Israel Upset Pope Did Not Condemn Attacks

[sabra]

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http://www.tuscaloosanews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050725/API/507250752&cachetime=3&template=dateline

Israel Upset Pope Did Not Condemn Attacks

The Associated Press

The Vatican envoy to Israel was summoned to the Foreign Ministry on Monday as Israel expressed its outrage that Pope Benedict XVI failed to condemn terror attacks against Israelis.

On Sunday, the pontiff prayed for God to stop the "murderous hand" of terrorists. He made the noontime blessing from his Alpine retreat in Italy's northwestern Valle d'Aosta region, where he is vacationing.

Benedict referred to the recent "abhorrent terrorist attacks" in Egypt, Britain, Turkey and Iraq but did not mention attacks in Israel.

"The pope deliberately failed to condemn the terrible terror attack that occurred in Israel last week," a Foreign Ministry statement said.

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[H5N1]

1. that is certainly interesting

one might even call it even-handed

[Behind the Aegis]

2. Or bigoted!

[Mairead]

5. Would you have been okay if he'd condemned Israeli terrorism too?

[Behind the Aegis]

6. He intentionally (?) left out Israeli victims.

I think that says a lot.

[LivingInTheBubble]

14. Spot the difference

The israelis are an occupying force.
All the other incidents involve deaths of people who live and have always lived there.

I do wish nobody died except for natural causes but if you occupy another country what do you expect.

[Behind the Aegis]

15. How is that a difference?!

The British are also an occupying force...many times over. The five murdered in Israel were all natives of Israel...two of them were teen-agers who always lived there!

But if you occupy another country, what do you expect? I guess the bombings were expected, albeit tragic?

[LivingInTheBubble]

20. The british are occupying london?

Gee I hope the Roman Empire don't start bombing us...

[Behind the Aegis]

23. Iraq

The people killed were inside Israel proper...unless you are meaning all of Israel is occupied territory.

On Edit: Are you saying Netanya is 'occupied?'

[LivingInTheBubble]

24. Iraq?

What about Iraq, the pope condemned attacks there didnt he and the people killed were iraqis not brits.

Yes I think all of Palestine is occupied to one degree or another.

[Behind the Aegis]

25. ?!?!

Britain is currently occupying Iraq along with the US. So, by your logic, shouldn't he have withheld from mentioning Britain since it is also an occupier?

I hate to break the news to you, Israel is a real country and not an occupied country! It has occupied several border areas, one which is currently disengaging from. The idea that all of Israel is occupied is...

[LivingInTheBubble]

57. At least read my posts

in israel an occupying force suffered the deaths. Everywhere that was mentioned involved the deaths of a non occupying force.

Whether or not israelis have a valid claim to that land after squatting on it for 50 years is another topic of discussion.

[Behind the Aegis]

58. what?!

Five civilians are part of the occupying force?! I am sure teenage friends Rachel Ben Abu and Nofar Horvitz, Yulia Weltshin, 31, and
Anna Lifshitz, 50, and the other appreciate your justifying their deaths as a result of occupation. Why are their 5 lives worth less than those killed in Britain, Iraq, Palestine, or anywhere terrorists kill innocents?! Are their deaths, somehow less tragic?

[Colorado Blue]

63. Israel is NOT "occupied "palestine". Get real. And for your

information Jewish people were the original inhabitants of this land and have lived there continuously long before there was an "arab" or "muslim" identity.

Similarly Jewish people lived throughout the Middle East since before the Diaspora, until 1948-1967 approximately, when those communities were expelled - some 900,000 people.

[Mairead]

18. Yes, but would you have been okay if he'd condemned Israeli terrorism too?

[Behind the Aegis]

22. What does that matter? How is that germane?

And yes...if he were condemning terrorist attacks.

[Jim Sagle]

68. There ain't no such thing, podner.

[Stray Roots]

26. How would you know he intentionally left out Israeli victims.

.

[Behind the Aegis]

27. Thus the (?).

What we do know is he left out the Israeli vicitms, which seems to be "understandable" to some.

[Stray Roots]

29. We only have the over the top Israeli representatvie making

the claim that it was intentional. I don't think this follows.

[Behind the Aegis]

32. How do you know it wasn't?

You know more know it was unintentional, then he knows it was.

[Stray Roots]

45. If the Israeli representitive doesn't have esp he is over the

top!

[Patty Diana]

3. Well just look at it this way, he did condemn Harry Potter, so he

must be working. Harry Potter has a higher priority on his FASCIST agenda than Terrorism___him and fuckface ought to get together on their shit. It all goes to show you what a sham this war a terrah really is.

[Bridget Burke]

21. He didn't condemn Harry Potter...

Long before he became Pope, he did defend a writer who was critical of the books.

