Israel seeks $2.2 billion from US for Gaza pullout

[Judi Lynn]

Israel seeks $2.2 billion from US for Gaza pullout
Mon Jul 11, 2005 5:10 AM ET

By Dan Williams
JERUSALEM (Reuters) - Israel will ask the United States for $2.2 billion, one of the largest aid requests by the Jewish state, to pay for its planned withdrawal from the occupied Gaza Strip, Israeli political sources said on Monday.

They said the special funding would be used to pay for the pullout from Gaza and a corner of the West Bank slated to begin in the middle of next month, and to relocate some 9,000 evacuated Jewish settlers to underpopulated areas of Israel.

A senior Israeli political source said the U.S. aid request was the biggest in recent years, "which is hardly surprising given the unprecedented scale of the Disengagement Plan."
(snip)

The Bush administration has agreed in principle to help fund the Gaza plan, Haaretz said. Washington wants the withdrawals to consolidate a five-month-old truce and spur talks on a U.S.-led "road map" for a Palestinian state alongside a secure Israel.
(snip/...)

http://today.reuters.com/news/newsArticle.aspx?type=topNews&storyID=2005-07-11T090934Z_01_N11412326_RTRIDST_0_NEWS-MIDEAST-DC.XML

[Name removed]

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[acmavm]

2. And of course the idiots who write the checks will give into this insanity

and hand the Israeli government more money.

[alfred e bush]

3. the real

welfare queen

[physioex]

26. Right......You won't here that in the mass media anywhere.

Stop giving money to Israel, and we take the first step towards stopping the violence in the rest of the world.

[Patty Diana]

4. Problem here is that the US Congress will give it to them_and rub

more salt into the Mideast wounds we've already inflicted__Sharon has publically declared that he owns the US Congress

[gatlingforme]

7. Sharon is right unfortunately. nt

[arwalden]

5. Sorry... We're Broke. We've Got A War To Pay For...

Terror. Freedom. Way of life. Nine-eleven. God bless America. Terror.

[sam sarrha]

6. what costs 2 B to get the F*ck out of where you should have never been !!!

:rant:

[converted_democrat]

61. You know Sam.........

The more of your posts I read, the more I like you!

[H5N1]

79. He nailed it, didn't he?

The US should not even consider funding this
boondoggle.

[Name removed]

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[Gyre]

9. How about a moderate interest loan Ariel?

You want freebies; we won't charge you userous interest rates. You don't like that? Give us back our nukes or we'll withdraw the 6th Fleet.

That's how business like this is normally conducted. But, "little Israel" has got both it's hands in the US taxpayer's pocket. No need to negotiate with them. They own us and they know it. Thanks to their steady infiltration of the US congress and the WH! :grr:

Gyre

[WhiteTara]

10. What a bunch of SOBs

this is nuts. They have decided to redirect the wall and it will bar 55,000 Palestians from getting to the holy city. Rat bastids!
:rant: :grr:

[BooScout]

11. I am sick and tired of .........

......paying for Israel's BS policies. It's time the US stopped giving them billions each year.

[Zorra]

12. Israel can start paying my taxes first. I can't afford health care. n/t

[physioex]

27. Exactly.....

The poor in this country get screwed while they get to live in their settlements with a monthly stipend.....

[Darwins Finch]

13. Hey Uncle Sam, buy me a house too!

Unless I carried a zero wrong, that's over $240,000 PER PERSON. So is the US buying each "settler" a new home or something?

And that's to pay for moving them off land they stole. Man, crime pays under this administration! And by the time they're done, it'll be the only thing that pays...

[Chicago Democrat]

14. We should give them 22 Billion ONLY IF they withdraw from

ALL OF PALESTINE!!!


Not another penny! Screw them! How about them paying for this STUPID IRAQ WAR, after all they're about 1/3 of the reason we are there in the first place!

[Behind the Aegis]

15. What is ALL of Palestine? n/t

[Chicago Democrat]

17. Um Start with 1967 borders and negotiate from there.

Give Israel 22 Billion
Give Palestine 11 Billion

Then NO MORE! Why should we have to give more money to them on a annual basis than say... Africa.



Partition Jerusalem.



Stop this madness!

[Behind the Aegis]

18. Interesting

Israel is responsible for building/rebuilding/destroying infrastructures in the OT. Thus, they are getting more money.

Partition Jerusalem? You are joking, right? Guess which side doesn't want to SHARE Jerusalem?

I agree..stop the madness...but also stop blaming Israel for all the ills of the world.

On edit: Go to the 1967 borders, then negoiate?! If Israel is at its 1967 borders, then negotion is over. It means they have withdrawn from all Occuppied Territories. Are you suggesting they give up land behind the 1967 borders?

