, a weapons depot, and a defense industry revenue generator, it does an exemplary job." >

thats bull and you know it. Israel was established as a homeland for jews who escaped the holocaust in europe. whether it turned into something else down the line is open for debate, but at least be honest about why israel was established.

when it was established, the US imported very little oil, and did not sell to israel weapons. (the first israeli arms came from communist chechzovakia (sp))

peace
david
:hippie:

[DuctapeFatwa]

20. It is a pretty story, but like too many pretty stories

its beauty conceals a rather plain Jane mundanity.

Israel was established to protect oil FOR US and UK financial interests and to protect the US and UK FROM large numbers of Jewish refugees. If its usefulness as a weapons depot and the advantages to the defense industry of maintaining a level of instability in the region were lost on the Balfour authors, (unlikely) subsequent players did not fail to recognize these advantages.

We are talking about 1948, a time when racial apartheid was the law and anti-Jewish sentiment was the norm.

In fact anti-anything but WASP sentiment was the norm.

As late as 1960, there was serious debate on the question of whether JFK's religion would be a "problem" - and he was a Roman Catholic of Irish descent!

[The Magistrate]

21. That Is Simply Silly, Mr. Fatwa

In 1948, all the oil nations in the Near East, from Iraq and Persia to Libya and Saudi Arabia, were Western client states, in the hands of monarchs viewed as reliable puppets of England and the United States. No one expected this situation to change in any way. Relations between Israel and England were hostile in the extreme; indeed, the Soviet Union lent support to Israel in this period precisely because of this, considering it the possible thin end of a wedge against the system of colonial clients ruling the region, as the Israelis were by and large leftists, and the Arabs had proved impervious to Communist ideas thus far.

Israel's weaponry at this time was supplied mostly through France and Czechoslavakia: very little of it was new, most being various World War Two surplus. As late as the mid-fifties, Israel's Air Force flew Mustangs, and even into the sixties a sizeable proportion of its armor fighting vehicles were re-worked Sherman tanks. Not until after the '67 war did Israel become much of a customer for U.S. weaponry. By far the greatest quantities of weapons supplied to the region were provided by the Soviet Union, equipping the sizeable armies of Egypt and Syria.

It is true that by the time of Soviet political penetration to the region, Israel became of use as a sort of de facto ally: its relations with the Soviets, as the chief backer of the Arab powers, were hostile enough that Israel could be relied on to check the importation of Soviet formations into the Near East, and as a fellow combatant in case of U.S. resistance to a Soviet invasion of the area.

[Kbowe]

29. Why they failed

They have failed because their motives were not pure...they lied


and they support liars like Sharon. God is not pleased with the nation he established to honor Him and to represent him on earth and to worship Him and to be the example of justice, love, and peace. They (Israel) have once again turned from their purpose and gone whoring after "other Gods." The land has become their God, and they have coveted other people's possessions, used the name of their God in vain (vanity), bore false witness against their neighbors, lied, cheated, stolen, and killed for their insatiable appetite for the land and riches that God chose not to give them (Saudia Arabia, Iraq, Iran and all the oil and natural resources of those lands). They have turned their backs on God (and the US has supported them in this) and become Gods unto themselves and God is not pleased. And the US has followed blindly, being led by greed, racism, intolerance, and un-godliness. OK Christians, let's go to the Bible!

[stopthegop]

2. yep...Isreali society is collapsing...

Palestinian parents rejoice when their children commit suicide, taking 1-20 others with them...but Isreali society is in trouble...right...

[jos]

3. Courageous column

Considering it comes from an elected member of the Knesset.

I find his diagnosis to be right on. Although I may disagree as to the cure.

[Darranar]

4. What cure do you support?

n/t

[jos]

5. The single state solution

With a decentralized central government, and a lot of autonomy for the various regions.

[Darranar]

10. Didn't he advocate something similar to that?

Giving the Palestinians full rights to vote?

[StandWatie]

12. he used it as a warning..

In 1989 the Israeli Supreme Court decided that anyone campaigning for full equality of Jews and Arabs in Israel could be banned so if he meant any of that he had better be able to explain it away.

[Gimel]

31. Opposition leader

As an aspiring leader to high office, Avraham Burg in denouncing current economic and social policy. He goes a little far in proclaiming the "demise of Israel".

Israelis are not new to economic hardship. They know how to reach out and support one another. A renewed Intifada will only increase the sense of solidarity and togetherness.

