Are Chemtrails dangerous?

[serryjw]

quote......
Lab report reveals much more

Last May a family in Iowa contacted the office of Sen. Tom Harkin (D-IA) to report the constant criss-crossing of "chemtrails" in the sky above their neighborhood. They received back from the senator’s office a General Accounting Office (GAO) report on "military chaff" and the material safety data sheet for aluminum-coated fiberglass fibers being spread—seven days a week for several hours each day—in the skies above their home.
snip...
Regardless, some members of this family are very sick. On May 23, after a hard rain the day before, they a noticed glittering substance and a pinkish-colored powder substance on the roof of their house. They then noticed the glittering substance on many surfaces, even the dashboard of the family car. Both substances were collected and sent to a lab for analysis.

Among the substances found to be in the samples were several that should simply not be there:

6 bacteria, including anthrax and pneumonia

9 chemicals including acetylcholine chloride

26 heavy metals including arsenic, gold, lead,mercury, silver, uranium and zinc

4 molds and fungi

7 viruses

2 cancers

2 vaccines

2 sedatives

end quote...
http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20060704.htm

[WindRavenX]

1. not this bs

:eyes:

[Nozebro]

35. Well, it IS related to 9/11 research.

In a round about way. If you don't really like all the talk about how 9/11 was a False Flag operation, and you feel your cause would be better served by focusing attention away from the OCT lies, then in that sense it IS related to 9/11 research.

[originalpckelly]

2. Last time I checked they were called condensation trails...

con-trails, and they had nothing to do with chemicals. Aside from the pollutants in the exhaust of the jet engine, which are green house gases, the con-trails are nothing more than water vapor.

In conditions with appropriate humidity, they will form. They (again aside from the green house gases) are no more harmless than a cloud.

In fact, if you live in a cool environment, during winter you can form your own condensation trails by exhaling. That is the white "steam" that comes out of our mouths.

The science behind this is highly interesting, the fact that you a human being can produce the same thing as a jet flying fast and high, is quite amazing.

In addition to that, if there were any aluminum-coated fiberglass fibers, they would cause damage to the engine. (Even though most commercial airliner engine are designed to ingest a large bird, they probably could not hold up to the immense wear and tear of those sorts of fibers traveling through the engine on a regular basis.)

[FoxOnTheRun]

3. There is this website

http://www.carnicom.com/contrails.htm

I heard that there is a law in the US which allows the gov to conduct tests without the knowledge of their own people. But can't remember the Bill number


But as Bush said in this Washington Post article:

Asked by Woodward how history would judge the war, Bush replied: "History. We don't know. We'll all be dead."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17347-2004Apr16.html

What an optimistic president

[Sinti]

4. Relax, condensation trails from planes are the least of your worries

Here in Idaho they've also been spraying for mosquitoes, because of West Nile virus. We had a plane (crop duster) go over our house again and again the other night, and we all felt sick the next day, probably because of what he was spraying. But, when military jets are going over your home, they're usually practicing, or going somewhere, they're not spraying you with evil things. If they wanted to poison you, they'd put it in the water. ;)

Chemtrails are kind of like UFOs, a little fact, a lot of fear... they don't have to put crap that can kill you in the air, it's already there.


Edited to clarify:

We figure the crop duster style plane was spraying for mosquitoes.

[FoxOnTheRun]

7. Idaho, nice newspaper

Chemtrails and Terror in the Age of Nuclear War

by Amy Worthington

North America is now suffering its seventh year of conspicuous and dangerous aerosol and electromagnetic operations conducted by the U.S. government under the guise of national security. Concerned citizens watch in fear as military tankers discolor the skies with toxic chemicals that morph into synthetic clouds.

We continually witness bizarre meteorological occurrences as powerful electromagnetic devices manipulate both the jet stream and individual storm fronts to create artificial weather and climatic conditions. Black operations projects embedded within these aerosol missions are documented to sicken and disorient select populations with biological test agents and psychotronic mind/mood control technologies.

