One question (I hope you guys/gals) will know, have we ever

[kster]

found out, the imformation on the airplanes that crashed in to the buildings on 911? Where they new, old? How long where they in service? Where they in service, then they went out of servce for a long period of time, and then came back into service? I'm just curious about the aiplanes, where about weeks, months and years before the tragedy? Or if they where brand new or old planes?

[kster]

1. kick.nt

[FoxOnTheRun]

2. As far as I know the Loose Change Crew wanted the NTSB data

and it was blanked out

[Make7]

3. Some basic info from the FAA website:

American Airlines - Flight 11

N-Number N334AA
Serial Number 22332
Manufacturer Name BOEING
Model 767-223
Year Manufacturer 1987
Engine Manufacturer GE
Engine Model CF6-80 SERIES
Mode S Code 50722254

United Airlines - Flight 175

N-Number N612UA
Serial Number 21873
Manufacturer Name BOEING
Model 767-222
Year Manufacturer 1983
Engine Manufacturer P & W
Engine Model JT9D SERIES
Mode S Code 51773757

American Airlines - Flight 77

N-Number N644AA
Serial Number 24602
Manufacturer Name BOEING
Model 757-223
Year Manufacturer 1991
Engine Manufacturer ROLLS-ROYCE
Engine Model RB.211 SERIES
Mode S Code 52072030

United Airlines - Flight 93

N-Number N591UA
Serial Number 28142
Manufacturer Name BOEING
Model 757-222
Year Manufacturer 1996
Engine Manufacturer P & W
Engine Model PW2040
Mode S Code 51721341

- Make7

[gbwarming]

4. Check airliners.net for photos of these airplanes thru time

You can find a variety of photos of the airplanes at airliners.net by using the registration number provided by Make7 (eg N644AA) for a keyword search:
http://www.airliners.net/search/index.main
I think these photos are mostly taken by amateur plane watchers and may span many years.

[kster]

5. If you check this video out maybe there

weren't any hijackers on the planes at all, maybe the controls just got taken over, if you watch this video, a small version of a commercial aircraft, is what made me wonder about the actual planes that hit the buildings, and where abouts prior to 9-11.

As crazy as it may sound, if you watch this video it will make you wonder, if you consider that the airplanes hit there target with precision and the fact that they were supposed to flown into the buildings by mere amatures?

http://www.aviationexplorer.com/remote_control_rc_airbus_a380_flight_video.htm

[FoxOnTheRun]

6. global hawk and gps there you go

It's even better because only the person who controls the input is an insider,
not the person who installed the System into the Boing

[kster]

12. Just curious, if this theory is true

do you think that the planes could have just lost all power and communication, and then automatically taken over, kinda like a guided missile, if so you could make this happen so that very very few people knew what they were actually buiding and or installing on them planes.

[John Q. Citizen]

7. I think the remote control theory has a lot going for it. For one thing

It explains the decidedly non-religious behavior of some of the official suspects. There is a lot of evidence Atta and some of his buds who attended flight school in Venice, Florida, liked strippers, booze, drugs, and gambling. I always wondered how they would rationalize driving a plane into a building. They didn't fit the profile.

And of course, the precision high speed piloting, as you mention, seems awfully lucky for people who hadn't actually flown a jet before.

There is also the improbability of 3 or 4 guys being able to control a jet full of scared of crashing pissed off passengers and flight crew with nothing more than box cutters and small pocket knives.

There are plenty of inconsistencies and suspicions about the in flight phone calls.

So yeah, i think it's possible. The theory solves more mysteries than it creates. Especially if one hypothisises that the planes were also rigged with some sort of gas dispersal device that incapacitated the passengers and crew and then they just flew them in on remote.

[kster]

10. If memory serves me , I remember stories

about some of these hijackers having good careers going for them, which would mean, they to were being duped by the government, in order to get them, on those particular flights on 9-11, so that, to complete the governments story, the government would have the pics of them going thru security.

or

B) Atta and crew thought they were doing a regular hijacking, but had no idea that the controls of the plane would be taken over.

or

C) Atta and crew where just a bad group of MFer's who were doing dirty deeds for our government for money, they probably didn't know they where working for the government, but thats how the government was able to lure them into these particular airplanes, on 911, because Atta and crew probably thought, that they were on their way to do their next dirty deed for big money.

