Think Again: No more taboos

[Colorado Blue]

A Jewish friend from the UK recently described the difference between American and British Jews: US Jews at least consider the possibility that they will one day need Israel as a place of refuge; British Jews do not even consider the possibility. And that despite the steepest rise in anti-Semitic incidents in Europe last year.

snip

Penelope Wyatt reported in the Spectator, a few years back, being told by a liberal peer, "Thank God, we can once again say what we want about the Jews." And Melanie Phillips relates how a liberal commentator recently tried to reassure her that there has been no upsurge in anti-Semitism. No, he explained helpfully, that's always been there. "We are just so relieved that we don't have to worry about the Jews anymore. Ever since the war we were told that because of their suffering, the Jews were above criticism."

snip

It is not just the left-wing British magazines that write of the Zionist cabal in Washington, or feature glaring covers with the Star of David piercing the union flag. Simon Jenkins, leading columnist at the conservative Times, can find no other possible explanation for ousting Saddam Hussein than that Washington and London are controlled by Jews whose "first commitment to the defense of Israel."

snip

Meanwhile, at the prestigious Royal Court Theatre, the beatification of Rachel Corrie, who was once photographed leading a group of frenzied Palestinian children burning the American flag, is complete. Only one reviewer of My Name is Rachel Corrie described the play accurately as a piece of crude agit-prop. None of the other reviewers even blanched at Corrie's description of the vast majority of Palestinians as "engaging in Gandhian non-violent resistance." A printed version of the play is being readied for distribution to British schoolchildren.


http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1117678729275&apage=2

[Name removed]

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[Name removed]

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[drdon326]

3. lol

bigotry, racism, apartheid, or Dark Deeds In The Past, including but not limited to: imperialism, expansionism, colonialism, Bolshevism, capitalism, money-lending, massacres, war crimes, exploitation of resources, sheep-poisoning, well-poisoning, land grabs and causing the war in Iraq.

GEE, thats a tough choice.



As for "Londonstan" , I was quoting a previous article.

Like I said , "you gotta love 'em".

[forgethell]

28. Cripes,

I seem to have missed the good stuff again.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

15. I would point out that

The fact that Melanie Phillips (probably the nearest thing the UK has to Anne Coulter) claims that a liberal recently said something antisemitic to her does not prove very much.

And your "Londonstan" jab is inaccurate - I'm afraid there is far more racism directed at Muslims than Jews in the UK.

[Behind the Aegis]

17. Opinions

You sated you were "afraid there is far more racism directed at Muslims than Jews in the UK." Do you have something to back that up or is that just an opinion/personal observation?

[Donald Ian Rankin]

20. Observation of newspapers.

Also, the fact that I am (ethnically) Jewish, and while I am frequently racially abused in the street, it is always by people who think I am a Muslim as a result of my beard.

My favourite was the youth walking past who shouted "Hey, look, it's Bin Laden!" while I was on my way back from celebrating Passover.

[Behind the Aegis]

23. Thanks for the reply.

My brother got the same thing. We had to beg him to shave his beard after 9-11. He couldn't even go to synagogue without freaking out people. Perhaps it is different in the UK (I couldn't find stats), but in the US, the number one group for religious attacks are Jews. After 9-11, incidents against Muslims rose sharply, but have since declined. The same is not true for Jews.

[Colorado Blue]

18. Respectfully, I do not think a person's politics enter into

repugnance at being the target of, or perceiving, antisemitic threats or insults. And, an attack on a right-winger is just as serious as an attack on a left winger, and we shouldn't dismiss it simply because we don't agree with the person's politics.

The thesis of the lead article in this thread, that once a country's leaders start yammering away it becomes hard to stop the trend, is well taken. History has shown us that government power, in aid of local fears and hatreds, has turned low-level bigotry into flaming holocausts. My own grandparents fled Russia when the Czar's own soldiers started reinforcing local bigotry - the situation at that point became a crises. Many members of my family, who didn't get out, were killed. In fact, I don't think anybody's left. Relatives have tried to find people but apart from those who got out - on their feet - with nothing but what they could carry - we can't find anybody.

Similar things have happened throughout history. Tiny, unarmed minorities, especially Jews, with our history of "killing Christ" or, as we've seen just this week in Jerusalem, being "impure", are especially vulnerable targets. And being blamed for the war in Iraq is a particularly vile and dangerous form of blood libel.

I have found many links documenting the dramatic and frightening increase of such attacks, in Europe and even the UK, where Jewish people are seriously becoming alarmed, which I can post if you wish to see them. I will post a few below.

This includes physical attacks - usually on children or old people, some of them life-threatening; the stoning of buses, damage to synagogues and cemataries, insults in the press - like those cartoons - and so forth.

