DU Archive Pages

[seemslikeadream]

http://web.archive.org/web/%2a/http://www.democraticunderground.com

[Bolo Boffin]

1. Feeling better?

Got all that kickatude out? Ready to start new threads and maybe even discuss an actual issue or two?

:hi:

[seemslikeadream]

2. Like this ?

Dungeon Modeling Techniques - The Titanic Test
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x146141

River City Boy Reports Arrival of Wells Fargo Wagon - 20 minutes early
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x146241


NIST Statements On Titanic Hull
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=145547&mesg_id=145547


Wow! The 9/11 Pilots For Truth guy really IS a fucking lunatic

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x146037

[LARED]

5. Why do the you dismiss the investigation of the Titanic?

Don't you want the truth?

[seemslikeadream]

6. make fun of this you're a master

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jFowNFvmUxw

I've been waiting for something to happen
For a week or a month or a year
With the blood in the ink of the headlines
And the sound of the crowd in my ear
You might ask what it takes to remember
When you know that youve seen it before
Where a government lies to a people
And a country is drifting to war

And theres a shadow on the faces
Of the men who send the guns
To the wars that are fought in places
Where their business interest runs

On the radio talk shows and the t.v.
You hear one thing again and again
How the u.s.a. stands for freedom
And we come to the aid of a friend
But who are the ones that we call our friends--
These governments killing their own?
Or the people who finally can't take any more
And they pick up a gun or a brick or a stone
There are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire

Theres a shadow on the faces
Of the men who fan the flames
Of the wars that are fought in places
Where we cant even say the names

They sell us the president the same way
They sell us our clothes and our cars
They sell us every thing from youth to religion
The same time they sell us our wars
I want to know who the men in the shadows are
I want to hear somebody asking them why
They can be counted on to tell us who our enemies are
But they're never the ones to fight or to die
And there are lives in the balance
There are people under fire
There are children at the cannons
And there is blood on the wire

[LARED]

8. Why would I do that? (n/t)

[seemslikeadream]

9. Isn't it your vocation?

[LARED]

10. My vocation is

mechanical engineer (actually far more managing, than engineering these days) and seeker of the truth about the Titanic.

[seemslikeadream]

11. and which do you make a living at?

[LARED]

12. Right now engineering puts food on the table

but I'm hoping to make a few short films about the government coverup of the Titanic OCT. This is important and people NEED to know the truth. If I write a few books about the coverup, get a few speaking engagments, I just might forget the engineering thing.

One thing I have learn about exposing government coverups is there is a lot of money to be made.

[petgoat]

17. Maybe you want to start a Titanic forum? Or maybe you want

to share the space with my must-know information on the
shroud of Turin.

[jberryhill]

30. The Shroud of Turin is a great example

Of people looking at the same physical thing for a very long time, and still coming away with very different opinions about it. It tests the limits of what people can agree they "know" or what they "believe".

I have zero doubt that people will be arguing about the shroud of Turin, JFK, 9/11 and other emotionally charged physical events for a long, long time.

But I'll go out on a limb here and say that if someone posted a 60 second YouTube video entitled "Indisputable Proof that the Shroud of Turin is Real/Fake/Whatever" there'd be people who would dispute it.

"Indisputable Proof" is a hard thing to find in the real world.

[seemslikeadream]

32. again I remind you this is the 9/11 forum

to use mocking and snarky tactics to distract, confuse and fill up space with Titanic crap so to mess with the discussion of 9/11 is wrong.

[jberryhill]

35. The "ignore" button is your friend

If a chicken wire model of the WTC towers illuminates debate on 9/11, then a comparative analysis using that type of model is a legitimate subject for discussion.

Am I running around telling you to shut up about whatever you'd like to post? No.

[seemslikeadream]

36. I don't ignore anyone

and I never told you to shut up, just reminding you the topic of this forum

[jberryhill]

37. And the meta-topic of this forum is

What constitutes "evidence" of something held to be fact.

9/11 is bound to be analyzed for decades, and people are going to hold different opinions, suspicions and conclusions.