My best guess, C, Atta and crew boarded them planes, not to crash them into buildings, but because they thought they were on their way to make more easy money, the government easily set them (Atta and crew) up as the hijackers. A is possible the government could have lured them on the planes with promises of lucrative contracts, but not likely, honest business people would talk, brag or boast to much about those lucrative contracts.

I'm going with C.

Can you tell me a little more about the "lets roll" guys cell call? I don't remember all the details. Thanks

[John Q. Citizen]

11. Here is a post by DUer John Doe II on the phone calls

from flight 93
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=48034

Here is some info on the hijackers in Florida
http://www.madcowprod.com/books.html

And you can read The Book Welcome to Terrorland by Daniel Hopsicker for free at the online library here:
http://www.american-buddha.com/911.welcometoterrorlandhopsicker.htmu

free registration required, and well worth it.

[kster]

14. John Doe II , I believe is correct , flight 93 was the back up

in case one of the RC planes did not hit their target. In other words 93, had 2 missions that day 1)to be back up or 2)If not needed to complete the mission, to create an American hero. I agree with John Doe II, the call never happened. Once the mission was aaccomplished, 93 had to be destroyed, no choice it was equiped with the control boxes. Thats my best guess.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
American Airlines Flight 11 – Boston enroute to Los Angeles

FAA Notification to NEADS 0840*

Fighter Scramble Order (Otis Air National Guard Base, Falmouth, Mass. Two F-15s) 0846**

Fighters Airborne 0852

Airline Impact Time (World Trade Center 1) 0846 (estimated)***

Fighter Time/Distance from Airline Impact Location Aircraft not airborne/153 miles


-------------------------------------------------------------------
United Airlines Flight 175 – Boston enroute to Los Angeles

FAA Notification to NEADS 0843

Fighter Scramble Order (Otis ANGB, Falmouth, Mass. Same 2 F-15s as Flight 11) 0846

Fighters Airborne 0852

Airline Impact Time (World Trade Center 2) 0902 (estimated)

Fighter Time/Distance from Airline Impact Location approx 8 min****/71 miles


-------------------------------------------------------------------
American Flight 77 –Dulles enroute to Los Angeles

FAA Notification to NEADS 0924

Fighter Scramble Order (Langley AFB, Hampton, Va. 2 F-16s) 0924

Fighters Airborne 0930

Airline Impact Time (Pentagon) 0937(estimated)

Fighter Time/Distance from Airline Impact Location approx 12 min/105 miles


-------------------------------------------------------------------
United Flight 93 – Newark to San Francisco

FAA Notification to NEADS N/A *****

Fighter Scramble Order (Langley F-16s already airborne for AA Flt 77

Fighters Airborne (Langley F-16 CAP remains in place to protect DC)

Airline Impact Time (Pennsylvania) 1003 (estimate)

Fighter Time/Distance from Airline Impact Location approx 11 min/100 miles

http://www.standdown.net/noradseptember182001pressrelease.htm

[FogerRox]

8. sure, but isnt it easier to get 20 crazy dudes to do it for you

with a few ex Saudi Air Force Pilots thrown in the mix...

[kster]

9. I recently went to an air show in Chicago

not even if you had 100 crazy dudes and 20 ex Saudi Air Force Pilots, would they have beat our guys, to their targets, especially if our guys where defending their homeland.

Ain't gonna happen, our guys were distracted by something, told to stand down or what ever. But they would not have missed three commercial airplanes in one day.

Maybe, MAYBE, one airplane would have made it, but the second and third airplane would have been reduced to dust, with all due respect to the passengers on them planes, it just wasn't their day, either way.

;)

[cherokeeprogressive]

13. Here's a Question for You

What would we be saying today if on 9-11-2001, the United States Air Force had shot down 4 civilian airliners that had done nothing other than failed to answer calls for ident and strayed from their published flight plan?

None of the planes that had been hijacked were in communication with each other, therefore they would not have known that their plan was destined to fail. THEREFORE they would have continued on their intended course.

What if we had shot them down, one by one? What would the justification have been? That they didn't answer radio messages? Would we now been saying "their radios were broken due to airline de-regulation and DAMN ronnie ray-gun for allowing it to happen?

