could someone summarize the prevailing theories of 9/11

[leftofthedial]

I'm not a DU newbie, but I haven't read the 9/11 forum in a long long time and the threads all dive in at the middle of some very convoluted theories.

There seem to be two camps: the official story camp and the it was a conspiracy and didn't happen the way the TV told us it did camp.

Where can one find (preferably brief) summaries of these two views?

[Abe Linkman]

1. No question about one thing: 9/11 happened as the result of a conspiracy

" the official story camp and the it was a conspiracy"

The issue is: who are the conspirators? Were they OBL's gang or ___?

[DuctapeFatwa]

2. Very Very Brief Summaries

Official: It was evildoers who hate freedom

unofficial 1 We don't know and we shouldn't ask

unofficial 2 we don't know and we should find out

unofficial 3 Think of it as a "unity operation"

unofficial 4 It was a business plan

unofficial 5 It was a conspiracy involving chemtrails, UFOs and fluoride

[Abe Linkman]

3. That clears it up for me.

Just one question, please: tell the truth - was David Copperfield involved? You don't have to say whose conspiracy he was retained to work for, I just want to know if the boy "worked" on it.

Bonus question: did Mr. Copperfield work on WTC AND the Pentagon? I could "see" him really getting into the challenge of doing both.

[DuctapeFatwa]

4. Mr. Copperfield has been strangely silent, now that you mention it...

Some have asked how Mohammad Atta's passport survived unscathed.

Yet closer examination and interrogation reveals that these same individuals have seen David emerge equally unscathed from small areas of a very fiery nature, yet they seem reluctant to speak out...

[Dancing_Dave]

14. David Copperfield and the Bush Regimes illusions

I first ran accross David Copperfields name in connection with 9/11, while reading some French author. I took it as a witty remark, since the Bush Administration does rely so much on dissimulation and illusion, maybe we should talk to the master of illusions David Copperfield about it. He must see through their game!

But on further reflection, I would not put it past those neo-con's to actually hire David Copperfield as a "consultant"....

[DuctapeFatwa]

22. Anything is possible, but I was joking about David Copperfield

My post about him and Atta's passport was intended to be humorous, however, if Jack van Impe is being consulted on how best to hasten the Rapture, I guess if it turns out that Copperfield was consulted on I have no idea what, I should not be shocked and awed.

[demodewd]

28. Mohammed Atta

....the "leader" highjacker with high media visibility. Of course it would have to be HIS passport that miraculously survived!

[WilliamPitt]

19. I likes unofficial 5, me

Ties everything together nicely.

[leftofthedial]

5. I guess I jumped right into the middle of the flames with both feet

Let's start over

I think I understand the official explanation (although it doesn't make sense).

I also understand that a number of the participants here ridicule any suggestion that it didn't happen that way.

What I'd like to find out is what theories have been put forth.

I didn't see any that involve space aliens or other crap.

Four planes? a different number of planes? missiles? pre-planted explosives? why was their no air intercept? who did this, if it wasn't al Qaeda?

what are the theories?

[DuctapeFatwa]

6. 2 questions: who had the resources? who made money?

The more you read, the more questions will emerge, but those two should get you started.

[QuietStorm]

7. that is for sure the more you read

the more questions emerge and the more disgusting it gets.

[QuietStorm]

8. BTW thanks for the laugh all...

It might just be the first one I have had all day. How do you like dancing daves post in the 9/11 transcripts were released. rockets, lasers from space and human sacrifice as brought to us by NIST very early on with a hose like sound emitted by rays hitting the spire at the top of the trade center. Man. I still can't do the trade center. I look at the pictures I become nauseated still to this very day.

TREES DTF TREES!!

[Dancing_Dave]

9. Is there more than one NIST? The 1 I refered to isn't at all far out!

It's just some letters and there could easily be more than one organization so abreviated. I'm talking about the NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF STANDARDS AND TECHNOLOGY. Check out what they say at http://wtc.nist.gov/ . There's nothing far out in there whatsoever. It's a conservative and meticulous scientific study mainly focused on the fires. They don't mention any martians. There really must be more than one organization abreviated NIST, because this one I'm referring to isn't the slightest bit far out, if anything their research suffers from being a bit to cautious, and delaying talking about anything likely to be controversial!

[QuietStorm]

10. from another forum

one of my posts (dd feb 17 2003) only having arrived on the pentagon investigation I came across this.... on the NIST forum dated 2002 which brought me into my first hypothesis of what happened at the pentagon which I called a plane intercept missile interception.

THE NIST BLURB

High-Tech Testing

High-Tech "Testing" on Human beings, buildings, and/or planes, etc. might have taken place during 9/11 Barbaric, deadly events, are surprisingly full both in old and new data.

It is precisely at 2001, that NIST scientists received a prestigious international prize for their research about "Lasers" made of Particles from Matter, considered to be much more Powerful than Lasers made of Photons from Light, (already used for Weapons, Industry, etc). But, a strange coincidence is that a Film reminded by observers had already staged a Scenario showing WTC attacked from Satellites, above, with a Laser-beam touching first its long Antenna, before destroying all the building. And real 9/11 Video footage, shows, indeed, that at WTC's North Tower, the strange, deadly implosion started, precisely, first by a curious "diving" of its huge Antenna downwards, swallowed deep inside the building, long before the overall structure started to collapse. Moreover, most witnesses described their surprise from that kind of "White Dust" like "Snow" into which all WTC suddenly "Disintegrated". Others spoke precisely of "Falling Particles", while Columbia NY Scientists registered Data reminding them a "Flow of lava" made of particles of materials. Surprisingly, but characteristically, various Ear-witnesses (who communicated by phones with parents or friends inside WTC) described, at the tragic moment, a strange "Hose-like sound".

Meanwhile, Electro-Magnetic Pulse, and/or various Particle-acceleration new weapons are widely discussed and expected to be soon "tested" by US Army against Iraq.

- Organizations linked to "Military Transports" used data from events similar to WTC and Pentagon Fires in order to develop "Defense Techniques" "understanding the response of Fluid Filled Tanks subjected to Bomb Blasts".

"Key-info" on early fires was taken from "similar" exercises, "used" in relation to the "Rupture of Fuel Tanks and Fuel dispersal", an expert told NIST"s Hearing on WTC collapse at NY (6/2002).

But, controversial "Fuel Tanks" were placed in dubious circumstances by NYC during Giuliani's times inside WTC 7, and possibly even WTC 1 or 2, where this could explain a great part of destruction caused by many "simultaneous", "secondary Fires", which appeared after and/or independently of Airplanes' hits.

(At Pentagon, a strange phenomenon of Fire spreading horizontally across an area more than 5 times larger and longer than the Plane's impact, might also be explained eventually by similar, controversial "Fuel Tanks").

-----

THE ABOVE BLURB PROMPTED THIS POST WHICH CAME BEFORE MY HYPOTHESIZE WHICH I HAVE BASICALLY RESTATED IN ONE OF POSTS IN THE EASTMAN THREAD OR THE PENT 3 THREAD SO I AM NOT INCLUDING IT BELOW:


Unfortunately, I am not sure there are any updates on the NIST investigation. Probably not.

and we are in here arguing trees and winds and eyewits, audio vids, who's dumb, who's smart who's dis, who's dat? Well, guess what? It might be bigger than that! Prove it.

Evidence is carted away - Guilliani with his fuel tanks trying to put his doc's in storage. while washington schmoozes on the peace process in the middle east. Ah! and yes the palestinian state they been talking about since 1947. Time may have done run out and let the monster out! And guess what! it's not new news either.

Laser weaponry. According to one documentary, Dan Rather did report the first story out on it's alleged testing. Mainstream didn't support it. Nobody wanted to talk about it. Just conspiracy theory. Prove it! Testamonies classified and very recently reclassified.

and what do we got here rudeness and condescencion, and one advising another one who not to be fooled by?

And Guess What It's right before our eyes. And maybe there is nothing that can be done to change it or stop it. whatever is meant to unfold will. As millions take it to the street GLOBALLY! And hopefully they'll listen.

I don't think they have been listening. Because there was no one prompting the eye wits on the scene at the pentagon that day to get them to say that sound they heard: was it kind of like a "Hose-like sound"?

Following logical modes of thought? Hah! It's the official story folks! take it or leave.

