SEC office destroyed:IPO probe in jeopardy

[seemslikeadream]

how very convienent, start all over indeed

[Ohio Joe]

1. I'm not sure what is interesting about this

I did some google news searches and there were lots of IPO investigations, before 9/11 and since. I can't read the article you posted (sorry, my eyes are not what they used to be) so I'm not sure what makes this one important. Who is it investigating and did you check to see if it was ever resolved?

[seemslikeadream]

2. Here's a bit, funny the article can't be found on line, still looking

the SEC and the justice Department for months have been trying to determine if firms such as Credit Swisse First Boston Goldman Sacs Groups Inc. and Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co essentially extracted kickbacks in return for allotments of sought-after IPO shares

"It will be many, many months before they can get back to square one on the cases they try to resume, "said Lawrence



Don't you have that little magnifying glass?

[Ohio Joe]

4. No, sorry I don't

I lost everything in a fire some months back and can only access the internet from my phone right now, kind of a wicked pain.

So... am I to understand that delaying the investigation was the motive for 9/11? If so, does that mean that they were behind 9/11 or did Bush and Cheney still do it but now to slow down these investigations?

[bottomtheweaver]

14. Call it an opportunity.

Kind of like, as long as you're painting the house, why not paint the garage too?

[Ohio Joe]

23. Opportunity for who?

Is the story now that these firms were in on 9/11?

[deconstruct911]

88. Well most of these firms were involved with pre 9 11 insider trading....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76ZVvMU4UO4

The united put options were linked to a cia-brokerage firm, it was never followed up however.

"Including an extraordinarily high number of bets against MORGAN STANLEY and Marsh & McLennan, two of the world trade center’s biggest tenants"

"This would be one of the most extraordinary coincidences in the history of mankind"

[SDuderstadt]

91. Do you have any proof of this whatsoever...

other than a stupid YouTube video?

Simple question: how do you know what someone claims in a YouTube video is true?

[deconstruct911]

92. ABC news....

yea um, go and do some research on 9/11 insider trading. Google " convar+9/11"

[SDuderstadt]

93. Don't give me this stupid "go do some research" bullshit...

It's YOUR claim and I'm asking YOU for proof of it. I think the 9/11 Commission's account of it makes far more sense than yours does. Why anyone would believe that United and American weren't having significant trouble before 9/11 is a total mystery.

Simple hint: don't draw your conclusion first, then go looking for evidence that only confirms it. You're rebunking the same bullshit that's already been roundly debunked.

Jesus, "truthers" are entertaining.

[deconstruct911]

94. Get over yourself and do the research

The commission report didn’t look at the Convar data, so if you rely on them I certainly can’t help you. And the FBI certainly isn’t a help either. What you should take away from that is this: 1)how can you deny this happened? 2) how can this be considered legitimate? After all Henschel a director of the company told AFP that “up to the last moment,” between the time that the first tower was hit until the second tower collapsed, there was an “unusual” increase in trading volume of “between 5 and 10 times the normal volume.”


As for the stock option trades, IT IS NOT JUST AIRLINES! (My emphases)
The commission didn’t mention the brokerage firms, which holds some glaring clues.
The commission claims this newsletter is solid proof for their case. Is this the first time in history such a newsletter was sent out? Probably not, and almost ALWAYS the trades are even.
Sources tell CBS News that the afternoon before the attack, alarm bells were sounding over unusual trading in the U.S. stock options market.

“The trades are called "puts" and they involved at least 450,000 shares of American. But what raised the red flag is more than 80 percent of the orders were "puts", far outnumbering "call" options, those betting the stock would rise.

Sources say they have never seen that kind of imbalance before, reports CBS News Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson. Normally the numbers are fairly even.”



"typical CT bullshit. No offense" This from a previous post of yours of course! Must I post all my links yet again? There is no burden on me to find proof the commission report is merely speculation rather than solid answers.

[SDuderstadt]

95. Yeah, dude...

it's YOUR fucking claim. If you can't back up your claims, don't whine when you're called on it.

[deconstruct911]

98. No, dude

but thank you however I cannot take credit for it. It was simply reported by many respected main media sources….
For those who want to see the documented hard-evidence facts look up post #77 for links/sources.

These are legitimate facts, connect the dots on big money and how it was made, no building physics or complicated theories.

[SDuderstadt]

99. "legitimate facts"...

so is the 9/11 Comission Report, dude. I can play the same game too.

So, ask me any question you want about the 9/11 Comission Report. My answer, of course, will be, "go do some rsearch" and "connect the dots".

Tu quo, dude? The hypocrisy of the "truth" movement is simply stunning.

[deconstruct911]

100. Ah very clever

but the commission report says they found not the slightest trace of insider trading. All one needs to do is find beyond a doubt that is a lie.

the commission report didn’t even acknowledge what Convar was. In fact if I’m correct it was about "finding out how the attacks happened" rather than an investigation into building collapse and insider trading. After all they didn’t even mention wtc 7. So since the report says nothing about Convar and data recovery, I guess you are going to keep mum about this now? That’s if you follow the report. Part of the "game" no?

[SDuderstadt]

101. Why would you expect the 9/11 Commission to address WTC 7??

Was the 9/11 Commission an engineering inquiry?

This just gets dumber and dumber.

[deconstruct911]

102. Read

my entire post, particularly what was in quotations before you get all carried away. They should however have detailed, none secret classified BS on criminal insider trading that could expose the masterminds!

It is only as dumb as you make it! The FBI and SEC achieved nothing! You can’t just go and rush more than 100 million through computers without leaving information behind. After all these were credit card transactions for crying out loud. It’s absurd, it’s documented! All I posted was that these firms were in on 9/11 weather or not that includes the IPO fraud. If you don’t agree with me that’s fine quit wasting your time. Its well reported and confirmed and there has been no logical explanation. For example:

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/12/20/wtc.harddrives.idg/

“Computer disk drives from WTC could yield clues”
(IDG) -- A new data-recovery technique could help trace suspicious financial transactions made shortly before the terrorist attacks in the U.S. on September 11.
“An unexplained surge in transactions was recorded prior to the attacks, leading to speculation that someone might have profited from previous knowledge of the terrorist plot by moving sums of money. But because the facilities of many financial companies processing the transactions were housed in New York's World Trade Center, destroyed in the blasts, it has until now been impossible to verify that suspicion. That's where Convar Systeme Deutschland GmbH comes in. The company is helping reconstruct data from hard disk drives found in the ruins of the twin towers.”
“Companies contracting with Convar pay between US$20,000 and $30,000 per drive for the work.”
“When Convar discovers encryption keys on a drive, indicating a financial record, it saves the information and hands it over to its U.S. clients, who are in turn cooperating with the FBI, he said.”
The company has completed processing 39 drives; another 42 have arrived, and a further 20 drives are expected in early January, Wagner said.”

What the dutch reported 6 MONTHS LATER!:

http://911blogger.com/node/18029
http://www.convar.de/multimedia.htm?po=3&language=1#WTC

One year after attack Convar sends out a press release:

http://press.convar.com/pdf/de/Presse_echo_17_12_2002.pdf

Richard Wagner, a data retrieval expert at the company, said illegal transfers of more than $100 million might have been made immediately before and during the disaster. "There is a suspicion that some people had advance knowledge of the approximate time of the plane crashes in order to move out amounts exceeding $100 million," Wagner said. "They thought that the records of their transactions could not be traced after the main frames were destroyed."

It turns out Convar did indeed recover this information. They handed it over to their un-named clients and the FBI. But did the FBI ever say who was behind the sharp rise? SEC chairman at the time Harvey Pitt said "we will find them, wherever hey are." But they never said! Now the SEC and FBI say nothing to see here folks move along. Newsletters, box cutters, Ryder vans, fertilizer, aluminum planes make MUCH more sense. These are distractions from the trillions made from this entire operation.
Don’t you find it fishy 2 aluminum planes took out the entire WTC complex which catered to banks and federal agencies? Does the SEC crack down on money laundering? If you think so consider the quarter century of opium cultivation in Afghanistan that says otherwise…. ( which the CIA and BCCI started)

THE Bush Administration, as part of its campaign against the funding of terrorism, has, with much publicity, initiated a series of measures to check the clandestine transfer of funds, and so on — but those in the know are inclined to be extremely skeptical about the eventual outcome of this campaign, as US and European banks are integral to global money laundering.
Thus, Senator Carl Levin has gone on record saying: "Estimates are that $500 billion to $1 trillion of international criminal proceeds are moved internationally and deposited into bank accounts annually. It is estimated that half of the money comes to the United States..." The other half is laundered through European banks.

http://www.blonnet.com/2002/02/11/stories/2002021100100900.htm

[SDuderstadt]

103. Keep digging, deconstruct...

you're almost there!

[deconstruct911]

104. Those who don't

see it now never will.

[SDuderstadt]

105. Yeah, yeah, yeah...

and those who want to see something that isn't even there will continue to do so.

Please let us know when you find that "9/11 was an inside job" smoking gun.

[deconstruct911]

106. I didnt let you know in the first place

because you can’t seem to comprehend!

They say seeing is believing, but some don’t believe what they see....

