The "Loose Change" creators get thrashed in a debate with Mark Roberts.

[Kingshakabobo]

This was posted in a thread the other day. I thought it deserved its own - if it hasn't already been OP'd.

I guess the most stunning part of these debates is when Avery ADMITS their work is crap:

Dylan Avery — “We made that film essentially as a bunch of kids. That’s the reality of the situation; we were a bunch of kids tackling a subject far beyond the scope of any one documentary. I would be the first to admit that our film definitely contained errors, it still does contain some dubious claims, and it does come to some conclusions that are not 100% backed up by the facts…. ”

Also, It's quite telling to see Bermas squirm out of his chair when confronted on his "assholery" regarding the firefighters families and his accusations toward them. I guess THAT'S were the rubber hits the road - these assholes make some pretty serious charges at REAL people - REAL victims. I'm reminded of a prominent DUer, a retired airline pilot, who lost friends on that day....

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=142975074341498508&hl=en - Debate - Part A

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-4070898042073434589&hl=en - Part B

[G Hawes]

1. I saw that video and thought that

avery looked like a deer caught in the headlights most of the time, when he wasn't just nodding off, wholly disengaged. it's as if he wasn't even there until he spoke up to admit that the loosechange video was crap. the other guy, bermas, just looked like an ass throughout. mark roberts trashed the loose with the troof boys, of course, but it was still surprising to see how badly the loose boys performed.

[Kingshakabobo]

2. There is another video....

......of the Loose Change kids with that Jones character where they barge in to a NY restaurant and start hassling uniformed service people. That Jones guy is a whole different level of assholery.

[G Hawes]

17. Oh yes, I saw that one too.

If it's the one I'm thinking of, he then follows them down the street mouthing off too. Jones is the epitome of assholery, without question and the service people were the epitome of professionalism despite his ranting, raving BS.

I think the loose with the truth boys were there as well. They have no class whatsoever. I've seen other videos and heard other radio shows with them laughing at the victims and spewing all sorts of lies about the victims as well, and it's quite sickening.

[rman]

3. who cares about Loose Change

Let them try debunk "9/11 Press for Truth", "9/11 Mysteries" and "Everyone's got to learn sometime"

[MervinFerd]

4. Those have been debunked, too.

Or hadn't you heard?

[Ezlivin]

5. Yeah, but you admitted to being involved with gov't disinfo

So we don't believe anything you say any longer.

Debunked? The earth being the center of the universe has been debunked. But alternate theories of what happened on 9/11 have not been debunked. Challenged, yes. Debunked, no.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

8. oh my godlessness

I knew you'd find us out sooner or later.

[Ezlivin]

11. No. I didn't know you were a gov't agent as well.

I'll have to write that into my logbook.

[noise]

6. Is your goal

to debunk for the sake of debunking or to find the truth?

I get the sense that some debunkers are protecting an authoritarian worldview..."How dare those terrorist enablers question my leaders who are forced to torture people in secret CIA prisons to keep us safe."

[Anarcho-Socialist]

7. Nice strawman you have there

[Bolo Boffin]

9. Yeah, watch out for little girls in blue gingham dresses. n/t

[salvorhardin]

10. I don't think those two things mutually exclusive...

Some people here enjoy debunking solely for the pleasure of keeping their wits sharp, but by necessity good debunking aids the search for truth by highlighting fallacious thinking. After all, why waste your time on something that's been thoroughly debunked when there are lots of questions still to be answered?

[Bolo Boffin]

12. Good point. n/t

[frylock]

14. hi. welcome aboard..

I hope you weren't expecting an answer from the OCT clique. They spend a lot of time here attempting to debunk what would appear to be an affront to their tender sensibilities. The odd thing is that if you do a search of their posting habits over the past year, you'll find that over 90% of their posts are in this forum. I don't believe in god, but I wouldn't take it upon myself to spend the majority of my time on the board in the religion and theology forum trying to convince people that what they believe in is bogus.

[Kingshakabobo]

16. You are welcome to do a search of MY posting habits.

Since I originated this thread. Let's see if your theory holds water.

[frylock]

20. i don't believe i've seen much of you around here..

so I wouldn't consider you part of the clique that spends 90% of their time here. Perhaps that will change though. FTR, it appears you spend a lot of your time here in the crafts forum. It's nice to have a hobby.

[Kingshakabobo]

21. I spend a lot of my time in arts and crafts?

Wow. I didn't know that. I thought that was a slow moving forum. I don't recall spending "a lot of time" there. Out of 3300? plus posts. Hmm? 50? there 100?

[frylock]

22. just going by the number of hits produced when running a query..

search by author over the last year. It doesn't show the number of posts, just the number of threads one's posted to.

[Kingshakabobo]

23. Well. You need to dig a little deeper. No big deal.

The DIY forum IS a nice place.:)

[frylock]

13. do tell..

Press for Truth debunked? How so? Please post links to back that up, if you would be so kind.

[angstlessk]

15. Honey, you will have to do better than that to make me BELIEVE the following:

Silverstein just 'lucked' into purchasing the WTC 1 & 2 two months before they were attacked. Ashcroft was warned about flying on commercial air lines? The pentagon cancelled many flights scheduled on 9/11...

WTC 7 just happened to collapse moments after it was said to 'pull'..you oct'ers say it was to pull out the firemen...well hallelujah!!! it just happened to 'fall down' moments after the word pull was recorded.

The long weekend before 9/11 the WTC was shut down..and all electronics were cut off...and all bomb sniffing dogs were called off. Neil Bush was on the board of directors for security of the building..and on the insurance company that insured parts of the building.

Of course lets not forget about PNAC and the 'New Pearl Harbor'...

ALL THIS BEFORE ANY AIRPLANE HIT AND THERE IS MORE..

Google videos about 9/11 are over 2,000 which ones support the 'Conspiracy Theory' that 19 highjackers using box cutters and very limited experience as pilots were able to carry out this AND have the 'luck' of three towers collapsing? WOW..IF I BELEIVED IN GOD I WOULD THINK HE WAS ON THE SIDE OF OSAMA BIN LADEN!

[G Hawes]

18. Everything

in your post has been debunked six ways to Sunday a thousand times over. Perhaps you should try reading beyond conspiracy theory sites for information and actual facts about the events of 9/11.

Here are some places to start:

http://www.911myths.com
http://www.debunking911.com
http://www.loosechangeguide.com/LooseChangeGuide.html
http://wtc.nist.gov/
http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=1

[Kingshakabobo]

19. Oh jeez. These aren't even interesting. nt