There is something severely wrong with this country if 36% believe 9/11

[Renew Deal]

was an inside job. Most of you are aware of the poll that says 36% of Americans believe 9/11 was either MIHOP or LIHOP. 36%!!! That's a massive amount of people. That's more people than support Bush. There is something severely wrong if 36% believe it's an inside job. I was reading the Time article which led me to a documentary called Loose Change. Here are the links:

Time: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,1531304,00.html

Loose Change: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5946593973848835726&q=loose+change&hl=en

Now all of the anger of the government makes sense. A massive amount of people consider the gov't the enemy. And I understand that sentiment to a large degree. Bushco stonewalled and wouldn't go under oath for the 9/11 Commission. Information has been confiscated, obfuscated, and hidden since the beginning. The gov't didn't want the 9/11 Commission from the beginning. They withheld information. The 9/11 Commission was almost shut down early a few times and Bushco refused to let it get another needed extension. People see this and they wonder what the government has to hide.

Personally I still believe that 9/11 was too difficult to pull off with no one finding out. But when 36% of Americans believe it's an inside job while so much evidence has been withheld and so much information showing that it's possible is out there, it definitely means there is something severely wrong.

Someday someone other that Bush will run this country. I wonder if that President will spend an entire term cleaning up the mess, or will they just continue the same BS policies.

[mmonk]

1. I would like to know why people in this government

met with the head of Pakistan's ISI (he financed Atta) on the morning of september 11th.

[Ignacio Upton]

2. I personally don't believe it either

But there are things that make you go "hmmm" with regard to 9/11. However, "Loose Change", is a poorly-researched film. "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime" provides a more realistic scenario than the 9/11 of cruise missiles, voice-morphing technology, and controlled demolition that the creators of "Loose Change" want us to believe in.

Here's "Everybody's Gotta Learn Sometime":
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6757267008400743688

[lvx35]

3. This situation is 100% Bush's fault, even if it wasn't MIHOP or LIHOP

Its about all the stonewalling and obfuscation and bullshit. If he didn't want this to happen he should have had a little transparency...

[Renew Deal]

6. I agree

You have the great attack against American civilians since sometime in the 1800's. This happens during the information age when half the planet can record, analyze, and reanalyze the event. You can't stonewall and hide shit. This is turning into the JFK assassination on steroids.

[lostnfound]

19. I still can't believe the willingness of people to shrug off not knowing

the truth. When it happened, I began reading many books on politics and history and current events, trying to understand.

So many others just nodded their heads at the transparent fictions of the Bush administration. "They hate us for our freedom."

I thought the country would unite in the desire to get to the bottom of it. How naive I was

[proud2BlibKansan]

45. They knew it was going to happen

so at the very least it was a LIHOP.

Anyone who doubts this - remember kindasleezy's testimony before the 9/11 commission? THEY KNEW.

[Minstrel Boy]

4. interesting:

"Personally I still believe that 9/11 was too difficult to pull off with no one finding out"

Would that go for al Qaeda, too?

[Renew Deal]

7. It's easier to believe 4 planes were hijacked

than believing the government was able to plan and execute something like this. It's too big and involves too many people. Who would plant the bombs in the WTC and not talk? It's beyond belief.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

23. You assume I haven't

;)

[greyl]

25. You may want to do some research into that Freeper's link you

provided. ;)

In addition, you may want to do some research into when Marvin left his position on the board of directors at Securacom.

[tridim]

30. I provided the first of of 87,800 links I saw on Google

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=marvin+bush+wtc+security&btnG=Google+Search

Cheney also "left" Halliburton in 2000. Amazing how that works huh!

[greyl]

37. That hardly counts as research. nt

[Minstrel Boy]

17. The waters have been muddied

with disinformation, false leads and sexy, simplistic nonsense like Loose Change. I don't believe in controlled demolition either. Just try to dig beneath the layers of shit that have been pancaked on over the years, and the evidence is there that the hijackers were under surveillance, their communications were tapped, investigations were stymied, response was hamstrung, and so on.