Also, the dread Jewish Conspiracy Theory is back - in spades. Stereotyping and scapegoating are distressingly common.

One doesn't have to go very far to find an opinion that Sharon and his friends "drove" Washington to war in Iraq, "drooling" at the thought of "pillaging," - all in complete disregard of the fact that the US is run by Big Oil and its attendent industries, including defense, that contracts to rebuild Iraq were let before the first bombs even dropped - to companies like Haliburton; and that the Bush family is far, far closer to the House of Saud than to Israel - which in fact it has used, in the past, for purposes as strange as arming IRAN, while the US simultaneously armed IRAQ.

In other words, Israel has been used as a pawn in "The Great Game" - hardly the all-powerful force of mythology.

Of course, Bush involvement with Iraq dates back several decades. All of this is documented, of course - a famous example is Craig Unger's "House of Bush, House of Saud", which featured prominently in Farenheit 9/11.

So, I wish this were imaginary.

***

Alarm over surge in anti-Semitic attacks in Britain
February 12, 2005

Violent anti-Semitic attacks in Britain have reached "alarming" record levels, a new report says, prompting calls by Jewish leaders for more to be done to protect their people. The report coincided with an announcement by the German Government that it would try to stop neo-Nazis demonstrations planned for the weekend.

The Community Security Trust, which represents Britain's 290,000 Jews on security matters, said on Thursday that there had been 532 "anti-Semitic incidents" - defined as malicious acts toward Jews - last year, including a record 83 assaults.

The total, which included abuse and threats, was a rise of 42 per cent from the trust's 2003 figure, and well above the previous record high of 405 in 2000.

"This increase is extremely alarming. The transfer of tensions in the Middle East to the streets of Britain has resulted in an unprecedented level of anti-Semitic incidents," said Michael Whine, director of communications for the trust.

The trust said 100 incidents were reported last March alone. In the worst incident, a Jewish teenager had his jaw shattered in the city of Southampton on the English south coast.

snip

http://www.smh.com.au/news/World/Alarm-over-surge-in-antiSemitic-attacks-in-Britain/2005/02/11/1108061874865.html?oneclick=true

http://chareidi.shemayisrael.com/archives5765/yisro/alondon.htm

http://www.jewishtribune.ca/tribune/jt-050224-16.html

[Coastie for Truth]

4. A reading list for Simon Jenkins

I am not criticizing or mocking Mr. Jenkins. But as one who wasted a life in engineering and science, I feel it is my obligation and duty to humankind to increase scientific literacy around the world - especially on matters of environmental and political concern.

CB posted from
:

Simon Jenkins, leading columnist at the conservative Times, can find no other possible explanation for ousting Saddam Hussein than that Washington and London are controlled by Jews whose "first commitment to the defense of Israel."

Perchance Mr. Jenkins, being a political columnist, and not a finance, energy, or science columnist, has never heard of the Shell Oil geologist Dr. Marion King Hubbert and his theory of "Peak Oil".

A little reading might be in order for the erudite columnist:

What Peak Oil Is
1. Matthew Simmons - "Twilight in the Desert: The Coming Saudi Oil Shock and the World Economy"
2. Kenneth Deffeyes - "Beyond Oil : The View from Hubbert's Peak"
3. Kenneth Deffeyes - "Hubbert's Peak : The Impending World Oil Shortage"
4. David Goodstein - "Out of Gas: The End of the Age Of Oil"
Petroleum Geology
1. Anthony Evans - "An Introduction to Economic Geology and Its Environmental Impact"
What It Means Socially and "Small P Politically"
1. James Howard Kuntsler - "The Long Emergency: Surviving the End of the Oil Age, Climate Change, and Other Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-first Century"
How We Got Into This Mess Politically
1. Craig Unger - "House of Bush - House of Saud: : The Secret Relationship Between the World's Two Most Powerful Dynasties"
2. Gerald Posner - "Secrets of the Kingdom: The Inside Story of the Secret Saudi-U.S. Connection"
The Thoughts of Our Fellow DUers
1.
2.

Lots of working stiff engineers in the (alternative, renewable, and green) energy industry and lots of environmentally aware Americans can find no other possible explanation for ousting of Saddam Hussein than that Washington and Detroit and Houston are controlled by Big Oil and the Detroit Big Three whose first commitment is to the defense of the life style critiqued by Kunstler in "The Long Emergency: Surviving the End of the Oil Age, Climate Change, and Other Converging Catastrophes of the Twenty-first Century" and well illustrated in the DVD .