IF there was no story I'm sure the Commission would have been glad to expose it.
What are they going to Say? that someone or many people rushed 100's of millions worth of credit frauds through the buildings as they burned based on “newsletters” and "market pessimism".
ROFL it’s supposed to be the biggest investigation in American history not stand up comedy!

[SDuderstadt]

107. Dude...

do you honestly think if you had a "smoking gun", people would just ignore it? Instead, what you have is a bunch of speculation and supposition, masquerading as "truth".

If there was anything to your claims, do you honestly think journalists like Sy Hersh would not have jumped all over it? Do you honestly believe that, at least, the Democratic members of the Commission...Hamilton, Kerrey, Ben-Veniste, Roemer and Gorelick wouldn't pounce on hard evidence of financial wrong-doing? Do you honestly believe that no one other than the "truth movement" is interested in justice?

Your 9/11 pareidola is getting really boring. If you have some hard evidence, take it to a fucking U.S. Attorney and quit rationalizing why, nearly nine years later, you guys have exactly dick and keep falling flat on your faces, dude.

[deconstruct911]

108. yea

something along the lines of what you said. How many times do I need to let you know the FBI already has ALL the recovered data? It's like senator Carl Levin or congressman like Ron Paul who for years have indicated that US banks launder drug money.I think they happen to be in a position to know... And Hamilton and democrats. PLEASE! did you realy say " Do you honestly believe that, at least, the Democratic members of the Commission...Hamilton, Kerrey, Ben-Veniste, Roemer and Gorelick wouldn't pounce on hard evidence of financial wrong-doing?"

That's a good one. It was the Democrat powerhouse Clark Clifford (who created NSA, ironically a 9 11 commission asset to keep information from family members) who made it possible for BCCI to operate on US shores.

type "CONVAR" into DU. Sorry to say I'm not alone on this one....

[SDuderstadt]

109. "It was the Democrat powerhouse Clark Clifford (who created NSA, ironically a 9 11 commission asset"

Ummm, no he didn't, dude. You should do some basic fact-checking before you make stupid claims.

From Wikipedia:

History
The National Security Agency can be traced to the May 20, 1949, creation of the Armed Forces Security Agency (AFSA). This organization was originally established within the U.S. Department of Defense under the command of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. The AFSA was to direct the communications and electronic intelligence activities of the U.S. military intelligence units: the Army Security Agency, the Naval Security Group, and the Air Force Security Service. However, that agency had little power and lacked a centralized coordination mechanism. The creation of NSA resulted from a December 10, 1951, memo sent by CIA Director Walter Bedell Smith to James S. Lay, Executive Secretary of the National Security Council.<7> The memo observed that "control over, and coordination of, the collection and processing of Communications Intelligence had proved ineffective" and recommended a survey of communications intelligence activities. The proposal was approved on December 13, 1951, and the study authorized on December 28, 1951. The report was completed by June 13, 1952. Generally known as the "Brownell Committee Report," after committee chairman Herbert Brownell, it surveyed the history of U.S. communications intelligence activities and suggested the need for a much greater degree of coordination and direction at the national level. As the change in the security agency's name indicated, the role of NSA was extended beyond the armed forces.

The creation of NSA was authorized in a letter written by President Harry S. Truman in June 1952. The agency was formally established through a revision of National Security Council Intelligence Directive (NSCID) 9 on October 24, 1952,<7> and officially came into existence on November 4, 1952. President Truman's letter was itself classified and remained unknown to the public for more than a generation.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Security_Agency

I am also going to ask you politely to cease using the GOP slur (from Frank Luntz) of using "Democrat" as an adjective rather than "Democratic". Will you take the pledge to stop?

[deconstruct911]

122. wow do you look stupid

National Security Act not agency. DUH

[NDgal]

116. And yet you believe...

And yet you believe without question the story of the biggest liars of all, the Fed government. Who stalled and pushed aside the full investigation the way they always do, claiming they don't want to arm enemies - in the other words, in the interest of national security. Bush couldn't even articulate why they would not testify under oath, he just let his sentence die.

So I say the burdon of proof is just as much in your court as the other side. I don't know which story I believe yet, but I think the "unofficial" version presented here is every bit as credible as the official one.

[SDuderstadt]

117. You have no idea what I believe or why...

I believe it. Try to follow the context of the subthread, then take a Logic class. Pay particularly close attention to something called "argumentum ad ignorantium".

[SDuderstadt]

96. self-delete.....n/t

[SDuderstadt]

97. self-delete.....n/t

[hack89]

7. So they were only delayed?

ok - so what? Seems like a lot of effort to only delay a handful of cases.

[rollingrock]

3. The SEC records were housed in WTC Building 7

that the significance of it, duh. It's called a motive.

...the records of on-going investigations of Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, Enron, etc. were destroyed on 9/11 when building 7 collapsed. Companies that are now widely known to have defrauded investors en masse and were rewarded billions in government bailout money for their efforts. Their executives were probably celebrating the attacks that day. I bet Bernie Madoff was partying too, as the evidence being built of his Ponzi scheme were destroyed as well.

[Ohio Joe]

24. So, these firms were in on 9/11? - nt

[deconstruct911]

77. THE CASE FOR 9/11 INSIDER TRADING- and how it ties to the SEC/7 WTC

In the days following the terror attacks, suspicious and unusual stock trading activity indicated that people used inside information to make huge profits. The money made from the trades done with apparent inside information has been estimated at up to $15 billion worldwide. Andreas von Bulow, a former member of the German Parliament, once responsible for the oversight of the German secret services, estimated that profits by insider traders were $15 billion. CBS offered a far more conservative figure when it reported (Sept 26) that "at least seven countries are dissecting suspicious trades that may have netted more than $100 million in profits."

Jonathan Winer, an ABC News Consultant said "it's absolutely unprecedented to see cases of insider trading covering the entire world from Japan to the United States and North America to Europe."
Also reported by FTW, the CIA monitors real time stock trades with prosecutor’s management information system, (PROMIS).
In the days preceding the 9/1 1 target date there was a surge in short-selling activity in a variety of stocks around the globe, including disproportionate “put/call options”. The week prior to September 11, shares in airlines, insurance firms, tourism-related businesses and financial companies with offices in the World Trade Center suffered disproportionate drops in their prices. While the arms industry soared as well as oil and gold prices.
German central bank president Ernst Welteke later reports that a study by his bank indicates, “There are ever clearer signs that there were activities on international financial markets that must have been carried out with the necessary expert knowledge,” not only in shares of heavily affected industries such as airlines and insurance companies, but also in gold and oil.

"I saw put-call numbers higher than I've ever seen in 10 years of following the markets, particularly the options markets," John Kinnucan, a principal of Broadband Research, an independent telecommunications research firm, told the San Francisco Chronicle.”

Shortly after the 9/11 attacks the SEC circulated a list of stocks to securities firms around the world seeking information. A widely circulated article states that the stocks flagged by the SEC included those of the following corporations:

American Airlines, United Airlines, Continental Airlines, Northwest Airlines, Southwest Airlines, US Airways airlines, Martin, Boeing, Lockheed Martin Corp., AIG, American Express Corp, American International Group, AMR Corporation, AXA SA, Bank of America Corp, Bank of New York Corp, Bank One Corp, Cigna Group, CNA Financial, Carnival Corp, Chubb Group, John Hancock Financial Services, Hercules Inc., L-3 Communications Holdings, Inc., LTV Corporation, Marsh & McLennan Cos. Inc., MetLife, Progressive Corp., General Motors, Raytheon, W.R. Grace, Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd., Lone Star Technologies, American Express, the Citigroup Inc., Royal & Sun Alliance, Lehman BrothersHoldings, Inc., Vornado Reality Trust, Morgan Stanley, Dean Witter & Co., XL Capital Ltd., and Bear Stearns

An October 19 article in the San Francisco Chronicle reported that the SEC, after a period of silence, had undertaken the action of deputizing hundreds of private officials in its investigation:
The proposed system, which would go into effect immediately, effectively deputizes hundreds, if not thousands, of key players in the private sector.
...
In a two-page statement issued to "all securities-related entities" nationwide, the SEC asked companies to designate senior personnel who appreciate "the sensitive nature" of the case and can be relied upon to "exercise appropriate discretion" as "point" people linking government investigators and the industry.
******************************************************************************

FTW - October 9, 2001 – Although uniformly ignored by the mainstream U.S. media, there is abundant and clear evidence that a number of transactions in financial markets indicated specific (criminal) foreknowledge of the September 11 attacks on the World Trade Center and the Pentagon. In the case of at least one of these trades -- which has left a $2.5 million prize unclaimed -- the firm used to place the “put options” on United Airlines stock was, until 1998, managed by the man who is now in the number three Executive Director position at the Central Intelligence Agency known as A.B. “Buzzy” Krongard.