[LivingInTheBubble]

19. If i build without planning permission.

the local authorities may well demolish my unapproved building AND charge me for the demolition cost.

Why should anyone pay for their building on land that isnt even theirs?

[Darwins Finch]

20. Zion and on...

If Israel is at its 1967 borders, then negotion is over. It means they have withdrawn from all Occuppied Territories. Are you suggesting they give up land behind the 1967 borders?

Um, why not? Why is the land that Israel seized after the declaration of borders somehow special?

And why shouldn't they give up the occupied territories? After all, they're occupied territories. As in, you know, occupied, because they don't belong to the Israelis, but are being, well, occupied. By the Israelis. Using force. Kinda thought that one was obvious.

Dunno, maybe I missed something about how being an Israeli gives one special dispensation to practice eminent domain.

And what the heck does this mean?

Israel is responsible for building/rebuilding/destroying infrastructures in the OT. Thus, they are getting more money.

So they deserve the big American bucks because they're putting those dollars to work in a vicious cycle that perpetuates suffering, injsutice, and global strife.

Hey, why not cut out the middleman and just give the money back to our own government? That kind of thing we don't need to outsource.

:eyes:

[Behind the Aegis]

21. What are you talking about?!

The OT came into being AFTER the 1967 war. Return them. But the official borders of Israel are recognized as the pre-1967 borders. Are you suggesting they give up their own land?!

As part of the withdrawal deal, Israel is responsible for "building/rebuilding/destroying infrastructures in the OT." This will cost money. So they are putting those "bucks" to work to compensate for the OT.

As for "global strife," I would say terrorism plays a big part, and Israel is not the only "reason."

[manic expression]

43. Talking about some justice, perhaps?

Israel seized the Gaza Strip and West Bank without any real justification. They need to return those lands without asking the US for any "compensation".

Israel should go back to its pre-1967 borders (although even the 1949 borders were established after al-Nakba, which was a disgusting act), at the very least. It needs to stop stealing land (via settlements and walls), and pay for the damage it inflicted.

They have not done anything to build or rebuild anything except for walls and settlements. They have destroyed countless homes and lives. They need to give compensation to the Palestinian people and leave.

Israel is the reason. Terrorism has been the backlash against it.

[Behind the Aegis]

48. uh-huh

"Israel seized the Gaza Strip and West Bank without any real justification." Invasion doesn't count as a reason? They need to return those lands when peace is brokered, at least according to the UN back then. However, even without a peace with the PA, Israel is still withdrawing.

"Israel should go back to its pre-1967 borders (although even the 1949 borders were established after al-Nakba, which was a disgusting act)," This could read as "Israel should not exist."

Israel is NOT the only reason.

[manic expression]

52. Yes, it is

Israel needs to return those lands to the people who live on them and quite oppressing them. They perpetuate the strife when the bulldoze homes, kill demonstrators and establish settlements. When Israel leaves, peace will have a chance; until then, it is ridiculous to claim that Israel is the victim.

It COULD read as that, to a delusional person. You are denying that cleansing almost 750,000 individuals off their own land is wrong? Saying that Israel should go back to its pre-1967 borders makes them not exist, even though this would be the LEAST they could do to make up for their undeniable crimes and injustices?

Isreal is the reason for these troubles, but I do think it can possibly be the reason for peace, if it only acts with some dignity and shows the slightest bit of respect. However, I'm not holding my breath.

[Behind the Aegis]

60. Twister

I did not deny anything. Your statement could suggest that even the pre-1967 borders are too good and only Palestine should exist as it did in 1948.

I agree Israel should withdraw from the OT. I say they should up and leave right now. Let the settlers choose to come to Israel or live under Palestinian rule. Let the Palestinians build their own infrastructures.

[manic expression]

63. Who's twisting?

My statement was that what Israel did in al Nakba was wrong, which is correct in about every way.

I think the Palestinians should get reparations, as well as the opportunity to return to their homelands, which may or may not be within Israel's borders. The settlements would serve only to continue the violence, and it would be best if they were evacuated and returned to Palestine.

[Behind the Aegis]

68. Not within 1967 borders

No, they should not get land in the 1967 borders. And this..."The settlements would serve only to continue the violence, and it would be best if they were evacuated and returned to Palestine." Typo or Freudian slip?

[manic expression]

74. Why not?

That would be allowing the theft to go without accountability. Palestinian families who had land taken from them unfairly should have the opportunity to return. That is about as fair as you will get.

