Jesse Ventura on Tru TV. right now investigating 9/11

[maxpower]

Giddy up.



Peace,
Max

[Subdivisions]

1. Thermite in the paint...hmmm.... n/t

[maxpower]

2. Nothing to see here

Move along. I am glad he is talking about this.


Peace,
Max

[Subdivisions]

3. First responder saw black box. n/t

[maxpower]

4. A couple of them

[jberryhill]

10. Make That "Thief", Not First Responder....

Phony Bellone is STILL claiming to be a firefighter, eh?

http://www.nydailynews.com/archives/news/2005/09/28/2005-09-28_9-11__hero__swiped_our_gear_.html

FIRE MARSHALS ARRESTED a self-proclaimed "honorary firefighter" for allegedly touring the country with pilfered FDNY gear to promote a 9/11 book, officials said yesterday.

<...>

He was charged yesterday with grand larceny, criminal impersonation and possession of stolen property.


...some "hero" you got there.

[Name removed]

11. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lucian]

36. Maybe the government is out to discredit him...

for talking about the black boxes.

Jus' sayin'.

[procopia]

46. Charges were dropped nt

[Subdivisions]

5. What happened to the black boxes? Where are they? n/t

[maxpower]

6. Good question

Hopefully the truth will eventually come out.

[KDLarsen]

12. Most likely destroyed by the forces acting upon them

This is one example of what the current FDRs can stand:

Meets the following requirements:
ARINC 747 - TSO C124 - EUROCAE ED 55
- Resistance to shocks: up to 3400 g, for 6 milli sec.
- Resistance to penetration: an impact of 225 kg falling from height of 3 meters
- Resistance to static crush force: 5000 pounds, for 5 min, on all axis
- Fire test: 1100°C flames for 30 min, on entire surface
- Fire test: 260°C - 10 hours
- Resistance to immersion in aircraft fluids: 48 hours
- Resistance to immersion in seawater: 30 days at depth of 6000 m

http://www.sagemavionics.com/ProdFiles/Brochures/FlightDataManagement/SSFDR.pdf

Points 2 and 3 are most likely to blame, possibly point 5 as well depending on where it ended up in the pile.

[Subdivisions]

13. All four of them, eh? Yeah, right! n/t

[Bolo Boffin]

14. Why wouldn't they have been destroyed?

The forces at play in the destruction of the towers, regardless of your preferred mechanism, was enough to destroy floor after floor of contents, no matter what they were. The people working on the Pile expressed their amazement again and again about the utter destruction they found there. Why wouldn't all four (the CVRs and FDRs from both planes) be destroyed along with the rest?

[Bryan Sacks]

23. How about because they were reported found?

http://www.summeroftruth.org/groundzero.html

[Bolo Boffin]

56. Your source won't give you the time of day, Bryan. n/t

[Bryan Sacks]

80. You think Lindorff is lying. You think DeMasi lied. We know where you stand. n/t

[Bryan Sacks]

24. And how about because that report was corroborated a year later by a gov't source?

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff12202005.html

A source at the National Transportation Safety Board, the agency that has the task of deciphering the date from the black boxes retrieved from crash sites-including those that are being handled as crimes and fall under the jurisdiction of the FBI-says the boxes were in fact recovered and were analyzed by the NTSB.

"Off the record, we had the boxes," the source says. "You'd have to get the official word from the FBI as to where they are, but we worked on them here."

[KDLarsen]

25. An unnamed government source

I'm sorry, I don't buy it.

Nor do I buy the 'fact' that they managed to stumble across the 3 FDRs by chance. First of all since it would have looked a lot worse than this:


which was the AA77 FDR.

ETA: Perhaps I should provide some context. This is how big the rubble pile was, feel free to shave off a bit to account for the time before the feds apparently realised that they might want to pick up the FDRs at some point:


Are you telling me they just waltzed in there and in less than a day was able to recover 3 FDRs?

Also, why on earth search through the rubble pile, when the debris was already being searched by hand at Fresh Kills?