A September 19 story by the Israeli Herzliyya International Policy Institute for Counterterrorism, entitled “Black Tuesday: The World’s Largest Insider Trading Scam?” documented the following trades connected to the September 11 attacks:

- Between September 6 and 7, the Chicago Board Options Exchange saw purchases of 4,744 put options on United Airlines, but only 396 call options… Assuming that 4,000 of the options were bought by people with advance knowledge of the imminent attacks, these “insiders” would have profited by almost $5 million.
- On September 10, 4,516 put options on American Airlines were bought on the Chicago exchange, compared to only 748 calls. Again, there was no news at that point to justify this imbalance;… Again, assuming that 4,000 of these options trades represent “insiders,” they would represent a gain of about $4 million.
-
- No similar trading in other airlines occurred on the Chicago exchange in the days immediately preceding Black Tuesday.

- Morgan Stanley Dean Witter & Co., which occupied 22 floors of the World Trade Center, saw 2,157 of its October $45 put options bought in the three trading days before Black Tuesday; this compares to an average of 27 contracts per day before September 6. Morgan Stanley’s share price fell from $48.90 to $42.50 in the aftermath of the attacks. Assuming that 2,000 of these options contracts were bought based upon knowledge of the approaching attacks, their purchasers could have profited by at least $1.2 million. Merrill Lynch & Co., with headquarters near the Twin Towers, saw 12,215 October $45 put options bought in the four trading days before the attacks; the previous average volume in those shares had been 252 contracts per day . When trading resumed, Merrill’s shares fell from $46.88 to $41.50; assuming that 11,000 option contracts were bought by “insiders,” their profit would have been about $5.5 million.
- European regulators are examining trades in Germany’s Munich Re, Switzerland’s Swiss Re, and AXA of France, all major reinsurers with exposure to the Black Tuesday disaster.

CBS reported on September 19th:

Sources tell CBS News that the afternoon before the attack, alarm bells were sounding over unusual trading in the U.S. stock options market.

“The trades are called "puts" and they involved at least 450,000 shares of American. But what raised the red flag is more than 80 percent of the orders were "puts", far outnumbering "call" options, those betting the stock would rise.

Sources say they have never seen that kind of imbalance before, reports CBS News Correspondent Sharyl Attkisson. Normally the numbers are fairly even.”


ABC had reported …..
“The Treasury Department, the Securities and Exchange Commission and a Chicago exchange have launched a major investigation into some suspicious and highly sophisticated stock trading just prior to the Sept. 11 terror attacks.
The week before the attack, virtually unheard of numbers of "puts" — basically bets made by an investor that a stock's price will fall by a certain date — were sold for United Airlines and American Airlines, which operated the four hijacked planes; Morgan Stanley, the investment bank which occupied more than 20 floors in the now-destroyed twin towers; and a number of other companies that were adversely affected by the tragedy and whose stocks plunged as a result.
"This could very well be insider trading at the worst, most horrific, most evil use you've ever seen in your entire life," Dylan Ratigan of Bloomberg Business News said Thursday on ABCNEWS' Good Morning America.
"Millions of dollars, tens of millions of dollars on a bet that all told could be $600,000 turned into $10 million, $20 million," Ratigan said.”

SF Chronicle September 29, 2001:

Suspicious profits sit uncollected
Airline investors seem to be lying low
Investors have yet to collect more than $2.5 million in profits they made trading options in the stock of United Airlines before the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, according to a source familiar with the trades and market data.
The uncollected money raises suspicions that the investors -- whose identities and nationalities have not been made public -- had advance knowledge of the strikes.
"Usually, if someone has a windfall like that, you take the money and run," said the source, who spoke on condition of anonymity. "

“The trades were not replicated in the stocks or options of any of the airlines' competitors. “

“The source familiar with the United trades identified Deutsche Banc Alex. Brown, the American investment banking arm of German giant Deutsche Bank, as the investment bank used to purchase at least some of the options. Rohini Pragasam, a bank spokeswoman, declined comment. “
******************************************************************************
*As reported in other news stories, Deutsche Bank was also the hub of insider trading activity connected to Munich Re. just before the attacks.

*The New York Times reported that Mayo Shattuck III had resigned on September 12, 'effective immediately', from a 3-year $30 million contract as head of the Alex (A.B) Brown unit of Deutsche Bank.

******************************************************************************
“Treasury bonds enter purview of U.S. inquiry into attack gains”
“The Wall Street Journal reported on October 2 that the ongoing investigation by the SEC into suspicious stock trades had been joined by a Secret Service probe into an unusually high volume of five-year US Treasury note purchases prior to the attacks. The Treasury note transactions included a single $5 billion trade.
As the Journal explained: “Five-year Treasury notes are among the best investments in the event of a world crisis, especially one that hits the US. The notes are prized for their safety and their backing by the US government, and usually rally when investors flee riskier investments, such as stocks.” The value of these notes, the Journal pointed out, has risen sharply since the events of September 11.
The article went on to quote Michael Shamosh, a bond-market strategist for Tucker Anthony Inc., who said, “If they were going to do something like this they would do it in the five-year part of the market. It’s extremely liquid, and the tracks would be hard to spot.”

More evidence of clear insider trading...

Convar (Pirmasens, Germany) was mentioned as the German computer company, hired to recover the data from destroyed computers in the Twin Towers for telecommunications firms and financial institutions, and also to verify suspicious trades while the attacks unfolded. Sender of the damage data carriers; the US Department of Defense: Data recovery experts later looking at 32 hard drives salvaged from the 9/11 attacks discover a surge in credit card transactions from the World Trade Center in the hours before and during the attacks. Unusually large sums of money are rushed through computers even as the disaster unfolds.
Richard Wagner, a data retrieval expert at the company, said illegal transfers of more than $100 million might have been made immediately before and during the disaster. "There is a suspicion that some people had advance knowledge of the approximate time of the plane crashes in order to move out amounts exceeding $100 million," Wagner said. "They thought that the records of their transactions could not be traced after the main frames were destroyed." Convar does not disclose clients under security standards; however a spokesperson later confirms that the reports of insider trading are true.
Henschel told AFP that “up to the last moment,” between the time that the first tower was hit until the second tower collapsed, there was an “unusual” increase in trading volume of “between 5 and 10 times the normal volume.”
The inside information appears to be so precise that experts have concluded that it could have only come from those who masterminded the terror attacks.
“Henschel said the companies in the United States were working together with the FBI to piece together what happened Sept 11 and that he was confident the destination of the dubious transactions would one day be tracked down.”

*Richard Grove ex employee of Marsh and Silverstream alleges Silverstream software played a key role in the fraudulent credit transactions.
• Silverstream built trading applications for:
• • Merrill Lynch
• Deutsche Bank
• Bankers Trust
• Alex Brown
• Morgan Stanley
• AIG
• Some of the above companies moved into the WTC and simultaneously completed disaster recovery and business continuity implementations just prior to 9/11.


“SilverStream provided a specific type of connectivity that was used to link AIG and Marsh & McLennan- the first two commercial companies on the planet to employ this type of transaction- and in fact Marsh was presented with something called the ACORD Award in the summer of 2001 for being the first Commercial Corporation to do so and what you should take away from that is this: it means that no other companies were doing this type of transaction, so the question in your mind should be- what then were Marsh and AIG doing, and why did they need to leverage technologies that no other commercial entity on the face of the earth needed to conduct business?”
Richard Andrew Grove, SilverStream Software. Ex-client for Marsh & McLennan

Note: Floor numbers in red are part of American Airlines Flight 11's impact area of the North Tower:
101 Cantor Fitzgerald, Kidder, Peabody & Co., ESpeed

100 Marsh USA

99 Marsh USA

98 Marsh USA

97 Marsh USA

96 Marsh USA

95 Marsh USA

94 Marsh USA

93 Marsh USA, Fred Alger Management

92 CARR Futures, Crédit Agricole

91 American Bureau of Shipping, Meyers Pollok Robbins, New Japan Securities International, Shiga Bank

90 American TCC International Group, Chugoku Bank, Dun & Bradstreet (UB)


53 AIG Aviation Brokerage * Convar notes hard discs drives recovered from middle of the WTC.



• Kroll purchased by Marsh & McLennan in 2004.
• Kroll owned by AIG in 2001.
• AIG and Marsh & McLennan both run by Greenberg family.
• Kroll managed security in WTC from 93 bombing until 9/11.
• In June 2002 Kroll inc. acquired Ontrack, a subsidiary of Convar.
• Micheal G. Cherkasky, formerly with Kroll was placed as chairman of MMC in 2004 upon Jeffrey Greenberg’s resignation.
• Kroll is part of the intelligence community and most definitely had an officer in the room available for employee announcements, with direct orders to tell people to go back to their office in the South Tower after the North Tower was hit.
• Kroll were also involved with the American Airlines put options along side marsh (MMC) put options, at the very least they would have possessed such knowledge of AA11 allegedly flying into Marsh. It was confirmed that some of the information Convar was looking for pertained to American airlines companies’ stock option trades and insurance companies in the WTC.
• Early in 2002,Kroll Zolfo Cooper, Kroll’s US corporate advisory subsidiary, was given the monumental challenge of reconstructing Enron, the collapsed energy giant with $65bn of assets. Much of the Enron fraud cases were destroyed in the fires and collapse of WTC 7.
• On October 17, 2000, eleven months before 9/11, Blackstone Real Estate Advisors, of The Blackstone Group, L.P, purchased, from Teachers Insurance and Annuity Association, the participating mortgage secured by World Trade Center, Building 7. (Blackstone Group have also been involved with Kroll, owning big chunks of stock on occasion.)
• Blackstone Group were also the financial backers of Larry Silverstein to fund $ 101 million of the $115 million to purchase the lease for the entire WTC complex 6 weeks before the attack.
• “In 1998, AIG acquired a 7% non-voting interest in The Blackstone Group for $150 million and committed to invest $1.2 billion in future Blackstone-sponsored funds.”
• Maurice Greenberg sits on Blackstone’s Domestic Advisory Board.
***********************************************************************************
As reported by CNN on December 20, 2001: “Computer disk drives from WTC could yield clues”
(IDG) -- A new data-recovery technique could help trace suspicious financial transactions made shortly before the terrorist attacks in the U.S. on September 11.
“An unexplained surge in transactions was recorded prior to the attacks, leading to speculation that someone might have profited from previous knowledge of the terrorist plot by moving sums of money. But because the facilities of many financial companies processing the transactions were housed in New York's World Trade Center, destroyed in the blasts, it has until now been impossible to verify that suspicion. That's where Convar Systeme Deutschland GmbH comes in. The company is helping reconstruct data from hard disk drives found in the ruins of the twin towers.”
“Companies contracting with Convar pay between US$20,000 and $30,000 per drive for the work.”
“When Convar discovers encryption keys on a drive, indicating a financial record, it saves the information and hands it over to its U.S. clients, who are in turn cooperating with the FBI, he said.”
The company has completed processing 39 drives; another 42 have arrived, and a further 20 drives are expected in early January, Wagner said.”
Convar's German facility, in the town of Pirmasens near the NATO air base Ramstein, is one of the few civilian data recovery centers to be certified for military purposes as a "high security zone," the company said.
*************************************************************************************
Links:
1) http://archives.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/12/20/wtc.harddrives.idg/
2) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41004,00.html
3) http://press.convar.com/pdf/de/Presse_echo_17_12_2002.pdf
4) http://www.convar.de/multimedia.htm?po=3&language=1#WTC

5) http://www.insurancejournal.com/news/national/2000/12/11/11587.htm
6) http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/oct2001/bond-o05.shtml
7) http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/stockputs.html
8) http://www.hereinreality.com/insidertrading.html
9) http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/12_06_01_death_profits_pt1.html
10) http://www.ict.org.il/Articles/tabid/66/Articlsid/70/currentpage/24/Default.aspx

11) http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2001/09/19/eveningnews/main311834.shtml
12) http://www.nytimes.com/2001/09/15/business/chief-steps-down-at-alex-brown.html
13) http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id=92458&page=4
14) http://culhavoc.blogsome.com/2006/05/30/911-whistleblower-andrew-grove-comes-forward/

15) http://www.godlikeproductions.com/forum1/message609445/pg1

16) http://s3.amazonaws.com/911timeline/2001/wallstreetjournal100201.html

17) http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2001/trade.center/tenants1.html

18) http://www.nytimes.com/1994/09/01/business/a-midlife-crisis-at-kroll-associates.html

19) http://www.nytimes.com/1998/07/31/business/aig-will-put-1.35-billion-into-blackstone.html

20) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,34910,00.html

21) http://articles.sfgate.com/2001-09-18/news/17618308_1_ual-terrorist-plot-amr/2

22) http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/10/19/BU142745.DTL

23) http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/chronicle/archive/2001/09/29/MN186128.DTL
24) http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=deutsche_bank
25) http://www.historycommons.org/entity.jsp?entity=convar__gmbh_1

26) http://www.blonnet.com/2002/02/11/stories/2002021100100900.htm

27) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/mystery-of-terror-insider-dealers-631325.html

[seemslikeadream]

5. reports estimating them at 3,000 to 4,000.

They include the agency's major inquiry into the manner in which investment banks divvied up hot shares of initial public offerings during the high-tech boom.



http://nylj.com/nylawyer


SEC & EEOC:
Attack Delays Investigations


By Margaret Cronin Fisk
National Law Journal
September 17, 2001

Additional details emerged Friday about the effect of the collapse of 7 World Trade Center on investigations being conducted by the New York offices of the Securities and Exchange Commission and the Equal Employment Opportunity Commission, both of which were housed in the building.

The SEC has not quantified the number of active cases in which substantial files were destroyed. Reuters news service and the Los Angeles Times published reports estimating them at 3,000 to 4,000. They include the agency's major inquiry into the manner in which investment banks divvied up hot shares of initial public offerings during the high-tech boom.

The EEOC said documents from about 45 active cases were missing and could not be easily retrieved from any backup system. One of these cases was a sexual harassment charge filed on Sept. 10 against Morgan Stanley, one of the prime corporate victims of the World Trade Center disaster.

A statement from the commission said that "we are confident that we will not lose any significant investigation or case as a result of the loss of our building in New York. No one whom we have sued or whose conduct we have been investigating should doubt our resolve to continue our pursuit of justice in every such matters."

But the short-term problems will be immense, said Gregory Joseph of New York's Law Offices of Gregory Joseph.

"Court papers can largely be reconstituted, but work product has to be reconstructed," he said. "This will cause delays in court and will require significant reduplication of effort." Some data, he added, "won't be recreatable."

"Ongoing investigations at the New York SEC will be dramatically affected because so much of their work is paper-intensive," said Max Berger of New York's Bernstein Litowitz Berger & Grossmann. "This is a disaster for these cases."

"The SEC will have some difficulty, but the bounce-back will come relatively easily," predicts Harvey Goldschmid, Dwight professor of law at Columbia University and former general counsel of the SEC. "It will throw things off for a period of time, but most of what's important can be regained. They will have to reconstruct these documents. But most of this was backed up or in Washington. They've lost some transcripts but even they're available."

[rollingrock]

9. Holy crap

good find.

This would be front page news in any other country.

[deconstruct911]

84. demolition+ SEC fires

Fairly un-mentioned on this thread is the fact that tower 7 wasn’t just an obvious demolition but it was in fact the SEC that took on most of the "intense fires" able to destroy the building. Definitely leads to the suspicion that once certain files were destroyed there wouldn’t be much of a case.

[whatchamacallit]

6. The OCT will cavalierly toss this onto the enormous pile of miraculous "coincidences"

that have "no meaning or relevance to 911".

[SidDithers]

8. So, was the probe ever resolved?...

or are you just assuming it went away?

Sid

[rollingrock]

10. It's hard to complete a probe

when all your evidence was destroyed.

[SidDithers]

11. So, you know for a fact...

that the probe was never completed?

I'm looking for more than just supposition. The OP seemstobeimplying something, though I'm not sure what.

Sid

[rollingrock]

12. Did I said that it was or wasn't?

I said it would be pretty damn difficult for the SEC to complete a probe/investigation on someone when records of their case was destroyed, wouldn't it? Does that make sense? Do you not understand the purpose of keeping records?

In the future you might want to stay out of threads you don't understand, instead of wasting our time.

[SidDithers]

13. Hence the reason for my original fucking question...

"was the probe ever resolved?"

If you don't know one way or the other, why did you bother replying? Perhaps you should refrain from answering a question, unless you've actually got something concrete to contribute.

Sid

[William Seger]

15. You don't need to get so hostile about a little misunderstanding, rock

Obviously, Sid mistakenly thought there might be some point to the OP and your response. These things happen; let it go.

[rollingrock]

16. Sorry for being impatient

but the same question was asked already and it was clearly explained what the article is about in subsequent posts. Anyway, I hope the confusion is cleared up and everyone is enjoying their day off.

[William Seger]

17. Sid asked a question that has NOT been "clearly explained"

When you "answered" his question with more supposition, I believe Sid was just trying to clarify that you were talking through your hat.

[rollingrock]

18. The SEC records were destroyed on 9/11

that's not a matter of supposition, it's a fact.

[whatchamacallit]

19. Another disturbingly inconsequential fact to the OCT (n/t)

[rollingrock]

26. Nothing to see here

move along. Just another one of those fascinating coincidences.

[William Seger]

20. Lots of stuff was destroyed on 9/11

Above, you claimed that the destruction included records for specific cases, none of which you have documented. The article SLaD (partially) posted says that would slow down some cases because of the need to recover or reconstruct the records and redo a lot of case-work; you claim the probes had to be abandoned. You claim this destruction was some kind motive for the intentional destruction of WTC7, but you can't name a single probe that was not completed or a single court case that had to be abandoned. Either you can't find any, or you yourself don't think it's significant enough to bother looking. Your supposition is based on nothing more than the blithe assumption that all SEC records were in that one office -- not in the Washington headquarters or any of the other 10 regional offices -- and that none of those records could be recovered or reconstructed. Implicit in that claim is that the perps must have believed that, too. (Also, they must not have thought that burning the building all day would be good enough, so they blew it up.)

Yeah, it's amazing that so few people take this kind of "smoking gun" seriously, huh.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Bolo Boffin]

27. "Credit Suisse First Boston, Goldman Sachs Group Inc. and Morgan Stanley Dean Witter"

Very good. Step number one, you've got some names.

Now since then, almost eight years have elapsed. Can you track down these cases and see if they went anywhere since that time? What kinds of sums were involved in these kickbacks?

And then you can help us by answering another question: why would the SEC and Justice Department participate in the 9/11 attacks to destroy these cases?

[seemslikeadream]

28. why would the SEC and Justice Department participate in the 9/11 attacks

NOBODY SAID THEY DID




always remember the phrase


who benifits

[Bolo Boffin]

32. So can you offer an opinion on who did and who didn't?

A coherent thesis at all?

Or are you just singing verses to your favorite hymns?

[rollingrock]

29. Who said anything about the SEC and Justice Department

being involved in the 9/11 attacks?

Do you have have anything other than absurd straw man nonsense?

[seemslikeadream]

30. That is the most predictable response

absurd straw man nonsense

[rollingrock]

31. It gets annoying, doesn't it?

I mean come on, wtf man.

[Bolo Boffin]

33. So can you offer an opinion one way or the other?

Were they or were they not?

Could you offer a coherent hypothesis of what happened here? Can you put numbers to the problem?

[deconstruct911]

90. SEC

The SEC was ground zero for pre 9/11 insider trading. No one was ever charged though, and despite a massive list the SEC tried to keep quiet, the commission report ignores all but two airline trades concluding: It was not linked to al Qaeda (no shit) and is therefore not insider trading( oh sure), furthermore it was linked to a newsletter suggesting these trades.(must have been, it’s not like the CIA has any questionable connections to the banking system)

The Sec offices it's self didn't lose or record these transactions but the collapse of world trade center 1,2 and 4 did. And it certainly shows these alphabetical soup groups protecting everyone aren’t necessarily the real crime fighters we once thought. The SEC has the same connections to wall street as the cia when you break it down.

[William Seger]

35. OK, then I'll look it up for you

http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/05/19/morgan_stanley_bear_stearns_deutsche_bank_fined_in_ipo_probe/

Back to the ol' conspiracy drawing board, huh.

[SidDithers]

38. Thanks, William...nt

Edit:

Not sure if this settlement is part of the same probe. I think it might be, but it's hard to be certain, 'cause the OP didn't really have much in the way of detail

http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid={4848A416-6C92-43C1-BA48-52C4DC865635}&siteid=mktw&dist=nwtwk

and this: http://www.rmi.gsu.edu/rmi/faculty/klein/RMI_3500/Readings/Other/IPO_SuitSettlement.htm


Sid

[seemslikeadream]

40. and how did that all work out for us?

[William Seger]

43. Work out for whom?

The conspiracists who are still trying to find some plausible reason for why WTC7 would have been demolished? Not so well...

[seemslikeadream]

44. Tell me again WHO owned WTC7?

funny no one elses buildings fall down and go BOOM

[Bolo Boffin]

49. Silverstein owned the church? Silverstein owned Fiterman Hall?

Talk to us about Nathan Rothschild, SLAD, and how he got so rich off Napoleon coming back from exile.

[seemslikeadream]

50. please post pictures of what you speak of

[seemslikeadream]

52. Silverstein, what a lucky guy

[William Seger]

55. The same guy who collected $861 million in insurance on it

... from which he had to pay off the remaining $400 million mortgage and, because of a clause in the insurance policy, rebuild a building that cost $700 million. Oh, yeah: "Lucky Larry."

[seemslikeadream]

57. did not have to do any of that asbestos removal did he?

[seemslikeadream]

60. evidence suggests that the cost of its removal may have rivaled the value of the buildings themselv

[William Seger]

67. Why are you trying so hard to hijack your own thread?

(That's a rhetorical question. :rofl: )

But no, actual evidence shows no such thing -- not even close. It was estimated at about $200 million for the towers, which were worth over $3.2 billion:
http://www.newswithviews.com/Spingola/deanna39.htm

[seemslikeadream]

62. And you do know who OWNED the asbestos problem in this country and

around the world don't you?



DICK CHENEY

[HamdenRice]

70. Thanks for the link. It shows that SLAD was right

As you described it in response to my thread, it was a slap on the wrist. The amount and structure of these deals was pretty enormous. The article you cite shows that these cases were settled for around $5 million per firm.

But as my post pointed out, each ipo netted the allocated purchasers tens of millions and the kickbacks were equally enormous. I also note that the cases were settled as though individual rogue traders were asking for kickbacks, but before 9/11 the investigation was about how, structurally, the investment banks were undervaluing the stock in ipo's and allocating the undervalued stock to purchasers in exchange for kickbacks.

The OP basically is saying that any lawyers who worked for the SEC up to 9/11 and had all their litigation files destroyed would be hard pressed to recreate their cases. I don't know if you've ever seen the file for complex securities litigation (I have) and it would take a very long time to recreate. The files were undoubtedly based on "discovery" under the rules of evidence, and the SEC lawyers would have had to initiate discovery all over again, seeking hundreds of thousands of pages from the defendants and re-analyzing them. Of course, at the same time, new cases would be coming in, which makes going back and starting from scratch pretty unrealistic.

It looks like the collapse of WTC 7 caused the SEC to settle for pennies on the dollar.

[AZCat]

72. Would they have been significant fines otherwise?

I mean, this is the Bush Administration we're talking about.

[William Seger]

74. Oh bullshit, Hamden. The article shows that SLAD was not right, and neither were you

The IPO probes were NOT abandoned. Now you're trying to salvage that bullshit with more bullshit about what you THINK might have happened otherwise. SLAD could have checked her facts just as easily as I did, and just as easily as you could have before rushing to SLAD's defense with "IIRC, they were never followed up after 9/11."

[SidDithers]

75. Exactly...nt

Sid

[alcibiades_mystery]

79. They destroyed the WTC to avoid a hefty fine!

Yeesh.

[deconstruct911]

89. Can you find all the probes?

I only wish I could get my hands on the thousands of cases stockpiled in wtc 7 let alone just the highly publicized IPO case.

How about you go and show us that all these cases resulted in maximum fines.....

Cant find the hundreds/thousands of probes either?

"(Also, they must not have thought that burning the building all day would be good enough, so they blew it up.)"

Oh its so funny you mention it! Those demolition like fires burned the SEC up all day.

[alcibiades_mystery]

78. Do you know what SEC investigation records are?

The vast majority of SEC investigation records are copies of subpoenaed and other requested documents that exist independently in the files of the entity under investigation. I suppose there could also be interview notes and the like, but if you've ever been involved in an actual SEC investigation - or, indeed, if you even had the slightest clue what the SEC does - you'd know that "investigation records" for an SEC investigation are nothing but documents that already exist elsewhere, and that have been specifically requested or ordered released by the SEC. They are not some secret trove of absolutely original "evidence" like the victim's underwear from a murder scene with actual DNA on them or something.

Think of it this way: I put you under investigation, and order you to release all your cell phone records and emails from January-April 2009. You send those to me, and I organize them into a binder. Then I lose the binder in a fire. Is the evidence really "destroyed?" Of course not. I just have to request and organize it again, which is a massive headache and delay.

You clearly have very little idea of the kind of evidence the Securities and Exchange Commission actually uses to investigate cases.

By the way, no investigations were opened into securities fraud at Enron until after September 11.

[HamdenRice]

21. I remember this probe. It was a big deal. IIRC, it was never followed up after 9/11

I can't say for sure, and I'm a bit lazy this morning with google, but iirc, the destruction of wtc7 pretty much ended the probe.

It's perhaps worth understanding exactly what they were investigating, which was very different from the wrongdoing that has happened more recently. It was a kind of wrong doing where the victims were very diffuse and hard to identify (unlike say the Madoff scandal), so unless the government investigates, you're not likely to get much pressure to resolve it.

When a company issues stock to the public for the first time (an initial public offering, or ipo), the investment bank does most of the work for them and insures that there will be a market for the stock. The bank and lawyers and accountants for the bank and the company (the issuer) spend a lot of time writing documents that are given to the public that explain what the company is worth (the prospectus and registration statement). They send draft after draft of the prospectus to the SEC until the SEC is satisfied that it discloses enough. At that point, the prospectus and registration statement are said to have "gone effective."

(It is a felony to sell or even offer to sell stock without an effective registration statement. That's why during the commercials during the Sunday morning talk show, when financial companies in effect try to sell stock, the commercial always ends with the statement like, "this is not an offer to sell, which can only be done with a prospectus.")

Because there is not any stock already on the market, it is impossible to know exactly what the market price of the stock will be. So the investment bank uses its expertise to guestimate the price -- let's say 10 million shares at $20 per share, or $200 million.

It then tells the issuer that it will buy all of the shares that are being offered. That's fundamentally the service the investment bank offers -- it guarantees a market for all the shares by buying all of them and turning over the $200 million to the company without the company having to wait for them to be sold, or having to worry about the price. In return, the bank gets a commission, or a certain percentage of shares for free to sell on its own behalf.

The investment bank then turns the shares over to its broker/dealer division, which then sets about the task of selling all 10 million shares. These shares are bought by institutional investors and individual investors (often rich people and "big players" or the favorite clients of the more powerful brokers).

In fact, even before the registration statement is effective, the broker/dealers will have made arrangements with buyers, promising them a certain number of shares. These are called "allotments." If the company looks promising, the entire issuance will have been allotted before the effective date.

