Has A Right-Wing Zionist Cabal Hijacked The White House?

[vierundzwanzig]

Is the tail wagging the dog?

William Bowles

08/05/03. An essay by Stephen J. Sniegoski ‘The war on Iraq: Conceived in Israel,' poses the idea that US foreign policy is controlled by a ‘cabal’ of right-wing Zionists, who have effectively hijacked the White House in pursuit of a ‘Greater Israel.’ The essay written in February 2003, before the invasion of Iraq proposes,

"he idea of a Middle East war has been bandied about in Israel for many years as a means of enhancing Israeli security, which revolves around an ultimate solution to the Palestinian problem."

It further proposes the idea that 9/11 was used as a pretext to launch a final onslaught on the Palestinians, the Arab nations of the Middle East plus Iran, and in doing so, produce a ‘final solution’ to the Palestinian question. This ‘solution’ could be effected if the Middle East entered what one Zionist ideologue refers to as "revolutionary times" such as that presented by the (fortuitous) attack on the WTC.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article4362.htm

[Darranar]

1. Very muddled article...

Anyway, it should be clear that it is the PNAC and not the Zionists that dictate current US foreign policy (despite Pat Buchanan's and David duke's allegations to the contrary).

[TreasonousBastard]

2. Yeah...

I don't buy the ZOG nonsense, but there are times when interests overlap.

We got oil, Israel, regional stablility, terrorists, and a bunch of fundies and end-timers hanging out with Zionists thinking the Second Coming is around the corner, and helping them rebuild the Temple.

And then there's the Heritage Foundation, the source of PNAC, with all the answers and controlling key jobs in the administration. These people want mostly what the Zionists want, but for different reasons.

[Darranar]

3. That's right...

as of now, their interests overlap. They likely will for as long as Sharon is in power (may taht not be too long.)

By Zionist I assume you mean people like those at AIPAC or in the Likud political party?

[TreasonousBastard]

6. I'm thinking more of traditional or religious Zionists...

who are looking to restore the Promised Land. Kingdoms of Israel and Judea, and all that. Or just finally have a Jewish homeland for the diaspora.

The term "Zionism" can mean a lot of things, depending on who you're talking to, or about. Like so many other terms, it's been hijacked by politics.

[Darranar]

8. "traditional or religous" Zionists...

Their politics are the same as the Likudniks. My only point wss that there are true left-wingers who are also Zionists.

[Fight_n_back]

22. Trtaditional Zionists

were Socialists and not religeous. Perhaps you should crack a book or two on the subject before pretending to be an expert.

Please compare and contrast Zionism versus Palestinian Nationalism. Why s one okay and the other not?

[Tinoire]

27. Can I just ask you please

really pretty please?

end-timers hanging out with Zionists

It's not all Zionists.... Like it's not all Christians... Or all Americans...

There are some people I care deeply about, Zionists, who have been raging against the injustice done to the Palestians.

Several of them post in this forum in full support of peace and justice and would feel offended about the way you worded that; frankly I'm offended and I'm with you in sentiment. Factually, it's only SOME Zionists, but the way you worded it sounds like you're fingering the entire group.

I'd be offended to hear Muslims talk about what the Christians are doing just because Bush & Co happen to classify themselves as Christians. I think Fundamental Zionist Neo-Cons or something would be clearer.

Otherwise your post is, unfortunately, spot on.
Thanks :)

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darranar]

5. A couple of things...

First of all, PNAC goes far and beyond Israel and the Middle East. That PNAC's plan happens to correspond with the interests of the pro-Likud Zionists does not mean that pro-Likud Zionists domiante it.

I can think of two pro-Likud Zionists involved in the PNAC: Wolfowitz and Perle.

On edit: Oops, I didn't mention Feith. That's three.

And to be clearer, my point is that the ideology of the PNAC and the ideoligy behind Likudist Zionism is different, though it is compatible as proven by people like Wolfowitz.

[Flying_Pig]

7. You forgot:

Kristol, Abrams, Woolsey, and a number of others. I stand by my statement: The majority of PNAC membership are pro-Likud Zionists. If you like, I'll post the rest of the names as well. And to be clear, not all of the Likudnik/Zionists at PNAC are Jewish, but almost the entire membership supports Likud/Zionist goals, as they pertain to the Middle East, and beyond.

[bemildred]

9. It seems clear these people share certain "values"

and I use the term loosely, and are in cahoots to one
degree or another, but they do not appear to me to have the
wits to represent a long term threat, their record in power
is a litany of failure and muddle, and their time is running
out. And they certainly do not hold dictatorial power in their
own lands, however much damage they may have done in several
other places. Their Jewish heritage seems secondary to me, given
the fundies of other stripes also involved, and what binds them
would seem to be their politics, the Straussian crap and other
control-freak style attitudes. It is an insult to Machievelli to
compare his thinking to these twits.

[The Magistrate]

10. Well Said, Sir

Still, it does seem a comfort to some to discern the lineaments of the Protocols behind whatever they dislike.

[bemildred]

11. Simple explanations offer comfort to simple minds, Sir.

I have an explanation of how to pick Lotto numbers.
Would you care to purchase a copy for a modest price?

[The Magistrate]

16. As A Betting Man Myself In A Small Way, My Friend

Perhaps we could swap systems at some time in future: certainly the sale of such can bring a better remuneration than their application....

[Darranar]

15. Agreed...

though their PR campaigns offer different views of their records of muddle. Bush "liberated the Iraqi people," after all, according to the now-banned poster known as "FRrules."