I mention the Shroud of Turin, because of its similarity in that regard. It has been around since the 1300's, has been subject to all sorts of analysis, and there still remain sharply divergent ideas about it.

I find these sorts of topics interesting *because* of those aspects of reasoning and belief. So, yes, I do and will continue to draw analogies where they are appropriate.

[SocraticTruths]

38. Just seeing what's going on

I didn't see what was going on with that Titanic bullshit, but it appears that there is paid money going into disrupting this forum. It is impossiible to know who is paid and who is just a sadistic debunker, but you're just getting either a brand of paid astroturfing or a huge dose of useful idiotness. They sound exactly like Fox TV. It doesn't matter what the facts are, it doesn't matter if some people are getting a discussion going, it doesn't matter if tinfoil is weeded out, these asshats (paid?) have two objectives, neither is debunking. They are out to disrupt. They are out to mock. They sound like they are neocons or any other insidious social engineer like Atwater or Rove. I think the ignore button is a good idea. That is what I am doing to Debate Both Sides fakes. These people are everywhere. You get a lot of fake debunkers at DU. Other places you get more fake believers.

[John Q. Citizen]

34. Yet there is much more money to be made in abetting gov. coverups. Asks Ollie North and

Gary Webb's widow.

I think you are mistaken along the same lines as the people who attempt to define people who work for a clean safe environment as the "enviro-industry." They claim there is tons of money to be made in defending the environment from corporate rapists, but here again, the real money seems to be in defiling the environment.

if your theory is correct, that there is a lot of money to be made exposing governement cover-ups, then you should do OK.

On the other hand, if your theory is incorrect, then I would expect you to show a loss for your time and investment.

How much money are you sinking into your plan? And how much time?

[seemslikeadream]

3. and I'll kick important threads whenever I feel like it

[The Lone Groover]

4. "maybe even discuss an actual issue or two?"

Wanna discuss Anthrax?

There's a thread waiting but devoid of any OCTer input except for a lame attempt at anti-semite labeling.

[seemslikeadream]

7. and that is what it's all about here isn't it?

lame

[AZCat]

13. I didn't realize we were a necessary component of any discussion. n/t

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seemslikeadream]

15. Diversion

A maneuver that draws the attention of an opponent away from a planned point of action, especially as part of military strategy.



BTW did you ever notice the name of this forum? Maybe you should ask for a Titanic Forum :shrug:

[SocraticTruths]

19. But Sept.11 should not be the title of this section, that is the problem

DU titles this section as 9/11, but they have made it clear that all conspiracy theories are to be placed here. Now I agree that 9/11 is a huge one that deserves plenty of attention. However, the anthrax thing, e.g., seems to be important in that it could also open up some cans of worms or whatnot. Chemtrails are important too, if only to get it to the peoples' attentions that Frankenscientists wish to control the atmosphere. That is not a conspiracy theory, but is grounded in truth. But when people are astroturfed to believe that everything here is for entertainment purposes only, it enables the sheople to just shut down all critical thinking as regards to the anomalies around us and focus instead on such mundane truths such as that Joe Lieberman is a neocon or that Bill O'Reilly is a creep or that OJ knows some dude named Kato.

[SocraticTruths]

16. DU Archives

I thought I'd start doing my chemtrail postings at DU, but now I am starting to wonder. I tried to do a search of the chemtrail threads that are already here. Evidently one must be a donor to DU to have access to those pages. So it appears that this is more of a dungeon than I ever imagined. My interest is in democracy. There is tons of evidence that there is plenty of fishy stuff going on above us. When one goes to the big chemtrail forums, however, there is tons of fishy stuff being posted to discredit the topic. This is evidence not that chemtrails are a hoax, but rather that there is a concerted effort to portray chemtrails as kooky tinfoil material.

So let's say people are even able to get good threads going here at DU. What happens when the threads eventually fall into the archives? How is the regular Jake/Jane supposed to locate such material? Is this more of a dungeon then than it is portrayed as? Why is there such a need for a million threads on 9/11? I believe that any section that allows for conspiracy theory, but is itself cluttered, not only does this confuse the 9/11, it marginalizes every other topic such as the jfk assassination or any other theories that shouldn't be ignored.