Also, the main executives of the company will have been issued millions and millions "restricted shares" (usually as penny stock and options in lieu of salary when the company was a startup) that are not sold on the day of the ipo, but whose price and value is determined by the ipo.

As the shares are sold, however, the price is reported on the stock market and the market immediately begins setting the price -- within minutes on the morning of the ipo.

During the 1990s, the public had a ravenous appetite for ipo's of technology companies. As a result, the guestimate by the bank of what the market price would be was almost always way lower than the price the stock would trade at even on the first day. The price might soar to $40 or $50. (The excuse for it being so low was that it was based on a rational analysis of the company's profits and growth potential, not on what the stock market will pay for it in its frenzy.)

So getting an allotment is extremely, extremely valuable. In the 90s, it was a way of doubling or tripling your money on the day of the ipo because you've locked in $20 per share and can dump them that day in the ipo frenzy for $40 or $50 per share.

Being an officer of the company also was extremely valuable because your millions of shares of penny stock issued in lieu of salary was suddenly worth tens of millions of dollars.

The scandal was that certain buyers were bribing broker/dealers to lock in allotments, and kicking back their profits to their brokers.

This looked like a victimless crime. In fact, it was the company that was being ripped off because money that should have gone to them (via a higher ipo share price) was being given to allotment holders and bribe taking broker/dealers. But the company officers usually didn't care because they were getting rich on their restricted shares. The public purchasers didn't care because they were buying the ipo shares at the price they wanted to pay for it and trying to sell them for more in the bull market. Really, it was a form of dilution, with the abstract concept of the company being the only victim.

The investigation was started by the SEC under the Clinton administration when the SEC was quite hard-assed. The records were destroyed on 9/11/01, but the SEC became completely toothless under Bush, so I'd be surprised if it ever got started up again.

[William Seger]

36. It was followed up

They got a nasty slap on the wrist. http://www.boston.com/business/articles/2004/05/19/morgan_stanley_bear_stearns_deutsche_bank_fined_in_ipo_probe/

[maddezmom]

22. found a partial timeline

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/dotcon/crying/timelines.html

September 2001 WTC Attacks Destroy SEC Office

In the aftermath of the Sept. 11 attacks, the SEC's enforcement office was destroyed by the collapse of 7 World Trade Center. The agency's investigators were forced to scramble to reconstruct many lost documents related to the IPO probe.

January 22, 2002 CSFB Agrees to $100 Million Settlement

Following an 18-month investigation into CSFB's IPO practices, the SEC announced that the investment firm had agreed to a settlement with the SEC and the NASD in which CSFB will pay a $100 million fine to resolve the investigation -- the fifth-largest regulatory settlement by a securities firm. By agreeing to the settlement, CSFB will avoid being charged with securities fraud, although regulators are still investigating past and current CSFB employees.

In its complaint, the SEC charged that between April 1999 and June 2000, CSFB had allocated IPO shares to over 100 customers -- mostly hedge funds -- who, in return, were forced to funnel between 33 percent and 65 percent of their profits back to CSFB by paying excessive brokerage commissions on other transactions. According to the SEC, the customers were informed "both implicitly and explicitly, that they were expected to pay back to CSFB a portion of profits earned on their IPO flipping in order to continue to receive allocations."

The SEC charged that "the profit-sharing activity was pervasive at CSFB" and in particular singled out the actions of CSFB management: "Senior executives who were in managerial and supervisory roles knew of the practices described in the complaint, encouraged many of the practices described in the complaint, directed CSFB employees to urge customers to maintain specified ratios of commissions to IPO profits, and in some instances, personally engaged in some of the practices described in the complaint."

As part of the settlement agreement, CSFB neither admitted nor denied guilt in the matter, and will avoid civil securities-fraud charges. It agreed to pay a $30 million civil penalty to be divided between the SEC and NASD, and a $70 million payment representing the illegal proceeds to be divided between NASD and the U.S. Treasury. The company also has agreed to change its methods of allocating IPO stock, including establishing an IPO Allocation Review Committee and hiring an independent consultant to review new policies and procedures after one year. As part of the judgment, CSFB must implement the recommendations of the independent consultant. CSFB also announced that it is taking disciplinary action against the employees involved in the matter.

The SEC is continuing its probe into whether securities firms -- including Goldman Sachs, Morgan Stanley, J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., and the Robertson Stephens unit of FleetBoston Financial Corp. -- manipulated IPOs by distributing shares to investors who made promises of aftermarket purchases. Upon completion of its investigation, the SEC is expected to either issue clarifications to existing rules or announce new rules on how IPO stocks should be allocated, in an attempt to level the playing field for individual investors.


Quattrone's conviction in IPO probe overturned
http://www.encyclopedia.com/doc/1P2-1616312.html

[SidDithers]

34. I think that slad is suggesting that 29 fomer Motel 6 employees...

were responsible for the attacks on the WTCs, in order to scuttle the nine-year-old insider trading investigation against them.

At least I think that's what she's suggesting, 'cause she never actually comes out and claims anything.

Sid

[William Seger]

39. You should know better

... than to either guess or ask why SLaD posts stuff here. I hope you're not on dial-up...

[seemslikeadream]

42. how's your retirement plan going SD?

[SidDithers]

45. Well, I didn't get in on the Motel 6 scam...

so, not as well as I would like. But what does that have to do with your OP?

Now that you're here, perhaps you can tell us what the point of your OP was. Were you suggesting that the firms under investigation were involved in 9/11 in order to scuttle the probes?

Sid

[seemslikeadream]

46. Were you suggesting that the firms under investigation were involved in 9/11 in order to scuttle the

NO

[SidDithers]

47. Then what the point of your OP?...nt

Sid

[seemslikeadream]

51. some people get it

too bad you can't or won't figure it out

[SidDithers]

58. Oh, and just for the record...

The case against the Motel 6 insiders went ahead and was completed in June 2002. Guess that investigation wasn't hampered by 9/11 after all.

THE COMMISSION SETTLES ITS CLAIMS AGAINST THE FINAL FOUR DEFENDANTS IN SEC v.
HUGH THRASHER, ET AL.

On June 11 and June 17, 2002, the United States District Court in
Manhattan entered final judgments against Hugh Thrasher, Jonathan S.
Hirsh, Lee Rosenblatt, and Mark R. Shawzin, the four remaining
defendants in SEC v. Hugh Thrasher, et al, an insider trading case
brought by the Commission against twenty-four defendants. According to
the Commission's amended complaint, filed on March 4, 1993, Thrasher,
while employed as an officer of Motel 6, L.P., communicated material,
nonpublic information to a close friend concerning a planned tender
offer for the company by Accor S.A. in August 1990. The other twenty-
three defendants named in the amended complaint, including Hirsh,
Rosenblatt, and Mark Shawzin, engaged in insider trading by purchasing
the securities of Motel 6 while in possession of that information

http://ftp.sec.gov/news/digest/07-23.txt

Sid

[seemslikeadream]

59. oh but tell us all about the records that were destroyed

[SidDithers]

61. Why don't you tell us about what was destroyed, slad...

you seem to think it's somehow important, and idicative of something nefarious. After all, it's your OP. You seem to think it's relevant.

It'd be nice if your reply was something other than an unrelated cut-and-paste.

Sid

[seemslikeadream]

63. Do you know the meaning of the word destroyed?

[SidDithers]

64. Fuck it. I give up...

another slad thread degenerates into stream-of-consciousness ramblings. Keep throwing shit on the wall, slad. Maybe, someday, something will stick.

Today, however, is not that day.

Sid

[seemslikeadream]

66. and you brought it on, deal with it

[SidDithers]

68. It was your OP...

and I asked a simple question about the information in the article that YOU posted.

"Were the probes resolved?"

And for answers, we've got Larry Silverstein,Russian prostitutes, Michael Miliken and George Bush's national guard records. Perhaps if you knew something about the investigatons that YOU referenced in YOUR OP, then you could have answered the question.

Sid

[seemslikeadream]

69. so sorry you don't like it

--[][][]--[][][]--Put This
--[][][]--[][][]--
--[][][]--[][][]--On Your
--[][][]--[][][]--
--[][][]--[][][]--Profile If
--[][][]--[][][]--
--[][][]--[][][]--You Believe
--[][][]--[][][]--
--[][][]--[][][]--9/11 Was
--[][][]--[][][]--
--[][][]--[][][]--An
--[][][]--[][][]--
--[][][]--[][][]--INSIDE JOB

[seemslikeadream]

65. destroyed kinda like georgie's national guard records

oh and those CIA tapes

[seemslikeadream]

48. one man owner of three buildings

no where on the planet now or in history has that EVER happened to, what a lucky guy

[SidDithers]

53. And was Silverstein part of the IPO probe?...

you post an article about setbacks in an IPO probe due to the destruction of records. But, as has been shown, the probes continued in spite of the loss of records, and resulted in millions, if not billions, in fines.

Somehow, though, you're linking that to Silverstein.

You'll forgive me when I say that the only ones here who can follow your choo-choo train of thought are your fanboi cheerleaders.