[pie]

5. Just because you don't like something does not make it false

Cannot read the entire piece as I am not a jppost member.
I will just state the obvious:
1. Sharon and buds drooled over the very thought of the illegal
invasion, pillage, and occupation of Iraq.
Sharon had a major influence on Bush's decision to push
this ill-fated criminal invasion ever forward at break neck speed
2. Rachel Corrie was a kind and caring person who died in pursuit of
a just and worthy cause

[Behind the Aegis]

12. I agree...

...with your title..."Just because you don't like something does not make it false." Just because one doesn't like that anti-Semitism is on the rise in the left, often disguised as anti-Israeli propaganda, doesn't make it false.

[Englander]

13. Also, dude, endlessly repeating the mantra..

does not make it true.

Or,just because you like the idea of something,does
not make it true.

I personally feel that there's no need to make-shit-up
about the illegality of the GOI,there's enough actual
evidence to go around.

[Behind the Aegis]

14. Which mantra is that?

The mantra of Israel is always at fault? What is the "GOI?"

[Englander]

21. That 'anti-Semitism is on the rise in the left'

Just because* the head-bangers @ the Jpost
& FrontPageMag say so,doesn't mean that their
opinion is correct.There is a difference between
legitimate critcism of the illegal actvities of
the Government of Israel,& 'Jew-hatred',and it is
up to the on-looker to try to distinguish between
the two.

GOI=Government of Israel.

*You've reminded me of the Jane's Addiction song,'Just
Because',which does,in fact,rock,& I'd recommend it
to anyone;

http://www.mp3.com/tracks/4792357/dl_streams.html

:)

[Behind the Aegis]

22. Mantras

Fortunately, it is not just JPost and FrontPageMag that are saying this, because obviously, nothing they ever print could be remotely true. (last part is :sarcasm:) I wholly agree with you that there is a difference between criticism of Israeli government and politicians, and anti-Semitism. I have stated multiple times on this board that very statement. I usually include the sentiment that it is no different than criticizing the US, doesn't make one un-American/unpatriotic. And while, I also agree it is up to the onlooker to distinguish between the two, I have found that many are unwilling to admit anti-Semitic rhetoric, especially if the source is from the left. So, just because you say it doesn't exist, doesn't make it any less true that anti-Semitism on the left is very real.

The only real 'mantra' I see here is that "Israel is always wrong and deserves whatever happens to her." That mantra is also very real and getting very old. NO country is ALWAYS right or wrong.

[Englander]

24. And that's what I said,wasn't it?

:eyes:


I said that the Jpost & fpm are rw headbangers; not that
nothing they ever say is true. The perspective they offer
is rw,pro-Israel & conservative,and any point of view they
offer is biased in that manner. Therefore,any suggestion from
that quarter that the criticism of the illegal activities
of the GOI by left wing politicians/activists is 'anti-semitic'
should be taken with a large lump of salt;the JPost & fpm wouldn't
know legitimate criticism if they tripped over it.

The Jpost's pov is really the same as the UK Daily & Sunday
Telegraph, the New York Sun,or the Washington Times,that is rw,
pro-Israel,pro-B*sh & conservative. And if that's the point of
view you want to read,or agree with,that's what you'll want to
read. I don't,since their idea of what is 'reality' does not
tally with mine,and their idea of what is newsworthy or constructive
criticism does not tally with mine. Their concept of what is a
'fact' or 'opinion' does not tally with mine.

[Coastie for Truth]

25. Are you equating being "pro-Israel" with being "Right Wing"?

The perspective they offer
is rw,pro-Israel & conservative

I repeat, are you equating being "pro-Israel" with being "Right Wing"?

Is this part of the anti-Bush thinking (that conflates Israel with Bush and PNAC and the Neo-Cons) that passes for serious political analysis in the post-Iraqi invasion world?

The "New" LW "group think."

When I was a kid we LWers used to read and think and analyze.

[Englander]

26. No. Are you? n/t

[Coastie for Truth]

27. No. -- But that seems to be the latest Leftie non-analysis.

[Englander]

6. The author of this, is a Jonathan Rosenblum.

Here's another article,an example of his perspective,
& ability,or inability,to analysis a situation,and then
produce a couple of hundred words that are all opinion &
bear little,or no relation to what has actually happened;

'A dash more modesty, please
by Jonathan Rosenblum
Hamodia
August 4, 2004

The most insufferable aspect of listening to denizens of the Left discuss the war in Iraq is their smug assumption of both moral and intellectual superiority. Both qualities were on full display at the recently concluded Democratic Party convention. Mark Steyn captured that assumption of moral superiority with his usual perspicacity. "There’s a narcissism about the tone of this convention which cuts to the heart of the Democratic Party’s problem: they don’t believe in anything except their monopoly of goodness."

