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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 07:57 AM
Original message
Israel: Transferring The Truth
Remi Kanazi
July 9, 2005


In the Israeli newspaper Haaretz, a 17-year-old student from the Gush Katif settlement spoke on the intended pullout of the Gaza Strip: “They don’t understand that being uprooted from your home is like a spiritual death.”

Perhaps the average Israeli cannot understand the immense pain of being evicted from a land that bears religious sanctity. The settler, however, fails to recognize the land in which he lives was cleansed by Israel so his family could stake their claim of spirituality.

The confiscation of land Zionists deemed necessary for a Jewish state to exist is a major obstacle to peace in the century-long conflict. Most Israelis dodge, deny or justify the ethnic cleansing of 700,000 indigenous Palestinians in 1948. David Ben-Gurion, then leader of the Jewish militant group Haganah, forthrightly declared, “After we become a strong force as the result of the creation of the state, we shall abolish, partition and expand to the whole of Palestine.”

Zionists contend Israel was a defenseless nation looking for peace with its Palestinian neighbors. Israeli historian, Benny Morris, proved the contrary, citing extensive examples from declassified Israeli, British and American archives. Morris concludes, “From April 1948, Ben-Gurion is projecting a message of transfer. There is no explicit order of his in writing, there is no orderly comprehensive policy, but there is an atmosphere of transfer. The transfer idea is in the air. The entire leadership understands that this is the idea. The officer corps understands what is required of them. Under Ben-Gurion, a consensus of transfer is created.”

Recognition of Palestinian displacement continues to manifest itself in Israel today. The majority of politicians, including the “dovish” labor party, imbue the teaching that the Palestinians of 1948 left on their own behalf, rather than by forceful displacement or fleeing for safety. The denial of transfer within the Israeli leadership perpetuates the indoctrination of falsities in Israeli society.

Remi Kanazi is the founder of Poetic Injustice, online at www.poeticinjustice.net

http://www.worldpress.org/Mideast/2113.cfm



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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:09 AM
Response to Original message
1. No one disputes "transfer in the air" in 48 - indeed getting buses for
your Arab neighbors was very little "being kind" and very much "transfer".

But the fact that the Arabs were told by their leaders to leave, that the leaders would kill the Jews quickly and return the Arabs to a Jew free land, seems a bit missing from Kanazi's writings.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:11 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. That bit's missing because it didn't happen...
It's another of those myths that has well and truly been debunked in the years since...

Violet...
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:19 AM
Response to Reply #2
3. ? - the calls to leave transcripts are in the record - were the "buses" an
urban myth that got debunked when I wasn't looking?
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:30 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. The transcripts are in the records?
Which records would they be, papau? Because historians have been over the transcripts of radio broadcasts from the time and there was no calls to leave in order to clear the way for a Jewish-free return. Apart from the fact that the claim paints the Palestinian population as a bunch of anti-Semites, the vast majority of Palestinians fled from the fighting out of a very understandable fear, or were expelled from their homes...

Violet...
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:40 AM
Response to Reply #5
6. The copies that I have are of the Mullah's urging the flock to leave
I do not believe they are lies.

They do not straight forward connect leaving with when we kill the Jews and with then return home, but all three thoughts were expressed.

Are the 48 Mullah's calls now refuted? - is so what is the source, since it seemed a clear sourcing to specific speeches in specific Mosques.

I grant you I have not kept up with this, but I do not recall any research that refuted the reports of the speeches in the Mosques. The Arab radio broadcast wording was what in 48? - if that is what we are saying does not say "leave now and come back later"?
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:52 AM
Response to Reply #6
8. Radio broadcasts?
Would you be able to give me a link to them or send me a copy of them?
Considering the massive numbers that left Palestine, I find it pretty implausable that large numbers of people would have been exposed to those calls anyway...

Ilan Pappe went through radio archives from the time of the war and debunked the Israeli version of events that radio broadcasts from Arab leaders in neighbouring states called for Palestinians to flee and return victorious to a Jewish-free Palestine. Benny Morris has also written on the causes of the refugee problem. Birth of the Palestinian Refugee Problem Revisited is big and chunky and goes into great detail about the events of the time...

Violet...
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:57 AM
Response to Reply #8
10. Thanks - I agree radio was not in every home - and not every Mosque said
to leave - indeed Israel had and has a good sized Arab population.

Thanks for the leads on the radio broadcasts review - Now I have something to do for the rest of the day!

But first a med's run, then lunch!

peace

:-)
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 09:16 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Try and get hold of a copy of Morris' book...
As far as I know he's the only historian who's gone into depth on the causes of the refugee problem, and it's very well researched and documented...

I'm off to bed now so enjoy yr day, and it's great seeing you in the forum again :)

Cheers...

Violet...
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 09:19 AM
Response to Reply #11
12. I will get the Morris book - nice talking to you. Sleep well
:-)
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #12
14. 640 pages in the 2nd edition! at least he does not deny that
Abandonment on Arab orders did not occur - but he does indeed say that this was an infrequent reason.

