Diary of a settler - 'I believe God wants us here'

[Englander]

Monday August 15, 2005
The Guardian

Haim Gross, 30, has lived in Morag, a religious-ideological settlement
of about 40 families in the far south of the Gaza Strip, for five
years. Morag is expected to be one of the first colonies to be
evacuated. A security officer for the settlement, with four children
ranging in age from one to seven, Mr Gross will be regularly updating
readers on the unfolding situation

We're planning on staying. This is Jewish land. The settlement's been here for 17 years; people have been growing stuff and planting here all those years. We believe that this is our land and we're not going to leave.

We've prepared a lot of food so we can stay for a long time. Potatoes, onions, tinned foods, the kinds of food you can survive with if they cut off the electricity. Food that will last a long time. We're also preparing medical equipment in case we have to take care of people here. The police and army may be brutal.

The children understand very well what is going on. My oldest child is seven, the youngest is a year and a half. I myself was seven years old when my oldest brother was murdered in Hebron 22 years ago.

Children who live here are very mature, much more mature than they are in other places. They know what's going on and they understand we might have to have some type of a struggle here. I'm not worried about them. I don't think they will come to any harm.

More at;
Guardian Unlimited

[SteppingRazor]

1. Ah yes -- we're going to jeopardize our lives and our children's because..

the Invisible Cloud Being would want it that way (with apologies to Bartcop)

[H5N1]

2. These children are raised on a steady diet of bigotry and hatred

Nothing could can come from vittles such as these

[Roland99]

3. God sure is awfully pro-Israel and pro-GOP for an omnipresent being

:eyes:

[Burried News]

4. Yes - he wants you in the Milky Way Galaxy. Welcome home and

be at peace with your brothers. As for struggle it was always in the human heart - if you fail to win it there you can not win it anywhere.

[sam sarrha]

5. Damn UN Regulations about occupying lands conquered in war, but then again

what is Zion with out Zionests...:shrug:

how many Palestinians have been shot dead and how many Israelis have been blown up over this violation of international law..

It is about time... I am sorry these people lost their homes due to the politics of an extremist government.. but we are almost there ourselves..

[The_Casual_Observer]

6. "Settler" is such a nice way to refer to illegal squatters

[newyorican]

7. Oh....

you mean the colonists....

Got confused with all of these weasel words for a sec there...

[Colorado Blue]

8. This entire thread has become offensive as all get out.

Since when are other people's religious values, history and heritage a matter for such complete and total disrepect?

We may not agree with Islamic values, for example, but no progressive thinker would dream of sharing such blatant disrespect on a liberal website. I have noticed plenty of har de har hars at the expense of "fundamentalist" Christians and most of all of course, at Jews who happen to believe in the biblical and historic aspect of their heritage.

This is intolerant, shamefully so. Disagreeing with others is fine but no progressive should lose sight of the fundamental principle of democracy: TOLERANCE. Respect for others, attempts to empathise with and understand that which makes them unique and different from us, is basic. Otherwise we wind up endorsing Stalinist values, which argue against individuality and the value of cultural heritage.

I myself am irreligious and have tended to dismiss the settlers' values as both outdated and somewhat irrational. However, given the fact that Christian churches are now weighing in on this issue with the full weight of "The Christ" behind them and Islamist preachers, governments and militia groups are even more vehement in declaring THEIR values, why shouldn't the Jewish religious heritage and point of view be accorded at least a modicum of respect?

[Burried News]

9. I don't see my post as offensive, I regret that you do.

You want to see the story in religious terms, others see it in purely political terms. I think that is their right. If the country under discussion were France or Spain would their comments be considered anti-christian? I don't think so. Because these countries see themselves as secular states.

On the other hand if it were Saudi Arabia would Moslems think a criticism implied disrespect towards their religion - yes I think they would. Israel has defined itself as a jewish state and so I can see your point. But many writers reject that as a possible definition and perhaps their irreverence is meant to communicate that position. I don't know. It is up to them to provide clarification.


All I know is my post was intended to point out that I reject that any specific place on earth is holy and worth killing for to maintain its purity and identity. I also wanted to state that I think one should be introspective and deal with their inner conflicts so as to minimize the tendency to see all evil as external. Thank you for listening - Peace here and in the Middle East.

[pelsar]

10. Colorados point....

was that it appears that the above posts are "making fun" of the settlers religious beliefs...to be honest when i see them on TV, with their interpretation of my religion with the "god given right to cause harm...i find them rather disgusting....

at the sametime i find islamic jihad, etc also quite disgusting in the way they use their religion to mame and kill...what colorados point is, is that if I start calling out that the jihadnikim are a bunch of islamofacist on this site...i'll probably get flamed/warned/banned for "generalizing" or some other version of the "multiculturalism mentatlity"

but for the settlers who also believe in what they are doing....its ok to make demonize their interperation of the religion...if not in mere words in the atmosphere of the above writing...

