Israel to release 76 shooters, 53 bombers, 41 fire bombers

[drdon326]

Full title

Israel to release 76 shooters, 53 bombers, 41 fire bombers to "bolster moderates"




If you first don't succeed, try try again"

The following data is based on the list of Palestinian prisoners slated for
release now as a gesture to the PA.
http://list.ips.gov.il/list20050529.htm

These numbers cover only those serving time for actually shooting, planting
or throwing bombs - not attempting to shoot, plant or throw bombs. These
prisoners do not have "blood on their hands" because their bullets and bombs
missed - this time.

Average number of months served as of scheduled release:

Shooting: 76 prisoners - average term served: 63 months

Planting/throwing bomb(s): 53 prisoners - average term served: 69 months

Throwing fire bomb(s): 41 prisoners - average term served: 37 months

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=25391

[Coastie for Truth]

1. And verily

some will find some ulterior motive - perhaps these released prisoners have been "brainwashed" to become "Manchurian Candidates" or "Trojan Horses."

[drdon326]

2. Place your bets....

how many of those released will be successful in their murders the next time ?

[Gyre]

3. Well, one thing is a guarantee.

That for every Israeli one of these prisoners kills using their crude methods, 10 Palestinians will be killed by the IDF or settlers using high-technology stolen from the US.

[Coastie for Truth]

4. What did I predict ?

And verily -- some will find some ulterior motive - perhaps these released prisoners have been "brainwashed" to become "Manchurian Candidates" or "Trojan Horses."

and just 24 minutes later - the inference that ...........

[drdon326]

5. Other than Israel being wiped-off the face of the earth.........

nothing Israel does will EVER satisfy some posters.

[ashiebr]

8. Now that's not true........

....if Israel goes back to its borders, leaves the settlements, shares Jerusalem with the new Palestine, I rather think most people would be very satisfied indeed.

Easy really.

[drdon326]

Riiiiiiiiiight.

And there's a Jewish Deli in Saudi Arabia I would love to sell to you.

[Coastie for Truth]

9. ? You haven't been around the I/P Forum with the "Regulars" Very Long N/T

[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Behind the Aegis]

20. Really? You really believe this?

Maybe some would be satiated, but then there are those like Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris, who, on May 13, 2005 read this sermon on Palestinian Authority TV:

Allah has tormented us with "the people most hostile to the believers" – the Jews. "Thou shalt find that the people most hostile to the believers to be the Jews and the polytheists." Allah warned His beloved Prophet Muhammad about the Jews, who had killed their prophets, forged their Torah, and sowed corruption throughout their history.

With the establishment of the state of Israel, the entire Islamic nation was lost, because Israel is a cancer spreading through the body of the Islamic nation, and because the Jews are a virus resembling AIDS, from which the entire world suffers.

You will find that the Jews were behind all the civil strife in this world. The Jews are behind the suffering of the nations.

--snip--

We have ruled the world before, and by Allah, the day will come when we will rule the entire world again. The day will come when we will rule America. The day will come when we will rule Britain and the entire world – except for the Jews. The Jews will not enjoy a life of tranquility under our rule, because they are treacherous by nature, as they have been throughout history. The day will come when everything will be relieved of the Jews - even the stones and trees which were harmed by them. Listen to the Prophet Muhammad, who tells you about the evil end that awaits Jews. The stones and trees will want the Muslims to finish off every Jew. (emphasis mine).

Source

Of course, there are other 'gems' about the Jews bringing down Nixon (and Kennedy), a great (:eyes:) soap opera on Saudi TV about Jews being pigs and using Black Magic on Mohammad, and the list goes on... Don't believe me? Watch in their OWN words! Do all Arabs think and feel this way? NO! One could even say that some of these people are comparable to Pat Robertson, Fawell, et al. But, what i find most interesting, is that when these pieces are shown, they are "excused" as radicals. There are fanatics on BOTH sides...it is time some people admitted that and admitted that all the problems with the I/P situation don't lie completely with Israel!!!