Typo? No, Freudian slip? It's called asking for what's right, sorry if that seems unacceptable to you. The settlements should be returned to Palestine because they were built illegally on Palestinian land. If I build a house in your backyard, and then let my cousins and their family live there, is that fair? No, it is not, and so Palestinians should receive the land that was taken from them unjustly.

[Behind the Aegis]

76. Fine

Let them return to their land with Israeli borders and be called Israelis.

I misread "settlements" as "settlers." Give them the damn settlements. That's if they can make up their minds if they want them to remain or not.

[Darwins Finch]

86. Thank you, manic expression

You actually understand. It's nice when people see beyond the predefined lines the media draws for them.

[Colorado Blue]

97. No real justification? Have you read about the wars?

This whole thread is unbelievable.

[Colorado Blue]

37. You have missed the whole point of the occupation.

The land, according to UN 242, is held IN EXCHANGE FOR PEACE TREATIES.

The borders are essentially indefensible. I am providing a link to a map along with some articles about all the wars and some history of this region, sorely needed.

The occupation was NOT undertaken for fun.

It should be noted, none of this needed to happen but statehood for the Palestinian people was rejected in 1948 as well as subesequently. Similarly peace treaties have been rejected, as well as the recognition that the so-called "Green Line" - the pre-1967 borders - simply aren't secure. Abba Eban called this the "Auschwitz Line."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Israeli_conflict

You will also note the ENORMOUS territory controlled by the 22 Arab League states.

Please, they should simply make peace and leave this tiny nation in alone.

It should also be noted they have vast resources and enormous revenues from oil, augmented by donations from Europe and Iran.

I am appalled by the overall tone of this thread. The lack of knowledge and comprehension, not to mention compassion, is horrifying on a board supposedly dedicated to progressive politics.

[Chicago Democrat]

45. Cause they're "tiny" its ok for them to steal land?

I'm appalled by the support of Sharon government. Defend the WALL for example.

Say something specific.

[The Stranger]

71. Sharon is an unapologetic, proven RIGHT WING EXTREMIST,

and hard core reactionary, yet you mean to tell me he receives unquestioned support on this -- a PROGRESSIVE, LEFT WING SITE?

Get outta here.

[Colorado Blue]

102. Both your statements above are untrue.* Sharon is hardly

the demon you make him out to be. He is, I agree, more rightwing than left but he is hardly the hard right politician that Bush is and he has been shaped by the decades of warfare he's experienced. And, oh liberal, progressive one, he is an ELECTED OFFICIAL, something very rare in the Middle East, and a form of government which we should be wholeheartedly supporting.

If you are seeking the rationale behind Sharon, read about Arafat, read about the wars, the terrorism. Then you will understand a little about Sharon.

And, since Arafat is dead, Sharon has been leading the effort to withdraw from the OT. This is putting his personal life in great danger as the withdrawal is very unpopular - for religious, political and military reasons - in certain circles within Israel.

Something else you need to put in your pipe and smoke: Israel is NOT AN ABSTRACTION, it is 6 million human beings who are tired of war, tired of bombings, tired of threats. They need a secure home, that's ALL they are seeking. Secure borders, in a country that is only 6 miles wide at the waist and surrounded by enemies, is hardly an unreasonable request and in fact is supported by UN resolutions.

UN 242 recognized the purpose and motive of holding land in exchange for peace, and the death toll since Oslo has skyrocketed - hence the fence and hence the checkpoints. Until there is disarmament and until there are peace agreements the Israelis can't feel secure. Feeling constantly threatened is creating their aggression just as it has the US response to attack.

Indeed, if you think Sharon is bad can you imagine the US reaction had we been under constant attack on our borders for 60 years? I picture fleets of B-52's.

*In fact I find just about all of them offensive, ridiculously OTT. And I hardly think I'm alone. Such "rhetoric" hardens positions, it makes people angry, and it makes it impossible to have an intelligent conversation about these issues.

[Darwins Finch]

87. I have? Not exactly

But then, my first hand experience with both Israelis and Palestinians probably doesn't count as much as your third hand reports.

Shame on me for listening to the people actually involved, when all this time I could have been listening to experts.

:eyes:

First anti-feminists, now pro-Zionists. I guess in another week or so I'll be running into "liberal Dominionists" here as well.

[Name removed]

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[Behind the Aegis]

36. And thus starts the twisting.

So calling a bombing of a bus full of people terrorism is 'slander?'

I have NEVER refused to believe Israel was born in a civil war. And yes, your rage has blinded you to understanding that things are not as easy as sitting at a table and "making it all better."

I never said there was a thing wrong with negotiation (another of your twists), what I said is Israel should not have to negotiate its pre-1967 borders.

The Arab nations have been so peace loving...They are perfect. Oh yes. See, but you never said that...just like I didn't say the same about Israel. Instead, you took my statement and twisted it to your perception.

