Question about 9/11

[mikelewis]

I have come across a great many posts on this site that question the official story concerning 9/11. I was curious to know the number of people in this forum who feel that the official story of the events of 9/11 differs from the actual events the led up to and transpired on that day. Please site reasons and links if available.

I do realize that this does not have relevance to the vote fraud issue and if it is necessary to relocate or remove this post, I understand.

Sincerely,
Michael Lewis

[BlueDog2u]

1. Info on 911

Current threads will be found here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=116


And here is the archive on the topic, full of revealing discussions:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topics&forum=125

Mods will probably lock or move this, but those are your two best options for further info. Also, please get and read Michael Ruppert's *Crossing the Rubicon*. By far the best book on the subject.

[Al-CIAda]

4. A funny thing happened on the way to 'The Truth-

A funny thing happened on the way to 'The Truth'

By Karl W. B. Schwarz
Online Journal Guest Writer

September 24, 2004—I am a conservative Republican who has come to the conclusion over the past 12 months that I would not vote for Bush Cheney 2004 under bribe, duress or at gunpoint. I have come to that conclusion for many reasons that are well documented and in some instances is information that is known only to myself and several executives that I work with.

I have written a book about my experiences with the Republican National Committee (RNC) and Bush Cheney, and bring forth facts that I found stunning and disgusting to the point that I am convinced that both the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and RNC, and our political system, are in need a serious house cleaning.....

...eight of the 10 9-11 Commission members (that I know of) are directly benefiting from 9-11 or companies they represent or sit on the board of directors of that pipeline, that big Caspian Oil deal being "open for business" soon, thanks to the US controlled pipeline, so I think we can all rest assured that The Truth Commission on 9-11 has yet to convene. The ones with serious conflicts are Kean, Fielding, Lehman, Thompson, Hamilton, Gorelick, Ben Veniste, and Roemer and just for kicks, a former Lee Hamilton staffer, Christopher Kojm, was in the back office with Zelikow....

http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/092404Schwarz/092404schwarz.html

Recent Audio Interview-(Realplayer)

http://mp3.rbnlive.com/Stadt/0410/20041012_Tue_Stadtmiller.ram

----------

9/11 Commission: The official coverup guide

The Kean Commission came to New York the second week of May for a two-day set of hearings at The New School University. As hundreds of Sept. 11th family members, reporters and curious New Yorkers lined up for airport-style security checks, they received copies of a new 24-page booklet published by NY 9/11 Truth, with help from 911Truth.org.
"Scamming America: The Official 9/11 Cover-up" is named after a quote by former Sen. Max Cleland, who resigned from the commission last November with the words, "Bush is scamming America."
Cleland attacked his own commission after the other members cut a deal to accept highly limited access to CIA reports to the White House that may indicate advance knowledge of the attacks on the part of the Bush administration. "This is a scam," Cleland said. "It's disgusting. America is being cheated."
"As each day goes by," Cleland said, "we learn that this government knew a whole lot more about these terrorists before September 11 than it has ever admitted.... Let's chase this rabbit into the ground. They had a plan to go to war and when 9/11 happened that's what they did; they went to war."
The new booklet features articles about the Kean Commission's breathtaking conflicts of interest and complete failure to ask any of the questions about September 11 that really matter.

Download a PDF of the booklet
http://www.911truth.org/media/9-11_coverup_booklet.pdf


http://www.911truth.org/article.php?story=20040525104145424

[JackRiddler]

77. DU Poll on 9/11 was already held twice...

Both times by me.

Unfortunately, since I can no longer search (I haven't contributed in a while due to cashlessness), I can only find the link from the 2003 poll, but I repeated it with better-defined choices earlier this year and the majority of those who answered were definitely on the LIHOP/MIHOP track:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=233219

Can someone with search ability find the second iteration? It was much better done and the results were even more radical... there is no doubt where at least half of people here stand.

The evidence for complicity is overwhelming.

www.911truth.org

[NewsGuyOne]

5. Does Ruppert talk about Vreeland?

In crossing the RUbicon?
I know that Vreeland was the highlight of his 9/11 argument.

[BlueDog2u]

9. Yes

He says that Vreeland is a giant can of worms, was willing to lie about many things, tried to bring Ruppert down with him, but was still probably on the level about 911, and his predictions about it are verifiable. My understanding is that Vreeland is currently MIA.

[seemslikeadream]

12. Man Who Says He Predicted Sept. 11 Attacks Arrested

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=924780

If you're interested in DU soap opera on this here's more. