Who here believes...

[wildbilln864]

aliens from other worlds or dimensions are or have been visiting the earth?
I'm curious.

[SDuderstadt]

1. Well, it might explain the "9/11 truth movement"....

but I'm not exactly sure.

[LakeSamish706]

2. I'm not sure either, but it certainly seems possible with the vastness of what...

we know exists out there of late. The release of the Canadian files on UFO's this past week certainly has some interesting information.

[rollingrock]

3. It's like the belief in God

unless you've seen one for yourself, or have credible evidence for them, they don't exist.

[Bolo Boffin]

4. "they don't exist." - not quite

I absolutely believe that life at least as intelligent as us exists in plenty of places in the universe. I think that it could number in the billions of places, as a matter of fact.

But the challenges involved in intergalactic travel and the daunting task of locating another intelligent civilization out there really, really count against contact ever happening, at least for us. It is far more likely and reasonable that there are reasons completely Earthbound for all of that phenomenon rather that extraterrestrial contact.

Just like the existence of God or the historicity of Jesus' resurrection, extraordinary claims like extraterrestrial contact require extraordinary evidence. Ironically enough, the bar is just a little lower for ET contact than for Jesus returning from the dead since ET contact is at least physically possible.

[wildbilln864]

7. Yes.

We agree. Damn! :shrug:

[spoony]

13. I disagree re: Sagan's theory

that "extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence." That never has been, or should be, a standard in logic. Evidence is evidence, and the label "extraordinary"--attached to either claims or evidence--is purely subjective, and far more problematic than helpful in looking at any argument.

[Bolo Boffin]

17. Sagan may use it, but I'm referring to Hume

Who used the principle in his chapter on miracles. Between you and David Hume, I'm choosing Hume. No offense.

[wildbilln864]

18. Sagan doesn't use it because he's dead, btw.

He may have before though. :shrug:

[Bolo Boffin]

21. So is Hume. n/t

[spoony]

22. None taken, though you used Sagan's terms

And between Hume and his critics, I'm choosing the latter as any even potential subjectivity injected into proofs makes the process cease to be logic. A thing, regardless of its consequences if true, is either provable or not by the same principles.

[Bolo Boffin]

26. And to eliminate subjectivity, you need evidence.

I am not personally believing that you sniff at my subjectivity in asking for some actual undeniable evidence in the case of UFOs being extraterrestrial life on a subforum where the advocates for 9/11 Truth swim the wide oceans of subjectivity to press their case for whatever. That astounds me. But then again, after seven years I'm used to the double standard, so whatever.

[defendandprotect]

48. Agree -- plus in this case, it would be the government which has the "evidence."

[defendandprotect]

47. So you believe there is other life in the universe but they have ....

at least the same limitations humans have re space travel and "at least" as intelligent as

us!?

What if they are a billion years ahead of us?

What if simply a million years ahead of us?

What if they are based on the moon?

What if they can travel at accelerated speeds/perhaps time travel?

Evidently you also think that had our government evidence of alien visitors that they

would be open and above board with the public?

When Columbus arrived here, one of the first questions the Native American asked was

what of the star people? Columbus denied being aware of craft in the sky or visitors

from the stars.

[defendandprotect]

46. Hardly . . . more people have seen UFO's than have ever claimed to

have seen a "god/goddess."

Including live figures on board the ships ---

[LARED]

5. Humm

Extraterrestrials visiting Earth is possible but unlikely in my view. I believe they may exist, but the dimensions of space make visits very unlikely.

Visitors from other dimensions is quite the interesting concept. Quantum theory point to this possibility, but quantum theory also points that it is unlikely we could observe objects in other dimensions if they existed.

[wildbilln864]

6. agreed...

that's about what I think too. I also don't really see any reason for them to be interested in visiting us.

[AZCat]

8. I could see them being interested in us.

Why do humans have an interest in other animals? We have thousands of zoos, entire television channels devoted to the subject, and a horde of professionals who study them for a living. I think other life forms (if they exist and have the capability of visiting us) might share the same curiosity.


