Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

What is Zionism?

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 06:44 AM
Original message
What is Zionism?
The headline on Haaretz's July 12 front page to the effect that, for the first time since the period of the Second Temple, the largest concentration of Jews in the world will be in the State of Israel, arouses the question as to whether the era of Zionism has ended. This is because there has been no Zionist leader, not even Herzl, who believed that all the Jews, or the vast majority of them, would immigrate to Eretz Israel from Europe and the United States. Their "out of this world" desire, which had utopian elements, was to reach 2 million Jews, according to Chaim Weizmann, Israel's first president, and 5 million, according to the ambitions of Zionist leader Ze'ev Jabotinsky and David Ben-Gurion, Israel's first prime minister.

The fact that the number of Jews in Israel has passed the utopian borderline, and that starting this year the community here will constitute the largest concentration of the Jewish people, cannot be credited only to Zionism. Three processes led to it. One was tragic - the Holocaust, which destroyed a third of our people. The second is related to achievement - the extraordinary success of the Jewish immigrants in the Western countries, which is causing an intermarriage rate of 40 to 50 percent and a decline in the birthrate. The third is constructive - the establishment of the Jewish-Hebrew nation in its sovereign state by the Zionist movement, which has led to the immigration of thousands of Jews since the founding of the state.

As a result of these processes, the historical Jewish community in exile has been eliminated. It no longer suffers from the mass distress that characterized Jewish existence in its large concentrations in Eastern Europe, and the Jewish communities in free countries are not considered part of an ethnic group without a homeland. From now on, Jewish status is equal to that of the Poles, the Italians, the Armenians, et al. Moreover, the State of Israel, by means of the Law of Return, has turned the Jews into the freest nation in the world, whose members can choose between citizenship in their native land and free aliyah (immigration) to their homeland. Apparently, masses of people will not take advantage of this freedom. On the other hand, the process by which many are becoming distant from the Jewish community, due to intermarriage and a decline in the birthrate, will become increasingly dominant.

Therefore, the question arises: Has Zionism concluded its historical role? The answer to that depends on how we understand Zionism. Those with a positive post-Zionist viewpoint, who consider Zionism a legitimate national movement, believe that as a result of its achievements, it has concluded its historical role. On the other hand, in the opinion of those who see Zionism as a way to ensure the continued existence of the Jews as an "eternal nation" in their state and in the Diaspora, the historical role of Zionism has not yet ended, and it will even increase over time. This is because Zionism, in accordance with its worldview, addressed klal yisrael, the entire Jewish community, as opposed to other modern movements among the Jews, such as the Reform Movement and the Conservative Movement, and on the other hand, the sectarian Bund. From this point of view, Israel as a Jewish state with the Law of Return is preserving the historical role of Zionism. And from this state, in the new conditions that have been created, should emerge the idea of renewing the historical "Love of Zion" movement, which more than 100 years ago placed the question of Jewish nationalism at the center of public discourse.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/602724.html
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
IndianaGreen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 07:35 AM
Response to Original message
1. What is Zionism versus what was Zionism
It doesn't mean the same thing today than what it meant 50 years ago, or 100 years ago.

Just as Bush has turned words like "freedom" and "democracy" into obscenities, those that believe in the Greater Israel have turned Zionism into a word that denotes racism to billions of people around the world. One is reminded of the words of Robert Bowman when he spoke about the reasons why the West was hated in so many countries:

"We are not hated because we practice democracy, value freedom, or uphold human rights. We are hated because our government denies these things to people in Third World countries whose resources are coveted by our multinational corporations. That hatred we have sown has come back to haunt us in the form of terrorism and in the future, nuclear terrorism."

Perhaps the same thing applies to Israel. Israel is not hated because she practices democracy, values freedom, or upholds human rights, or because it is a Jewish state. Israel is hated because her government denies these things to the non-Jews that live within her borders and the Palestinians that are still living under her occupation.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 09:44 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. You are missing something
Israel is not hated because she practices democracy, values freedom, or upholds human rights, or because it is a Jewish state. Israel is hated because her government denies these things to the non-Jews that live within her borders and the Palestinians that are still living under her occupation.


100% wrong!

Israel is hated because more people believe Mel Gibson then believe Pope John XXIII or Pope John Paul II or Vatican II.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TomClash Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 01:36 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. here we go again
:eyes:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
IA_Seth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 02:17 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. You're right.
I bet Joe-Blow Palestinian is pissed because he believes Mel Gibson over the Pope.

I am agreein with you!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-22-05 07:44 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Don't you know?
If it wasn't for Mel Gibson and his all-reaching power of convincability, everyone would love Israel. See, it's got nothing to do with any of that other silly stuff that Indy mentioned. If it wasn't for Mel Gibson everyone would love Israel! ;)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Coastie for Truth Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 04:15 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. Half right
Try the Gospel of St. John, which noted theologian Forrest Church - and many others - including Pope John XXIII and Pope John Paul II have all questioned.

Gibson was the latest popularizer.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Violet_Crumble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-23-05 09:06 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. Oh-kay...
Yup. It's all about religious bigotry and hasn't got a thing to do with Israel's occupation and treatment of the Palestinians. :yoiks:

Violet...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bloom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Jul-21-05 02:30 PM
Response to Original message
2. google
Edited on Thu Jul-21-05 02:46 PM by bloom
Zionism in the news...

Electronic Intifada
Two new Israeli documentaries explore the moral failure of Zionism
Electronic Intifada, IL - Jul 20, 2005
Two new Israeli films that premiered at this month's Jerusalem Film Festival explore the moral failure that is inherent in Zionism. ...
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article4018.shtml


Katsav: Refusal is 'danger to Zionism'
Jerusalem Post, Israel - Jul 17, 2005
Calling the refusal of military orders a "danger to Zionism," President Moshe Katsav rebuked the former chief rabbis Sunday for their ruling that soldiers and ...
http://pqasb.pqarchiver.com/jpost/index.html?ts=1121973912 (archived)

Abstract (Document Summary)
Moshe Katsav, who spoke at the National Religious Party's (NRP) election convention Sunday, added that religious leaders should to be aware of an "uncontrollable" minority that might commit "dangerous acts." Former chief rabbis Avraham Shapira and Mordechai Eliyahu were both scheduled to speak after Katsav, but Eliyahu cancelled his appearance at the last moment.


Ha'aretz
Nobody is listening
Ha'aretz, Israel - 1 hour ago
... Decades ago, our public, the religious-Zionist public, made a strategic decision to live together with secular Zionism; together with the public that is not ...
Reflections on decisive times and decisive orders Ha'aretz
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/603188.html


Zionism: Ruin and Dread
Arab News, Saudi Arabia - Jul 10, 2005
Charged with being anti-Semitic, critics of Israel commonly counter that it is not Jews they are attacking but Zionism. Yet for ...
http://www.arabnews.com/?page=7§ion=0&article=66760&d=11&m=7&y=2005

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Fri Dec 27th 2024, 07:50 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » Israel/Palestine Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC