Conflicting maps/accounts for the Pentagon approach loop-- what gives?

[spooked911]

Here's the original path "flight 77" was supposed to have taken as it neared the Pentagon:



from here:
http://www.pentagonresearch.com/attack.html

The plane flew down from the north, passing over the National Mall and the Pentagon than, looping around and descending to hit the Pentagon on its northwest side.

This is the final loop taken by "flight 77" before it approached the Pentagon, according to the flight data recorder data documented by the NTSB (link-- http://www.ntsb.gov/info/foia%5Ffri.htm):



It's just a LITTLE bit different. So, what the f$#!? Why the huge difference?

This new path is totally bizarre. Although I'm sure people who cling to the official story would say the NTSB is the true path and that Hani Hanjour was just lost.

Riiiight.


If we assume this new NTSB path is real, if ANYTHING, it looks like the pilot is wasting time before getting to the Pentagon. Which would actually make sense if this plane was a diversion and was supposed to fly OVER the Pentagon at the same time the pre-planted bombs went off.
http://pilotsfor911truth.bravehost.com/pentagon.html

Regardless of why the loop was made, there is no good explanation for why the original "flight 77" path is so different from the NTSB path!

NOTE: Many news sources described the original flight 77 path shown on top. Here:
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&day_of_9/11=aa77
Radar data shows Flight 77 crossing the Capitol Beltway and headed toward the Pentagon. However, the plane, flying more than 400 mph, is too high when it nears the Pentagon at 9:35 a.m., crossing the Pentagon at about 7,000 feet up.



Interestingly this source has a description that fits the NTSB path better, but note the time of the attack (much too early!):
http://poly.union.rpi.edu/article_view.php3?view=793&part=1
The sources said Dulles controllers noticed a fast-moving primary target in their airspace east-southeast of the airport, where it shouldn't be, headed directly toward the restricted airspace around the White House.

But as they watched, the plane began turning to the right away from the White House, circling a full 270 degrees to the right and approaching the Pentagon from the southwest. It then dropped below radar level, disappearing from the controllers' screens, shortly before hitting the Pentagon about 9:30 am...

[DoYouEverWonder]

1. If this plane was a diversion!

If this wasn't Flight 77 but instead it's the flight path for the C130 that flew over the Pentagon about 30 seconds later?

Missiles could have been launched from the 'generator' that is facing the impact zone.

[spooked911]

8. Interesting idea that it was from the C130.

I don't understand about missiles being fired from the generator though.

[DoYouEverWonder]

9. This one on the right

Pointing toward the hole. It could have been a Patriot missile launcher? Just speculation.

[DrDebug]

19. Serious reply. Now, that's an interesting alternative

Because it would have guaranteed a correct impact and you can easily fit a launcer in that building.

:toast:

[DrDebug]

21. Been thinking about it a bit and like your alternative a lot

The point with the no-missile theory is Thierry Meyssan. I know that he has been ridiculed a lot, but he is the president of Réseau Voltaire.

As you may know there is something funny about the French-American relationship. It can be described as a failed marriage where the partners stay together because of the kids, but they really don't like each other anymore. The result is that they are often partners and part of the same team, however sometimes they fight a bit.

One of the typical revenges of the French is leaking one of the dirty secrets of the CIA. After all they all know and keep track of each others secrets and the favorite news site seem to be Réseau Voltaire ( http://www.voltairenet.org/en ). The point is that even French Intelligence wouldn't have known the exact details either, so maybe the only thing they heard through the grapevine is that a missile was used for the Pentagon, but not how it was done. And the President of Réseau Voltaire, Thierry Meyssan, is of course important enough to make the news public, since news outlets can't really ignore him, since he is a big guy, and he is also a leftie conspiracy theorist, so it does not damage his credibility.

So the missile launced from the "generator" in front of the Pentagon is an excellent alternative.

[DoYouEverWonder]

24. Here's another pic of the 'generator'

This one is before the collapse. The generator was not in the impact zone or path of the 'plane', yet it conveniently caught fire. Not a bad way to destroy evidence I suppose?

[Nozebro]

28. Is it pointed in the direction of the Pentagon building entry hole?

Looks like it. Is it large enough to contain a small missile? One that would pack enough punch to make a hole in the reinforced Pentagon building?

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. That's what I was thinking

If someone figured out what the truck was really for, they could just use the excuse that it was part of the Pentagon's defense system, that of course has to be disguised.

In Iraq and Afghanistan, they are using thermobaric weapons and they are finding that they are more effective if they punch a hole through the wall of the building/target with something else first. I think that's what they were doing here.

There's also a huge secondary flash after the fire ball on the video that the Pentagon released.

[Nozebro]

31. Excellent point about the excuse that would be used if necessary. EOM

nt

[Sinti]

25. I doubt it, they're much bigger than that

They look like this mostly.



On the news that day there was a report of a bomb immediately after a helicopter landed on the helipad. I think that's the origin of most of the speculation. The generator was there because this part of the building was under reconstruction, and had been for some time. Now an overfly (military plane) with a guided missile, that's possible, but it would have to be a small one as they tend to blow things up pretty badly.

