I am very much MIHOP but those

[serryjw]

who believe (65%) that we were REALLY attacked on 9-11 I need to understand something.

HOW does anyone rationalize that the most powerful nation in the world, with the ( BY FAR) largest military budget, can have 4 planes hijacked by people that live 15,000 miles away from us in caves. HOW can you sleep knowing this government is so incompetent....especially after Katrina/Rita

Choice #1 MIHOP ( Deliberately killed Americans)
Choice #2 LIHOP ( Let someone Deliberately kill Americans for them)
Choice #3 A TOTAL SCREW UP!


How can anyone so blindly choose any one these? Isn't it embarrassing to anyone that a total screw up created this last 5 years?

[FogerRox]

1. yeah I know, excellent point

of the 3 choices, they still gotta go....


.. to jail.

[greyl]

2. I'm still searching for a convincing MIHOP argument.

You said "4 planes hijacked by people that live 15,000 miles away from us in caves."

Who are you talking about there? Individuals, or a culture/society?

[serryjw]

3. I don't understand your question

I'm number 1...You are more comfortable with number 3??

[greyl]

4. Who are the people who live 15,000 miles away in caves

and hijacked the planes?

[serryjw]

5. 15 of the 19 terrorists

from Saudi Arabia?

[MervinFerd]

7. Are there caves in Saudi Arabia? Mostly sand, I thought.

And really big palaces.

[cherokeeprogressive]

8. Do you really think Atta (the only one whose name I remember)

lived in a cave?

You really think that? Tell me you don't. I have too much respect for you based on the posts of yours that I read.

You think 15 of the 19 lived in caves?

I'm just askin'...

[serryjw]

9. Can we get back on point ,please?

I don't give a shit where they live. It was a metaphor not meant to be taken literally. I was referring to their ( Bushco)'s incompetence

[cherokeeprogressive]

10. I dislike da chimperor and his minion as much as ANYONE

I guess I'm a little too literal for my own good.

I'm not of a mind to say: "we good, they bad" though.

IMHO, there is a lot of blame to be spread around, true dat. Some ours, a lot of it theirs.

Politicians as a whole TOTALLY SUCK. Do I think there is an honest one in the whole fucking lot of them? Maybe. I gotta hedge my bet on that one. Maybe is as good as it gets until I know otherwise, in an "in my heart" kinda way. Point one out, and prove he or she is TOTALLY above the fray, takes no kickback of any kind (monetary, or otherwise) for any legislation whatsoever, and has never cheated on his/her wife/husband, or kicked the family dog, OR hired a fucking "illegal alien" maid or nanny.

Betcha can't.

I'm with ya on the incompetence of da chimperor though, 100%.

[serryjw]

11. Dennis Kucinich

I would bet every dime I have that he fits your criteria.

I get criticized all the time (on DU) for saying I am a liberal not a democrat. Bushit's tax cut for the rich was partisan politics.

9-11. The Iraq invasion,outing Valerie Plame, the Patriots Act. immigration and a bunch more is not partisan
THey re dismantling the constitution and our freedoms one bill at a time

Did I mention the NAU?

[petgoat]

15. Oh gee, cherokee, thanks for spreading around the current

Republican talking point, which is: Hey,Bush is an incompetent
assohole, but the Dems are incompetent assholes too, and basically
all politicians are incompetent assholes, so if you're unhappy about
how things are, forget about voting because what's the use?

And if you're pretty well satisfied, well, it couldn't hurt to vote
for the guys who made things the way they are, huh?

[greyl]

17. Your post is a disgusting over-reaction. nt

[mp3hound]

39. Looks like a meltdown in progress.

In a remarkably uncontrolled self-demolition.

[Nozebro]

21. Words you'd think any progressive (RW or LeftWinger) would support.

Right on the money. That's exactly how they operate. Nothing new about divide and conquer, is there?

[cherokeeprogressive]

25. I don't know anything about rethuglican talking points

But I'll say this:

I've lived in California most of my life. I was born here. I'm in my mid-forties. WE'VE NEVER HAD A SECURE BORDER. Ever. But we've had administrations that come from both sides of the aisle.

Democratic administrations and Republican administrations have almost exactly split my forty-plus years.

There is no national healthcare plan. There are no secure borders. The infrastructure is crumbling.