Besides, we might be tasty. You can't rule out some alien version of Julia Child. :)

[LARED]

10. Yummm

[wildbilln864]

16. oops. nevermind. nt

[defendandprotect]

49. Presume you are presuming they have only our capabilities .. . .???

See my post above --

[mrgerbik]

9. hmm

Bolo:
"But the challenges involved in intergalactic travel and the daunting task of locating another intelligent civilization out there really, really count against contact ever happening, at least for us."

Id like to add, at THIS time for us at least.


But yes after seeing the first deep field hubble image of that TINY speck (if viewed from Earth, they say its the size of a grain of sand held at arms length) of space and seeing some 1500 GALAXIES (ie - Billions of stars in each), I was absolutely awestruck and inspired. Noone could tell me after seeing that image that life doesn't exist outside our world. Who knows, maybe our universe is teeming with life? :D

Also, If anyone ever says that it is impossible for other forms of life to travel the vast distances to reach us here is making a very subjective and broad assumption and are most likely wrong. I personally don't believe that all life has to exist in this physical reality and abide by OUR laws of physics (which change over time anyways). IMO, we NEED tone down this pattern of thought where ideas and thought are set in stone... unmovable, static things outside ourselves that we have no control over.
I think we would go a long way to understand the universe better with a more fluid approach where we realize that mind, matter and what we term soul somehow all dynamically coexist and feed each other. oops sorry /tangent off

We are a perfect equation, drawn from imperfect numbers (or vice versa?)

[MrMickeysMom]

12. I think you must have THOUGHT about this!

In the land of assumptions and swashbucklers here, it seems yours is the best thought drawn on this subject thread.

I see some narrow assumptions weigh in here on the, "Are we alone?" subject. When faced with an alternative way "we" could be visited, I read a narrowed point of argument to hold up that we would know about it. Meanwhile, I don't see where anyone, myself included has a corner on what is truth, just what should be considered, in the attempt to present a counter argument. After all, presenting (anyone's) theory helps their own stability. But, a lot of people feel "they" end at their skins and that everything outside belongs to a world that is other than themselves, so it isn't real.

When you suspend your current belief system about "who we are" and what constitutes an individual, you come to a much higher level, and an expansion of understanding.

So, if we're to improve as human beings, perhaps we better be open to understanding our universe better, I say.

[mrgerbik]

19. absolutely

i agree.
i think times like these we dont need more of the same old.. we need people to (even partially) "unhinge" themselves from our own perceptions of reality. I think its healthy and it naturally tends to bring you, as you said, to something bigger. I dont mean to sound like I'm saying that you need to become a nutcase schizophrenic, but just to learn to walk down the middle and respect the flowers.

A good example might be an event such as, lets say, a sunset. You could write pages and pages describing in great, great detail what a sunset entails visually and maybe even emotionally - yet this is always a million miles from the actual experience one would encounter. Its as thou our logical mind of hard facts and figures can only make an estimate as to our direct experience - Exactly like a computer. In outward appearances, things seem 'true' (like computer graphics, the sine wave of a digital 12v inverter, a digitized mp3), but really are only a representation of the real. I think our language (which is logic) for the most part acts as a distiller where input flows through the myriad layers of social "programming" to ultimately come to a rational and explainable clarification of what was perceived. Some people see angels, some aliens.

Ive always been fascinated by thinking about what a deer might perceive when it sees headlights on a highway. Lets suppose this deer has the ability to communicate as we can to its friends. What do you suppose they would describe these strange vehicles they see as? They have no comprehension of lights, how they're made or how they work, let alone the mechanics of what they are attached to.. Why the lights are attached to this big colored thing.. Why the colored things are moving on this black paved substance that spans to far off distances.. Where the black pavement leads to etc etc... it seems like an endless exercise explaining all of these strange things and how (and why) they are related to each other (we didnt even get into how the the social/economic/political/spiritual themes tie into why the roads and cars exist in the first place). But the deer just keeps on doing its thing - its aware of something, just not the same thing as us.


"So, if we're to improve as human beings, perhaps we better be open to understanding our universe better, I say. "

in a much more elegant way, i guess that's what i just rambled on about. Must.. learn... to ... not... ramble... :o

[MrMickeysMom]

20. Naahhh....

Must.. learn... to ... not... ramble...

