Jerome Hauer, OEM director -"We had aircraft crash drills

[DoYouEverWonder]

on a regular basis."

Just one week before 9/11, OEM is preparing a tabletop exercise with the Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA), to develop plans for business continuity in New York’s Financial District—where the World Trade Center is located—after a terrorist attack. Jerome Hauer, OEM director from 1996 to February 2000, later testifies, “We looked at every conceivable threat that anyone on the staff could think of, be it natural or intentional but not the use of aircraft as missiles.” He tells the 9/11 Commission: “We had aircraft crash drills on a regular basis. The general consensus in the city was that a plane hitting a building ... was that it would be a high-rise fire. ... There was never a sense, as I said in my testimony, that aircraft were going to be used as missiles.”

Amazing no one bothered to tell National Security Advisor, Condolezza Rice that they were imagining these things.

[greyl]

1. Do you think she was lying or ignorant?

She's a piece of shit either way, but what do you think?

[savemefromdumbya]

2. basically she knew

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. Do I have to pick

just one? Ignorant people are quite capable of lying too.

[greyl]

15. In this case, yes.

I was using the following definition, in regard to her "nobody predicted" quote:

2. lacking knowledge or information as to a particular subject or fact.
3. uninformed; unaware.

[DoYouEverWonder]

20. I'll pick lying for $500, Alex

She was with Dick Cheney in his office watching the attack on TV. She knew.

[Make7]

3. Doesn't that actually support the statement(s) made by Ms. Rice?

"I don't think anybody could have predicted that ... they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile." - Condoleezza Rice, May 2002

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/18/attack/main509488.shtml

From the statements in the OP:

"We looked at every conceivable threat that anyone on the staff could think of, be it natural or intentional but not the use of aircraft as missiles."

"There was never a sense, as I said in my testimony, that aircraft were going to be used as missiles."

Maybe I'm just looking at it wrong....

- Make7

[JackRiddler]

4. however

He is talking about considering planes crashing into buildings.

[Make7]

6. It seems more like they were considering that as an accident scenario.

The fact that airplanes had accidentally run into at least two skyscrapers in Manhattan already (and there was at least one near miss), might lead one to believe it could happen again.

Should they have informed someone in the federal government that they thought planes might accidentally run into skyscrapers again?

However, the fact of the matter is that Ms. Rice clearly was speaking of planes used as missiles, and the statements in the OP also were clear in that they did not consider the use of airplanes as missiles.

- Make7

[greyl]

5. The Rice quote I was thinking of was

May, 2002: National security adviser Condoleezza Rice declares, "I don’t think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center ... All of this reporting about hijacking was about traditional hijacking."
http://www.newwartimes.com/warnings.html

After checking, apparently a more complete quote is here:

The report contrasts with Bush administration officials' assertions that none in government had imagined an attack like Sept. 11 before that time.

"I don't think anybody could have predicted that these people would take an airplane and slam it into the World Trade Center, take another one and slam it into the Pentagon; that they would try to use an airplane as a missile, a hijacked airplane as a missile," national security adviser Condoleezza Rice said Thursday.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/05/17/attack/main509471.shtml

[Make7]

7. Big quote or little quote, it's still an inaccurate statement. ( n/t )

[Bryan Sacks]

8. "NORAD Had Drills Of Planes as Weapons"

Drills planned for July 2001. Drills of domestic airliners taking off from US airports and being hijacked and turned into missiles. She's lying, Eberhart is lying and transparently so.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2004-04-18-norad_x.htm

[DoYouEverWonder]

11. Yet, she's Secretary of State now

It seems Condi is too busy taking care of her husband to bother her beautiful mind with actually doing her job.

Delirious rhetoric

Condoleeza Rice flatters her president with empty words as the war on terror loses all direction

Sidney Blumenthal
Thursday September 7, 2006
The Guardian

About two weeks after the 2004 presidential election, on November 13, the British embassy held a surprise 50th birthday party for Condoleezza Rice. On her arrival, Ambassador David Manning presented her with a red Oscar de la Renta gown. When Rice changed into the dress and emerged like Cinderella, she was met by her Prince Charming, dressed in a tuxedo, the man she once called "my husband", President Bush.