Part of what is happening in the atmosphere above us involves the Pentagon’s secret space weapons program, designed for strategic, operational and tactical levels of war. NASA missions will soon be transferred to Pentagon control.1 The Air Force Space Command declares that, in order to monitor and shape world events, it must fight intense, decisive wars with great precision from space.2 Air Force Secretary James G. Roche has stated: "Space capabilities are integrated with, and affect every link in the kill chain."3

A glimpse into new death technologies under construction4 is in legislation introduced by Ohio Congressman Dennis Kucinch. His unsuccessful Space Preservation Act of 2001 was intended to ban space deployment of:

* electronic, psychotronic and information weaponry

* high altitude ultra low frequency weapons

* plasma, electromagnetic, sonic and ultrasonic weapons

* laser weapons

* strategic, theater, tactical or extraterrestrial weapons

* chemical biological, environmental climate or tectonic weapons

* chemtrails (this item was stricken from a later version, suggesting duress)

In their quest to remain top dog in the kill chain, the purveyors of perpetual war have deliberately dimmed earth’s life-giving sunlight5 and reduced atmospheric visibility6 with lung-clogging particulates and polymers. This ecological terrorism has severely compromised public health, according to thousands of testimonials. Years of mass appeals to legislators, media and military officials for information, and for cessation of catastrophic atmospheric degradation, have fallen on deaf bureaucratic ears. Public awareness of what befalls us remains as murky as our skies because those "in the know" are muzzled by national secrecy laws and Americans have no authority to challenge matters of national security. Left to gather clues, we know this much so far:

http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20040501.htm
or
http://www.proliberty.com/observer/20060504.htm

[TheWraith]

32. Boy, talk about some ridiculous bullshit paranoia.

I won't even bother going through it in detail, since pretty much every word in it is a complete and total lie. Lines like this pretty much sum it up:

"In their quest to remain top dog in the kill chain, the purveyors of perpetual war have deliberately dimmed earth’s life-giving sunlight5 and reduced atmospheric visibility6 with lung-clogging particulates and polymers."

Only the most obtusely tin-foil laden paranoids could seriously look at this and not see it for what it is--a Cassandra complex just shy of hospitalization level, backed up by completely bogus pseudoscience with no rational basis whatsoever.

[Magical]

24. Have you read Horowitz's Books ?

Death in the Air is a well-researched book covering West Nile and other crap that has suddenly appeared in our world.

Malathion, one of the insecticides used, is a nasty organophosphate.
Organophosphates are similar to nerve gas and attack the nervous system.
Spraying that in a populated area is totally irresponsible.
Ain't freedom grand ?

[Sinti]

42. Haven't read them

I do know both of us that were sitting in the backyard when the crop duster went over got sick, sick. Couldn't breathe, muscle pains, weak as can be, totally sapped. It happened last Thursday, I believe, we're feeling better, but we still haven't recovered fully. It was kind of late in the evening, maybe they figured nobody would be outside... O8)

Hell, I can't even use DEET insect repellents, makes me sick for hours - can't move or think or anything.

[truthmover]

5. Wrong forum

If you are interested in government experiments on the public, there are many credible sources for this information, and none of them mention "chemtrails". There are numerous books and websites on the subject that tell horrifying stories of the government exploiting the incarcerated, elderly, insane, disabled, and children, to run hazardous medical and military experiments. Some of them involved the arial spraying of biological agents, so I suppose there is a precendent. While I've never met anyone educated who takes "chemtrails" seriously, and find everything on the web unscientific, I'm certainly open to the possibility that its was at least originally based on something concrete. .

[JackRiddler]

6. This GAO report...

Harkin's office. These are things one can follow up on. Is this report online?

[Magical]

8. Hate to tell you, but...

Chemtrails are real.
Contrails don't last more than 2 minutes.
These things last all day.

Watch this video...its 4 parts.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3617274765006240&q=chemtrails&hl=en

Read Len Horowitz's book...Death in the Air

[greyl]

9. "Contrails don't last more than 2 minutes."

That statement is total bullshit.

Can you explain the difference between a contrail and a cloud for me?

[Magical]

11. Nice Try

It is NOT bullshit.
Do some research and you'll see I'm right.
I've researched it extensively.

Did you watch the video?

I'm not gonna hold your hand.
Go ahead and stay in ignorance if you please. Your choice.

[greyl]

14. lol. Think back....

Where did you first hear the bullshit statement that contrails last less than 2 hours? I'd love it if you could answer that for me. I predict it was from a source promoting the idea of chemtrails.