I don't agree with him about the silly Potter books, but they were hardly a priority for him.

[VegasWolf]

66. Sure he did, in his letter of support to Gabriele Kuby he said;

"It is good, that you enlighten people about Harry Potter, because those are subtle seductions, which act unnoticed and by this deeply distort Christianity in the soul, before it can grow properly," wrote Cardinal Ratzinger.

In addition,
<snip>
The most prominent Potter critic in North America, Catholic novelist and painter Michael O'Brien commented to LifeSiteNews.com on the "judgement" of now-Pope Benedict saying, "This discernment on the part of Benedict XVI reveals the Holy Father's depth and wide ranging gifts of spiritual discernment." O'Brien, author of a book dealing with fantasy literature for children added, "it is consistent with many of the statements he's been making since his election to the Chair of Peter, indeed for the past 20 years - a probing accurate read of the massing spiritual warfare that is moving to a new level of struggle in western civilization. He is a man in whom a prodigious intellect is integrated with great spiritual gifts. He is the father of the universal church and we would do well to listen to him."
</snip>

In other words this pope thinks that books like Potter can lead
to the gateway of the occult for "weak minds".

[Kelvin Mace]

4. The guy is a former member of the Hitler Youth

why are they surprised?

[sabbat hunter]

7. well to his defense

any male in germany under hitler joined the hitler youth, didnt really have much choice in the matter.

[Kelvin Mace]

55. He had the same choice anyone has when confronted

with the choice of engaging in evil or not.

Lord knows this jackass makes speeches about it all the time. I am just judging him by his own rules.

Also, I have yet to hear him disavow his membership. He just used the tired excuse that it was "required", but never expresses any sorrow or regret.

Also, he is an avid supporter of fascist ideology in the Catholic Church. I addressed the whole issue here if you are interested:

http://www.thoughtcrimes.org/mt/archives/002185.html

I understand your point, but Pope Rat is very sympathetic to Hitler's views.

[centristo]

73. i'd be amazed

if you consistently made the right moral decisions when you were 8 years old, or even 15 for that matter. There are consequences for following one's moral compass under fascism.

[PurityOfEssence]

8. The status quo: Israel is offended, and the Vatican is offensive

In these days of turmoil, it's nice to know we can depend on some constants.

[Scurrilous]

9. Another attack...

...the Pope failed to condemn:


Train Explosion Kills One in Dagestan

http://www.moscowtimes.ru/stories/2005/07/25/013.html

@#$%& Nazi!

[Skidmore]

10. Lord, save us from

religious leaders and their followers.

[lumpy]

11. Israeli leadership has no

credibility. Neither does the Pope.

[Jim Sagle]

69. It all depends on where you stand.

[DemBones DemBones]

12. There were attacks in Israel last week? I didn't know,

maybe Papa Bene didn't know, either. Or maybe he figured it was a war zone; he didn't mention Iraq or Afghanistan, either.

[Behind the Aegis]

13. Yes...five innocents were killed.

However, I guess most here were not all that interested. Of course, we don't know how many clicked to read the article, but the first post, http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1621381 only elicited 8 comments, of which two were updates. The following two threads (updates) had not comments...http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1621561 and http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1624701.

[Stray Roots]

30. I doubt the pope knew about it

The media paid more attention to the London bombings.

[Behind the Aegis]

33. How would you know that?

It was world news, I am sure he did know. But, then it is only specultation on both our parts.

[Stray Roots]

36. There for to claim he intentionally left out the Israelis

is mere speculation.

[Behind the Aegis]

37. Yes, but still true, nonetheless.

[Stray Roots]

40. It's true he intentionally left them out?

Ok whatever? There is a reason nobody pays any attention to news in IP or wants to participate there.

[Behind the Aegis]

42. Read it again!

I said "Yes" it is unknown if deliberate, but fact that he did leave them out. And, I am very aware why "There is a reason nobody pays any attention to news in IP or wants to participate there.;" most are un- or undereducated about the situation.

[Jim Sagle]

70. I'm glad no one wants to participate there. The world is a better place

without that kind of participation. :puke:

[NJmaverick]

44. They happened 10 days ago

not last week.

[Behind the Aegis]

46. So he should have known.

[goforit]

16. The trouble makers.......Israel.

Hiding out while instigating others to do their dirty work.

What schmucks!!!

[Behind the Aegis]

17. What the hell is that supposed to mean?!

[Name removed]

65. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[MrTriumph]

19. Israel Spokesmen on BBC TV on 7-7

Just as Israel had spokesmen on American TV immediately after 9-11 proclaiming kinship with those killed, Israel had spokesmen on BBC television on 7-7.