[Chicago Democrat]

38. See here it goes, pretty soon I'll be a terrorist.

You rufuse to negotiate. Ideas like that are the problem.

[Behind the Aegis]

40. Twist it anyway you like.

I never called or implied you were a terrorist. I will negotiate on EQUAL terms.

[Chicago Democrat]

50. That Israeli tactic of not negotiating

has serve ONLY to prolong the conflict and put facts on the ground to ensure conflict forever.


Israel a land of injustice and stolen land. Because it happened only 55 years ago, those people are still alive and they have been ruined by the state of Israel. So it is really suprising they are willing to blow themselves up? Israel has made a proud people into rabid animals by turning the territories into a giant concentration camp.


A land of oppressed has become the land of oppressors.

[Behind the Aegis]

54. .

Israel has a long history of negotiations. Both sides have refused at various times because they couldn't get exactly what they wanted.

Israel is not stolen land. It was created by a British Mandate. The same Mandate that would have produced a Palestinian nation. Israel has not made anyone into animals, terrorists are responsible for their own actions. The OTs are not concentration camps.

A land of the oppressed is still being oppressed, as it oppresses.

[manic expression]

59. It oppresses

Israel is mostly stolen land. In 1948 hundreds of thousands of Palestinians were thrown off their land, and the land was then stolen by Israel. Settlements have been established by Israel to take Palestine's land and give it to Israelis. Countless Palestinian homes have been demolished, and the inhabitants have been evicted. The WB wall is built on Palestinian land, which, in effect, denies Palestinians access to their own land.

That's daylight robbery.

Israel has disrespected Palestinians and thrown them out of their homes regularly, and I would not treat an animal like that.

[Chicago Democrat]

64. More "Israel can do no wrong" non-statements

Start negotiating today then! But no, Sharon blows off the "road map" and builds walls around the 3rd holiest city in Islam, Jerusalem.

Saying the land isn't stolen doesnt make it so. Yes some was legimately purchased. But quite alot of land presently occupied by Israel was taken, stolen, occupied without compensation, the owners killed, the olive trees uprooted and the occupants terrorized off the land through no fault of thier own.

Sorry Abu, the Brit just gave your homeland to Izzy. Tough luck.

Sorry Ibrahim, Abraham is picking the olives off the tree your dad planted.

You refuse to let the other side have the last word. What a nightmare, some holy land. Accursed land more like.

[Behind the Aegis]

73. Now it's "non-statements."

So, if I DON'T say something, it means I support it. Interesting logic.

[Chicago Democrat]

77. Stop building the wall on Palestinian land.

There. That's something specific. Support that.

[Name removed]

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[Chicago Democrat]

51. Its bullshit... The term is meaningless...

Its called assymetrical warfare.

[geek tragedy]

58. No, it's called MURDER and TERRORISM.

It's not warfare when the US tortures people--it's a goddamn crime.

When Palestinian terrorists murder Israeli civilians, it's a goddamn crime.

[Chicago Democrat]

66. Yes what Israel does amounts to murder and terrorism...

on a daily basis. So whose the good guy?

[geek tragedy]

69. Why do you call it "terrorism" when Israel kills but refuse to call

it "terrorism" when Palestinians slaughter working class men, women, and children?

[Chicago Democrat]

72. Both are terrorism... silly

:)

[Jim Sagle]

89. Israel is the good guy. Snap out of it.

[manic expression]

55. What if a country plans to throw people off their land

and kill people for little reason?

That, I believe, is horrible. Does the term terrorism apply to that?

"Terrorism" is pretty much the ONLY possible way Palestinians can fight against the country that is oppressing them in any significant way. That is why it is happening, and once the oppression stops there is a very good chance the terrorism will stop as well.

And yes, the US should stop giving Isreal endless support regardless of their actions.

[Colorado Blue]

101. The Palestinians are being oppressed by Arab leadership

and by the militias. Since 1948, when they could have had an independent state, war has been selected instead. They could have had a state again just recently but Arafat REFUSED, and refused even to negotiate if he didn't like certain details.

Even worse, instead of offering citizenship and homes to the refugees, they've been living and multiplying in refugee camps for 60 years. This is ridiculous, inhumane beyond comprehension to me considering the vast size and richness of the 22 Arab states. Immigration laws discriminate against Palestinians, except in Jordan - and this is primarily political: supposedly to maintain the "Palestinian identity". Translation: to keep people miserable, to use them as pawns, and to continue the war against Israel.

It's bullshit, to have kept this war going all these years. Israel has sought peace from Day 1 and has been answered with guns and bombs.