[Burried News]

11. Thank you. I haven't been here all that long.

I can see what you say happening. These are tense times for us all and we are not always at our best. I appreciate the explanation.

[newyorican]

12. I've seen..

'islamofacist' and 'jihadofascist' used numerous times in this forum. It's a term commonly used by the less enlightened among us. It has not resulted in any banning I am aware of. The most common user still spews Arab bashing rhetoric with the regularity of an Ex-Lax addict to this very day.

[pelsar]

13. my point...exactly

'islamofacist' and 'jihadofascist' used numerous times in this forum. It's a term commonly used by the less enlightened among us.


demonazation of the settlers and their version of judisam falls in to the same catagory...(when using other terms to describe them that are "less than complementary")

[newyorican]

14. Odd...

I thought your point was, "if I start calling out that the jihadnikim are a bunch of islamofacist on this site...i'll probably get flamed/warned/banned for "generalizing" or some other version of the "multiculturalism mentatlity"

It's what you said it was, after all. :shrug:

[TomClash]

17. Few people here are sympathetic to IJ

MSM in the US lambasts them constantly and that often morphs into criticism of all muslims (much to the glee of Daniel Pipes and his ilk). I don't see these settlers getting anywhere near the same treatment.

Actually, I feel sorry for some of these people. They were used as pawns by successive Israeli governments, enticed by cheap land, religious fanaticism and/or subsidies to settle and then they are evicted from their homes and communities. This is difficult to face even with compensation. And of course they are different than other "settlers" - the people in the suburbs crescenting East Jerusalem - you can bet they won't get tossed any time soon, no matter what was once proposed.

[Violet_Crumble]

24. 'My religion'?

I thought you were an atheist, pelsar?

There's nothing at all offensive in calling religious extremist nutters what they are, no matter if they're Islamic, Jewish, Christian, or anything else. Seriously, who gives a rats arse that the religious settlers believe in what they're doing? So do Islamic extremists. Why should the fact that any of them believe in what they're doing give them any respect from us? The only time piling shit on religious extremism gets offensive is when the person doing the piling makes it abundantly clear that they believe the extremism is indicative of the mainstream religion itself....

As for the label 'islamofascist', it was used by one poster on a regular basis, and they were never banned for doing that as far as I know. Strangely enough, even though the term was used on a regular basis, I never once have seen the poster in this thread who claimed offense appear near the many appearances of 'islamofascist' claiming offense for that one. Says a lot, I think...

Violet...

[Darranar]

15. I do not see anything offensive in this thread...

If people's "religious values" make them steal land from other people, there is absolutely nothing wrong with criticizing them for it - any more than there is when people's "religious values" make them condemn gays and lesbians, or Jews for that matter.

There is nothing inherently wrong with declaring one's religious values; there is something inherently wrong with using them as an excuse to violate the rights of other people.

The Dati Leumi crowd should probably pay less attention to various narrow-minded interpretations of Messianic prophecies, and instead re-read relevant ethical teachings in the Tradition. The laws banning stealing from Gentiles apply, for instance.

Certainly some should consider what happened at the end of the First Temple period when the aristocrats decided to oppress and exploit the poor, considering what the recent Israeli governments have been doing to the social safety net.

Isaiah Chapter 1 is wise reading for all sorts of religious fundamentalists, and Isaiah Chapter II has a few especially relevant passages:

2 And it shall come to pass in the end of days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established as the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.

3 And many peoples shall go and say: 'Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and He will teach us of His ways, and we will walk in His paths.' For out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.

So much for the exclusive Jewish right to the land.

[bemildred]

16. Yeah, you don't get a free pass just because you say it's your religion. n

[DixieDem]

18. As a non believer (in ANY religion)...

I totally agree with this!

Sigh! If only we could do away with religion... there could be peace.

[pelsar]

19. free pass....

of course people do....all the time....its just a matter of degrees...and whos doing the interpretation.

i could make a list..but it would be endless...as far as the settlers....they hardly believe they are stealing land..that is somebody elses interpretation of their religion...very "un multicultural of you" As far as they are concerned....its theirs and no sin has been commited.

[bemildred]

20. Yeah, I know, we have Jerry Fallwell, and so on, here.

But I don't have to buy it, and neither does anyone else.
Bush thinks God tells him what to do too, am I supposed to say "OK boss"?

If the rules don't apply to everybody, you need to get new rules, and anytime someone self-designates themselves to have a special dispensation from the deity you have to question the purity of their motives.

How are you doing? Are you in the middle of this, or watching from a safe distance?

[pelsar]

21. nor do i

buy into it...and somewhere there is a line that has to be drawn....its just always a bit fuzzy,

i'm not involved in this, which is actually fine with me...i really dont like facing off with fanatical 16yr olds

[bemildred]

23. Good. Hang in there. nt

[tucoramirez2005]

22. These Palestinian teens aren't dying

because they think God disapproves.