Burg uses no-holds-barred language, and although in general I approve of his candidacy, his doomsday rhetoric is mostly for effect. In looking to the future, he notes the negative trends, and therefore has a gloomy outlook. As a religious Jew (although not Heradi ultra-orthodox), he warns that the sins of society may bring it down. No doubt. The words of Torah are correct. The emphasis on materialism and the inability of the present administration to make a clear decision on the settlements or granting a Palestinian state, are some of the stumbling blocks. A strong leadership in the Labor camp is needed. Burg is looking for that post, showing clarity of vision and a program for solutions.

[GabysPoppy]

6. To be intellectually honest you should have posted this from the Forward

at the same time. Then you can have an honest discussion of the issue if that was your intention.

Israel's Choice

Those of us who watch the Middle East anxiously from afar may suppose that the latest explosion of violence is just another round in a never-ending cycle of rage and slaughter. Israelis and Arabs have been killing each other for generations, and we assume they will carry on killing for generations to come, until one side or the other becomes — depending on your point of view — exhausted, or more aware of the other's humanity, or more civilized. In the meantime, we tell ourselves, Israelis will stand united, determined to survive in a world that offers no solutions. Life in the Middle East goes on, harsh and unchanging as the desert. So it appears from afar.

snip

The reasons for the urgency are twofold. One is demographic: the fact that within 10 years from now, 20 at most, the areas now under Israeli sovereignty or control, between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean, will have an Arab majority. At that point, if Israel has not withdrawn from the territories it captured in 1967, it will have to choose whether to grant the Palestinians in the territories the vote and become a binational state, or to continue its military rule and allow itself to become an apartheid state. Either of those options will, as Burg writes, spell the end of Zionism.

The second reason for the sense of urgency is the growing violence of the conflict. Three years of horrific Palestinian terrorism have convinced most Israelis that they have no partner for peace on the other side. Despairing of a negotiated end to the conflict, Israelis have looked to Prime Minister Sharon to end the terror by military means. But three years of iron-fisted military measures have not made Israelis more secure. On the contrary, military measures have only fueled the rage that produces the terrorism. The result is more bombings, prompting more crackdowns, leading to more rage, more murder and so on.


snip

Readers may be startled by the vehemence of Avraham Burg's cri de coeur on Page 1 and may wonder at the Forward's decision to publish it. But Burg is no extremist. His anger and frustration over the impasse and drift are shared by a vast and growing number of Israelis. Israel's friends in this country may not choose to join them, but they need to hear them.

http://www.forward.com/index.html

[jos]

7. Why?

Where does it say that in order to be "intellectually honest," you have to post a companion piece?

[StandWatie]

9. nowhere

it's not even a rebuttal so I don't understand it, it's just typical nauseating pandering to keep the ever vigilant anti-anti-semitism crusaders from drowning Forward in complaints that they published something from this anti-semitic MK :eyes:

[tinnypriv]

8. Next time you post something negative about the PA, post about Arik

Wouldn't want you to be "intellectually dishonest".

Plu-lease. Do you take yourself seriously?

[mmm]

11. Zionism has served the Jewish cause horribly

because it totally fails to embrace the Jewish charter
of giving and service in the name of God.
Zionism cannot last and the sooner it is allowed to fail
the better it will be for all concerned.

[Muddleoftheroad]

14. The death of Israel

The death of Zionism means the death of Israel and, likely the death of millions more Jews. Interesting that you support it.

[StandWatie]

15. that's what everyone said about South Africa

That's what people said about the end of slavery. I don't believe "millions" of anybody will die when Israel fades out of the picture like the Crusade states did before it.

[jos]

17. Death of millions of Jews?

How do you figure that?

If anything it will make Jews more secure, in Israel/Palestine and around the world.

[Cassandra]

30. Cause and charter?

That's an odd way to speak of a religion. The Jewish "cause" could be more properly called a religion (Judaism), or a set of beliefs with an addition of a desire for a state where Jews can be safe (Zionism). The Jewish "charter" could more properly be called laws (God's laws, if you're so inclined). If you think Zionism cannot last, where should the Israeli Jews go? Given that some 50% have been born there, would you argue for their right to stay in the land of their birth?

[damnraddem]

16. It was a failed effort from the start.

It was seen by conservative Jews as sacrilege -- pushing God to re-establish Israel. Early on, it rested on buying land out from those who had farmed it for centuries, from absentee Ottoman landowners. To even its most idealistic founders, it was about pushing people off of land and taking it over. It expanded by provoking its neighbors into wars they were sure to lose.