I'm so tired of this ignorant, hateful babble. Do some basic reading. Here, it's a start:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_Israeli_conflict
http://www.tellthechildrenthetruth.com/

The second site belongs to a Sunni Imam and a Ph.D. professor of Islamic history.

[Englander]

107. *snigger*

--"The second site belongs to a Sunni Imam and a Ph.D. professor of Islamic history."

No,it doesn't,& no he isn't.

Tell me,why do you think the 2nd link you posted
is a credible source?

Why do you think that a site that talks of 'islamo-nazis'
is going to have a credible or coherent version of history?

[Coastie for Truth]

108. That's CB's opinion

my opinion is that the consortium of the mineral industry and the House of Saud are "Saudi-Romanovs" - headed for a Romanov style fall.

And, I think I know as much about BP and Shell as any person not in a "fiduciary" relationship with them.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=124&topic_id=95543&mesg_id=95884

BTW - here's a link to a book that I co-authored with some BP and Shell people in the 1960's--

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1577853318/002-2961057-2920035?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance (this is the later, edition - I did the red plastic bound 1960's edition).

There's also some later stuff I did with BP (when they were still Sohio) on photovoltaics in the 1980's.

And, I am not an Islam-hater or bigot ---

[Englander]

109. Quoi?

Was that post meant for me,'cos I don't see any
mention of the points I made about the 'islamo-nazi'
fixated web-site,or whether it should be used as
a source on DU,or why anyone would think that such
a godawful vanity site is in any way adding anything
to the ongoing discussion?

Because that was the point I was making in post 107,
& I cannot see where you have touched on those issues
in your post,which appears to deal with unrelated subjects?

[Coastie for Truth]

110. Your append raised the point

107. *snigger*

Why do you think that a site that talks of 'islamo-nazis' is going to have a credible or coherent version of history?

And, I do not think they are Islamo-Fascists. I think they are Islamo-Romanovs - headed for a Romanov style end.

[Englander]

111. I understand now.

What threw me was thinking that no-one
would actually seriously,consider that,yes,
a site that mentions such a phrase could
provide a balanced & coherent view of historical
events.

If I take that on board,& read post 108 again,
I see the relevance.

I was only commenting on the 'tellthechildren' site,
not the bulk of CB's 'history' lesson,which I thought
I'd made clear by providing a specific quote by CB.

[Colorado Blue]

39. Israel is LIKE FRANCE???? Oh, give me a break. Israel is

smaller than Lake Erie and was created, not by conquerors, but by refugees from horror, holocaust and war. This includes the refugees from ancient Middle Eastern communities who were expelled after 1948 - some 900,000 people, or more.

The rest of the Middle East is now essentially judenrein. That means, NO JEWS. Well, ok, there are about 8,000 left, in communities that existed long before Islam. Worldwide there are some 13 million of us out of about 6 BILLION. That's 2 million LESS than before Hitler's little party in our honor. Yet, we are unable to live peacefully and increasingly have, once again, become the object of conspiracy theories and some truly dreadful hypothesizing about World Domination - all the old miseries plus new ones focused on Eretz Israel.

I might also add, France has held vast imperial possessions and has participated in countless wars.

J'adore la France but comparing France and her glories as well as her enormous misdeeds to ISRAEL is beyond ridiculous.

Israel IS unique and has unique problems and a unique culture, and this must be respected.

[Chicago Democrat]

42. Ok you got me. France is a real country and Israel is a fake country.

Just joking.


Yes Israel is unique because alot of her land belongs to somebody else. They should have to pay for it do something other than basically take it. Yes, many unique issues. Much newer than France.


My point was that Israel should be allowed to do things like:


1) Destroy tens of thousands of Arab houses
2) engage in collective punishment
3) Build a wall on NOT israeli land
4) take Arab Jerusalem


Junk like that..

[Name removed]

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[Behind the Aegis]

31. I see

Making contrary comments is a personal attack now?! The reason Israeli news gets buried is because some people cannot hold back their hate for Israel. Trash talk? Whatever.

[Name removed]

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[Colorado Blue]

41. WE are trash talking? Please just take a moment and

read through this thread.

The hatred just REEKS.

I'm disgusted and sad.

[Chicago Democrat]

44. I hate Zionism...

Is that allowed?


Excuse me for not believing in the Old Testament as Real estate law or "chosen" people.

[Name removed]

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[Colorado Blue]

103. Sure, you can bitch all you want to. But why hate the desire

and need for a persecuted people to live in a homeland of their own?

That is the meaning of Zionism, nothing more and nothing less. Self-determination within Israel, that is Zionism.