In the meantime, here's some helpful info and links to supplement your already extensive research:

What type of contrail is most interesting to scientists?

Scientists are most interested in persistent contrails because they form long-lasting and sometimes extensive clouds that would not normally have formed in the atmosphere. Persistent contrails can last for hours to days, and spread over thousands of square kilometers, becoming indistinguishable from naturally occurring cirrus clouds. Scientists are concerned about contrails because predicted increases in air-traffic could result in a continued increase in cloud cover. Knowing when and where contrails form is key to determining their contribution to cirrus cloud cover and their effect on the energy balance. Thus, collecting information on short-lived contrails is also of interest.
http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/GLOBE/importance.html

http://asd-www.larc.nasa.gov/GLOBE/
http://www.contrails.nl/

[Magical]

15. Airline Pilots

My father in law flew for United for 35 years.
I think he'd know about contrails.
And I've read statements from other airline pilots.

Government sources are highly suspect in this case.

[greyl]

18. So, the contrails that anyone can see which last more than 2 hours

aren't contrails, they're chemtrails? Got it.

Sorry, but the statement is bullshit. Contrails are all over the fucking planet, and the most basic of research will show you that they can last very much longer than 2 hours.

You never described the difference between a contrail and a cloud for me, did you? Why not?

[Magical]

20. You want a whole weather lesson ?

I could tell you, but you'll have to do your own research, which you are obviously unwilling to do.
End of discussion.

[greyl]

26. Please, spare me.

It's clear that you're unable to support your bullshit statement that "contrails last less than 2 hours".
Btw, I don't think there was a discussion for you to end.

As yet, I have zero reason to take your posts on this matter seriously.

[OldSiouxWarrior]

10. Anything sprayed from 7 miles above you house will land in the next state.

Every claim made chemtrail believers is easily debunked by anyone with even a small knowledge of weather and basic physics. Chemtrails are in the same category as UFO's.

[Magical]

12. Is that so...

Here's a video for your education...
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1332178607299698024&q=chemtrails&hl=en

[OldSiouxWarrior]

13. I am not going to waste an hour watching an idiotic CT.

If you want to believe it - go ahead. I know better.

I won't bother with it for the same reason that I won't bother with flat earth websites, UFOs, ghosts & goblins, fortune telling, palm reading, etc. It is all bunk.

[Magical]

16. Your choice, but....

Don't act like an authority, if you've done no research.
Blanket statements carry little weight.
I thought they were bullshit myself, for a long time, UNTIL, I started doing alot of research.

[AZCat]

17. I'll tell you what...

Why don't you study up on psychrometrics and get back to me when you've finished learning - then we can have a legitimate discussion. Until then you don't have the technical framework to have such a discussion and, I'm sorry to say, your statements carry little weight.

[Magical]

21. Did you watch the Video ?

No? What, don't want to waste your time with facts ?
Psychrometrics? Might want to learn how to spell.

[AZCat]

22. And how would you spell it?

More importantly, do you know what it is?

It's okay if you don't - it's full of those "facts" things that apparently I don't want to waste my time with.

[AZCat]

23. If you're having difficulty...

here's a handy-dandy reference chart. Let me know what parts you don't understand - I'll try to explain in laypersons terms.

[Magical]

25. Always willing to learn something new

Educate me.

[AZCat]

27. You're probably better off looking for a basic text on thermodynamics.

I can explain how to read and interpret a psychrometric chart, but it's important to understand the science behind the construction of the chart - what these lines really mean. That said, I'll do my best to get the gist across.

AZCat's Primer on Psych Charts
The psychrometric chart (or "psych chart") is a commonly-used tool by many engineers in the Heating, Ventilation and Air Conditioning (HVAC) industry.

Air is capable of containing a certain amount of moisture (or "water vapor"), depending on the ambient temperature and pressure. The amount of moisture stored per unit of air is represented on the psych chart, along with the various properties of air that determine both the capacity and the "fullness" of the air.


These properties include:
Dry Bulb Temperature: The temperature measured by a regular thermometer.
Wet Bulb Temperature: This one's a little more complicated and we'll skip it for now - it's not necessary.
Relative Humidity: This is the "fullness" of the air. Air at 0% relative humidity has no water vapor, while air at 100% relative humidity cannot hold any more water vapor - it is saturated.
Humidity Ratio: This is a per unit measure of how much water vapor is actually in the air.
Specific Volume: The inverse of the density of the air.
Enthalpy: Way complicated - we're definitely skipping this.