-------

I was quite volatile when I first arrived. Ah yes and fun was had by all.

This is the original link it brings you to what I now believe are more up dated pages if you look through the first web page that opens up you will find the being portion of the blurb I captured above... howver that particular link does not work anymore...

http://www.freewebs.com/allthetruth/

[QuietStorm]

11. oh btw

I must have confused you. I did really mean to indicate your third post in the transcript thread was OK as in Good the dots you connect there. I am a bit zapped today... which means it is best I hold my tongue.

My little rant above the NIST post is quite irrelevant really. I started out responding to the early call in's where man 2 states it might have been a rocket that hit the tower... and then warped out into my recollection of the NIST Blurb I placed above... mostly to indicate not disbelief of what you had posted in that 9/11 WTC transcript thread, but more to demonstrate the insanity of what happens when an official story is so impossible to believe.

If that makes sense? I get like this sometimes. It happens when too much emotion comes up. The WTC remains a place I can not go. Especially if there are pictures.

[Dancing_Dave]

13. Hey man, I understand

And really feel the same way Nauseated. As does everyone else who begins to figure this scam out.

It seems you may have come accross a post that put a bit of a spin on some NIST studies that made them seem a little more far out than they were.
A new type of high powered lasers, sometimes called Disintigrator Beams, do actually exist and it's possible that the NIST did get into testing them at some time. But as I noted before, this technology seems to so far be an extremely expensive way to disintigrate small household objects. The Pentagon was happy when they spent millions of dollars and zapped a plate to dust! It's pretty doubtful that this technology could have made much difference on the Twin Towers, but some people were reminded of it when they saw what fine dust most of the WTC was reduced to. But you can achieve that result by using enough traditional explosives.

I hope the sickening criminals who were really behind this will be tried some day. Even if that doesn't happen we can probably get enough of the truth out to enough people to kick them out of the Whitehouse and Pentagon in 2004

Peace :)

[Dancing_Dave]

15. Now that Sci Fiction disintigrator beams have become real...

Here's a pretty good article on directed energy or disintigrator beem technologies, which some people believe may have been tested on 9/11:
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/bollyn1.htm

I've been following the health impact of 9/11 on New York (as well as I can without actually LIVING there anymore), and I was concerned that very dangerous experimental weapons leaving long term effects, could have been tested there on 9/11...and we know for sure that radioactive weapons systems have been tested in Afghanistan and Iraq recently, with frightful and sickening effects on everyone including our own troops.

I don't know if the disintigrator beam weapons now exist on a scale which could have made much difference on 9/11. If you read the article carefully, you will note that the really proven abilities of the experimental lasers in the U.S. and Israel is not really that impressive yet. You will note that the whole story dramatically builds up to an incident where they disintigrate a plate. Wow.

[Dancing_Dave]

12. There's more than two, but here's one

Mainly in other forums, there's been a lot of discussion of the neo-con agenda as first articulated by PNAC. VP Cheney, Secretary of Defence Rumsfeld, and several other people who now have high positions in the Bush Administration signed this infamous manifesto before Bush was elected. It called for a global American Empire that would fall into place after "a Pearl Harbor like event" would "catalyze" us into such an imperialist military state.

In the first months of the Bush Administration, the neo-cons could not find nearly enough support to put in their militarist agenda. President Bush was very unpopular by the summer of 2001, and the Republicans lost their slight majority in the Senate when one Republican Senator decided he didn't want to be in the same party as Bush and the Neo-Cons. But ever since the neo-cons got their New Pearl Harbor on 9/11, they've definately gotten their agenda going, and the results have been disasterous.

There were some more dimensions of greed and desperation among these high level crooks who wanted to rule the world. The Bush Dynasty and many of these Neo-Cons had financial ties to Enron, a scam ridden gigantic corporation that was in deep trouble by the Summer of 2001. Their last hope was to make big bucks by putting in a pipeline through Afghanistan to Central Asia, where's there's lots of oil and natural gas (and National Security Council director Condoleeza Rice has millions of dollars of investments). Enron was trying to strike a deal with the Taliban, which both Bush Administrations had supported, but they couldn't strike a deal that seemed profitable enough to Enron So there was a sudden reversal of U.S. foreign policy, the Taliban became the enemy, and a plan for invading Afghanistan was drawn up and ready on President Bush's desk just days before 9/11. Not that the American people would have supported invading another country just so members of the Bush Administration could make millions of dollars on top of the millions they've already got. Of course, the American people would not support any such thing, but then along comes 9/11 right on time and the Bush Administration has plenty of support for invading Afghanistan!