We Jews happen to feel that we have a right not only to exist, which is not to be taken for granted - but that we have a right to live in our national home, the one place in the world where we don't have to be a demonized minority and where we can actually have some hope of protecting ourselves.

Nor is Judaism merely a religion. We are a culture, a people, one of the oldest in the world.

In Europe, we had no such chance and nearly half of our number were wiped out in a few short years - following nearly 2,000 years of torture, persecution and demonization in the Christian world and oppression and 2nd class citizenship in Islam.

We still number 2 million less than before Hitler - some 13 million - about 5 million + live here and another 5 in Israel. The others are scattered around the world, and we're all incredibly vulnerable.

It is estimated that, without the persecutions, the expulsions, the ghettoizations and the murders, we'd in fact number around 125 million - a respectable group, like the Germans or the French. So Israel is of existential significance to the Jewish community. The wars against Israel are and have been of existential significance. Threats against her are threats against nearly half our number.

So think about what you're really saying here.

[manic expression]

49. The outrage is valid and correct

people HATE Israel's actions because they are DETESTABLE. Stealing land, murdering people and destroying livelihoods is neither tolerable nor respectable.

You should be disgusted with what Israel has done and is doing.

(edited: hatred to outrage)

[Pystoff]

62. Got a better idea

Give them nothing but a middle finger.

Israel and the Palestinians can kiss my I don't give a damn about them ass.

Take away all their guns and let them fight it out with rocks cause thats all that grows there LOL.

[manic expression]

65. Are you serious? n/t

[Pystoff]

92. Yes I am

Our globe trotting "interventionist" crap has gotta stop and this is a good first place to envoke that.

We've built a bully war machine around Israel and the Middle East hates us for it. Let some other sucker of a country take up the job cause the majority in this country is probably had it with these 2 parties.

The US is a majority isolationist country and we should get back to our pre-WW2 state of world affairs.

[Chicago Democrat]

75. Funny...

Its about how I feel....



They really deserve each other... What a pair.


Israelis and Palestinians include some of the most unreasonable, argumentative, parochial imbecilic hot heads that ever lived.

[Pystoff]

93. How very true

Funniest part is they are essentially the same group of ppl....just different messed up religious ideologies. Ideologies that seem to make them even more assholish than normal assholes LOL.

[Colorado Blue]

98. You know what - I find this comment absolutely bigoted and

ignorant.

Both these groups of people have ancient, valid and complex histories. Each represents cultural ideas that have given great gifts to the world.

It is tragic that they are at war with one another.

But it is MORE tragic that a person posting on a "liberal" website is so uninformed about what is going on here and who these people are - ALL of them.

They all have a story. And to dismiss their histories and their cultures in this way is despicable.

It shows an amazing lack of respect.

[Pystoff]

106. Ignorant and bigoted you say?

Liberal doesn't make me some pansy that lets bullshit slide when it ought to be called on anybody or group. These two need to be put a proverbial corner for a few centuries after the crap they've pulled.

I didn't dismiss their history or culture at all so you are reaching pretty damn far there holier than thou. Yeah they have a long history both of them and so do plenty of other cultures that have been around alot longer than them. But I don't give them either of them any fucking slack during my lifetime for the massive piles of cultural and historical bullshit they have pulled.

I owe neither any respect because I have only been alive since 1970 so you know what I've witnessed. And by your standards I should give the Republicans historical respect for Lincoln....considering what they've become no I won't so these two sides earned their scorn from me and just about anyone who's ever paid taxes that has ended up in their governments-PLO pockets.

Now defend that and use bigot in the correct fashion nextime when you accuse someone of that because I never made ANY remark remotely bigoted....just fed up which doesn't apply.

[Coastie for Truth]

94. Texas Cow Pattie

after all they're about 1/3 of the reason we are there in the first place!

Click on over to
1.
2.
and learn something.

The whole reason we are in Iraq is
OIL
OIL
OIL
OIL
OIL

AND THE AMERICAN SOCCER MOMS WHO HAVE TO HAVE SUPER SIZE SUV'S

AND THE AMERICAN GUYS WHO HAVE TO HAVE F-150'S

THIS WAR IS ABOUT ONE THING

AMERICAN BLOOD FOR ARAB OIL

I have only been in the freakin' energy industry for something over 30years, and I repeat

THIS WAR IS ABOUT ONE THING

AMERICAN BLOOD FOR ARAB OIL

and anything else is so much General Motors and ExxonMobil bull crap to divert attention from their own management shortcomings.

[sendero]

16. How do I say..

.... FUCK YOU in Hebrew?

The sad fact is, our co-opted government will probably pay. And why not, the dollar is going to be worthless soon anyway :)

[physioex]

35. That won't be a problem...

They will just double the money.....