Then you have these career debunkers showing up every thread. It is as if their job is to get all lefties afraid to even consider such topics. What is one to do? Is there someone out there who could round up all the past threads on let's say chemtrails, and then anyone who is interested in chemtrails and the DU threads on such would have access to them? It seems that the structure of this place does not allow for any decent research into this or other topics. It appears that this is a place for people to chat rather than work together to get at deep truths.

I don't know what to do now. I was at another place for a long time putting together many informative posts. Then when I uncovered the fakery within that structure, I was banned, and from what I have heard, that place has become as relevant as any other obscure tinfoil website.

I do not have the time or energy to start my own forum. It simply appears to me that DU is structured so that ultimately any good threads will eventually be lost to the general public. In this way it is no different than the other forums, in which they give the illusion that there is free speech, but that eventually, the free speech is owned by others, those whose task it is to keep the truth hidden.

[seemslikeadream]

18. I will help you in anyway I can

let me know, someone donated so kindly gave my star back to me since I've been posting here the last couple of days, I would like to return the favor to you.

[SocraticTruths]

20. Thanks

Thanks, that is very kind of you. I tried regular engine searching for the threads, but a lot of links to other websites discussing or linking DU came up instead.

So is that a good idea? Do you think chemmies could find a home here? I certainly do not want to step on any toes. I got this one idea where if we could round up all the chemtrail threads and put them on one page, then it wouldn't seem like these threads are such a waste of time. I am curious, if one goes to the engine search for DU and plugs in chemtrails, would all or most of the threads even show up?

Maybe if so, then in the future perhaps I could borrow your access to the archives, find them all and then put them all together, and then return the access to yourself.

I don't see why DU can't break this section into three or so parts, one for the 9/11 and one or two more for the others. In a way it seems structured to make all of us feel belittled for caring about what was up with 9/11, the anthrax, chemtrails, etc.. What these so-called "rationalists" don't understand is that if the powers can torture, start illegal wars, suspend habeus corpus, the signing statements stuff, why can't they see this tinfoil by association strategy going on to get them to stick to whatever "they" allow them to research and discuss? Maybe they let us all know about the crap I just listed, so we just simmer about how evil Bush and Cheney are and then forget that it is the structure of society which is allowing such acts to take place. We get Olbermann and Comedy Central for venting while all the horrors continue.

I find that it is very easy for the common American to continue to believe that this is the greatest country on earth. They certainly aren't getting the info they need from the tv or newsprint. Then when they go to the internet they are confronted with finding truth needles in haystacks.

[AZCat]

21. The archives only go back to the beginning of 2004 for the 9/11 forum.

Here is the list of threads that primarily cover chemtrails (although I might have missed a few):

Chemtrail program on Discovery Channel just starting

US answer to global warming: smoke and giant space mirrors

Birds falling from the sky all over the globe!

Is HAARP capable of affecting the weather?

Are Chemtrails dangerous?

Weather Modification? Is it Weather Warfare???

Experimental Weather Modification Bill Sen. #517-House #2995 Fast Tracking

Phantom Cloud over Germany (Chemtrail related?)

Chemtrails Fact or Fiction? Media is starting to report:

Chemtrails

Chemtrails in the Sky

A question for commercial pilots.

Hutchison (R-TX) Sponsors Weather Modification Bill (S.517)

Can anyone explain "Chemtrails"?

Chemtrails (Operation Cloverleaf)...

Parrallel con-trails, what the heck are they?

watch the skies -uh...this has nothing to do with 911

USAF/Navy Chemtrails : Ethnic Cleansing in Iraq : Millions Dead

watch the skies

I hope this helps.

[seemslikeadream]

23. archives starting Sep-26-01 01:23 AM

http://web.archive.org/web/20031020014827/www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=list&forum=DCForumID43&mm=0&archive=yes


check out the Meeting Room, lots of chemtrail stuff there, I'll look more later when I have more time :hi:

[AZCat]

24. Cool - thanks SLAD.

I had forgotten that the original forum was called that ("9/11, Military Affairs, and Terrorism"). I had also forgotten that "The Meeting Room" houses chemtrail threads as well as the 9/11 Forum.