Who to blame?

BOTH PARTIES

Both parties have made things the way they are. Unless you'd argue that during Democratic administrations we've had national healthcare, secure borders, and improvement on the status of our infrastructure, but during rethuglican ones we didn't.

[FoxOnTheRun]

43. Nobody said the Democrats will save us.

That's why you have to vote for 911truth candidates or run for office yourself

[rman]

20. not of a mind to say: "we good, they bad" - Yet "Politicians as a whole...

...TOTALLY SUCK"

Interesting contradiction.

If "Politicians as a whole TOTALLY SUCK", then what solution do you propose? Do away with government all together?

[cherokeeprogressive]

26. Actually, I'd LOVE to see the current government dissolved

I say we hold a special election, and bar ANYONE who currently holds a seat in the House or the Senate from running. Bar them from running in future elections as well.

So yeah, I'd like to see the current government done away with.

:think:

[John Q. Citizen]

31. The Constitution be damned, eh? n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

35. A constitutional amendment making it possible would be excellent!

Indeed. It would give politicians something to think about. Career polititions suck, and get paid too much.

[John Q. Citizen]

40. What, in your opinion is the right amount of pay?

[cherokeeprogressive]

44. $75,000

The 3 year average median income of New Jersey (the state with the highest median income)

+25%

My Source for Median Income

[mirandapriestly]

13. According to the latest fake videos, then planning

was conducted from the mountains in Afghanistan.

[cherokeeprogressive]

14. Holy WOW Batman!

You mean Al-Jazeera is in on the MIHOP conspiracy too?! Who knew?!!

Go Figure.

Just goes to show you how much I don't know about the world...

[mirandapriestly]

16. If AJ receives a tape I am sure they will play it, doesn't

mean it's real and it doesn't mean their are in on a "conspiracy". You tend to jump to conclusions,like "The Bush WH said it so it must be true" or "the corporate media said it so it must be true" or "al Jazeera wouldn't publish anything that might cast aspersions on Osama bin laden". Why do you think that? Why do you think the Al Jazeera is biased? Do you think they are more biased than us? Because if not then it would stand to reason that US papers do not publish anything that might look bad for ther Bush White house, if that were true then why believe anything about 911 at all? Because that is where the information came from.

[greyl]

19. That was a small family of straw people, mirandapriestly.

Talk about putting words in someones mouth...

[MervinFerd]

6. It -really- wasn't very hard. Book flights and get to a'port on time.

And they weren't living in caves or 15,000 miles away. They were fairly prosperous Saudis, living in the US after periods in Europe and well-established training bases in Afghanistan.

It's hard to see how anyone can be that crazy and still get to the airport on time, but there seem to be plenty of volunteers for the suicide bombings.

It's a strange world.

[serryjw]

12. Listen to what you are saying

IF it is ACCEPTABLE that it is SO EASY, WHY are we spending 50% of our Federal budget to protect America? Lets just give up!

[greyl]

18. You may consider "listening".

Where did he say it was "acceptable"?
Where did he suggest that Pentagon funding shouldn't be slashed?

Why did you change the subject?

[serryjw]

33. WHERE is the outrage??

.....so I think most americans think that incompetents is acceptable. Have the problems been solved?

[John Q. Citizen]

27. You may have noticed that not one of the OCTs have answered your

question.

First they pretended not to understand your question,

then they diverted your question.

Then they ridiculed.

I have been regularly reading and posting to this forum for a little over month now, and I have yet to see where most OCTs stand on your questions. For instance, in another post where greyl wrote that he doesn't believe the Commission report is "the gospel truth." Yet I still don't know what parts he believes to be true and what parts he believes to be false. He hasn't (that I've seen) offer a critique of the report.

This seems to be the case with most of the OCTs. (There are some exceptions) They won't tell you where they stand on the 9/11 commission report, yet they will endlessly debate, belittle, and object to where you stand. So be prepared.

As to your OP,

I am MIHOP on 9/11 and on the anthrax terrorism.

As to Katrina, I'm LIHOP. They purposely let people drown.

I don't buy the so-called "incompetence" argument. The elites in and allied with this administration have achieved about 90% of their objectives on a broad range of social, economic, foreign policy, judicial, civil rights, and every other area one can think of.