[Richard Steele]

22. Who would plant the bombs in the WTC and not talk?

Well, you know the company in charge of SECURITY
there was a Kuwaiti-backed outfit owned
by Marvin Bush, the pResident's brother.

And this Co. abruptly stopped its regular
bomb-sniffing dog patrols on Sept. 6th.

What a coincidence.

[Name removed]

24. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Sinti]

33. Not trying to bicker, but this would have been totally unnecessary

and added a huge amount of discoverable risk to the plan. You know the security company he was involved with no longer worked for WTC in September of 2001. Moreover, there are plenty of exotic explosives that dogs just don't have a nose for. We have people who got into an bugged the Kremlin, do you really think they need to have inside men in the relatively flimsy security of buildings like the Twin Towers?

There are so many poisoned pills in this box of candy...

[sabbat hunter]

53. myths all myths

marvin bush company was NOT in charge of security.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x113081



Because they were not in charge of security or in any way in charge of complex, but merely CONSULTANTS who ceased doing business with the Port Authority a year before Sept. 2001, Marvin Bush and/or his company did NOT

- order the bomb sniffing dogs off the site on Sept. 6th
- order a "power down" on the weekend before 9/11

[Slaughtermeyer]

63. Nearly 200 Israeli agents were deported

According to FOX NEWS, nealy 200 Israeli intelligence agents were deported shortly after 9/11.

[sabbat hunter]

68. your point is?

and since when is faux news a good source of unbiased knowledge?


do you think israel was behind 9/11? it that what you are infering?

[Slaughtermeyer]

71. Dancing Israelis

A good inidication Israel was part of the 9/11 conspiracy was the fact that Mossad agents were caught filming and celebrating the attack:

http://www.sundayherald.com/37707

[John Q. Citizen]

32. Iran/Contra was a huge operation and ran for years until an accident

brought it down. (The Sandinistas shot down a contra supply plane and one guys lived. He talked to save his neck)Nobody talked for all those years they were shipping TOW missles to a terrorist black-listed Iran and running guns to Nicaragua, and coke back to the US.

Watergate had lots of people involved (The Plumbers, a whole unit of black opts plus the whole white house staff) and Nixon would have gotten away with it except the bag man's airline went down by accident and they found hush money in his suit case.


You are willing to believe that 19 Arab Hijackers could pull of 9/11 but not that 19 Arab hijackers +19 US special operations guys and a few high ranking officials could have done 9/11? Why not? If nineteen hijackers could do it without rigging the buildings why couldn't a rogue US faction and 19 hijackers do it without rigging the buildings?

Who cleared the skys of air defense for the hijackers?

Who placed puts on the stock market?

I always laugh that peoploe will buy 19 Arab hijackers without help, but can't for the life of them concieve of 19 arab hijackers with a little help.

Thay always imagine it would have to be 19 arab hijackers and hundreds or thousands of co-conspiritors. Why is that?

[petgoat]

40. "Who would plant the bombs in the WTC and not talk?"

Dead men don't talk.

too big and involves too many people.

What makes you think so? War games disrupt the air defence.

Dr. Van Romero, an explosives expert, said a few charges could
do the deed.

Operation Northwoods was covered up for 40 years.
The Tonkin Gulf Scam nearly as long.

Would you claim there is no illegal drug industry because one of those
tens of millions of junkies would have talked?

[QuettaKid]

46. Who would plant the bombs and not talk?

The Mossad isin't real big about going around and giving interviews after an operation.

[mhatrw]

60. Alternatively, the bomb planters could have gathered for a last minute

meeting on 9/11 (in one of the WTC towers, of course).

[michael_1166]

55. If you think the government wasn't involved,

you forgot to mention the "terrorists" who must have walked over to WTC 7 and then blew it up expertly, while the world was looking. Explain that.

[rman]

65. I hope you don't think you're asking any new questions

We've been over those about a million times.