[seemslikeadream]

25. When you've been here as long as I have

you get to know where all the bodies are buried! And also what certain people are up to.

[AZCat]

26. I don't know what the second part means...

but I haven't buried any bodies - we cremate the dead in my family. Perhaps you're related to that girl I grew up with whose grandparents ran the local mortuary? I can imagine they'd have a pretty good idea where some bodies are (not that these are the specific bodies of which you speak).

You have been here a long time though - several years longer than me, although I was a long-time reader of the Top Ten Conservative Idiots, perhaps going back to #1 (the ol' memory fails to accurately reach back that far).

[SocraticTruths]

27. Thanks to everyone

Thanks to everyone for helping me with the technical side of finding old threads and about the meeting lounge, welcoming me, etc.. I know what you mean about how if you are at a forum for a while, you start to see some patterns prodding one into contemplating the intentions of others. For anyone who has been at CTC, Megasprayer, and Gastronamus over the last year, you know who I am. But it doesn't matter about our user names. Sure it helps to get to know people if you're gonna be interacting with them for more than a here or there, but I am just trying to say that it is the truth that matters, it doesn't matter if someone has some prolific internet name dating from 2000 or from 2006. There are all these forces trying to get us running in circles, from the insidious fifth column disinformationalists to the mocking "debunkers" with their hit and runs and their inability to interact with the materials/ideas one presents.

But heck, we do know why this is called the dungeon, it is because it seems to have been established to give the false impression of free speech while tainting subjects as 9/11, chemtrails, anthrax, JFK assassination as kooky fruit loops.

So you have photos like these which look like Frankensteinian geoengineering.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=228&topic_id=15432&mesg_id=15444>disgusting pics

But then you end up with the webmaster locking the thread.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=228&topic_id=15432&mesg_id=15457>"Locking: Chemtrails are Kooky."

If this isn't primarily about tinfoil by association blocking this story and others from hitting the mainstream, then I don't know what can explain what is going on with the internet.

[seemslikeadream]

28. SocraticTruths could you try fixing those links

they're not working and I'd like to take a look at them, thanks

[SocraticTruths]

29. sorry

They work for me. I am new to how this forum uses the url= type codes, I was trying not to bust up the margins, but here they are, I will edit again if you want me to.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=228&topic_id=15432&mesg_id=15444

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=228&topic_id=15432&mesg_id=15457

Thanks for your patience.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[seemslikeadream]

33. With their hearts they turned to each other's heart for refuge

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hXI9kAVOYaI



BEFORE THE DELUGE

Some of them were dreamers
And some of them were fools
Who were making plans and thinking of the future
With the energy of the innocent
They were gathering the tools
They would need to make their journey back to nature
While the sand slipped through the opening
And their hands reached for the golden ring
With their hearts they turned to each other's heart for refuge
In the troubled years that came before the deluge

Some of them knew pleasure
And some of them knew pain
And for some of them it was only the moment that mattered
And on the brave and crazy wings of youth
They went flying around in the rain
And their feathers, once so fine, grew torn and tattered
And in the end they traded their tired wings
For the resignation that living brings
And exchanged love's bright and fragile glow
For the glitter and the rouge
And in a moment they were swept before the deluge

Now let the music keep our spirits high
And let the buildings keep our children dry
Let creation reveal its secrets by and by
By and by--
When the light that's lost within us reaches the sky

Some of them were angry
At the way the earth was abused
By the men who learned how to forge her beauty into power
And they struggled to protect her from them
Only to be confused
By the magnitude of the fury in the final hour
And when the sand was gone and the time arrived
In the naked dawn only a few survived
And in attempts to understand a thing so simple and so huge
Believed that they were meant to live after the deluge

Now let the music keep our spirits high
And let the buildings keep our children dry
Let creation reveal its secrets by and by
By and by--
When the light that's lost within us reaches the sky

Jackson Browne



Believed that they were meant to live after the deluge

[Make7]

22. Try this google search for mentions of chemtrails on DU:

http://www.google.com/search?q=site:www.democraticunderground.com+chemtrails

- Make7