The following week, Bush appointed his national security adviser as his secretary of state. Bush's relationship with Rice is perhaps the strangest of his many strange relationships. The mysterious attachment involves complex transactions of noblesse oblige and deference, ignorance and adulation, vulnerability and sweet talk. Like his other female enablers - Karen Hughes, his political image-maker and undersecretary of state for public diplomacy, and Harriet Miers, his legal counsel - Rice is ferociously protective. She shields him from worst-case scenarios, telling him to ignore criticism, and showers him with flattery that he is a world-historical colossus.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,,1866265,00.html

[FoxOnTheRun]

14. Cinderella clearly has a screw loose

Instead of writing reports, the diplomats should "sell America", she insisted. "We are salesmen for America!"

On Tuesday, kicking off the mid-term elections campaign, Bush delivered a speech that cited Bin Laden's screeds, Lenin's What Is To Be Done? and Hitler's Mein Kampf, and promised "complete victory"

Oh Boy, what are they drinking?

[greyl]

9. yep nt

[TomClash]

12. Maybe I'm looking at it wrong too

But any guy middle-aged or older knows what "kamikaze" means.

[Make7]

13. Apparently you are.

There is no mention of the word "kamikaze" in the OP or the post that you replied to.

- Make7

[catnhatnh]

16. I believe he is referring to the fact ....

that any student of history could easily remember that a desparate Japan, backed into what the current regime refers to as an "assymetrical warfare" situation went to PRECISELY the tactic Rice claimed "NO one could have imagined"...IE: "Kamikaze" or "suicide" pilots attempting to enforce their desires by the attrition of enemy assets. And then and now major targets got the most attempts made against them.You went for the highest value assets- battleships (WTC 1&2) not the frigates (Bugtussel Ark& Pigeon Forge Tenn.).....

[Make7]

17. No one is saying that what Ms. Rice said was correct. ( n/t )

[catnhatnh]

18. That is literally true....

and I appreciate that.But I do feel we sometimes parse words down here to an extreme degree...Condi's deal was about intentional strikes while the OP was about unintentional (but equally lethal) strikes.But the mention of Kamikaze lit a light bulb for me,as in "Oh yeah,suicide, aircraft, and assymetrical force"....and oddly enough,this kamikaze thing for the FIRST time makes something Bush said ring true-they really DO only have to be right once!

[Make7]

19. Condi's statement(s) concerning this have been debunked many times.

And much more effectively. The words "Bojinka" and "Genoa" are far better choices than "kamikaze" for any discussion regarding intentional strikes related to this subject.

This issue doesn't seem to be very relevant since everyone seems to agree that what Ms. Rice said was wrong.

- Make7

[TomClash]

21. You must be very young

Kamikaze is not a drink served to young budding Republicans - it was a tactic used by the Japanese in WW II. Japanese pilots would use their aircraft as missiles to attack US ships during WW II, obviously committing suicide in the process.

It's not a long stretch from ships to buildings - that's the only significant tactical difference between the WW II kamikaze pilots and the 19 hijackers of 9/11.

[Make7]

23. You are jumping to conclusions.

I wrote:

There is no mention of the word "kamikaze" in the OP or the post that you replied to.

From the statement above you seem to be concluding that I don't know what the word "kamikaze" means and that by not knowing the meaning it indicates that I am "very young".

I would like to offer an alternate interpretation of my statement quoted above: you in no way demonstrated how the word "kamikaze" is relevant to my first post that you replied to.

- Make7

[TomClash]

25. in your post

you quote the OP and Rice as saying there was never the thought that airplanes could be used as missiles. That's exactly what kamikaze pilots did in WWII. That's how my post is relevant.

[Make7]

26. Your apparent misunderstanding of the meaning of my post...

... does not actually make your reply relevant to the point that I was making.

- Make7

[TomClash]

27. Yeah, whatever, ok, great

:eyes:

[DoYouEverWonder]

22. Since Condi was the Nat'l Security Adviser

She should have known about drills done by OEM and she should have known about Project Bojinka. It shouldn't be that hard for someone with access to all the intel to put 2 + 2 together. If she couldn't, she should have been held accountable for being the stupidest person on the planet. It was her job to know this stuff. Instead she's too busy changing Dimson's diapers.

[Make7]

24. She almost certainly knew her statement(s) were untrue when she made them.

However, the statements made by Jerome Hauer in the OP simply do not demonstrate that her statements were untrue. He specifically states that they did not consider the possibility of airplanes being used as missiles in their drills.

I don't think anyone here believes that what Ms. Rice said was true. Unless your intention is to go beyond just showing what she said was false, I fail to see the point of this thread.

- Make7

[seemslikeadream]

28. kick