It may not be obvious at first that the relative humidity can change while the humidity ratio stays the same, but a moment's consideration will help. Think of what happens when moist air gets cold - you get dew (or "condensation") all over the ground (and probably your car). The capacity of the air is dependent on dry bulb temperature so when it gets colder the capacity decreases. Since the actual amount of moisture per unit of air stays the same, this amount occupies a larger percentage of the capacity - the relative humidity increases. When the relative humidity reaches 100%, any decrease in dry bulb temperature results in water leaving the air in liquid form - a decrease in humidity ratio.

This is demonstrated on the psych chart by moving horizontally to the left. As you move, you start crossing the curved relative humidity lines until you reach the 100% relative humidity (or saturation) line.

The beauty of this is that you can use the chart to determine what happens to air when certain changes occur in its properties (such as heating and cooling). The only property that plays a significant role that isn't represented here is altitude (or pressure - they're the same thing as far as we're concerned). Since HVAC work is usually done in conditions where changes in altitude are negligible, this is left out (because it immensely complicates things). If you want to incorporate air pressure, you'll need to study the subject some more and learn about the equations used to generate all these lines.


I hope this helps! :)

[greyl]

28. Interesting, thanks for the education. :) nt

[greyl]

19. That's one of the most popular and vapid statements

offered by those who can't provide justification or evidence for their prior statements.
I think Invincible Ignorance is at work.

[TheWraith]

34. You're the one making false blanket statements.

Contrails can form or not form, or persist anywhere from minutes to hours, depending on atmospheric conditions. If anyone told you differently, they're mistaken. Do you really think that every jet engine in America has somehow been secretly fitted with sprayers and tanks for the production of "chemtrails"? If you look carefully, you'll see that most long-lasting contrails formed by civilian airliners. Or you could charter a jet yourself, take it up to 30,000 feet or so, and make all the contrails you like.

[Name removed]

37. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[FoxOnTheRun]

38. Owning the weather 2025 not 2020

http://www.au.af.mil/au/2025/volume3/chap15/v3c15-1.htm

[Magical]

39. Thanks, fixed....nt

[TheWraith]

41. I've seen the videos. They're a lot of crap.

Typical conspiracy theory material, taking something that they don't understand and making it into something sinister.

"Chemtrails are EXTENSIVELY documented on various sites. The evidence is clear."

Actually, no, there's no "evidence" in any real sense. There's a lot of paranoia, and plenty of sites which claim knowledge of "chemtrails" right alongside UFOs and cloaking devices. But a perponderance of the evidence shows that it's mostly hearsay, speculation, scientifically illiterate claims, and misinterpretations.

"Patents have been issued for spraying metallic oxides to shield the earth from solar radiation."

I suspect that that patent will be invalidated on the grounds of prior art. Read the novella "Critical Difference" by Murray Leinster. And in case you don't know, actually doing something or being able to do something is not neccessary to file for a patent. You could patent interstellar travel right now--that doesn't mean you can do it.

"Tests have confirmed the presence of high levels of aluminum and barium in rainwater and HEPA filters."

Which proves what other than the fact that the environment is polluted? That samples taken in polluted areas yield chemicals? You're making an unfounded sinister assertion when there's a simple and obvious answer.

"There may or may not be other nefarious reasons for chemtrails."

Oh, here we go.

"Metallic oxides, just happen to allow viewing of the electromagnetic fields generated by atmospheric heaters such as HAARP."

Ah, HAARP, the billion dollar boondoggle of Ted Stevens and every tin-foil-hatter's favorite plaything.

"The pentagon has said it wants to own the weather by 2025."

And they're not going to get their wish. Weather control is way the hell beyond modern technology and will remain so for a good long time. I'm sure the Pentagon also thought that they would have atomic-powered airplanes by the 1950s, but it didn't work out that way.

Answer me this simple question: Do you really believe that every jet engine in America, and indeed the world, is secretly fitted with sprayers and tanks to release some nefarious chemical cocktail? And if not, how do you explain the long-lasting contrails formed by commercial jets?

[Magical]

43. Looks like you've made up YOUR mind

That's fine with me.