[Stray Roots]

28. I don't like Benedict, but the idea that because he

didn't include the Israel, that this means that he didn't include them deliberately sounds like paranoia to me. The biggest attacks in recent weeks haven't been on Israelis. So he just mentioned the recent attacks. This is really silly, and it really make Israelis look like a bunch of hysterics!

[Behind the Aegis]

31. Netanya was a recent attack!

But, it seems that many here don't really care that innocent Israelis died and that is disgusting. It is not silly, it is a slight.

[Stray Roots]

34. Nobody paid as much attention to the second London bombing

as the first because iti didn't kill as many people. The media determines what gets attention and what doesn't. It is still over the top to claim some sort of conspiracy on the part of the pope not to mention Israelis.

[Behind the Aegis]

35. The second bombing didn't kill ANYONE.

The attack in Netanya killed 5, but I guess it doesn't matter since they were Israelis.

[Stray Roots]

38. ok the pope intentionally left them out

rolling eye1

[Behind the Aegis]

39. Much like many here!

[Stray Roots]

41. God I hope the mods drown this thread in the crazy IP dungeon

ASAP!

[Behind the Aegis]

43. Why? It has nothing to do with IP.

[goforit]

54. paranoid hysterics is right.

[Jim Sagle]

72. Wrong!

[centristo]

74. agreed

The whole things is really silly. Although when I step back and think about it, the entire I/P conflict is inherently childish and ridiculously silly. But anyway I think many Israelis are a little jumpy because Benedict has not made any comments whatsoever on the I/P Conflict. I think they just want an acknowledgmenmt that they are fighting the same enemy, namely those who honor death above life.

[Endangered Specie]

47. Well, I doubt the pope condemns everytime the Isreali

military slaughters innocents, so it balances out :sarcasm:

[Behind the Aegis]

48. He wasn't talking about military actions...

...he was taking about terrorism. Seems that point is lost on many.

[Bridget Burke]

49. So, it's OK when uniformed military kill innocents.

Most of us "get" your point.

[Behind the Aegis]

50. Apparently not

I didn't say or imply it was OK. What the discussion is about is terrorism, not military actions. But, your point is also received.

[Endangered Specie]

53. Its very possible for a military to commit terrorism is it not?

justification as "military actions" notwithstanding, though I could name some organizations that have used similar justification.

[Jim Sagle]

71. Yes it's possible for the military to commit terrorism.

Israel's military doesn't. Do try to keep up.

[Colorado Blue]

64. No kidding. I think we're talking to walls here though. nt

[Scurrilous]

51. Well...

...the Pope didn't condemn this terrorist attack:

Right-wing 'bomb' in Jerusalem

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3111281,00.html



Nor did he condemn this one:

Another fake bomb found

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3114905,00.html


What's up w/ that?

[Behind the Aegis]

52. Of which none were killed.

It seems he was addressing attacks that included victims.

[daleo]

56. Bush forgot Canada regarding helping on Sept 11

He rhymed off a list of countries and forgot us. We never knew if it was a deliberate snub, of just a stupid omission. I suppose this has a somewhat similar feel.

[Behind the Aegis]

59. It is similar.

But, know that many of us did not and will not forget what the Canadians did for us that day! Just as some of us will not forget that the 5 killed in Netyana were just as innocent as others killed at the hands of terrorists.

[daleo]

60. I know the vast majority of Americans didn't want to snub Canada

I believe the vast majority of us are also dismayed by all of the bloodshed in the middle east.

[DanCa]

61. Hey Pope - Who Would Jesus Bomb? (nt)

[Name removed]

62. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Coastie for Truth]

67. Remember the "Prayer For The Czar" in "Fiddler On The Roof"

There's a similar one for the Pope

May God Bless and Keep The Pope
Far far away from me

(seriously, I am not anti-Catholic, my daughter in law and grand child are Roman Catholics, and I am 1/8 Catholic; nor do I personally dislike the Pope as a human being, the Pope has two cats and I have a cat)

[Tinoire]

75. Oh waaaaah

:cry: :cry: :cry:

Occupy a country, oppress an entire people as you bull-doze their homes to steal their land, thieir orchards, their water and then whine that no one recognizes you as the victim.

Waaaaah. The day the 3 countries in the barbaric Axis of Evil want to rejoin civilized society, they know what to do. Until then, waaaah.

Bush & Blair are outraged they're not being recognized as poor victims of terrorism too. Waaaah.

[Behind the Aegis]

76. Boo hoo, indeed.

I am sure teenage friends Rachel Ben Abu and Nofar Horvitz, Yulia Weltshin, 31, and Anna Lifshitz, 50, and the other appreciate your justifying their deaths as a result of occupation. Because they are Israelis their deaths are meaningless, even a source for mockery.