[Zhade]

23. Ouch. Is it really needed, or is this a bribe of sorts demanded by Sharon?

I mean, if it's legitimately needed to get settlers and IDF off of Palestinian land, that's not wholly unreasonable (though I don't recall Israel being poor, exactly).

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

24. Could this money at least be tied to a guarantee by Israel that

resettlement will only occur in designated areas that are not in controversy? Considering the blank checks that Bush has given to Sharon and the Likudniks, I don't hold out very much hope.

[physioex]

34. It's going to be like this.....

The money appropriated for Homeland Security buys things like tractors, debfribelators for the high school. The same with the money that goes to the "pull out"......

[Bread and Circus]

46. Can any of you political savvy tell me why we give them money at all??

It seems weird to me. I may be wrong but I thought Israel was a fairly prosperous nation.

[Colorado Blue]

100. It isn't. It is a first world nation in terms of culture,

diversity and education but is a developing nation in terms of economy - it is poor. It is about on par with Greece.

And, an astonishing amount of money and blood go into defense. That is keeping the nation from developing and exploiting its human resources.

It doesn't HAVE any natural resources, it is smaller than New Jersey and more than 60% of that is the Negev desert. So its economy relies upon post industrial and industrial production, advanced agricultural techniques, intellectual property (such as microchip design) and, when shit isn't blowing up, tourism.

They also make some $ from arms sales but the US gets mad at them for that so they're in a bind in that respect - one of their more profitable products, they can't sell freely without getting into trouble with the US. It's a Catch-22.

[Colorado Blue]

53. Investment and Compassion

If anybody on DU reacted like this to calls for US to the Sudan, or to Iraq, or to any other wartorn nation, we'd be considered out of line, not to mention lacking in compassion and understanding and other progressive virtues.

Israel, however, is apparently fair game.

Please consider this: Israel consists of HUMAN BEINGS, 6 million people from all over the world, most of them refugees from bigotry, persecution, holocaust and war.

Warfare and terror have dogged her continuously since her inception and terrorism marred the generations who created her.

At what point is enough blood enough to convince people that the citizens of Israel deserve better than this? And that they need and deserve our support in their quest for a PEACE TREATY and for some security?

We should be overjoyed to be helping with the withdrawal and hope to heaven that, given the opportunity for self-determination, the people in the liberated terroritories use the time and resources wisely and NOT merely as a platform to launch yet another war.

Meanwhile the hateful tone of many of these posts illustrates to me the fact that 'ISRAEL' is just an abstraction to most of you, and not in fact a democratic nation of HUMAN BEINGS, and not a gang of horned demons. These people are mothers, fathers, little children, husbands, wives, parents. One of of five has suffered some loss from terror or war. Some still bear tattoos from Auschwitz and Dachau and Birkenau. Many have served in several wars and are looking forward to more.

The last people in the world who should be hating them are American citizens, ourselves refugees and immigrants - especially not people on the MORALLY SUPERIOR left.

And in any case, a just solution to the problems of Israel and the Arabs will result in an opportunity for the hundreds of millions of people of the middle east to concentrate on their OWN problems and futures instead of spending all their time and resources focusing on I/P, and using Israel as an excuse to avoid joining the 21st century. It is really not an exaggeration to suggest that this is the case, since a recent UN report by an Arab scholar claimed the existence of Israel as the root of all the problems in the Middle East.

No doubt this is absurd, but it illustrates graphically the mindset in the region - so any investment on our part to solve the problem is all to the good - especially since our vital resource, oil, is found in this region in great abundance. We literally depend upon Middle Eastern oil.

This money can only be good for the people of the region and for the people of the United States. You should be celebrating, and hoping, and supporting this investment in peace.

[Swamp Rat]

57. Then why not give the 2 billion to Africa?!?

THEY ARE HUMANS TOO!

:mad:

[Colorado Blue]

99. I think we should absolutely be helping Africa. I think we

should have intervened in Rwanda and we should ABSOLUTELY be stopping the carnage in the Sudan.

It amazes and saddens me that I can't get a decent conversation going about the Sudan, people would rather complain about Israel when a genocide is going on in Sudan, with African tribal and ethnic minorities being wiped out by the hundreds of thousands.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sudan

This problem is echoed throughout Africa, with minority groups such as the Berber being increasingly pressurized. This is affecting women especially. And, in both Africa and Israel, radical Islamism is playing a role, it is playing a role in the Palestinian community that is oppressive, that is resulting in the murders of "collaborators" and in honor killings and in the repression of free expression. Liberal and progressive thinkers MUST be aware of this! Here's an interesting article that appeared in Yahoo today:

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050713/ap_en_ot/palestinians_culture_war_1

But I also do not think we can turn our backs on the I/P issue since it is providing tinder for propogandists and terror, and an excuse for Arab governments not to reform and moderate. There are hundreds of millions of Arabs living in poverty, in spite of all the riches and the vast size of their territory. This is wrong but also it creates violence and that affects US.