I say, "ramble on!".... :-)

Who knows, it might even crack open more light and thought regarding some "open and shut" cases relegated to this group!

[Ohio Joe]

11. I doubt it

I do believe there is life on other planets. Perhaps there are even other civs that could make the journey to visit earth but... If they did, I expect pretty much everyone would know it.

[seemslikeadream]

14. Has anyone seen the series UFO Hunters on the History Channel?

I think it is rather good



http://www.history.com/minisites/ufohunters

UFO HUNTERS follows the team of Bill Birnes, Dr. Ted Acworth and Pat Uskert, as they investigate UFO cases around the world. The team's access to UFO evidence is unparalleled—and their expertise allows them to quickly identify bogus claims of UFOs. Together, they use eyewitness accounts, scientific experimentation, documents recently released through the Freedom of Information Act and footage that has never been seen on television to piece together compelling—and sometimes chilling—evidence of UFO phenomena.

This season they will investigate some contemporary cases where video and audio evidence are in abundance, and dig into history for evidence of sightings going back centuries. Their investigations will take them across North America and Europe including Tinley Park, Illinois; Kokomo, Indiana; Aurora, Texas; a fresh look at Roswell, New Mexico; and others—spanning the years from 1897 to 2008.


videos
http://www.history.com/content/ufohunters/videos

[Grateful for Hope]

15. Speaking of UFO Hunters

There is a marathon going on right now.

[JuniperLea]

23. I think a lot of things go on that we can't yet explain...

After watching several PBS and BBC documentaries on string theory, multiple and parallel universes, I am more firmly rooted in my belief that we as human beings really don't know much about anything. Even when it comes to physics, which most of us feel are absolute laws... but have recently been shown to only be laws relative to our own environment, and are not hard facts in others. Many scientists are saying we are about to take a giant leap in our scientific knowledge, which will most likely lay waste to many of the things we thought were unmovable and absolute. We haven't had a giant leap in science in some time... we're overdue.

[Mist]

24. I guess I'm "agnostic" on this. I do wonder why most alien sitings have been

in low-population rural areas.

[defendandprotect]

50. Many weren't . . . Phoenix lights, for instance --

[Duende azul]

57. That's an easy one to answer

They have to go where the cows are.

[Theobald]

25. I believe that there is most likely extraterrestrial

life and there is a possibility that they are more intelligent than we are, but I seriously doubt ET's have ever come to earth.

[wildbilln864]

27. welcom e to the DUngeon Theobald. nt

:hi:

[greyl]

28. Who needs that?

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/02/photogalleries/fish-transparent-head-barreleye-picture/

[Realityhack]

30. That is Soooo cool. n/t

[HamdenRice]

31. What's that got to do with the price of beans in Mexico?

The fact that there are strange creatures on earth answers the question of whether there is extra-terrestrial life?

:shrug:

That's a non sequitur argument.

Also, I think you are not supposed to link directly to pics from other sites. Download them to a web picture hosting service like photobucket and link to that.

:hi:

[JuniperLea]

32. I think the point is, and I would have to agree...

That we still don't know all there is to know about our own home planet. It's pretty arrogant to say with certainty that we know all there is to know about UFO's, ET's, etc.

[greyl]

36. You got it.

I think it's extremely likely that there is life in the universe other than Earthly life.
As far as beings that have built vehicles and traveled here, I'm extremely skeptical. It's possible, but not likely given the reasons others have posted in this thread.
I used to totally believe in alien visitors and be really into that kind of thing, but now - not so much. In hindsight, I think my fascination was largely due to an escapist attitude.
Along those lines, I'd prefer to act on the hope that we can get sustainable life sorted out on Earth before planning on escaping some foregone doom on space vehicles that we build.
And, marine life is very underrated. ;)
Semper Fish!

[JuniperLea]

38. Oh, I don't know...

We tend to think of things from our own perspective, not taking into account the fact we don't really have much perspective of anything but our own little world. Scientists have been saying otherwise as well:

snip

There may be 100 billion Earth-like planets in the Milky Way, or one for every sun-type star in the galaxy, said Alan Boss, an astronomer with the Carnegie Institution and author of the new book "The Crowded Universe: The Search for Living Planets."

snip

Other scientists are taking another approach: an analysis that suggests there could be hundreds, even thousands, of intelligent civilizations in the Milky Way.