[drdon326]

23. Oh just fucking lovely sermon.

Real man of peace.

[newyorican]

24. Didn't know he posted...

in this forum.

Learn something new everyday.

[drdon326]

27. Newyorican....

that "sermon" is THE most vile,anti-semitic,disgusting shit I think I have ever read.

[Name removed]

29. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[drdon326]

30. Ya know....youre just not worth getting tbstoned .

_|_

[newyorican]

31. No one is.

:dilemma:

[Behind the Aegis]

34. Didn't realize that was a requirement. n/t

[newyorican]

35. Not a requirement, just what was said...

But I am used to playing move the target...a favorite game of the not-so-bright Hasbara crowd.

drdon326 (1000+ posts) Wed Jun-01-05 09:37 PM
Response to Reply #4

5. Other than Israel being wiped-off the face of the earth.........

nothing Israel does will EVER satisfy some posters.

Provided as an "example" of the above:

Sheik Ibrahim Mudeiris, who, on May 13, 2005 read this sermon on Palestinian Authority TV

Hence my surprise that the sheik is a poster in this forum. If he's not then someone is lying through their teeth and I find that hard to believe.

[Behind the Aegis]

36. Try again.

My response was to:

ashiebr (196 posts) Wed Jun-01-05 09:10 PM
Response to Reply #5

8. Now that's not true........


....if Israel goes back to its borders, leaves the settlements, shares Jerusalem with the new Palestine, I rather think most people would be very satisfied indeed.

Easy really.


So, I was showing THAT poster, that there are quite a FEW people who would not be satisfied. DrDon said "posters," ashiebr said "people." I replied to him/her that not ALL PEOPLE would agree.

Talk about moving targets.

[Colorado Blue]

7. Yup. Right on the money. Sad, huh. nt

[Behind the Aegis]

18. And the list continues to grow.

Amazing! It is just a "ruse," it is "all political" (duh), not all of them were guilty (true, but now they are free)...and the list will continue. I am becoming more and more convinced that only the destruction of Israel will satisfy some.

[newyorican]

6. At first glance...

...I thought the Hebron thugs were being released.

Then I remembered...

They don't get locked up in significant number...not like "those people".

[pelsar]

11. PA reaction....

actually the prisoner release is being herald as an israeli PR trick by the PA. What makes the reaction so pathetic is that even a good will gesture is not accepted

and newyorican....how about you...can you simply say "good for israel" without any "buts" etc?

[newyorican]

12. Of course....

it's a good thing to release people that have been held with no good reason. However, it's probably not so good to empty the prison completely into the territories where the PA is already struggling to maintain order. Two-edged sword.

In part it reminds me of the Mariel boat lift, when Castro released political prisoners, along with the worst criminals from his jails into South Florida.

It's nothing new, every prisoner release has this potential aspect.

[pelsar]

13. come on.....

theres your "but".....

it's a good thing to release people that have been held with no good reason.

Its not what you think or what the PA thinks about why they were in prison...its the simply fact that israel as a country felt that these people threatened israelis in one way or another...and is now releasing them back to the PA. These are not the common criminals of Castros Cuba (another "but")....these the prisoners that are so important to the PA-one of their major issuses with us....

so just say it: Its a good thing...no ifs and or buts about...no hidden agendas other than simply good will. Are we so incapable of such a thing?

btw this is very "telling" in that even the simplist of gestures is not seen as such....

[Behind the Aegis]

14. Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.

That is the general statement when it involves Israel. It doesn't matter what good is done, every, and I mean EVERY, bad thing is thrown in, even if off-topic. The way some people would be happy is only if Israel gave ALL of her land up, but even then, I am sure there would be a few that would find fault with that, as well.

[idontwantaname]

16. interesting enough...

true not all these jailed folks are criminals...

for those who dont know... it is not uncommon for the IDF to arrest and detain men age 17+ for 6+months at a time... without formally charging them... much like guantanamo bay.