[Ghost in the Machine]

51. Because they went all the way through the building or blew out in the explosions?

Isn't it possible that they weren't in the towers when they collapsed? Wasn't there an engine, or wheel or something, found a block or two away from the towers?

:shrug:

Peace,

Ghost

[Bryan Sacks]

53. Of course. There's nothing that says they had to be under that debris pile n/t

[KDLarsen]

54. Simple physics

The engine and wheel assemblies are both fairly compact and heavy, so when the planes hit the tower, the kinetic energy stored in them propelled them further forward (best example to explain this, would be the Mythbusters episode on 'Killer tissue box'), and in one case lead to an engine passing through the tower and landing in the streets below.

The FDR/CVR being stored in the relatively light tail of the airplane, most likely meant that they stayed inside the tower.

[Ghost in the Machine]

79. Is it possible that the "relatively light tail of the airplane" could have disintegrated

on impact and been blown out by the fireball explosion? I can see how it could have.

Peace,

Ghost

[wildbilln864]

81. They are never destroyed!

Never before at least. And at least one should have wound up near the top of the debris pile because the plane hit high in the building. And even if they were destroyed. Shredded or crushed. There'd be identifiable pieces to show they were indeed destroyed.

[Bolo Boffin]

82. Not even when the sun goes red and swallows the earth? n/t

[wildbilln864]

85. so you have nothing...

but silly assed hypotheticals! Noted.

[Bolo Boffin]

86. Well, nothing much.

[jberryhill]

90. One Thing Ventura Kept Repeating

Was along the lines of "They found human remains the size of a fingernail, but they couldn't find the black boxes."

He does not seem to understand that, yes, they found mainly fragmentary human remains, which are readily distinguishable from bits and pieces of "things made out of metal" which was loaded onto the conveyors at Fresh Kills. But there is a REASON why they found human remains the size of a fingernail. He also doesn't get that they by no means recovered all remains of all persons in the buildings.

[defendandprotect]

95. What Ventura means is that human remains are frail - black boxes are indestructible...!!!

And reportedly found ---

In fact, FOIA release on the flight that allegedly hit the Pentagon . . . ahem . .

reports the flight was flying at an altitude too high to have hit the lamposts -- !!!

[jberryhill]

96. Hang in there...

A lot of prescription medications can be refilled every month.

It won't be long now.

[defendandprotect]

93. A FOIA request produced a report that the flight recorder for flight that hit the

Pentagon . . . allegedly . . . was flying at an altitutde too high to have hit the

lamposts --

Finally, only cover up and lies can be used to shut down all the evidence against

9/11 being anything but a false flag operation --

[HannibalCards]

94. Help a brother out

How could a plane fly to low to hit the light poles?

[Ter]

7. Jesse is amazing

I so wish he were still in politics saying what he says now.

[Twist_U_Up]

8. And to think,Jesse only scratches the surface....

He could make a whole season series of the questions and cover ups.

inside job

[ailsagirl]

21. He hasn't even gotten around to discussing the Pentagon "attack"

He's got plenty of grist for the mill...

[Twist_U_Up]

9. Link to show....

http://eclipptv.com/viewVideo.php?video_id=8834&title=Conspiracy_Theory__911_Episode_2_part1_6&vpkey=9b9ddf3879

enjoy

[William Seger]

15. Which makes it official...

9/1 Truth Movement: For Entertainment Purposes Only

[maxpower]

16. 9/1 Truth Movement: For Entertainment Purposes Only

However the 9/11 Truth Movement is a valid group that needs to get to the bottom of the lies. Go back carrying water for the official story.

[Bolo Boffin]

17. The 9/11 Truth Movement should stop making factual inaccuracies if they wish to get to the bottom

of lies.

[maxpower]

18. Unlike the official story

That contains no inaccuracies. :sarcasm:

[ailsagirl]

19. LOL!! "Official" story a pack of lies & omissions, just like the Warren report

I have to say, my jaw dropped when I heard him talk
about our government's possibly being involved in
9/11. Up until now, the most controversial thing
I've heard on TV about 9/11 is that our gov't was
remiss in not stopping the terrorist attacks.