Bomb on the inside is more likely, if they couldn't manage the plane. There's a metro station there, open access. DC Metro is/was very safe, very little visible security is used. There were even war protesters in there during Clinton's term, with no issue. Big boom, zero risk, no whammies. The station is, however, basically on the opposite side to the side they hit, but the Secretary's office is kind of toward the middle. Rummy himself still would not have been at risk.

FWIW, I'm sticking with 77 hit the Pentagon, it keeps it simple in my mind - putting myself in the perp's shoes I find the missile thing kind of pointless and risky. The government via their media lapdogs seem to want to focus us on 77 and the Pentagon. If that's what they want to talk about, I assume the smoking gun is elsewhere. Could be reverse psychology though, I suppose...

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. The 9-11 Commission confirmed that there was a C130 'following'

right behind Flight 77.


Here's one eyewitness who saw the C130

Cleveland, Allen

Soon after the crash (Within 30 seconds of the crash) I witnessed a military cargo plane (Possibly a C130) fly over the crash site and circle the mushroom cloud. My brother inlaw also witnessed the same plane following the jet while he was on the HOV lanes in Springfield. He said that he saw a jetliner flying low over the tree tops near Seminary RD in Springfield, VA. and soon afterwards a military plane was seen flying right behind it.

http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/witnesses/bart.html


National Guard C-130 followed Amer 77 until it crashed into Pentagon.

http://fs.huntingdon.edu/jlewis/Terror/9-11ComsnRept04Summary.htm


This is the flight path for the C130, Not Phanthom Flight 77.

[Nozebro]

11. How did "Phantom Flight 77" crash into the Pentagon?

The C130 pilot didn't report having seen ANYTHING crash into the Pentagon, much less FL 77.

[spooked911]

13. that would make sense -- but you're saying

THEY LIED about the flight 77 path?????

:o :o

[DoYouEverWonder]

16. Sure looks like they did

Doesn't it?

[LARED]

2. If you do some research on the first flight path

you will find it was developed by a pilot writing a piece very shortly after the attacks. He was guessing at the path based on available information at the time.

IMO this new information is far more reliable, not to mention sensible.

[JackRiddler]

3. Q.

Why wait five years to release something as elementary as this?

[LARED]

5. Got me. I've no clue as to why they waited five years. NT

[spooked911]

14. STILL-- why were the initial accounts of this flight path so wrong???

[LARED]

23. Perhaps people looking at a plane

a few thousand feet in the air have a difficult time correctly orienting it's position.

I was once out deep sea fishing about 25 miles out to sea and a large fishing boat came up along side and asked what direction was West on a clear sunny day.

[Nozebro]

29. That's the danger of posing a question like that, isn't it?

Spooked911 should know better.

[spooked911]

7. if you read my whole post, you would see that several media accounts

had the plane initially passing over the Pentagon from the north. Why is this? Why were they so wrong?

Also, why on earth is this new path so "sensible"? It makes no sense to me why the pilot would turn away when the pentagon was right in front of him.

[Sinti]

4. The new map is bizarre, and I still don't think they've got it right.

He passes over an extremely populated area in his final approach, at that time or morning hundreds of thousands of people are outdoors, on their way to work, and basically no one in Alexandria saw it. Impossible, we don't have high-rise buildings to block the view, no buildings go over 15 stories or so, because of the Washington Monument. People saw it from the 14th Street Bridge, however. This is nonsense. Granted, it wouldn't take much of an error to make a huge difference at that speed, IMO.

They seem to want to keep focus on the Pentagon and Flight 77. All info released has to do with that flight. Apparently, this is where the government wants you to look. :shrug:

[sgsmith]

6. Checkpoints

I took the AA77 FDR data and tried to overlay some datapoints on the official map. The datapoints are "fuzzy" - it's up to you to say exactly where on the map "south", "west", "north" are, but the notations are fairly close to where they should be, and still be legible.

What I notice is that during most of the big turn, AA77 is fairly high, and fairly slow. It wasn't until the final straight approach that the altitude decreased and speed increased. And by that time, there was less than a minute until impact.

[Sinti]

12. I lived 1 block up from Rt. & and 2 blocks down from 395

That is the final approach with less than a minute to go. I could see the Pentagon from my 9th floor apartment. :shrug: I think they're slightly off. A very minor error (even in the mapping overlay) would result in a dramatic difference at airplane speed.

[spooked911]

15. did you see the plane?

[Sinti]

17. No, sir. And no one I knew there saw the plane. These are people

waiting for the bus, no tall buildings to speak of... I think the map is a bit off. :shrug:

[Sinti]

22. Oops, just noticed that should have Rt. 7 and not Rt. & :blush: n/t

[DrDebug]

18. Neither of the two is correct, but I managed to find the correct one

What everybody refuses to acknowledge is that Hani was stoned, and therefore they surpressed the correct flight path.



What if they blew the building from the inside like they did with WTC, coz I see NOTHING on the security cameras except for one frame with a strange blur which could also have been bird shit.

[rman]

20. Looks like he missed the Pentagon all together

Which would explains why they had to use a missile.

[Sinti]

26. Does anyone know his altitude when he crossed the Beltway the second time?

Yes, I know I'm being lazy and should find out for myself, but, I figured if someone else already knows...

[sgsmith]

27. Look at post 6 n/t

[Sinti]

32. So e's at 2045 as he sets up, is he in a steady decline from that point?

Does he nosedive in the last 1-1/2 miles? Do you know?