[Aidoneus]

17. the suggestion on occasion..

strikes me as something of a patriotic delusion:--"America" can't really be doing such horrible things, some "Rightwing Zionist Cabal" has to be making us do this... that the suggestion ignores the history of decades of expansionism that predates even Zionism itself appears to be irrelevant, some people can feel better about their flag if they can find somebody else at fault. :shrug:

[bemildred]

19. A variant on "undermined from within" and

"not allowed to fight to win" and various other
common excuses, yes. It is never that they were just
plain stupid and incompetent or that their goals were
venal and their methods muddled. Hardly something
invented in the USA, FWIW.

[Darranar]

20. Well...

Zionism and US imperialism worldwide started around the same time (I'm not counting the expansion and genocide against the Native Americans.) There was the Spanish American War in 1898 which really started American imperialism, and the Zionist movement was picking yp speed around the same time.

Yah, I'm nitpicking. Otherwise, you're completely correct.

[Fight_n_back]

12. Absolutely

Many of your kind have referred to a "Zionist Occupied Goivernment" for years.

[seventhson]

13. Masssage to Sir Magistrate and anyone else interested

I came to the conclusion a long time ago that people like Sharon and Wolfowitz and Perle etc are not so much Zionists as they are fascists.

Blaming "Zionism" is in error.

A true Zionist would NOT, in my opinion, stir the pots of war and death with the Palestinians for political andf financial gain.

There may be some "true" Zionists among the fascists (i.e. there may be a handful of folks among the leadership or in the right wing Zionist movement who are motivated by a real desire to see a true Jewish state and will use fascism to get it) BUT, in my view the socalled Zionists like Sharon USE the cover of Zionism for personal power, profit and corrupt political gain. It is their excuse for their crimes and they have brainwashed many to believe their "cause" is justified BECAUSE they are Zionists and that what they do is for the Jewish people and the Jewish state - when it is all just greed and avarice. But they really aren't truly Zionists and could care less about their fellow Jews, Israelis ort even Israel itself.

Like Bush, Sharon could give a sh*t about "his" country or "his" people. That is just his PR ploy.

Anybody agree?

[The Magistrate]

18. Well Said, Mr. Son

You will get no quarrel with me on such formulations.

[Darranar]

21. I agree...

with you compeltely, seventhson.

Just out of curriosity, what does your username mean? Is it siply that you are a sevemth son, or is there some sort of deeper meaning to it?

[seventhson]

26. I am the seventh son of ...

a man who was one of seven sons (he wasn't the seventh though)

he worked with the Jewish and AntiNazi Underground in WWII Europe helping in a smuggling operation: smuggling Jews and other refugees out of Nazi-occupied or controlled territories to freedom.

I am writing a book about it. I traveled to Israel to do an exhibit I helped create on his story at Yad Vashem and thus became pretty well educated on this subject.

My father thought Sharon and the right wing were pretty much pure evil - and just like the Nazis in many ways.

[Flying_Pig]

23. You wrote:..

"I came to the conclusion a long time ago that people like Sharon and Wolfowitz and Perle etc are not so much Zionists as they are fascists."

Yes, I agree, indeed they are; they are fascist-Zionists.

Interesting how some here want to "soft pedal" the influence of Zionism on the actions of the PNAC cabal, and on Sharon's Likud. For gawd's sake, we must not blame radical-right-wing Zionists for anything, lest we be accused of anti-Semitism! (sarcasm intended).

It would be nice if "certain" people, would fess up to the fact, that there has been a perversion of Zionism, much in the same way there has been a perversion of religious groups in the U.S., who are now embracing radical right-wing theology. Certainly, there are evil people within this country, of all colors, types, and persuasions, and the same goes for Israel, but the facts stand, to wit:

1. PNAC is dominated and run by fascist-Zionists with ties to Sharon's Likud.

2. The majority of PNAC membership supports radical, right-wing Zionism as expressed by the Likud. The Christians in PNAC, appear to support right-wing theological versions of their religions.

3. PNAC has, at the present time, an extraordinary influence U.S. foreign policy, so much so, that our nation went to war using their "playbook" as a guide, and their principals, in positions of great power within our government.

4. A large part of the reason we went into Iraq, was because of the constant urging and badgering of Israel's Sharon, and PNAC, as part of a plan to revamp the geopolitical map of the Middle East. Other reasons, were oil, and possibly revenge. What order the reasons fall in, is anyone's guess, but they all exist, despite the effort of some to "bury" them.

5. To deny Israeli influence, vis a vis PNAC, and Likud allies within the Bush regime, on this administration, is an insult to the intelligence of any thinking observer.

6. As Israel has allowed their right-wing to take over their country, and as, vis a vis the 2000 elections, the U.S. has allowed right-wing Republicans to take over ours, the citizens of both countries bear responsibility for their respective nation's actions.

7. It is against the best interests of our nation, to be used as a pawn in the geopolitical aspirations of any other nation, regardless of the reason, hence, my outrage that this has been allowed to happen. My enmity is not reserved solely for fascist-Zionists, but extends to any who do not act in the best interests of this nation, and humanity in general.

Does anyone have a problem with that?

[userdave2061]

14. 9/11 was used as a pretext to launch a final onslaught on the Palestinians

Other then thousands Palestinians dancing and cheering on their streets over the death of thousands of Americans I don't see how they can be blamed for 9/11.

[DuctapeFatwa]

24. It's composed of a cabal of scumbag criminals

None of them minds using anything,political or religious beliefs, cheap fear exploitation, whatever stuffs their pockets.

[Darranar]

25. Excellent point.

n/t