Now someone finally has the guts to say it.

[ailsagirl]

20. factual inaccuracies = oxymoron

(Look it up)
:hi:

[Bolo Boffin]

26. "Do not call another member of this message board a liar, and do not call another member's post..."

"Do not call another member of this message board a liar, and do not call another member's post a lie. You are, of course, permitted to point out when a post is untrue or factually incorrect."

Factually inaccurate = factually incorrect. It's a sign of civil discourse according to DU rules. If you think these phrases are oxymorons, take it up with the administrators or moderators.

[ailsagirl]

27. Never mind... ain't worth it

:hide:

[William Seger]

22. Reality check

If you want to "get to the bottom of the lies", then you really should start with the "truth movement" bullshit that Ventura and TruTV are marketing here. "Truthers" may be excited with the prospect of Ventura's show suckering a few more gullible conspiracy cultists into their "movement" (because they also won't bother with any fact checking), but ironically, I'd say this show marks the end of the "truth movement's" prospects of every reaching any level of respectability. It's just garden variety crackpottery and brainless TruTV sensationalism now, for entertainment purposes only, and I strongly suspect that the only thing Ventura really cares about are that his head and his bank account will both be getting fatter.

[maxpower]

28. And this is based on what?

The 9/11 Report? That seals it for me. Thanks I see the light. My government would never lie to me, now I can sleep well.

[William Seger]

29. Based on the evidence

... which is mostly detailed and sourced pretty well in the 9/11 Commission Report, but that's not by any means the only source. Apparently, you aren't very far along in your personal investigation.

[maxpower]

30. The whitewash

Yup, great work of fiction. It was a crime scene right. Why no forensic investigation? Guiliani had all metal shipped to China. Let's have an independent investigation. Neither Cheney or Bush, who couldn't testify alone, testified under oath or had notes taken of their testimony. I will use the vast resources of the federal government to continue my investigation.

[Ter]

31. You'll come to our side

Once it's proven who really killed JFK, you'll see the light and stop trusting your government.

[Bolo Boffin]

32. It is already proven who killed JFK.

Lee Harvey Oswald.

[SDuderstadt]

33. It's been 46 years...

are you guys close to cracking the case? What are you waiting for?

[rollingrock]

34. There are WMDs in Iraq, and the easter bunny is real

so why wouldn't you want to trust the Bush government and the congress who voted to approve Bush's two phony wars, to tell you the truth about 9/11??

:sarcasm:

[SDuderstadt]

35. Why would you trust...

David Ray Griffin, Steven Jones, Richard Gage and Jesse Ventura to tell you the "truth" about 9/11? Who do you trust? Why don't you tell us? More importantly, tell us why.

[Lucian]

37. Did you even watch the show?

Everything he said could be proven, especially the thermite.

[LARED]

38. Really? "especially the thermite"

Please provide proof.

Thanks

[Lucian]

39. They did a demonstration right on the episode...

thermite burns warm enough to melt steel. There was construction going on around the clock in the WTC, and people were always painting.

I used to think conspiracy theorists were whackjobs, but after watching the show, I believe there is a cover-up.

[LARED]

40. How does that prove there was thermite in the WTC's? nt

[Lucian]

41. It was found in the dust from the WTC.

That's proof enough for me.

[SDuderstadt]

42. Where does thermite come from....

Lucian?

[LARED]

43. No it wasn't nt

[Lucian]

44. Um, I'll believe the scientist that analyzed it over an anonymous poster on DU.

[SDuderstadt]

45. And you know the "scientist" is right...

how?

[LARED]

47. I've read the scientists work regarding this thermite theory

and it is frankly laughable.

[Lucian]

49. Where's your evidence to suggest otherwise?

[SDuderstadt]

50. Dude...

look up the logical fallacy known as "shifting the burden of proof". Stupid question.

[LARED]

52. Are you asking me to provide evidence thermite wasn't used? nt

[rollingrock]

55. Why is it laughable?

can you explain what it is exactly you object about their report?

do you have anything to add to the discussion other than insults?