But the fact is that it was built, and there are now millions of Israelis. One cannot simply go back. True, Isrealis could, and very well may prove to, be willing to continue to be just another expansionist oppressor nation -- to ape the Nazis, in effect. Or enough Israelis could get rid of Sharon, dump Labor's policies as well as those of the right, and get serious about trying to negotiate a settlement that would allow two people to live side by side. I'm not optimistic about the latter, but it COULD be done.

[jos]

18. Zionism

was an understandable cry for help, and a lifeline for late 19th century European Jews. The mistake they made was insisting on a separate "state," rather than asking that they be permitted unfettered emmigration to Palestine. It is understandable that Jews would want to leave late 19th century Europe. But there were other alternatives, including emmigrating to the U.S., other than establishing a state based on religion.

[The Magistrate]

19. Israel Is Going Nowhere

Jeremiads like this are a dime a dozen, in all lands and all times.

The state and the people will endure.

[seventhson]

22. Jeremiad

I like and respect Burg.

But is a Jeremiad for the prophet Jeremiah?

I like the word. Little help

I'll google: but thanks for making me aware of a new word

[The Magistrate]

23. It Is, Sir

[seventhson]

24. Jeremiad defined. Great word.

jeremiad
Pronunciation: `jeru'mIad


Matching Terms: Jeremiah, Jeremiah, Book of


WordNet Dictionary

Definition: a long and mournful complaint; "a jeremiad against any form of government"

See Also: complaint




Webster's 1913 Dictionary

Definition: \Jer`e*mi"ad\, Jeremiade \Jer`e*mi"ade\, n. Jeremiah, the prophet: cf. F. j<'e>r<'e>miade.]
A tale of sorrow, disappointment, or complaint; a doleful
story; a dolorous tirade; -- generally used satirically.

He has prolonged his complaint into an endless
jeremiad. --Lamb.

[seventhson]

25. I agree -- But I have doubts

Israel is, as Burg asserts, at a critical crossroads.

As I said in my post on another "antisionism" thread that veered off about the Mel Gibson movie --- Israel's young people will abandon it if it is not a safe place for them/

Yes there will be governments and guns and rabbis and the ultraorthodox and continued bombings and hate (if the conflict is not brought to a peaceful conclusion) -- TYHAT Israel will endure --- AND she will suffer.

Aliyah (return) will diminish. A new exodus will begin. The grandchildren of Holocaust survivors - many many of the ones I metr when I went to Israel several years ago -- are NOT willing to live in a state of perpetual war.

When they leave the heart and soul the Jewish homeland will be scarred and even, possibly, dead to a large degree (IMHO).

They will go to Europe and America and even Latin America.

I spoke with one fellow who preferred to return to the war in his home of Kosovo than remain in the conflict in Israel.


Many Israelis are Americans. Many of them are ultraorthodox and many of them will remain due to their faith. But very few common people can really endure the misery and fear of daily and weekly suiciude bombings and constant insecurity and violence.

It dehumanizes both sides if it stays totally militarized in perpetual war.

So I agree with Burg (whom I have had communications with via email).

While there will be a shellshocked shell of a state which will endure. The heart and soul of the promised land may well be lost if Sharon/Bush/Likud and the right continues its path which is as sure as a Palestinian "homicide" bombers to be suicide for the Israeli people and their beloved turf which - I believ -- they MUST find a way to share with the Palestinians.

I know there is a way. But there is NO WAY with Sharon. He is a suicide bomber of his own people IMHO.

[Karmadillo]

26. Nothing wrong with a good jeremiad

I think Burg would agree with you that Israel isn't going anywhere, but he would like to see it more responsive to its better angels. Those of us living in the currently not so great United States should be able to empathize. It's not written in stone we have to live in a world that springs from the diseased minds of the likes of Bush and Sharon. We can do better.

[The Magistrate]

27. Granted, My Friend

It is as much a matter of taste as anything; mine runs towards calm and precision. Everyone, and every side, in this matter, can certainly do better. Indeed, it seems likely, based on reported polling data, that several citizens chosen at random from within the two contending polities could work out their differences and achieve a peaceable and mutually acceptable solution far more readily than the political leadership of either can manage to contemplate.

[Karmadillo]

28. Now what a terrible precedent that would set. Randomly chosen

citizens never seem to understand the need for the continuation of Forever Wars.

Glad to see you back. Hope things are going well.