-----------

i think the only hidden agenda is to make this sort of thing more "special" than it really is.... like giving a homeless person a 4NIS loaf of bread and treating it like caviar.

no doubt for the families of all the prisoners this is a great thing... but as far as national gestures go there are "gestures" and theres "GESTURES!"

[Behind the Aegis]

21. The real hidden agenda

I think the real "hidden agenda" is that Sharon finally followed through on his promise, but it is still not good enough. It is still all a big "ploy." So, if Sharon had FAILED to release the prisoners, he would be an evil dictator, but since he DID release them, he is seen as "playing a game," instead of fulfilling his promise. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't!

[newyorican]

28. bummer...

go through all of this for some positive PR and the ploy doesn't work.

Maybe they should've waited a couple of days before announcing the expansion of the colonies and land theft in the WB.

[Behind the Aegis]

38. Bummer indeed

Perhaps, he should have just kept the criminals locked up and released those who hadn't been charged.

But, then again, none of them are really terrorists, are they? :sarcasm:

[bennywhale]

39. I'm surprised that you are naive enough to believe that any country

does anything at all for anything other than political reasons. There is logic behind the decision of every political manouvre worldwide. All states are self preservers and do whats in their interests. There is a logic behind this move as there is with all political moves.

[DemFromMem]

32. Huh?

First you say they have been held with no good reason. Then you talk about the dangers of releasing hundreds of criminals into the general public. It can't be both.

I also don't understand why the PA is whining about this being a PR trick. As I understand it, this is one of the roadmark benchmarks, not just a token gesture.

[newyorican]

33. Your confusion...

whether actual or contrived is yours to resolve.

I'll not waste time selling ice in winter.

[idontwantaname]

15. blah blah blah...

speaking of blood on their hands... there seems to be a double standard among some who look the other way when it is an israeli jew who commits acts of violence.

---------------------------

so DRDON what are the other 230 prisoners being held for?
unjust reasons perhaps?
also when are the sentencing terms up for these prisoners...? within one week? two weeks?

basically what im getting at is theyre scheduled to be released... some are getting released a week or two early but for the most part this "news" is nothing special.

what is sad is many palestinians know this... they are not fooled as easily as some here.

--------------------------

lastly... is israel honestly wants to make a gesture towards peace than she should stop construction of settlements within the west bank. that would be a REAL gesture.

[pelsar]

22. small steps....

the only way the conflict is going to end is by small/baby steps....and even releasing palestenains a couple weeks early is part of that....this conflict is hardly black and white...its one of grays and degrees......way too many stories that hide the fact that real people are involved on both sides. More than that, what goes on out here is not really planned its more like "action and reaction"...so small simply gestures can have small simple results, and thats a good thing, because small good things can lead to bigger and better, but it has to start somewhere. In our everyday lives, we appreciate even the smallest of gestures from our friends, coworkers etc-no difference here.

and though it may sound strange the palestenians also have a responsability here as well....they too must make gestures. No matter how small, no matter how simple, its part of the process that is required for the israeli national psyche.

you may not understand it, you may not want to accept it, but then thats a large part of being open minded and accepting other cultures, accepting what we dont understand. (and that can be very very difficult- but if leads toward a long lasting peace, then its worth it....

[newyorican]

25. NO!

You MUST PRAISE ISRAEL for this "gesture". There must be no buts! If you do not, you are the problem.

Case closed!

:sarcasm:

[pelsar]

37. newyorican.....

no one doesnt "HAVE" to praise israel...its just an interesting observation on my part that whatever israe does, you seem to find either a conspiracy (leaving Gaza is just a PR stunt) or find some flaw in it....

I just wonder why that is.......no more than that.