What if they had been shot down over densely populated areas and killed THOUSANDS on the ground, every one of them? Whose feet would we be laying that little doozy at?

[kster]

15. The United States Air Force would have known,

What the planes were doing

anything after the the hit at 0846 that was in a direct course with a building DEFINITELY should have been, and I'm sorry to say it, shot down.

Not trying to be heartless, but, I would believe the word of the pilots in the United States Air Force, that shot down the planes, over any politicians in our government, yes people may have been killed on the ground, not only from the blown up planes, but from the glass that would have literally been broken, when our guys kicked it in high gear, while ripping thru a city of mostly glass skyscrapers in order to protect us from the attack.

If I'm a passenger on that plane, in the same predicament, I hope the military blows me and that plane to smithereens, rather than let any terrorist hit their target in my country, thats just me.

So yes the, United States Air Force would have had some "splaining" to do, but I would not have had any problem taking them at their word.





Airline Impact Time (World Trade Center 1) 0846 (estimated)
Airline Impact Time (World Trade Center 2) 0902 (estimated)
Airline Impact Time (Pentagon) 0937(estimated)
Airline Impact Time (Pennsylvania) 1003 (estimate)

[cherokeeprogressive]

16. Oh I Beg to Differ...

The United States Air Force followed Payne Stewart's plane from 0952 until 1259:42 without shooting it down, without knowing its intent, and without knowing the status of those onboard. It finally ran out fuel and crashed. Thank the Great Spirit that it crashed in an UNPOPULATED AREA, and took no lives on the ground.

Frosted windows. That's what the USAF pilots saw. WHAT IF THE HIJACKERS OF PAYNE STEWART'S PLANE HAD SPRAY-PAINTED THE WINDOWS?

Come on now. I'm with you on what you or I would have done would we have been onboard those planes on 9-11.

But NO ONE could have known what was going on inside or what the intentions of those in control of the airplane might have been.

"Shoot It Down"

That's your first instinct when an off-course civilian airliner strays from its intended flight plan and refuses to answer radio calls?

Whoa. Shooting down civilian airliners WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN A DECISION LEFT TO THE PILOTS OF THE SCRAMBLED FIGHTERS. EVER.

[petgoat]

18. Payne Stewart's plane was isolated, and there was no reason to

suppose hostile intent. After the second strike on the second tower,
hostile intent was incontrovertible.

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. The Air Force caught up with Stewart's plane

and made visual contact with it. When they got there, they could see right off that the crew and passengers were unconscious. It was apparent that the plane was flying on autopilot and there was nothing they could do to help them. As long as the plane posed no threat to anyone they let it continue to fly.

There is no reason why the Air Force could not do the same with not just one but four different hijacked jet on 9-11. At the least, they could have made visual contact and escorted the planes until they received an order to do something more drastic if need be.

[kster]

21. I'm just offering a theory

and asking some questions, who the decision would have been up to, I really don't know, Nor would I debate you on it.

I just don't really get your thought on this, the Air Force Pilots who are trained to protect our skies, did not drop the ball on 9-11, NO WAY!

Commercial pilots are fling around and above tall buildings EVERYDAY, they aren't hitting those buildings, WHY because they are professionals.

The story would have been believable, to me, ONLY IF the planes that hit the towers would have done it, at the exact at the same time, But they didn't.

You say:

"The United States Air Force followed Payne Stewart's plane from 0952 until 1259:42 without shooting it down, without knowing its intent, and without knowing the status of those onboard. It finally ran out fuel and crashed. Thank the Great Spirit that it crashed in an UNPOPULATED AREA, and took no lives on the ground"

Now ask yourself this, if Stewart's plane would have been on course with a skyscraper, where more lives would have been in jeopardy, what would the Air Force have done then. I think we both know the answer to that.

[petgoat]

17. c-prog, if the flight 93 story is halfway right, the hijackers could have

communicated on cell phones.

What if they had been shot down over densely populated areas

Flights 77 and 93 flew over thinly populated areas. At times, 11 and 175 did too.

My question about 93 is: If it was shot down, what was the hurry? They would have
been over Blair Witch Country another ten minutes, and the FBI knew the passengers
were planning an assault.

[mhatrw]

20. No, it's easier to just use the autopilot.

Just enter the waypoints (x,y & z coordinates) and turn on the autopilot.