Sid

[seemslikeadream]

54. Bernard Madoff, the Mafia, and the Friends of Michael Milken

http://www.marketrap.com/article/view_article/9152/bernard-madoff-the-mafia-and-the-friends-of-michael-milken

Bernard Madoff, the Mafia, and the Friends of Michael Milken

By Mark Mitchell, Published: February 5th, 2009 3:25 AM EST


In 2005, Patrick Byrne, the CEO of Overstock.com (OSTK) and future Deep Capture investigative reporter, began a public crusade against illegal naked short selling (hedge funds and brokers creating phantom stock to manipulate stock prices down). He said, over and over, that the crime was destroying public companies and had the potential to trigger a systemic meltdown of our financial markets.

Soon after, I began to investigate a network of short sellers, journalists, and miscreants. I concluded that many of the people in this network were connected to two famous criminals – “junk bond king” Michael Milken and his associate, Ivan Boesky. I also began taking a close look at the Mafia’s involvement in naked short selling.

In my last installment (click here to read), I described some of the strange occurrences that attended this investigation. Where the story left off, I’d recently been threatened in a bookstore, and then ambushed by three thugs who told me to stay away from this story. My unwitting employer had been bribed by short sellers, Patrick had been told by a U.S. Senator that his life was in danger, and a Russian matryoshka doll had appeared on the desk of an offshore businessman.

Inside this matryoshka doll was a slip of paper marked with the letter “F”…

* * * * * * * *

Soon after receiving the matryoshka doll, the offshore businessman invited Patrick Byrne to a greasy spoon diner in Long Island. Over the previous year, the businessman had provided Patrick with some information about the naked short selling scam, and the hope was that he might have something more to say.

But that day at the diner, all he had was a message.

“I’ll make this quick,” the businessman said, with two other witnesses present. “I have a message for you from Russia. The message is, ‘We are about to kill you. We are about to kill you.’ Patrick, they are going to kill you. If you do not stop this crusade , they will kill you. Normally they’d have already hurt someone close to you as a warning, but you’re so weird, they don’t know how you’d react.”

In a later conversation with a colleague of Patrick’s the businessman said : “These things don’t happen to me anymore. I mean, I’ve been out of that world for a dozen years or more. These…there are defined signals here that lead me to believe that they have been disturbed. The only way they coulda been disturbed is if they own Rocker or if he is using them for leverage.”

Rocker. That’s David Rocker.

At the time, David Rocker was a “prominent” hedge fund manager specialized in short selling (betting that stock prices will fall). It was also the case that Rocker had spent the last couple decades insinuating to people on Wall Street that he was somehow tied to the Mob.

But Rocker was probably full of it. He didn’t have ties to the Mob. Perhaps he merely believed that his insinuations lent him a certain cachet.

* * * * * * * *

From 1973 to 1981, Rocker was a general partner in a short selling hedge fund managed by Michael Steinhardt, who is one of Wall Street’s most “prominent” investors, regularly hailed by The Wall Street Journal and CNBC as a genius and a font of wisdom.

Some years ago, Steinhardt belatedly acknowledged that he is the son of Sol “Red” Steinhardt, who was once a major player in the Genovese Mafia organization. Steinhardt, Sr. spent several years in Sing-Sing prison after a New York City prosecutor described him as the “biggest Mafia fence in America.”

Incidentally, experts concur that the Genovese Mafia family brought the Russian Mob to America.

* * * * * * * *

The largest investors in Steinhardt Jr.’s first hedge fund were associates of the Genovese Mafia (whose investments came in large sacks of cash), Marty Peretz (future founder, with Jim Cramer, of TheStreet.com ), Marc Rich (future fugitive charged with tax evasion and illegal trading with Iran and Libya), and Ivan Boesky (later imprisoned on multiple counts, most of them involving stock manipulation schemes orchestrated with “junk bond king” Michael Milken).

By 1991, Steinhardt owned another hedge fund — JGM Management – with a “prominent investor” named James Marquez. The star employee at JGM was “prominent investor” Samuel Israel III.

A few years later, Israel and Marquez founded the Bayou Group, one of the biggest hedge fund frauds in history. A significant part of the Bayou fraud involved Israel “feeding” his investors’ money into a Ponzi scheme run by Robert Booth Nichols, who has been targeted by authorities as a business associate of the Genovese Mafia family.

When Israel was sentenced to prison last year, he briefly disappeared. His car was found on a bridge. Scrawled in the dust on the hood was a note: “Suicide is Painless.”

Authorities arrested Israel’s girlfriend, whom they suspected of harboring a fugitive. Shortly after, Israel rode a red motor scooter to a Boston police station and turned himself in. Apparently, he was not dead. He had tried to fool us.

Meanwhile, Israel had filed a lawsuit against Nichols, alleging that Nichols had ripped him off. Apparently, Israel (who could not be reached for this article) would like us to believe that he is not tied to Nichols or the Genovese Mafia.

Nonetheless, Israel has a certain cachet. So do Steinhardt and James Marquez.

* * * * * * * *

In the 1990s, Steinhardt founded another hedge fund, Steinhardt Partners. The co-founder and head trader of Steinhardt Partners was a “prominent investor” named John Lattanzio.

The limited public information about Lattanzio concerns a Russian prostitute.

Apparently, Lattanzio proposed marriage to the prostitute and gave her a diamond ring. Alas, the couple separated, and Lattanzio asked for his ring back. After all, it had cost him $289,275.00.

But the prostitute seemed to believe that the ring was payment for services rendered. The dispute ended up in court, where the prostitute testified that Lattanzio had told her that he had ties to the Mafia.

Yes, said the prostitute, Lattanzio (Steinhardt Partners’ co-founder and head trader) had big-time Mafia connections, and he “would not hesitate to use them to harm me.”

From what I know of Russian strumpets, there is at least one area where they cannot be trusted – and that is where it concerns their love life. So perhaps Lattanzio had his heart broken. Perhaps, in the heat of passion, he said some crazy stuff about the Mafia to make himself seem dangerous. If that is the case, I send Mr. Lattanzio my condolences.

Indeed, I would enjoy meeting him. He has a certain cachet.

* * * * * * * *

Rocker left Steinhardt’s hedge fund in 1981 and went to work for an investment management firm called Century Capital Associates.

Information on this firm is limited, but it seems to have been largely owned in the 1980s by the Belzberg brothers — William, Sam and Hymie.

The Belzbergs were among Michael Milken’s closest cronies (family member Mark Belzberg was in fact implicated by the SEC in Milken’s stock manipulation schemes). They were at the inner core of the Milken machine – buying and selling the junk bonds of other Milken cronies. Often, the Belzbergs collaborated with Milken to blackmail, seize, or destroy public companies. .

In the late 1980s, the Belzbergs announced that they were going to take over Crazy Eddie, which was then a famous home electronics retail chain. The Belzbergs joined forces with Crazy Eddie’s founder, Eddie Antar, and the company’s chief financial officer, Sam Antar, in a supposed effort to take the company private.

This is a story for another time, but for now it suffices to say that Crazy Eddie was a massive fraud, the Belzbergs (and Milken) likely knew this already, and when the company was raided by the FBI a few months later, it emerged that Sam Antar had been feeding information to both the FBI and a lawyer, Howard Sirota, who was preparing to sue the company.

[seemslikeadream]

56. But, as has been shown

BULLSHIT

[deconstruct911]

76. AIG,MARSH,KROLL,(INSIDER TRADING)THE BLACKSTONE GROUP,LARRY SILVERSTEIN: BLOG THAT!

WJKO- who killed john o'neil to understand 9/11

If you didn’t catch it, all these guys are in bed with politicians.

First off, research this very site for the masterful job on Convar 9/11 hard disks- insider trading.
It can be established that based on those credit transactions the buildings were set up to be demolished before hand.

ABC had reported …..
“The Treasury Department, the Securities and Exchange Commission and a Chicago exchange have launched a major investigation into some suspicious and highly sophisticated stock trading just prior to the Sept. 11 terror attacks.

A widely circulated article states that the stocks flagged by the SEC included those of the following corporations:

American Airlines, United Airlines, Continental Airlines, Northwest Airlines, Southwest Airlines, US Airways airlines, Martin, Boeing, Lockheed Martin Corp., AIG, American Express Corp, American International Group, AMR Corporation, AXA SA, Bank of America Corp, Bank of New York Corp, Bank One Corp, Cigna Group, CNA Financial, Carnival Corp, Chubb Group, John Hancock Financial Services, Hercules Inc., L-3 Communications Holdings, Inc., LTV Corporation, Marsh & McLennan Cos. Inc., MetLife, Progressive Corp., General Motors, Raytheon, W.R. Grace, Royal Caribbean Cruises, Ltd., Lone Star Technologies, American Express, the Citigroup Inc., Royal & Sun Alliance, Lehman BrothersHoldings, Inc., Vornado Reality Trust, Morgan Stanley, Dean Witter & Co., XL Capital Ltd., and Bear Stearns

Convar (Pirmasens, Germany) was mentioned as the German computer company, hired to recover the data from destroyed computers in the Twin Towers for telecommunications firms and financial institutions, and also to verify suspicious trades while the attacks unfolded. Sender of the damage data carriers; the US Department of Defense: Data recovery experts later looking at 32 hard drives salvaged from the 9/11 attacks discover a surge in credit card transactions from the World Trade Center in the hours before and during the attacks. Unusually large sums of money are rushed through computers even as the disaster unfolds.
Richard Wagner, a data retrieval expert at the company, said illegal transfers of more than $100 million might have been made immediately before and during the disaster. "There is a suspicion that some people had advance knowledge of the approximate time of the plane crashes in order to move out amounts exceeding $100 million," Wagner said. "They thought that the records of their transactions could not be traced after the main frames were destroyed." Convar does not disclose clients under security standards; however a spokesperson later confirms that the reports of insider trading are true.
Henschel told AFP that “up to the last moment,” between the time that the first tower was hit until the second tower collapsed, there was an “unusual” increase in trading volume of “between 5 and 10 times the normal volume.”
The inside information appears to be so precise that experts have concluded that it could have only come from those who masterminded the terror attacks.
“Henschel said the companies in the United States were working together with the FBI to piece together what happened Sept 11 and that he was confident the destination of the dubious transactions would one day be tracked down.”