Finally, apart from the human toll on both sides of this issue, as long as there is trouble in I/P it will be used as an excuse for war and terror and political repression throughout the region. And this region is vital to US interests. So apart from the humanitarian reasons for helping it is in America's national, economic and geostrategic interests to do so.

[Name removed]

95. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Swamp Rat]

56. delete ... this thread is going to turn into a flame war

[DiverDave]

67. The jewish vote is too important

Of COURSE they get the cash.
Meanwhile, back on the home front...
So, That make ME an anti-semite, right?
I'm sick and tired of paying for murder.
Cut them off, cold turkey.
We have wasted BILLIONS

... for WHAT??

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geek tragedy]

78. Are you saying that "they" have dual loyalty?

What should be done about "them" anyways?

[Name removed]

80. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geek tragedy]

82. What a pig ignorant post. Yikes.

1. 3/4 of Jews voted for Kerry in 2004.

2. Most Jews are NOT neocons. That is an especially ugly statement coming from an 'anti-Zionist.'

3. Nobody accuses American Jews of having "insane loyalty" to a foreign power except Pat Buchanan-style bigots.

I don't love Israel, but I also recognize that it has a lot of really creepy enemies.

[Name removed]

83. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[geek tragedy]

84. No, I'm not. I think the US should cut off aid until Israel commits

to getting out of the occupied territories. I think the illegal settlements are a physical and moral cancer.

That doesn't excuse smearing Jewish-Americans as dual-loyalty Neocons. That's just racist.

[Chicago Democrat]

81. According to a Poll I just conducted on DU. 93% of DU'er think

US should be totally even handed with Israel and Arabs.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=4072943&mesg_id=4072943

[idontwantaname]

85. i think the US should be evenhanded with everyone...

including itself.


VOTE GREEN!

[Stray Roots]

88. n/t

n/t

[centristo]

105. the all important jewish vote

You are correct sir. No politician would be crazy enough to pass up 1% of the national vote (2002 estimate, although the Jewish population is decreasing about 5% per year). Not too mention most Jews are Democrats and we live in a Republican-controlled government.

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/us.html

[Coastie for Truth]

91. Make the $62.00 a barrel, $2.559 a gallon "Czars of Oil"

pay the $2.2 Billion to the Israelis -- and RETURN one heck of a lot more to the Arab proletariat that they (the "Czars of Oil") stole it from.

Let's try putting some pressure on the "Czars of Oil" to return their ill gotten gain to the people:

Royal Embassy of Saudi Arabia,
601 New Hampshire Avenue, N.W.,
Washington DC 20037

[phone]

or

Lee Raymond, PhD
Chief Executive Officer
Exxon Mobil Corporation
5959 Las Colinas Boulevard
Irving, Texas 75039-2298
[phone]

or

David J. O'Reilly, PhD
Chief Executive Officer
Texaco Chevron Corp
6001 Bollinger Canyon Rd.
San Ramon, CA 94583, U.S.A.
(925)-842-1000

and get them to return some of their ill-gotten gain - the birth right of the Arab proletariat.

If these people - and their predecessors - and the Saudi "Oil Czars" hadn't mercilessly ripped off the Arab people - there would be no terrorists and there would be peace in the lands and a two state solution.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

96. we already done enough ..paid with our childrens lives & 5 billion a year

[centristo]

104. are you people crazy?

many posts on this thread complain about Israeli oppresion, Israeli crimes and how Israel needs to get out of the OT. Let's ignore history for now (some of you are way ahead of me on that one) and look at the situation as it stands. Israel NEEDS to disengage NOW!

There is a very good chance that it will happen, in Gaza at least, and you people still bitch. I think $2 billion to right a very large wrong is well within our country's best interests. America's pro-Israeli position on the I/P conflict is a central pillar of the current War on Terror.

We should pay $2 billion to get Israel out of Gaza. We should pay $2 billion to get Israel out of the West Bank. We should pay the PA to get their economy growing and invest in their businesses, that is if they accept American money. We should support any secular government that may rise in the PA. After all this America should remove themselves from the conflict. Every penny would have been well spent doing the right thing.

Oh, also, if some of you are against living on stolen land you may want to move out of America. I'm pretty sure we didn't get this country legally either and you wouldn't want to look like a hypocrite. Thanks so much.