Eighty-six per cent of the Democratic delegates, according to one survey, say they were opposed to the war in Iraq from the start. Their position at least has the virtue of clarity lacking in their party’s standard-bearer, who both voted for the war in Iraq – a vote about which he still has not made up his mind whether he was duped or not – and against funding the post-war occupation. To these delegates Deaniac tirades against ‘’the immoral war in Iraq" come trippingly to the tongue, though they were carefully scripted out of the convention itself.

Let us assume (counterfactually) that Saddam had no WMD capacity, and certainly no intention of ever using such weapons again, and that all he wanted to do was to be left alone to terrorize and torture his subjects and go on building pleasure palaces. There is a school of realist thought that argues in such a situation America has no business committing either men or resources. According to this school, the task of the American government is to improve the lot of American citizens and protect vital national interests, and any other goal is beyond the mandate of the government.

>snip

One thing for sure, the solution to Iran will not be found in the recent Council of Foreign Relations study authored by Zbigniew Brezinski, Jimmy Carter’s National Security Advisor, which recommends "constructive engagement" with the mullahs. Perhaps the CFR did not notice that this is precisely the course followed by the French, Germans and British for the last year, and all they have received in turn is nosethumbing from Iran, which carries on enriching uranium.

All in all, Kerry devoted only about 500 words to foreign policy and the war on terror. He assured the American people that he would fight the war in Iraq on the basis of the lessons he learned in Vietnam. What those lessons might be (other than that Kerry spent four months in Vietnam, in case anyone did not know) is unclear. A guerilla insurgency to conquer South Vietman does not self-evidently pose the same challenges as theologically driven Islamist fanaticism bent on first terrorizing then ruling the entire world.'

http://www.jewishmediaresources.com/article/737/

No wonder you left out the name of the author...!

[drdon326]

7. Most interesting part.....

In England as well, elite disgust with Jews and Israel is linked with perceived self-interest. Arab voters outnumber Jewish voters by over five to one, and the major parties have calculated the advantage of appeasing Arab opinion. Labor campaign posters showing the Conservative Party's Jewish leader Michael Howard posed as Fagin reflected a conscious decision to eschew old taboos against anti-Semitic stereotypes.


sad.very sad.

[Englander]

8. About the Labour campaign posters;

Here's a link to the pictures,since it's always helpful
to make any comments based on knowledge of the pictures:)
They're at the Liberal Democrats site,so bear in mind
that the Lib Dems are unlikely to say anything complimently about the incident;

http://www.stephentall.org.uk/articles/16.html

A news report about the campaign posters,with some comments;

'
>snip

Jewish Chronicle editor Ned Temko said there had been a mixed reaction to the first poster but e-mails from Jewish Chronicle readers showed deeper concern about the hypnotism image.

"Shylock and Fagin are inextricably linked to notions of centuries-old prejudice," he told BBC Radio 4's World At One.

"Whatever the idea is, I think it's a difficult exercise to use images like that and to argue that you can divorce them from their historical context or meaning."

Mr Temko said he blamed "cock-up not conspiracy", saying he did not detect inherent anti-Semitism in any of the parties' election campaigns.

The poster is among one of a series of ideas shown to Labour members, who have been asked to choose which one should be used ahead of the election.

Labour MP Louise Ellman said the hypnotism image was insensitive but urged people not to rush to call things anti-Semitic when they only challenged Tory economic policies. '

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4223091.stm

[drdon326]

9. Thank you very much for the link.

I am past disgusted.

[drdon326]

10. OMT.....

I seem to remember another European country where they began by using caricatures of jews as animals and sterotypes. And people there thought it was no big deal.

Must just be my imagination.

[Colorado Blue]

11. Me too. In fact I am now going to go throw up. nt

[Donald Ian Rankin]

16. It would be sad, if it was true.

But even the Tories admitted that there was nothing the least bit antisemitic about Labour's posters, and as soon as it was pointed out that they could be (mis)interpreted as being antisemitic they were withdrawn. The worst you can accuse them of is not thinking the posters through before putting them out.

British leaders are by and large still extremely sensitive to charges of antisemitism - more so that to charges of prejudice against other ethnic groups, especially Muslims.

[Colorado Blue]

19. From what I've read the Muslims are indeed objects of

prejudice, throughout Europe. I read some statistics about UK but forgot whether they were percentages or sheer numbers. I think percentages - they are indeed more likely to suffer from racist incidents.

On the other hand their population is considerably larger - there are only about 250,000 - less - Jews in Britain.

In any case it's terrible and wrong. Nobody should be victimized like this.

I suppose with the Muslims it's partly just unfamiliarity with their differentness but also probably the identification with the terrorism, which of course isn't limited to Muslims.

Unfortunately, just being different is enough to cause an attack. I used to catch it because of my nose:)

Maybe someday we'll evolve.