Now on to more reading!
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 02:43 AM
Response to Reply #14
20. Told you it was big and chunky!
I still haven't sat down and read it from cover to cover - I've just done the intro, conclusion and a few chapters in between while I was writing an essay last year, so I might start it again this weekend. We should start a book club like the one Oprah does! :)

Violet...
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Lithos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-05 10:24 AM
Response to Reply #11
24. Uri Milstein
Also discussed this to a fair level of detail and I think is a source used by Benny Morris.

L-
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:28 AM
Response to Original message
4. either out of date or malicious....
Recognition of Palestinian displacement continues to manifest itself in Israel today. The majority of politicians, including the “dovish” labor party, imbue the teaching that the Palestinians of 1948 left on their own behalf, rather than by forceful displacement or fleeing for safety. The denial of transfer within the Israeli leadership perpetuates the indoctrination of falsities in Israeli society

sometimes i guess its hard to accept the societies change and learn....but then it seems the writer prefers not to know israeli society....that above quote perhaps was relevant about 20 years ago, its perpetuation doesnt belong in an intelligent discussion.
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:48 AM
Response to Reply #4
7. I agree - a large part of the Arabs of Israel fled - and were not "driven"
out by force - but they were driven out by fear of the war and did indeed lose their homes and become displaced persons (as did millions in Europe - the walk of the Germans out of Poland to a Germany they had never lived in before is an interesting story).

Compensation is on the table - but "right of return" is, as it should be, a dead issue, regardless of UN resolutions that the Arabs had passed in the past.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 08:55 AM
Response to Reply #4
9. It's neither out of date nor malicious...
The majority of Israeli politicians do indeed cling to the myth that Palestinians fled on their own behalf rather than being expelled or fleeing out of fear...

Violet...
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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 01:05 AM
Response to Reply #9
18. violet- though, i ve dont no research.....
nothing on the subject of the palestenain refugees, whether they left on their own or were pushed out, or were pressured out...

just what i read in the papers, TV interviews with palestenains, israel arabs, etc..its pretty clear that it was a combination, depending upon which areas. I'm assuming that the "strategic areas they were pushed out by force.

In a village near me, the palestenains refused to leave, and are now living in a "non village" (ein hod) near their original one"..the one next to me, they told the hagana, that they are not part of this fight (pharades) and went though the war without an incident, no one left.

some places all thats left is a pile of rocks. Rumors fly fast around here, and become the catalyst for action. No doubt some villagers left simply out of fear of "what will be'..a common enough action during a war.

theres not going to be a single reason, people were involved, during the pressure of a war, reactions of very individualized, I have no doubt it was simply a combination of pressure, both israeli and arab, fear, military force in some areas, political in others.....as far our politicans go, we've got more than enough idiotes there to find the appropriate quote...and you dont even have to look very hard but to claim that they represent the general knowledge of the israeli population is not true.
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Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 03:11 AM
Response to Reply #18
21. Nation-building myths...
Other countries also have them, and they're remarkably resistant things. For example, mention to some Americans that George Washington was pretty incompetent and dense as far as presidents go and I bet there'd be calls to string you up from the highest tree, even though what you say would be true it doesn't matter because it harms the myth surrounding George Washington. And we've got the highly romanticised version of Gallipoli as ours. I do know that back in 1999(?) a textbook was introduced into Israeli school curriculums that gave a way more balanced picture of the events of 1948 than anything before it, but it was removed after a while. And it does appear to me that non-Israeli 'supporters' of Israel tend to cling to the 'they all ran off because Arab states broadcast calls to leave so the Jews could be slaughtered' myth more than Israelis. They don't realise that the reality doesn't delegitimise Israel's right to exist...

Another factor in why some Palestinians fled/were expelled and others stayed put was down to the varying ways Haganah commanders interpreted Plan Dalet. Some took it as an order to expel the Palestinian population, while others didn't...

Violet...
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Monkie Donating Member (675 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 09:27 AM
Response to Reply #4
13. i guess you are right in saying its hard to judge change from the outside
the only information us outsiders have is from the press,and i make a point to read haarezt regulary to keep up on things and i find it a very balanced source of information and the editorials provide a excellent view of the whole spectrum of Israeli thought (in my view).
so while im perfectly willing to accept i dont know israeli society and will readily say that i dont view the whole of israeli society as having this problem, i myself experiance what the author of this piece is talking about.
i do think that quote from the article is particulary relevant here and in other media i come across, as there is quite alof of "perpetuation that doesnt belong in intelligent discussion" and denial of history that to me seems malicious and that is based upon these myths.

to be clear i might not always agree with you but you do "belong in an intelligent discussion".This post is only tagged on to yours because the point i wanted to make continues on from what you said and not because i am in disagrement with what you said
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centristo Donating Member (500 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 04:54 PM
Response to Original message
15. a wash?
About 700,000 Palestinians (estimates vary from 520,000 to 957,000 <1>) and estimated 600,000 to 900,000 <2> Jews became refugees. In a few cases, (e.g. in Morocco) local Arab governments encouraged Jews to stay, and some Jewish leaders (e.g. in Haifa) encouraged Arabs to stay. Jewish refugees were absorbed by Israel; Palestinian refugees were neglected by most Arab nations, which by some were blamed for the poverty and hatred prevailing in some Palestinian camps, while others blamed Israel for their expulsion. The United Nations Relief and Works Agency for Palestine Refugees in the Near East was established to alleviate their condition. The fighting ended with signing of the Rhodes Armistice, but only two states eventually signed a peace agreement with Israel: Egypt (1978) and Jordan (1994).