The U.S. Government immediately fingered Al Qaeda as the conspirators behind 9/11. But it didn't take long before some especially well informed people around the world were noting that AL QAEDA COULD NOT POSSIBLE HAVE DONE THIS ALONE, AND IT HAD TO BE SOME KIND OF AN INSIDE JOB. Gore Vidals great essay "The Enemy Within" takes the story about that far.
http://burningbush.netfirms.com/Vidal.html

I stopped believing the official story when I saw the World Trade Center come down in exactly the unmistakeable pattern of a building being demolished by a series of carefully time bombs going off at key structural points right down the building. Further study has confirmed that yes, that's exactly what it was:
http://home.comcast.net/~jeffrey.king2/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
And this scientific analysis lines up perfectly with the testimony of many people who were in or near the buildings, and actually heard many explosions that day. It was all set up!

There are also very strong arguments that Flight 77 or any other Boeing 757 could not have been what crashed into the Pentagon. A cruise missle, or perhaps a light remote controlled fighter plane that also shot a missle, could cause the kind of damage we saw to the Pentagon...and there's just no 757 to be found there! This all points the finger back at a faction in the U.S. Government who had both buisness and political reasons for wanting this New Peal Harbor to happen: the Neo Cons.

[leftofthedial]

29. I agree, the damage didn't seem to match the stated cause

But didn't they find DNA (body parts) of passengers in the Pentagon wreckage?

[Dancing_Dave]

16. Dick Eastman's Pentagon Theory and Related Views

Dick Eastman's theory is summerized at http://www.physics911.org/index.php/docs/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=29&mode=thread&order=0&thold=0
With plenty more evidence in the links at the bottom of that article

Someone known as ronboy develops similar ideas very persuasively at
http://www.911pi.com/main.htm

[Bushknew]

17. Some Reasons to believe 911 was a Conspiracy

We all agree that a conspiracy against the United States happened on 911; however, some think it was Arab terrorists, I believe and many people on this forum believe it was the Bush administration.

For those who believe Arab terrorists were responsible for 911, please answer this question:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
If the Bush administration didnÕt orchestrate 911, how did a passport from one of the hijackers survive a plane explosion and the fall of tons of concrete and still be legible?

Please explain the physics of that.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Unbelievable Evidence

1. The "evidence" that a passport survived a plane explosion and tons of concrete falling upon it (and was recovered so soon after the attack, THE NEXT DAY!) is unbelievable.

<<On Sept. 12 ABCNEWS sources identify another hijacker as Satam Suqami, a Saudi national on American Airlines Flight 11, whose passport was recovered in the rubble.>>

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_MAIN010912.html

2.The "evidence" presented by US Attorney General John Ashcroft of a the four-page handwritten letter having survived the plane explosion at the WTC AND at the Pennsylvania crash site is unbelievable.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/28/archive/main312898.shtml

3. The religious items of the hijackers found by Chief Master Sergeant John Monaccio is unbelievable considering how little of the 757 was left at the Pentagon.

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/pentagon-email_20020316.html


Here's an interchange between the official story camp and the conspiracy camp on DU 1

http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=5527&forum=DCForumID43&archive=yes


http://www.democraticunderground.com/cgi-bin/duforum/duboard.cgi?az=show_thread&om=5493&forum=DCForumID43&omm=0

[Bolo Boffin]

18. Here ya go.

Although there are more than two. Each person here has their own particular blend of what happened or not.

The Official Story from the Bush Administration: Al Qaeda hijacked planes and flew them into the WTC Towers and the Pentagon. A fourth hijacked plane crashed into a Pennsylvania field when passengers tried to retake the plane. We were blindsided by this attack, and we're working to ensure it never happens again.