Too bad you can't refute any of the evidence with anything other than unfounded opinion and use of 'mental screens' designed to get people to discount one fact by associating it with other unrelated 'tinfoil' 'conspiracy theories'. The term 'conspiracy theory' is one such mental screen, designed specifically to get people to 'quit thinking' as though any controversy that is applied to, automatically discounts it.

If you researched this as well as you claim, you'd understand that some planes put out short-lived contrails and some are putting out long-lasting particulate chemtrails, that can be TURNED ON AND OFF. As to the exact means how this is done, it may be done thru the jet engines, but it may also be done thru specific auxilliary spray equipment.

As to other nefarious intent, I said specifically, there MAY or MAY NOT be other intent, therefore I did not imply either way. It MAY be that this is simply an attempt to combat global warming or other 'intended beneficial' outcome.

[AZCat]

48. How's the psychrometrics studying going?

Perhaps it can help you explain how these "long-lasting particulate chemtrails" are created.

[Magical]

52. Pretty Well, Thanks

I apologize for my original comment regarding your spelling. I was incorrect. I thought you were referring to 'psychometry' and implying some sort of paranormal connection. In fact, while I have a general understanding of the physics of moisture formation/condensation/dissipation and its dependence on temperature, pressure, humidity, etc, I had never actually heard the term 'psychrometric'.

Here is a study done using the scientific method.
http://www.chemtrailcentral.com/report.shtml

My original statement that 'Contrails don't last more than two minutes', should have actually been 'From what I have read, contrails don't TYPICALLY last more than two minutes'. This study backs that up, where only one out of over 50 contrails studied from known commercial jets, lasted more than 2 minutes, and 37 out of the 53 observed flights had contrails lasting less than 30 seconds.

You are free to come to your own conclusions, we just may not agree.

I am always open to reasoned, rational, substantiated debate and would much RATHER be concluding that there is nothing to this whole issue, as the implications are not very encouraging either in terms of geo-engineering to solve a severe climate change problem or other unknown objectives.

[TheWraith]

53. What evidence? Show me some evidence.

"Too bad you can't refute any of the evidence"

What evidence? A handful of people who think that because they know what contrails are supposed to do, anything that doesn't conform to that understanding must be a conspiracy? Some reports of sticky stuff showing up on cars? Where I'm from, we call that pollen. You're claiming that there's a mountain of evidence, but refusing to let anyone actually see it, and when they point that out, you make some feeble excuse to the effect that I don't want to know the truth.

"The term 'conspiracy theory' is one such mental screen, designed specifically to get people to 'quit thinking' as though any controversy that is applied to, automatically discounts it."

No, the term 'conspiracy theory' refers to an outlandish claim nestled within a web of pseudo-facts, inaccurate claims, and arguing techniques that claim absolute proof from hearsay and supposition.

"If you researched this as well as you claim, you'd understand that some planes put out short-lived contrails and some are putting out long-lasting particulate chemtrails, that can be TURNED ON AND OFF."

Uh huh. And where, pray tell, does this information come from? Have you ever seen such a system? Documentation on it? Photos of it? Or is this claim another one that's based entirely on hearsay? You pretend like this is a honest-to-god fact, but when it comes right down to it you have no proof other than someone saying "this is the way it is."

And what of the long-lasting contrails which come from civilian aircraft, hmm? And how is it that on some days with favorable conditions, just about every aircraft at altitude happens to form a "chemtrail" while other days none of them do? Could it be that the defining factor isn't the trail itself, but the weather at that altitude?

[Magical]

55. Your RIght

Everything you say is right, at least in your mind.

Or perhaps you don't really believe it, but just want to discredit. I suspect it is more the latter. What is your keen interest in discrediting this matter? Why exactly are you so attached to what is written about this subject? Are you paid to post here ?

The term 'conspiracy theory' is used to automatically imply:
1) No conspiracies exist, which is obviously false.
2) That whatever it is applied to is false, which is obviously untrue (see 1)
3) Anyone holding a particular belief is misguided, misinformed, or crazy. (see 1)

I don't allow other people to define my reality or tell me what I think, how to think, or what to feel and I don't insist others believe as I do.

I've already provided links to sources of patents, government reports about owning the weather, photos, lab reports, and interviews. If you want to discount it all as BS, that's your right. I've also said people should make up their own mind.

