Unabomber's brother David says Ted took part in CIA mind-control experiments at Harvard

[bottomtheweaver]

This 10-minute Google Video is especially timely now that bombers are back in the news cycle:

THE UNABOMBER: HE WASN’T PARANOID, HE WAS CONSPIRED AGAINST - snowshoefilms

David Kaczynski reveals the MK-ULTRA-CIA mind control program that brother Theodore Kaczynski (dubbed the Unabomber by the FBI) was unwittingly a part of for three years at Harvard, and then at the University of Michigan and probably Stanford. In recalling some of the details of his brother's involvement in the covert behavior modification program, David Kaczynski says of his older brother, "In a sense, he wasn't paranoid; he was in a sense conspired against."

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=3880472500739477614&ei=M-MaSpjjOaGyqAP6hf2hDA&q=david+kaczynski+cia+brother&hl=en&client=opera

[CJCRANE]

1. That's why

the neocons now manipulate RW christians and RW muslims because they are the easiest people to brainwash and control
(their motivation is based on faith, emotion and following authority, not rational thinking).

[bottomtheweaver]

2. The GOP wouldn't have a party without mind control.

Advertising, PR, propaganda, religious and military indoctrination, torture -- it's all in the money-party playbook, so it's no wonder they went in for the Nazi stuff in a big way.

[KDLarsen]

3. Uh, this isn't anything new at all

It's fairly old news that Ted Kaczynski was conned into Murray's program, thinking that he would be debating philosophy, but instead he would find himself, his views and ideas absolutely ridiculed. The major weakness of the study was that, after having been subjected to such a personally degrading experience, he wasn't offered any sort of assistance in recovering from it.

[Democracyinkind]

4. I'll second that. Totally old info.

Although we'll never know what they did to him since the good fucked-up up Doctor never intended to share his docs...... his docs being part of the rare non-destroyed part of MK-Ultra.... gotta love empire

[JackRiddler]

5. no, it's not but...

it's amazingly fucked up.

[bottomtheweaver]

7. Gross simplification. MK-ULTRA was not a debating society.

And it wasn't a "study," it was a program using psychotropic drugs, hypnosis, psychological destruction and other means for the purpose of mind-controlling unwitting victims to commit the kinds of crimes Kaczynski committed, along with other "lone nuts" past and present. Wherever you got your information put whitewash on it.

[defendandprotect]

9. I was wondering what he was talking about . . . !!!

That needed straightening out --


:)

[KDLarsen]

11. Uh, I wasn't talking about a debating society

.. I was talking about what Ted Kaczynski thought he was entering into.

Murray himself described it like this:

First, you are told you have a month in which to write a brief exposition of your personal philosophy of life, an affirmation of the major guiding principles in accord with which you live or hope to live.

Second, when you return to the Annex with your finished composition, you are informed that in a day or two you and a talented young lawyer will be asked to debate the respective merits of your two philosophies.

http://www.theatlantic.com/issues/2000/06/chase3.htm

[bottomtheweaver]

12. Yes but Murray was a lying sack of shit.

Very good article, but as with most published material on these subjects, the conclusions are only hinted at, never spelled out. In this case, Murray, who as the article notes was OSS-CIA and couldn't give a straight answer on what the hell he was doing any of this for, was clearly conducting a covert operation whose purpose was "experimental" only to the degree that he was looking for weaknesses in subjects selected for their vulnerabilities. Exactly how he exploited those vulnerabilities and programmed Kaczynski to commit his crimes is of course unavailable along with the rest of the record on Kaczynski's participation in this deception.

Other sources are more forthright in describing how the process actually works. Victims are selected for schizophrenia and then implanted with personalities that are later activated by handlers to commit their crimes. That's how it worked with "lone nut" shooters like Sirhan Sirhan and the V-Tech and Columbine kids, who were assisted by agents on the scene who actually carried out most or all of the murders.

[mrgerbik]

6. dontcha know this is all nonsense? dontcha??

this stuff never, ever, ever, ever, happens. period.


Now that THATS out of the way, I'm going to go watch CSI...

[defendandprotect]

8. CIA thought we need terrorists . . . poof . . . Kacyzynski . . .

This is all part of presenting a view of a violent America --
to make us all frightened of one another --

The Drug War has been part of that since the early 1970's . . .
crazed druggies!

Snipers????

"Helter Skelter" . . . ???