There are various memes that deny the "official" meme. The two biggest acronyms to know are:

MIHOP: made it happen on purpose. Various members of the Bush Administration* planned and carried out 9/11 as a Reichstag Fire incident.

and

LIHOP: let it happen on purpose. Various members of the Bush Administration* learned of this planned attack, but allowed it to occur to score a Reichstag Fire incident.

*Which various members of the Bush Administration to include in either scenario varies from person to person, but a lot of emphasis goes toward the neoconservatives in the Administration (they're called New Cons or Zionists). W is almost universally assumed NOT to have any real knowledge of said planning or allowing.

There are alternate theories of what actually occured during the 9/11 attacks, due mainly to key evidence being withheld by one of the most secretive administrations ever in US history.

Some believe the explosion at the Pentagon was not caused by Flight 77. Proposed alternatives include a fighter jet, a cruise missile, a jet/missile combo, a truck bomb, or a bomb inside the Pentagon.

Some believe the WTC towers, after being struck by the passenger jets, were then further assisted in their collapse by a controlled demolition.

Some believe that WTC 7 was also demolished by controlled explosives later that day.

Other main 9/11 memes:

• the Barbara Olson phone calls from Flight 77 (considered by some to be a lie of Ted Olson, a practiced liar)
• the pre-9/11 briefings of the president - what did he know and when did he know it
• the hijackers alive and well in the Middle East (identify fraud is unquestioned, but who stole these identities is in dispute)
• Israeli involvement in the attacks
• Saudi Arabian involvement in the attacks
• the magic passport (Magic Bullet II)
• remote controlled airplanes
• the passengers of all four planes collected somewhere
• questions about interception of hijacked planes by fighter jets
• the unusual actions of Bush on that day

And my personal take on the day: Official Story Plus. I think the Bush Administration is involved in a massive coverup of their incompetence and negligence in the 9/11 attacks, especially of the actions they took that allowed the attack to happen under their greedy little noses. America was sucker-punched that day, and it's the incompetence of the Bush Administration that set us up for it.

I hope that helps.

[DuctapeFatwa]

20. LIHOP & MIHOP are old tinfoil. DIFOM is the boring obvious answer

DIFOM (Did it for Oodles of Money)

[Abe Linkman]

21. If the Aministration "set us up for it," that's MIHOP

"I think the Bush Administration is involved in a massive coverup of their incompetence and negligence in the 9/11 attacks, especially of the actions they took that allowed the attack to happen under their greedy little noses. America was sucker-punched that day, and it's the incompetence of the Bush Administration that set us up for it."

The above is vague. What "actions" did they take "that allowed the attack to happen"?

I trust you will give a substantive response. The rest of us who also believe the MIHOP version makes the most sense want to hear more from you, because you seem to have more and better insider information than we do - so go ahead. Don't hold back.

[Bolo Boffin]

26. My "insider" information

Why, thanks! I didn't know you cared.

I just wanted to sum up the basic idea of my own view, and retyped the quoted paragraph about five times. But that's the basic premise: Bushian incompetence allowed the attacks to happen, along with their braggadocio.

The number one miscalculation by the Bushistas: they didn't feel that Al Qaeda could nut them the way they did. Bush didn't just come up with "Bring it on," for the Iraqi resistance. It's his whole philosophy, and he badly misjudged the ability of Al Qaeda to attack America. His comment about firing a expensive missile into a $10 tent and hitting a camel in the butt was a slam on Al Qaeda just as much as it was against Bill Clinton - that's the way he sees them. And if Al Qaeda did pull off some kind of attack, well, then we get to punch them back, and that's more military in the Persian Gulf.

The incoming administration was explicitly warned about Al Qaeda and their capabilities and they drug their feet on doing something about it - that was Clinton-era policy, and Bush was the anti-Clinton.

Since Al Qaeda was something only Bill Clinton could be afraid of, BushCo concentrated most fiercely on finding a way to invade Iraq, their real goal. All I remember from the Bush team from the moment the election was decided was the incredible fix for energy our country was in. They were trying to build a domestic case for invading Iraq. Conservation won't do it - we need the oil in ANWR, we need the oil wherever we can get it, because (and this is the truth) our economy is based heavily on oil. Oil fuels our military, fuels the cars, justifies the interstate system and other roads. Oil provides jobs - the car builders, the road builders, the salesmen, the service stations, the truckers, railroad, airliners, etc. I'd say 75-80% of our economy is heavily endebted to the flow of oil, and I pulled that figure out of my behind - it's just my guess. Whoever controls the oil controls America, and that's no lie.