Researchers at the University of Edinburgh in Scotland constructed a computer model to create a synthetic galaxy with billions of stars and planets. They then studied how life evolved under various conditions in this virtual world, using a supercomputer to crunch the results.

Source: Space.com In a paper published recently in the International Journal of Astrobiology, the researchers concluded that based on what they saw, at least 361 intelligent civilizations have emerged in the Milky Way since its creation, and as many as 38,000 may have formed.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/TECH/space/02/25/galaxy.planets.kepler/index.html

Hot off the press!

[greyl]

43. "Oh, I don't know"

Isn't that usually an introduction to a statement of disagreement? ;)

[HamdenRice]

41. "I used to totally believe in alien visitors ...due to an escapist attitude."

"I think my fascination was largely due to an escapist attitude."

Who woulda thunk it, old buddy!

:hi:

[greyl]

35. What a dismal response.

"The fact that there are strange creatures on earth answers the question of whether there is extra-terrestrial life?"

No. Straw argument.

"That's a non sequitur argument."

No, it's not an argument at all. Try to find a text on rhetorical devices and bone up on them. I didn't expect everyone to get my point, but it does make a lot of sense that someone who thinks "entomology" is the study of word origins would be the only one to display a lack of understanding about simple subtext.

"Also, I think you are not supposed to link directly to pics from other sites. Download them to a web picture hosting service like photobucket and link to that."

You either haven't read or fail to understand the terms of use at the site whence the picture comes.

[HamdenRice]

37. So for once in your on-line life, walk us through your reasoning!

The OP is about whether there are aliens. You post a picture of a strange fish and say, "who needs that."

So WTF were you actually trying to get across with respect to aliens? Or were you just trying to hijack the thread with your own weird obsessions? Can you state affirmatively (rather than regurgitating your usual 'you don't get it' line) what the point of posting off topic was this time?

:rofl:

[Realityhack]

29. IMO the key here is visiting earth.

Answer: no I seriously doubt it.

[defendandprotect]

51. Why . . .?

[crankmob]

33. maybe we are aliens..

[JuniperLea]

39. Anything is posible...

Welcome to DU!

:hi:

[defendandprotect]

52. Obviously, we're hybrids . .. someone's creation --

and the Vatican has no problem with the notion of aliens in the

creation theory!

[LARED]

54. Obviously, we're hybrids????

How is that obvious?

[defendandprotect]

55. There are many signs of it --

have you ever explored that concept?

Intervention, perhaps, some 375,000 years ago --

Visitors to this planet now may be family, in a sense --- !!!*

Meanwhile, what I've said about the Vatican is true -- does that not

increase your interest?


PS: Used to think that perhaps a number of species were visiting our planet --

and was surprised that by the time of the astronauts they were referring to aliens

as "Heinz 87 varities" --- and that the figure out that now is above 300!!!

At least one species seems to be a billion years older than humans -- others

at least a million years more advanced!

[LARED]

56. If there are so many signs, perhaps you

can point out a few.

BTW, what the Vatican says is of little interest to me.

[Neo Atheist]

34. the sheer size of the universe

along with our infinitesimal size means there's an equally infinitesimal chance aliens from other worlds or multiverses (I prefer this term to dimensions) have traveled to our planet.

Is this going to be a topic on George Noory tonight again?

[defendandprotect]

53. I never get around to listening to those night time programs!!

We should have a bit of reporting at DU on them now and again.

But, evidently we may be on the outer edges and about to be rounded up and

brought into the fold. Evidently, one or two other planets like us. They'll

be rounded up as well according to Bob Dean.

[leftofthedial]

40. and they all pose as "skeptics" at DU too!

[wildbilln864]

42. rofl

:rofl:

[greyl]

44. But you can always tell them by their screen names. nt

[defendandprotect]

45. Me . . .

[Fire1]

58. Me, too.

[sarcasmo]

59. I would believe that before I believed there was a god.