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab-Israeli_Conflict

As we see here, 700K Palestinians and roughly 700K Jews were made refugees in this time period. It appears to me that the Jews were welcomed into Israel while the Palestinians were barred from Jordan, Lebannon, Egypt, Syria, etc. and left to fend for themselves.
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newyorican Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jul-13-05 07:56 PM
Response to Original message
16. 1 Picture = 1000 words
1,000,000 words if they are mealy-mouthed rationalizations.

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pelsar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 12:55 AM
Response to Reply #16
17. newyorican.....
it you want to use that graphic....which I acutally have no complaint though it is rather simple....there is a lesson to be learned here:

STOP SHOOTING AT US!, Stop with the stuiped "protocols of zion' stop with the pathetic "Zahra's Blue Eyes": ..stop with the " White Zionist Ship Sails Around the World, Kidnapping Babies to Use Their Organs" etc.

And it is related...as long as my neighbors insist on call me, teaching their children that I am some kind of monster, there is little chance that I am all of a sudden going to be sympathetic to those same societies, their brethren and their hardships

yea we got a wall, yea during wars we take their land, yea we infiltrate their cities, fly over their countries, spy on their leaders...and you know what?...we'll keep on doing it since we dont have a "second chance".....if we take a chance and we're wrong...we're dead or living under some new arab dictactorship.... They, our neighbors however dont have that same problem...they can easily stop with the above crap, see if theres a change....if not they can pick up right where they left off, no problem.

and still we're willing to take a risk...will it change?...will any of the egyptian universities invite an israeli professor over as a lecturer?...how about jordan? will they invite an israeli reporter over to discuss the current events?....call me when those events start to happen, and then and only then, will our neighbors and their friends have any right to complain about our actions, because then and only then will they be starting to see us as humans as opposed to "organ harvestors"-sheeesh cant believe that crap actually goes on in the 21st century.....

those maps are worth more than 1,000 words, just not the ones you want to hear.
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remrem Donating Member (4 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-24-05 05:08 AM
Response to Reply #17
23. a few things
It's unfortunate that Israel shot first, and hasn't really stopped since.

Actions speak louder than words, although words never hurt the argument. Israel, if anybody, is more the candidate of "pushing people into the sea."

Arab hatred is rampant in Israeli society as well, I think to characterize it as one sided is a bit ridiculous. And the Palestinian animosity must be put into context. The blacks of South Africa didn't hate the whites because they were white, their anger was at the oppression they faced as a people. The Palestinians were stripped of their homes, their surroundings and were told "tough luck." That's a hard pill to swallow, especially when those same people that drove them out of their homes, now occupy the land in which they live today. The effects of 1948 and the atrocities since can't be forgotten.

Your justification for the hardships of Palestinian people is fear?? It's pathetic. People who have conquered in the past, caused genocide, committed widespread atrocities, have used the guise of security, the guise of fear in the same manner. This second chance is an excuse to oppress an indigenous population with impunity.

There are Egyptian newspapers that are very friendly with Israelis and Jews, and their points of view. If you look at some of the biggest supporters of Palestinian rights, it's Jews and Israelis. I think that many in Israel have to look internally and say enough is enough with the disinformation campaign. They have to recognize parts of their history that are blemished. How can one expect the Palestinians to reconcile with people that don't even acknowledge the oppression of the Palestinian people and the events of 1948?

Peace brings security, not the other way around. I think that once the reteaching process begins, and motions to resume peace talks based on resolution 242, ending the occupation, dismantling all the settlements, bringing land continuity to the West Bank and Gaza, giving back control of the ports and airspace, addressing the issue of right of return and East Jerusalem, only then can moves toward peace really happen. The Palestinians have rights under international law that must be fulfilled, now how they are implemented is up for discussion.
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Behind the Aegis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 01:18 AM
Response to Reply #16
19. So very true!
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eyl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-14-05 03:36 AM
Response to Reply #16
22. That map assumes
that all land that wasn't Jewish-owned, was Palestinian-owned. That's not the case - see the Report of the Survey of Palestine (1946).

Not to mention that the first map, at least, seems to include some Jewish areas as PAlestinian ones - as far as I can make out, Tel Aviv (which was built by Jews in 1908) and all its environs are marked as Palestinian territory.
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