[William Seger]

57. Pretty simple, really

... and you don't need to be a chemist or materials scientist to understand why the paper is a pile of crap. And I'm sure you know it's been discussed here before: Even if you accept the paper's data at face value -- which would be very foolish -- the ridiculous conclusions drawn in the paper are simply not supported by that data. Are you just hoping that the crap will float this time if nobody challenges it?

After amply demonstrating your considerable ability to completely ignore facts and reasons that conflict with your conspiracy delusions, to the point that I seriously doubt that you even understand most of what people say to you, you've got a lot of chutzpah to ask anyone for an explanation. But go ahead and challenge me to do that and I will, if for no other reason than to demonstrate -- once again -- that (A) the paper is crap, and (B) trying to reason with "truthers" is a complete waste of time.

[LARED]

59. Thank you and I concur - nt

[rollingrock]

61. You still haven't provided an intelligent answer to my question

just more insults and ad hominem. how lame and pathetic.

and LARED is obviously incapable of speaking intelligently for himself.

[LARED]

62. What part of

"the ridiculous conclusions drawn in the paper are simply not supported by that data."

do you not understand?

Please point out in his paper where he finds thermite?

[rollingrock]

63. Can you support your wild assertions at all?

'the ridiculous conclusion....not supported by that data.'


sorry, I can't consider this wild assertion of yours to be an intelligent or serious response to the question.

[rollingrock]

64. So you haven't read it?

I find it amazing how you can trash something that you apparently haven't read.





"Please point out in his paper where he finds thermite? "



Abstract


We have discovered distinctive red/gray chips in all the samples we have studied of the dust produced by the destruction of the World Trade Center. Examination of four of these samples, collected from separate sites, is reported in this paper. These red/gray chips show marked similarities in all four samples. One sample was collected by a Manhattan resident about ten minutes after the collapse of the second WTC Tower, two the next day, and a fourth about a week later. The properties of these chips were analyzed using optical microscopy, scanning electron microscopy (SEM), X-ray energy dispersive spectroscopy (XEDS), and differential scanning calorimetry (DSC). The red material contains grains approximately 100 nm across which are largely iron oxide, while aluminum is contained in tiny plate-like structures. Separation of components using methyl ethyl ketone demonstrated that elemental aluminum is present. The iron oxide and aluminum are intimately mixed in the red material. When ignited in a DSC device the chips exhibit large but narrow exotherms occurring at approximately 430 °C, far below the normal ignition temperature for conventional thermite. Numerous iron-rich spheres are clearly observed in the residue following the ignition of these peculiar red/gray chips. The red portion of these chips is found to be an unreacted thermitic material and highly energetic....


http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/thermite/explosive_residues.html

[LARED]

65. Two points

1. many paint chips and other compounds could be classified as unreacted thermitic material, and 2. Finding unreacted thermitic materials is not the same as finding thermite.


And I have read the paper more than once. It's laughable.

Edit. corrected a cut and paste mistake.

[rollingrock]

67. Now this here is truly laughable.

"many paint chips and other compounds could be classified as unreacted thermitic material"

lol! paint chips are classified as thermitic material? wow, that's news to me.

do you have a link or anything at all to back up this truly absurd claim of yours?

thanks for the hearty laugh.

[LARED]

69. Try here

http://www.osti.gov/bridge/product.biblio.jsp?query_id=1&page=0&osti_id=658208

Click on View Full Text.

[rollingrock]

71. It doesn't say anything

there's nothing in the pdf about paint being classified as a thermitic material. a search turns up nothing about paint or paint chips either.

gee, thanks for leading me on another one of your wild goose chases! /NOT

[LARED]

74. It's not about paint.

It's a listing of thermite materials used for various reason. The point was to show you that Thermite compounds are not necessary the thermite that melts steel. Many of those materials in the list are used in ordinary construction materials.

[rollingrock]

77. "Thermite is used in ordinary construction materials"

LMAO. now I have heard it all.

[SDuderstadt]

78. Dude...

your ignorance knows no bounds.