[proud2BlibKansan]

5. Watch the WTC buildings fall

It is obviously a controlled demolition. Especially building 7.

No other skyscrapers in history have collapsed after a fire. NONE. One in South America burned for 2 days and it didn't collapse.

[Renew Deal]

8. I think it misses the point.

The point is the number of people that think it's even possible. What is going on in this country?

[serryjw]

15. WHY is this such a shock?

I knew 2/02....The world KNEW and NOW Americans are finally awakening to all the facts. Anyone that does not accept MIHOP is in denial.

[OwnedByFerrets]

16. Hopefully, revolution. nt

[tridim]

18. Even with the MSM distractions, most people are logical by nature

We all saw the towers fall and we've all seen footage of controlled demolitions. It's the logical conclusion.

Sounds like people are just starting to wake up.

[Sinti]

34. People are really distressed about the total lack of decency * exhibits

Look at Katrina and NOLA. Look at Iraq. Our guys are over there dying, because * wanted to invade, he cooked the books in a sense. They know that the PTB (powers that be) don't give a damn about us regular folks. Do you think they would hesitate to kill 3000 of us if it meant millions more in their already busting pockets? If you do think they would hesitate, I present to you the Iraq War.

Besides, *'s friends paid for the terrorists (the Saudi royals, the bin Ladens, etc - the there's that Pakistani ISI general). There's the PNAC statement about needing a New Pearl Harbor. There's all the ignored warnings, and hindered/thwarted/halted investigations beforehand. There's the fact that nearly everybody with real power (Rummy, Gen. Myers, *, the head of the NMCC Montague Winfield, the FAA's hijack coordinator) was AWOL until 10:00 to 10:30 on 9/11. And we can't forget the fact that nearly everyone who screwed up so royally got promoted. You have to think if they got promoted they must have done it right :shrug:

It's really sad isn't it. I wish I could be naive and think it all a coincidence.

[proud2BlibKansan]

47. The administration is evil

They stole 2 elections

They have the deaths of 7000+ Americans on their hands.
3000+ on 9/11
1500+ following Katrina
2600+ soldiers in Iraq

And they did nothing to prevent 9/11. Plus they have lied to us repeatedly to explain how and why it happened.

Now do you get what is going on in this country?

[sabbat hunter]

54. no other buildings

have been hit by fully fueled jet liners like the WTC was.
no other buildings that have been on fire, were designed like the WTC. they are fairly unique designs.

[Nozebro]

57. Ditto Pentagon and abandoned mine pit in Pennsylvania.

Similar thinking might also apply to cell phones in airliners (at least on 9/11). Also, at the Pentagon, aside from the envelope of the building, that round exit hole is also unique and whatever made it was also unique too, maybe.

[sabbat hunter]

61. design of the buildigns

was the one in south america designed like the twin towers or WTC7?


obvious controlled demolition? not so obvious to me.

[Nozebro]

62. No two buildings are exactly alike. A great defense because it's true!

Also, no two plane crashes, no two controlled demolitions, no two Pentagons (wait, I got carried away there - never mind about the Pentagons), no two military exercises, no two False Flag operations, there are no two anythings that are exactly alike except for the two Osamas.

[The_Casual_Observer]

9. They probably knew something was going to happen, but they

didn't know what it was going to be. I think they assumed it would be a US embassy someplace. They were totally irresponsible about it & they they know it.

[CanuckAmok]

12. I agree. LIHOP.

That would also explain GWB's strange behaviour during "My Pet Goat". Look at the footage; is he a man who is being surprised hie nation is under attack, or is he a man who is being told a previously-disclosed event had gone haywire?

[petgoat]

41. I think it's clearly the latter.

The nation under attack? He'd jump up "when? Where?" and run to a phone, a TV.

No he sits there, distressed. He seems to be calculating. Something has gone
wrong. Flights 77 and 93 are late.

[CanuckAmok]

10. Loose Change is sloppily researched and easily debunked....

That said, I think it's far more telling that 36% of Americans ---over 100 million people--- believe their own government is not only capable of desiging the WTC/Pentagon attacks, but complicit in them.