How about you prove to me that chemtrails don't exist, since you're so thoroughly convinced ?
Oh, no can do? Didn't think so.

[rman]

29. At least we now know that it's not condensation trails,

contrary to what many of the chemtrail skeptics have been claiming.

It's easy enough to mistake one for the other, but now there's an admission by officials that indeed they are 'spreading stuff' rather than it simply being contrails.

[greyl]

30. No.

Chaff is much different, and is not what the chemtrail fans are freaking out about when they see contrails.
Chemtrails are a newish hysterical myth that has people denying the most basic facts about contrails. As admitted above.

[rman]

31. Chaff is stuff they're spreading, not condensation trails.

But (in thise case) looks like condensation trails.
There's no "no" about it.

[greyl]

33. I'm talking about the hysteria surrounding "chemtrails"

which causes people to see contrails and think that they are chemtrails.

After Mt.St.Helens erupted, someone who lived in the fallout region noticed that their windshield was pitted, called a radio station talk show, and made an insurance claim. Soon, hundreds of people were finding pits in their windshield and making insurance claims that something from the eruption caused the pits. It was a bit of hysteria.
All windshields get pitted from normal driving, but nobody had noticed them until it was suggested to look for them and blame an erroneous cause.

[rman]

44. I know, but that's not what i am talking about

[greyl]

46. Right, you're talking about chaff being

the explanation for chemtrails. You are incorrect.

[TheWraith]

36. You're incorrect.

Chaff is a small bundle of metal and plastic fibers or strips designed to distract radar-guided missiles. There's no way that you could possibly see chaff released from an aircraft at altitude, and it certainly wouldn't look like a condensation trail.

[rman]

45. Which part of the OP did you not understand?

This perhaps?

"They received back from the senator’s office a General Accounting Office (GAO) report on "military chaff" and the material safety data sheet for aluminum-coated fiberglass fibers being spread—seven days a week for several hours each day—in the skies above their home."

[AZCat]

47. Perhaps it was the part...

where the article failed to answer some basic questions.

Who is this family?
How did they determine the link between the chaff and the substance sent to the lab?
What lab did the analysis?
Where are the supporting documents for this story?
Why should I believe anything in this article?

[rman]

49. That's a different argument.

Than the argument that my conclusion based on the OP is incorrect.

It is in principal verifiable (and thus rather tricky to lie about) whether or not Sen. Tom Harkin obtained and send out a General Accounting Office report on the matter.

[AZCat]

50. Whoops - sorry.

Posting While Tired...

I think the problem is that while chaff might have actually been released in this area, there is no evidence that it would resemble contrails (or be visible at all). Perhaps for comparison we could find some photos of the bombing raids in WWII - chaff was used during those, although they did not fly at the altitudes of today's commercial aircraft.

[OldSiouxWarrior]

56. WWII chaff was different.

For the WWII stuff, think of tin foil gum wrappers. It was very thin aluminum strips, about 6 inches in length and about .25 inches wide, and beaten thinner than modern kitchen aluminum foil.

Modern chaff is a fiberglass rod, about the thickness of a hair, with a coating of aluminum electronically deposited on it. The lengths vary from fractions of an inch to a couple of inches. You can't see modern chaff unless you are within a few feet of it.

[TheWraith]

54. Can we really consider any of that information accurate?

Where is this report? Where's the envelope that brought it from Harkin's office? There's exists a classic technique of the fictitious assertion: claiming that a particular thing was said or done by someone, or in a certain way, complete with details. Most people tend to assume that these assertions are correct because they think that no one would lie about something that could be verified, and so they don't actually bother to verify it. So I tend to question whether this report actually exists, whether Senator Harkin sent it to anyone, et al.

As for chaff, there's no way that it could be mistaken for a contrail. Chaff is rather like thin metallic ribbons or streamers--not at all something that would hang in the air like a mist.

[Name removed]

40. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sven77]

51. some more links

amazing interview if you can find it.
Alex Jones was joined on air yesterday by weather modification expert Ben Livingston. Livingston discussed in detail proven evidence of hurricane control and his research and experiences with cloud seeding and weather weapons used in the Vietnam war.

Former Naval Physicist- Government Can Control Hurricanes

http://www.weatherwars.info/index.php