[William Seger]

66. Have you? Pop quiz.

1. What is a "thermitic material?"

2. How do Jones&Co explain why the paint chips ignite at a much lower temperature than thermite and have an energy density higher than the theoretical limit for thermite?

3. Do ordinary paint chips ignite at a much lower temperature than thermite and have an energy density higher than the theoretical limit for thermite?

4. How did Jones&Co nonetheless conclude that the paint chips were really an "active, unreacted thermitic material, incorporating
nanotechnology, and is a highly energetic pyrotechnic or explosive material."

This is an open book quiz; feel free to crib your answers directly from the paper -- if you can find them.

[rollingrock]

68. I asked you one simple question

and you reply with more questions?

[SDuderstadt]

70. Okay, guys...

whose turn is it to babysit RollingRock. I think I have pulled more than my share of shifts.

[LARED]

72. wrong post

[LARED]

73. He should be occupied

I gave him something to read. It's about all the different thermite compounds used. He may figure out that thermite comes in many different forms and has different uses. For instance some thermite compound are used in ordinary construction materials and are not necessarily the type of thermite used to melt steel.

[SDuderstadt]

75. Give him a couple of days...

things that other people grasp easily, take a while to sink in for RollingRock. For example, one day he went on and on yammering about something being "redundant" when he meant they were an "oxymoron" and never once grasped the difference. It's really comical to watch.

[rollingrock]

76. Where does it say that?

please provide the page number.

[rollingrock]

83. How come no page number?

what's the matter? cat got your tongue?

[William Seger]

60. Oh, yeah, I watched it

... and it was about as convincing as professional wrestling, and that's probably not a coincidence. Just like professional wrestling, it was alternately laughable and sickening.

And no, not everything he said could be proven. Just like the JFK conspiracism that set the pattern, the credible facts don't really tell a convincing story of conspiracy; the "facts" that do are bullshit; and you have to completely ignore most of the credible facts to buy the "conclusions" conspiracists reach. And just like JFK conspiracism, the typical method of doing that is to assume that the evidence we have was faked and the "real" evidence was covered up. And just like JFK conspicism, the conspiracy crackpots haven't found enough "truth" to even convince each other which alternate theory is the most likely, so they engage in constant gang fights over it.

There's no reasoning with people who fall for crap like this.

[jberryhill]

89. My favorite part...

Is where Ventura and a production assistant are called back by Balloney to meet with people who "know what's on the tapes", and Balloney is standing in the parking lot saying they couldn't show up because they were threatened.

The look on Ventura's assistant's face is hilarious. He looks like he's about to haul off and punch Balloney for jerking their chain, and then does a headspin at Ventura with a look on his face like, "You aren't buying this crap, really?"

[chandler2]

84. Two points for consideration

What Jesse is doing is good and it is a story not unlike the story of the CIA and crack cocaine, which led to the downfall of Gary Webb, before two volumes of the CIA Inspector's Report that confirmed much more than what Gary Webb even alleged about the CIA's complicity in the cocaine importation.

It is a CRIME for a citizen of this country to tell a lie to a federal investigator, but it is not a crime for the government to lie to you. This is an unfair relationship. If it's a crime for us to lie to our government, it should be a crime for the government to lie to us.

[defendandprotect]

91. Really, really agree with you on that -- !!!

[defendandprotect]

92. dupe --

[Twist_U_Up]

48. WHOA.... back off with all the information. Your scarring me...

Wait...... as usual there is none.....

What a shitty response to a great post.

dud

[William Seger]

58. LMAO@U

If I give you some information, what would you do with it, Twisty? Same thing as usual, I expect.

[chandler2]

87. Is JV going to do an investigation of the Pentascam part of 9/11?

I realize that he'd have to thread the needle very carefully since he's already on record supporting the limited hangout of
planes being used (although he never said "real" planes...on the program).

It would be very, very interesting to see how he and his crew finesse the Ted & Barb BS.

[defendandprotect]

88. 9/11 is such open treason that the evidence kinda is everywhere . . .