This is why Saddam had to go. He was a potential threat to the entire nation going belly up, and it's because of something called the global oil production peak.

http://www.hubbertpeak.com/summary.htm
The Hubbert Peak for World Oil

Theory:

It is widely accepted that oil is a finite resource; there are basic laws which describe the depletion of any finite resource:

* Production starts at zero;
* Production then rises to a peak which can never be surpassed;
* Once the peak has been passed, production declines until the resource is depleted.

These simple rules were first described in the 1950s by Dr. M. King Hubbert, and apply to any relevant system, including the depletion of the world’s petroleum resources.

The rate of production of a natural resource can be plotted on a graph against time. This gives a picture of the lifetime of that resource…


Figure 1
This graph depicts world oil production to date.
The vertical line indicates the probable midpoint of depletion as identified by Campbell.

It is important to note that the point of maximum production (known as the Hubbert Peak) tends to coincide with the midpoint of depletion of the resource under consideration. In the case of oil, this means that when we reach the Hubbert Peak,

we will have used half of all the recoverable oil that ever existed on our planet.

Hubbert predicted the US oil production peak (the production peak of oil within the lands of the United States). It happened in the late 70's. Remember the late 70's? The corporations freaked and started scaring the consumers into the fold of Reagan. Gas lines, OPEC, all of that? From that point on, control of the remaining supplies of oil was paramount to corporate and US interests. The stakes are this high because we as a nation are a nation of oil junkies. If we were to be deprived of our national drug, the withdrawal pains would shake this nation apart.

So the Reagan-Bush administrations installed and maintained a Punch-and-Judy show in the Middle East to keep the region unstable and provide a supremacy for their very own Saudi Arabian interests - the Iran-Iraq war. They supplied both Iran and Iraq with weapons and intelligence, and Iraq with a thug, a Beast Rabbon if you will, for a leader. Saddam, however, turned on his benefactors at the close of the Iraq-Iran war, and he became the problem to eliminate, which is what the Bushistas wanted. Now they had an potent excuse to invade Iraq and gain control of the oil fields.

Bush the Elder tried to draw the game to a close in the first Gulf War. Whoops, we gave Saddam permission to invade?? How naughty of us! But at the time, Bush wasn't allowed to go further. And things got so bad at home, that Bush the Elder wasn't going to get a second term to finish Saddam off. Fine, BushCo thought. They'd put the Beast in a box (sanctions), regroup, and take over the government after Clinton's second term - the technology bubble was easy to see coming, and whoever was President in 1996 could choose his successor (Clinton, naturally, chose himself). Then with the government fully in hand in 2000, they could grab Iraq away from the idiot they left in charge, use the controlling interest in the world's second largest oil reserve to finally bring Saudi Arabia to a weaker position at the OPEC table, and then clamp down on Egypt to gain control of the Suez Canal, which is the bottleneck for oil distribution to the West.

“Iraq is the tactical pivot, Saudi Arabia the strategic pivot, Egypt the prize.”

All in time for the coming global oil production peak, which right now is calculated to occur sometime in the first decade of the twenty-first century. Any day now, in other words.

So Iraq had to go. And the "towelheads" that Clinton was concerned about? They got shoved to the back burner.

Meanwhile back in Afghanistan, Osama saw it all happening. He saw the ruling family of his homeland selling their souls to the devil. He had enough contacts with the old country to run interference for operatives, and to supply them with funds (mostly donated from supporters). And he saw that Bush underestimated him. Suddenly the surveillance, harsh under Clinton, was GONE. It was next to nothing. In this new freedom, he carried out a deadly attack on America, using the diplomatic protection given to Saudis by the Bushes as shelter for his organization's movements. Why? Because he didn't want the United States turning Saudi Arabia into MeccaDonaldLand. He tried to throw a wrench into the machinery.

But within hours of the attack, Rumsfeld had Iraq in his OUT box. The game was afoot. Al Qaeda had "brought it on," and now they could be dealt with while getting into position for the Iraq invasion.