[szatmar666]

34. it definitely looks like a program to manufacture terrorists

as an immigrant from a very sinister communist country, this story places the US government in the same category the communists and the nazis were: a tool in the hands of elites to wage constant warfare against the population. The reason in communist countries was simply because they could. There is a perversion of human psyche when individuals are given too much power: they become really mean spirited with subjugated classes.

[defendandprotect]

10. I hadn't heard this before -- thank you . . . very interesting . . in a sad, sad way.

I think there has been an effort to create an insane world --
it works for those in control --

Mae Brussel had an interesting view on Charles Manson - she thought
unlikely that he was a hippie and had unusually large amounts of money.
The Drug War certainly has been used to create notions of "crazed druggies."
On and on --
Now we're going to have guns in our national parks --
continued moves to arm citizens and concealed weapons!

As far as I can see, we created the Cold War --
and too much info is being kept secret enabling those who profit from this
secrecy to remain in control.

[bottomtheweaver]

13. Yes the "national security establishment" profits richly from fake terra

and they've found lots of ways to serve it up. School shootings, serial murders, psychokillers, lone nut assassins, bombers, airplane crashes, freak accidents of every stripe, suicides, you name it, they do it. The profits roll in by way of expanded police and SWAT equipment, increased gun sales, which raise crime rates, requires more police, prisons, weapons, and equipment. There are also financial and/or political motives behind the choices of targets and victims, but somehow the media never seems to connect even the most obvious dots.

[SDuderstadt]

14. You have ZERO evidence of any school shooting...

being "fake terra". This is just more of your bullshit.

[bottomtheweaver]

15. Now there's a comical statement.

There's plenty of evidence, but since you clearly haven't made even a half-ass attempt to verify any of it, what would possess you to make such a totally uniformed pronouncement? Don't you have any shame at all?

:shrug:

Anyway start here: http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=242668&mesg_id=244499

[SDuderstadt]

16. I DID make a half-assed attempt...

I looked at your so-called evidence and noticed how half-assed it is. You can't be serious about this shit.

[bottomtheweaver]

17. Oh? And exactly which points are you disputing, on what grounds?

This should be good.

:popcorn:

[SDuderstadt]

18. First of all, how do you know that any of his "facts" are true?

In Logic, what you're doing is "begging the question".

[bottomtheweaver]

19. There's no "begging the question."

You announced that there is "zero" evidence to support my statement, and I provided some, showing that you are mistaken. The verity of the evidence isn't even an issue. However, if you want to dispute any of it, this is your golden opportunity.

[SDuderstadt]

20. Did you fact-check it back to primary sources?

Of course you didn't.

[bottomtheweaver]

21. What information in the film are you disputing?

And at what point does it occur? (hour and minute please) Thanks.

[SDuderstadt]

22. Now you're trying to shift the burden of proof...

I don't have to prove the video wrong. YOU have to prove the video right. Did you fact-check ANY of the film from the primary sources? By the way, I noticed that one of the "viewers" who "commented" on how great the film was is none other than Domenick Dimaggio, who was recently banned from DU and whose idea of "evidence" is as flawed as yours.

Again, can you prove your bullshit or not? Just because you saw it in a book or a video does not make it true. In Logic that's called "false certainty". I have a bigger question for you. Do you EVER bother to fact-check anything or do you just uncritically buy what CT websites tell you?

[bottomtheweaver]

23. Notes to "The Columbine Cause" -- complete documentation

of roughly 300 statements made in the film, with links:

Notes to "The Columbine Cause"

http://www.xmail.net/evanlong/tcc/Notes_to_The_Columbine_Cause.html

[SDuderstadt]

24. Now you do a data dump...

Let me ask you something. If something is extensively footnoted, does that make it true? If you say yes, does that mean that Ann Coulter's heavily footnoted books are true? Does your data dump establish that Columbine was some sort of psy-op or false flag operation?

In ANY large-scale, catastrophic event there are going to be unanswered questions, anomalies and conflicting accounts. The problem with conspiracy theorists is that they invariably insist that any such unanswered question, anomaly or conflicting account HAS to go in the direction of proving the conspiracy. If you have conclusive evidence of your claims, please provide it to the closest U.S. Attorney and cc A.G. Eric Holder.