That's not incompetence. They use the appearance of incompetence to cover up their true goals and to cover up the fact that they are socio-paths.

[Nozebro]

28. In fairness, they've never said they WOULD answer questions. Some

people may come here as a partisan and others may be here as advocates who could just as easily argue in favor of either side of the "MIHOP v Stupid But Not Evil" question.

Most of the time, when people don't respond to reasonable questions it's because they either can't or in the usual case of an OCT'er, it's because they know that any answer they give would make them look as foolish and silly as the Bush9/11 Fairy Tale itself.

[John Q. Citizen]

30. I was refering to the OCTs specifically. and not even to all the OCTs.

My feeling is if they are willing to ask questions in a topic and expect an answer, then they should be willing to answer questions themselves.

This topic, if I recall, asks for an answer in the OP. If some are unwilling to address the OP, then why not just find another topic to post in instead of ignoring the OP?

[serryjw]

34. I ususally go 3 rounds

and then drop the thread is no one gets my OP. 9-11 MIHOP and Katrin/Rita LIHOP, I agree

WHAT is OCTs??

[John Q. Citizen]

37. OCT is the Official Conspiracy Theory, as in 19 hijackers acting alone

lucked out and stumbled onto totally undefended airspace, and then lucked out and caused all three buildings to collapse, (even one they didn't hit) the puts on the stock market were just lucky investors hitting the lottery, you know the 9/11 Commission report basically.

OCTs are the adherents to that religion.

[serryjw]

38. WOW! Learn something every day

The alphebet soup becomes confusing sometimes..I like this one, but would prefer to call it something like

Bushit twisted truth, BTT!!

[greyl]

41. Why should serryjw notice a condition that doesn't exist?

It's been pointed out that her question includes false assumptions and needs clarification.
As a result, I think serryjw has abandoned her original question.

For instance, in another post where greyl wrote that he doesn't believe the Commission report is "the gospel truth." Yet I still don't know what parts he believes to be true and what parts he believes to be false. He hasn't (that I've seen) offer a critique of the report.

How many threads about the 9/11 Commission Report are on the first page of this 9/11 Forum? On the first ten pages?

Anyway, I like this point you're making, and I'm pretty sure your quote of me is accurate.
I haven't read the 9/11 Commission Report. I probably know a lot more about alternative 9/11 Conspiracy Theories than I do about the "OCT".

They use the appearance of incompetence to cover up their true goals.

Similar statements could be made anytime a boxer loses a bout.
Are you aware of any power structure in history that feigned incompetence in order to further their true goals? Did Hitler feign incompetence?

[John Q. Citizen]

45. Both Reagan and bush 1 used incompetance as a patsy. Out of the

Loop is an admission that they weren't paying close enough attention, yet few acually believe bush 1 was innocent during Iran/Contra.

Ken Lay "I didn't know."

Lapour, Democratic (in name only) Elections Supervisor in Palm Beach said in essence, 'Oh my, how could I have made such a mistake and broken state law by using a butterfly ballot which caused such confusion among voters.

Israel. We didn't mean to incompetantly bomb civilians.

I will overlook the fact that you brought Hitler into the conversation greyl, and have, by definition, already lost the debate.

[MervinFerd]

36. I didn't say anything like that......

Spending $gadzillions on Smart Bombs and anti-anti-ballistic missiles won't do a damn thing about fanatics with boxcutters.

It does make a lot of contractors a lot of money and -would- keep the world safe for US corporatons--if they weren't tied up in a damn fool war.

[mhatrw]

22. No, it's a strange worldview.

All Muslims are lining up to kill themselves and false flag attacks never happen.

[FoxOnTheRun]

23. Not every Muslim has internet and some are more brainwashed

than the American People.

If Hezbollah would tell them the thing with the 72 virgins is a lie, they would certainly stop.

[greyl]

42. 900ft man of straw.

Nobody said "All Muslims are lining up to kill themselves and false flag attacks never happen."

Did you ever consider that the quality of CTist's arguments may correlate with CTist's credibility?

[treestar]

24. I don't think they lived in caves, though

One of the odd things about suicide terrorists is they are often middle class.

And the big one, Osama, is positively wealthy.

[Nozebro]

29. Osama suicided himself? When did he do that?

nt

[treestar]

32. He's a terrorist, isn't he? No, he lets other people do the suicides.