[newyorican]

26. Here is the real gesture...

in the form of a middle finger:

Israel to add to W Bank settlement

[idontwantaname]

17. READ ME!-----------from a friend.

You might have noticed that like most of the rest of the international community, I have recently neglected Gaza in my thoughts and words. During the 'Days of Repentance' Operation by the Israeli army (29/9 until 15/10) 133 Palestinians were killed. According to the Israeli human rights organization, B'Tselem, at least 50 of those killed were civilians, including 26 children. Perhaps you saw on the news the blood-soaked school uniform of 9 year old Samah Nassar, shot dead in her home. But apart from this, I am told there wasn't much Western media coverage of the invasion. Same old news, same faceless numbers.

I met a faceless number the other day. I was in a Hebron suburb visiting a middle-aged political activist in her home to discuss plans for cultural activities in the Old City of Hebron. I was quietly charmed to be in the company of a Palestinian feminist and smiled to myself when her son, Feras, came into the room to clear away the tea tray. He looked around thirty-something and appeared to be quite shy, unlike his confident socialite mother. A friend of mine, Ibrahim, who had accompanied me to the house recognized Feras from his days in prison during the First Intifada (1987-1991) and they began chatting. His mother then told me the story. When Feras was 14 years old, at the beginning of the First Intifada, he was shot on his way home from school. A few weeks later, in the middle of the night, the Israeli army broke into his home and took him from his bed. His mother ran screaming through the dark streets as the jeep took him away. She heard nothing of him for six months. He had been taken to a prison camp in the Negev desert, where he would spend the next four years. Thirteen years later, her voiced was still choked and her eyes battling tears as she recounted this common Palestinian narrative. I imagined my own brother when he was fourteen and visualized my mother demented by six months of not knowing where he was. Somehow the not knowing must feel worse.

Feras talked about his treatment there – the back-breaking positions he was forced to hold; the urine-soaked sacks put over his head. I immediately thought of Iraq, and was reminded of whom had trained the US Army in these tactics. But this part of the conversation lasted only a couple of minutes. Feras shared a few jokes with Ibrahim about people they met in prison and in general the conversation was not a sad one, more matter-of-fact. He showed us some artwork he had made with his clothes, and a pendant which he still wears, made from a piece of desert stone.

He wasn't yet an adolescent when they took him, his mother said to me in English. Feras doesn't speak English, so he wouldn't have known exactly what his mother was saying to me. He needed his mother, and his family, she said. And for four years he didn't see them. When he was released he spent a lot of time alone in his bedroom in the dark. He wasn't the same person. He had been without a family as he grew into a man. She encouraged him to take interest in something and bought him some birds. Now he lives across the road from her, with a family of his own, some horses and an aviary. Every night for months after he was released his mother sat on the terrace at the front of the house, waiting to protect her son if they came for him again.

There are currently over 7,000 Palestinian political prisoners in Israeli jails, around 1,000 of whom are held under administrative detention (imprisonment without charge or trial). Over 200 are boys under the age of 18. The torturing of 'terror suspects' is legal under Israeli law.

[centristo]

19. interesting quotes from the NYT article

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/06/02/international/middleeast/02cnd-mide.html

"If they want to help Abu Mazen," said the Palestinian minister for prisoners, Sufian Abu Zaydeh, using the more common name for Mr. Abbas, "and if they want to help the Palestinian Authority, they have to start releasing all the prisoners."

.....

"For as long as I was in jail, I had to maintain the nature of a revolutionary," said Mr. Manasra, 40, disclosing that he had been part of groups firing on Israeli soldiers during their search raids into Hebron in 2002.

.....

Mr. Sharon had said this week that the prisoner release was intended to support Mr. Abbas and other "moderate forces" in the Palestinian Authority, emphasizing that none of the Palestinian prisoners were known to have "blood on their hands."

.....

Only 398 of the 400 prisoners set for release actually were freed because two detainees apparently declined to leave jail. One wanted to finish his academic exams in prison, and the other wanted to serve his complete sentence because his brother was also imprisoned, according to an Israeli Army spokesman, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

.....

"Belonging to the Islamic bloc meant the application of my religion," Mr. Batran said. "Not killing. But Israel has been stealing my land. If the occupation continues, I will continue to belong."

.....