That speaks volumes, whether the gov't was involved or not.

[kerstin]

27. What about Loose Change is easily debunked?

The raw footage of steel-structured skyscrapers virtually dematerializing before our very eyes? The raw footage of Dan Rather saying that the collapse of the towers looked to him just like a classic demolition? The raw footage of firefighters talking about hearing explosions in an ordered, top-to-bottom sequence as they were moving through the buildings? And I suppose they just invented the part about WTC7's inexplicable and still unaccounted-for collapse.

The official story and even the LIHOP version defy not only physics, but logic, intuition and plain ole' common sense.

[Minstrel Boy]

28. It's been meticulously debunked by serious 9/11 researchers

See, for instance, Jim Hoffman's work here.

[kerstin]

59. Hoffman believes the Towers collapsed due to controlled demolition.

Otherwise I doubt his work would be featured prominently on the Scholars for 9/11 Truth website (ST911.org).

Hoffman very effectively deconstructs the arguments made by NIST which studiously ignore the most obvious explanation of controlled demolition. He writes: “...NIST fails to even address most of the features of the Towers’ destruction that are apparently unique to controlled demolition.”

To say that an entire documentary has been debunked instead of citing specific inaccuracies is misleading and intellectually dishonest. Much of the documentary stands on its own (i.e., the raw footage I reference in my earlier e-mail).

I don’t know of a legitimate 9/11 researcher who disagrees with the controlled demolition aspect. Loose Change is worth watching on that account alone.

[greyl]

29. The makers of the film admit that it contains errors of fact.

"We know there are errors in the documentary, and we've actually left them in there" - k.rowe
http://www.alternet.org/story/40476/

[tridim]

31. And he goes on to say (and you conveniently edit out)..

"We left them in there so people will want to discredit us and go out and research the events yourself and come up with your own conclusions. That's our whole goal, to make Americans think. To wake up from the 16 amps of your television to watch something and get a passion in something again."

[mirandapriestly]

36. uh huh.eom

[greyl]

39. I conveniently provided the link.

I wonder when Limbaugh and O'Reilly are gonna start using Rowe's totally lame excuse.

edit: Don't forget that my original statement "The makers admit that it contains errors of fact" is absolutely true. Enjoy the movie.

[JackRiddler]

44. Please...

This "context" only makes it worse.

[QuettaKid]

49. one thing about Loose Change that misses the mark

is the supposed lightweight object under the blue tarp, being carried by the guys in uniform. It was a tent. There are photos of several of them elsewhere on the lawn of the pentagon.

[mirandapriestly]

38. That is the "in" thing to say, but I don't find that true.

The 2nd addition seemed to be pretty well researched. They may have become speculative at the end, if I recall, but their best points were made using documented info.

[Sir Jeffrey]

11. From the Time article...

"...the idea that there is a malevolent controlling force orchestrating global events is, in a perverse way, comforting."

WTF?

[mirandapriestly]

wtf is right...eom

[mirandapriestly]

35. double, delete

[petgoat]

42. It's the old idea that the world is chaotic, and that bothers us.

And so we go around imposing order on random events.

Connecting random dots.

As if 9/11 dots were random!

[EVDebs]

13. Half of NYers believe US leaders had foreknowledge...

"And according to a Zogby International poll this summer, half of New Yorkers believe U.S. leaders had foreknowledge of 9/11."

http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20041022153928315

[mmonk]

20. Just keep in mind there is a whole lot wrong

in the official version from the executive branch. Why all the lying? I don't believe in missiles or building detonation but there's no way I believe the government either. From what I've heard, bush threatened the Taliban government about the Unocal pipeline and also demanded the hand over of Al Queda members (because of the Cole and Embassy attacks). I heard they probably alerted Bin Laden and the plane attacks at symbolic targets were planned because they thought they would be attacked soon. It might be wrong but I've heard hints of that scenario. So who's to say what really went down as to lead up events?