[bottomtheweaver]

25. Hilarious. First I have "zero evidence," now I have too much.

Maybe you should just stick to watching the telly? :shrug:

[SDuderstadt]

26. Do you know the difference between "evidence" and "proof"?

Are you claiming to have read all the witness statements? More importantly, do you know how to reconcile conflicting accounts to the physical evidence? If 200 people say that the killers were wearing X and 3 say they were wearing Y, do you think it's more likely that the 3 got it right and 200 got it wrong? Do you have ANY evidence that the Columbine shootings were either a psy-op or a false flag operation? Who were the perps? How did they pull it off? Why did the Clinton administration allow a "cover-up"?

Is there ANY conspiracy theory so goofy that even YOU won't embrace it?

[bottomtheweaver]

27. Yes. I just supplied "proof" that your claim in post #14 is wrong.

The "evidence" is in post #15.

Anything else? :hi:

[SDuderstadt]

28. no, you just supplied ''proof'' that there are...

unanswered questions, anomalies and conflicting accounts in the columbine shootings. you are far from proving it was ''fake terra''. and, of course, the two guys who could tell us the most - klebold and harris - can't...because they're dead. neither could oswald tell us about the jfk assassination nor the hijackers tell us about 9/11 because, like klebold and harris, they're dead too.

and that is precisely the fertile ground that allows ct-types to cultivate their bullshit. you don't have any concrete evidence that columbine was some sort of ''fake terra'' but that doesn't stop you from letting your imagination run wild. you'll take some uncritical thinkers with you on your wild ride, but that's about it. let the rest of us know when you've located that ''smoking gun''. we'll be all ears.

[bottomtheweaver]

29. Look, you made a false statement.

You said I have "zero evidence" that the school shootings are "fake terra," when in fact, there's plenty of readily available, well illustrated, meticulously documented evidence that the official Columbine report is a pile of shit.

Now, if you want to dispute individual claims in Even Long's film, fine. I don't agree with every claim in it either. But to deny there's evidence that the official story is fake is just flat-out wrong.

[SDuderstadt]

30. finding anomalies, conflicting accounts and pointing to...

unanswered questions does not prove the ''official story'' is ''flat-out wrong'' nor does it prove that columbine was ''fake terra''. if your claim is true, why are countless students and their families rallying around your cause?

it's one thing to claim that some students might not have been identified as having taken part. but to claim it was ''fake terrra' jumps the shark.

[bottomtheweaver]

32. Fine. The evidence is there. Your claim to the contrary was wrong.

This is not a court of lsaw, so whether the evidence constitutes "proof" of anything is an entirely academic question.

[bottomtheweaver]

31. Apparently MK-ULTRA was a Nazi program continued in the US thanks to Operation Paperclip:

Operation Paperclip was a CIA recruitment system approved in 1946 that brought 1,600 top Nazi scientists into the CIA:

"Programmes carried out by Nazi scientists included the controversial MK Ultra mind control programme, which sought to influence the very thought processes of its subjects. It fitted perfectly with Hitler's concept of a global war of the mind, in which people could be brainwashed into following an ideology, regardless of their own beliefs. Some of the men brought to the US to carry out projects like MK Ultra were convicted war criminals, who had experience of the foul human experiments carried out inside Dachau.

"Kurt Blome, who stood trial before the Nuremberg tribunal, would surely have been executed by the court had the US not saved him to assist with the development of their own biological and chemical warfare programmes. He admitted experimenting with plague vaccines on concentration camp inmates, but still went on to work on top secret US projects before finally being arrested, tried and convicted for war crimes in France. MK Ultra was by no means the only controversial scheme devised by the brilliant, but brutal Nazi scientists.

"An offshoot of MK Ultra, Operation Midnight Climax, saw Paperclip scientists experimenting on punters who had been lured to CIA safehouses by prostitutes working for the US government. The unsuspecting clients were given covert druggings to help analysts explore the effects of LSD on the human mind.

"Experiments like these, displaying the callousness and lack of humanity that characterised the Nazi scientific research, have led conspiracy theorists to speculate that other covert projects may have gone much further in the scope of their cruelty.
For many theorists Paperclip represents the gateway, the starting point for fascist domination of the upper echelons of the US establishment and the military-industrial complex."

From: "Operation Paperclip - A Fourth Reich?"
By Ben Goldby on Mar 17, 09
Sunday Mercury
http://blogs.sundaymercury.net/thegrassyknoll/2009/03/operation-paperclip---a-fourth.html

[bottomtheweaver]

33. Related topic: very good 10 minute video on Operation Paperclip

posted in the video forum:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=385&topic_id=318248&mesg_id=318248

Astonishing and very disturbing.