*Richard Grove ex employee of Marsh and Silverstream alleges Silverstream software played a key role in the fraudulent credit transactions.
• Silverstream built trading applications for:
• • Merrill Lynch
• Deutsche Bank
• Bankers Trust
• Alex Brown
• Morgan Stanley
• AIG
• Some of the above companies moved into the WTC and simultaneously completed disaster recovery and business continuity implementations just prior to 9/11.


So considering the amount of corporate fraud and financial fraud, it was either destroyed or delayed. That’s not to say they didn’t continue investigations and recover what was already retrieved in investigations but you must consider the benefits to these entities.

And you should remember the impact zone of American Airlines was MMC, the largest insurance broker on the planet. And they purchased Kroll from AIG, and both AIG and MMC were run by the Greenberg family at that time and Hank himself was a director of the CFR.

Just remember Kroll was a private cia and was owned by the financial institutions that profited off 9/11 in every way possible.
They also hired John O'neil and Kroll were more than aware of the order to keep people in the south tower.

So look no further than Kroll and AIG and how they are connected to the Blackstone group and how they are connected to Larry Silverstein. Anyone who thinks 19 rag-tags took those buildings down needs to get their head checked!

1) http://archives.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/12/20/wtc.harddrives.idg/
2) http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,41004,00.html
3) http://press.convar.com/pdf/de/Presse_echo_17_12_2002.pdf
4) http://www.convar.de/multimedia.htm?po=3&language=1#WTC

[deconstruct911]

80. good friends

Further more, it seems all these big political donors filled up that federal building with their fraud. One must wonder if wall street would have have participated in certain frauds if they didn't know it would conveniently collapse. Again not to mention the insider trading that they were hoping wouldn't even have records of the transactions.

And remember the connection between Larry and Blackstone? Who was it that had the mortgage for 7 wtc again? From other write ups I saw I believe Blackstone had their own share of fraud documented in that building. And if the CIA cant track 19 rag tags, I'm sure AIG & Blackstone's own private cia maybe had a bit more knowledge of 9/11. Maybe.....

[SDuderstadt]

81. This is just...

typical CT bullshit. No offense.

[deconstruct911]

82. typical conspiracy theorists vs. ignorance theorists

There is definitely a reason I post links.

So who made those credit transactions just prior to collapse?

If it weren’t for Convar data recovery the story wouldn’t be much more than that along the lines of the CNN write up.

Oh and I quote:

"But because the facilities of many financial companies processing the transactions were housed in New York's World Trade Center, destroyed in the blasts,it has until now been impossible to verify that suspicion. That's where Convar Systeme Deutschland GmbH comes in."

"IT HAS UNTIL NOW BEEN IMPOSSIBLE TO VERIFY THAT SUSPICION." Seems as if they got rather lucky the destruction of these towers boiled down to the SEC unable to track down these doomsday deals? But once the Convar recovery had begun SEC chairman, Harvey pitt said "we will find them, wherever they are"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-OClX54EFQ

So any proof these were legit trades?
Or are these typical theories the typical reality....

[Bolo Boffin]

37. See Segar's post #35 in reference to this OP.

It's a citation of an article where many of these cases were concluded with censures and fines for the companies.

[Name removed]

41. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[HamdenRice]

71. At least Will Seger has the intelligence to describe them as "slaps on the wrist"

The fines were outrageously low -- around $5 million per firm.

See posts 36 and 70.

Others, not so much.

[SidDithers]

73. A bit more described in this settlement...

but still abysmally low, considering the money involved. Certainly it indicates, tho, that the probes weren't abandoned after 9/11, as the article displayed in the OP considered.

http://www.thestreet.com/markets/matthewgoldstein/10205123.html

Goldman Sachs $40 million
Morgan Stanley $40 million
CSFB $100 million
JP Morgan $25 million

Sid

Edit: CSFB in this article http://www.marketwatch.com/News/Story/Story.aspx?guid={08381993-4684-4A25-9F46-54862A55FCFB}
not the one listed above

[deconstruct911]

87. 9 11 Aftermath Building 6 & 7, Federal Offices, Government Agencies 10 3 2001 ABC

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lVgACWoL7Ks

[SidDithers]

83. ROFL...

zombieslad rises again :rofl:



BRAAAIIINSSSSS! BRAAAIIINSSSSS!

:rofl:

Sid

[MrMickeysMom]

85. Don't look now, Sid...

... but, I'd say you enjoy making yourself go, "ha-ha"!

Who else around here raised the dead?

[SidDithers]

86. Certainly, I enjoy the humour, intentional and unintentional, in the dungeon...

but I didn't raise the dead. Credit another poster for that.

Sid

[deconstruct911]

110. Maybe connected

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=97281&mesg_id=97442

[zappaman]

111. then again

maybe not.
isn't "maybe" a wonderful word?

[SDuderstadt]

112. Question: Isn't "maybe" a wonderful word?

Answer: Maybe.

[deconstruct911]

113. I thought

only I could be captain obvious...

[SDuderstadt]

114. It's called a...

"play on words", dude. Let me know when you get that far in your formal education.

[deconstruct911]

115. Certainly connected (Citigroup & WorldCom)

http://www.thestreet.com/markets/matthewgoldstein/10036925.html

"But Citigroup says some information that the committee is seeking was destroyed in the Sept. 11 terror attack on the World Trade Center. Salomon had offices in 7 World Trade Center, one of the buildings that collapsed in the aftermath of the attack. The bank says that back-up tapes of corporate emails from September 1998 through December 2000 were stored at the building and destroyed in the attack."

[deconstruct911]

118. SEC offices on fire before twin towers collapse

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XICqbxLVuSY

[MrMickeysMom]

119. Max Keiser Report's had some talk about this earlier in the week

Of course, I listen with renewed interest. Much of the financial world records go *poof*

[deconstruct911]

121. I'm not sure if there were fires before or until the afternoon

"WTC Building 7 no fires until afternoon"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3VgVeWLg0k

[SidDithers]

120. I love this thread...

so many tombstones, so many memories.

Sid

[MrMickeysMom]

126. So do I, Sid.... So do I...

So many points that still stand today!

[deconstruct911]

123. Complaint VS Morgan Stanley

SUMMARY

1. For a three-and-a-half year period, from October 2001 through at least March
2005, respondent Morgan Stanley DW, Inc. (MSDW) routinely failed to provide e-mails to
arbitration claimants and regulators in response to discovery obligations and regulatory inquiries.
After the firm’s e-mail servers in New York City were destroyed on September 11, 2001, the
firm restored millions of e-mails by using back-up tapes. Many other e-mails, moved from
servers onto individual users’ computers, were not affected by the events of September 11.
Nevertheless, MSDW routinely failed to provide pre-September 11, 2001 e-mail in numerous
1customer arbitration proceedings and in response to regulatory inquiries, falsely claiming that its
pre-September 11, 2001 e-mail had been destroyed.

2. In addition to failing to produce e-mail in numerous arbitrations and regulatory
matters, and falsely stating that such e-mail had been destroyed, MSDW later destroyed many of
the same e-mails. Instead of preserving the e-mail back-up tapes that had been used to restore its
servers, MSDW put those tapes back into use, overwriting and permanently erasing their
contents. The firm also allowed the e-mails that had been restored to the firm’s servers to be
permanently deleted by users of the firm’s e-mail system over an extended period of time. As a
result, between September 2001 and March 2005, millions of pre-September 11, 2001 e-mails
that had been available to the firm were lost.

Read more: http://www.floridalawfirm.com/Morgan.Stanley.NASD.Complaint.pdf

Edit to add:

Note for electronic delivery of this complaint:
The issuance of a disciplinary complaint represents the initiation of a formal proceeding by NASD
Regulation in which findings as to the allegations in the complaint have not been made and does not
represent a decision as to any of the allegations contained in the complaint. Because this complaint is
unadjudicated, you may wish to contact the respondent before drawing any conclusions regarding the
allegations in the complaint

[defendandprotect]

124. K/R

[SDuderstadt]

125. Zombie SLAD!

Yay!