But more incompetence awaited the Bush team: they thought Saddam was still stocking WMD, when he was actually destroying them. They also thought that Al Qaeda and Saddam had to have ties - it's what they would have done, after all. But Al Qaeda had no interest in the secular Arabic nationalist, thought I believe Saddam would have cooperated with them in a heartbeat, had they wanted to. And now the resistance in Iraq is running around blowing up rival clerics and knocking loose a body bag a day or more from American forces. And still the bastard says, "Bring it on."

They have been played as fools from day one. It's their nimrod hardons that got us into this godawful mess, but they keep striving for the prize, because then they can write the history books. Then they'll be the second coming of George Washington.

Now am I a oonspiracy cool kid, or what?

[TolstoyAndy]

30. Re: oil production peak

Check out http://dieoff.org

Tons of links, so much detail it hurts the brain. The basic thesis:

"Petroleum geologists have known for 50 years that global oil production would 'peak' and begin its inevitable decline within a decade of the year 2000. Moreover, no renewable energy systems have the potential to generate more than a tiny fraction of the power now being generated by fossil fuels.

In short, the end of oil signals the end of civilization, as we know it."

:scared:

[leftofthedial]

25. thanks!

for the summaries.

Apologies to the late Mr. Hope.

[JackRiddler]

23. here's a poll of DU views...

I managed to divide the hypotheses into 9 different versions... the most popular one here was "Wishing for Pearl Harbor," i.e. they intentionally blocked pre-9/11 investigations and ignored what was coming (though they knew something was coming) figuring it could only be good for them in the end.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=233219

Wishing for Pearl Harbor would be a good way to get away with allowing the attacks but keeping their asses covered, but I think this is wishful thinking. If you're already planning to invade several countries and institute domestic fascism, why take chances on a bunch of amateurs? I therefore lean towards "LIHOP plus," but not "Northwoods" (which would mean no hijackers, the whole thing was a hoax).

I have no doubts that genuine Islamist fundamentalist terrorists exist who want to do really stupid things like blow up the WTC for the great feeling it would give them, even if it obviously hurts their putative cause. I also think they could potentially pull it off, but not in the way we saw (i.e., successfully keeping the airforce on the ground is beyond their capabilities, no matter how clever they are.)

I figure the Hamburg Cell would-be terrorists were well-tracked by CIA and other intel agencies (much evidence of this) and their plan was caught up by a particular faction and enhanced/aided. The real hijackers may have been killed and replaced in advance, to make sure that the plot worked and that they would not interfere in it themselves.

But who the fuck knows.

[QuietStorm]

24. I think LIHOP is wishful thinking

my vote goes with northwoods involving the same crew at work in Iraq. yes certainly there are terrorists that might like to have attacked America which is exactly why Northwoods would work, easy enough to make it look like arabs did it. Just like it would have been easy enough, if northwoods wasn't left on contingency, to have believed cubans had attacked american installations.

I think LIHOP is most popular because it is easy to go there. It becomes clear NORAD DID have time to shoot those planes down and they just didn't. Going further to MIHOP can create quite the identity crisis in many American's. It is just harder to fathom because it messes with one's overall sense of security.

[shatoga]

27. Occam's Razor- simplest explanation is OP Northwoods

No leaps of faith...
No convoluted theories...
No need to explain all the anomalies...

Just the simple recognition that the Pentagon recommended faked attacks on the US and our allies
as bogus justification for invasion of targeted nations.

Occam's Razor:
The simplist explanation that requires the fewest assumptions is probably the correct one.

One assumption.
The Pentagon has been proven to fake bogus attacks in the past.
(Gulf of Tonkin)
and is likely to do so again.
Grounds for the belief is that the Northwoods operational plan Included fake hijacking of airlines.
Terror strikes against civilians.
Bombing of US cities.
All to justify invasion of a target (innocent) nation.


Means
Opportunity
Motive

Who benefitted from the aftermath of 911?
Not itenerant Arabs--Bush & his cronies!
Who had the ability to stand down America's Military and allow the events of 911?


Payne Stewart's plane was followed by five national Guard Jets during Clinton's Administration.
Not one military airplane interfered with the planes that hit the WTC or Pentagon.

That's all the proof anyone should need to prove it was an inside job!