[Selatius]

21. I don't believe in MIHOP (inside job). I believe in LIHOP instead.

People out in the field were picking up warning signs and trying to pass it up the bureaucracy. The president got a memo that said "bin Laden determined to strike in US" about a week before 9/11. People knew something was happening. We got warnings from foreign intelligence services from the Germans and the Russians and others, but nothing happened.

I think it was deliberate. Without "another Pearl Harbor," PNAC would never get off the drawing boards.

[petgoat]

43. "Bin Laden Determined to Strike" was 4 weeks before 9/11.

Bush's response was to tell the briefing team "OK, you've covered
your ass," and go fishing.

[proud2BlibKansan]

48. No, he went brush clearing

no fishing. Drought in Texas dried up the pond. :)

[rman]

67. Knowing and not doing anything is in principal as bad as making it happen

Since they're supposed to something to prevent it when they know something really bad in going to happen, their standing down On Purpose in order to Let It Happen is in effect doing something to Make It Happen.

[dailykoff]

26. If you want incompetence, there it is.

A) 36% of the country is onto their scam and B) they were too stupid or more likely greedy to get out of Dodge when the had the chance ('04).

So the next couple of years might see a little rain on the PNAC party.

[QuettaKid]

50. LIHOP or MIHOP it does not make a difference.

9/11 STILL OCCURRED ON HIS WATCH. HE IS RESPONSIBLE.

[FoxOnTheRun]

51. 36% is a bit low

I would say its more like 45% to 60%, from the polls I've seen.
(for involvement)

[MervinFerd]

52. ConspiraLoons and a Grain of Salt.

Take these poll numbers with a grain of salt. Or a lump.

Large numbers supposedly believe in angels, alien abductions, Roswell, Spontaneous Human Combustion, Professional Wrestling and that the world was created in 7 days. But you see very few people actually taking actions appropriate to such beliefs.

Some large portion of poll respondents are just too fogged to understand the question, some proportion are just yanking the pollster around.

And, if the question is vague enough, a YES just indicates a general paranoid suspicion of The Government. Not much else. The number of people who have a clear opinion on these issues is vanishingly small, if loud.

But, yes, there are too many Woo-Woos out there. Which is why some effort at debunking ConspiraLoon HorseShit remains essential.

[Brainster]

56. Read the Poll Itself

And you won't be surprised they got big numbers. The poll asked a lot of goofy questions, like whom you would vote for president between JFK and Ronald Reagan or between Hillary and Bill Clinton and whether you had ever eaten anything that had fallen on the floor without washing it first.

The poll showed that those who believe the conspiracy theory tended to be younger and less educated than those who doubt it. The poll also showed that a higher percentage (38%) believe the government is hiding evidence of intelligent life on other planets. When you get to the specifics of MIHOP theories, only 6% said that controlled demoltion of the WTC towers was very likely, with an additional 10% saying somewhat likely. Given that CD is one of the few things that a vast majority of the 9-11 Deniers agree on (even the no-planers), I suspect that the 20% who didn't credit it despite supposedly believing in MIHOP were just playing along with the "game" suggested by the other goofy questions in the poll.

[MervinFerd]

58. Thanks for the clarification.

Not that this will make any differences for the Woo Woos.

[leftofthedial]

64. yep. in any rational country

the number would be in the 90's.

[rman]

66. Wrong indeed. Wrong as in: JFK, Iran-Contra,

wrong as in a whole series of US supported coups to prop up US-friendly military dictators.
For starters.

[reprehensor]

69. I know. Why only 36%?

I mean, duh!

[FoxOnTheRun]

70. Only 75% have internet

[Dancing_Dave]

72. There's something wrong if 64% of the people DON'T know

That it was an inside job! The information to demonstrate it has been availabe on line for years now. There's no excuse for anyone who has a computer and internet connection, and still hasn't figured out the Bush Administration was behind 9/11. Wake up and smell the coffee!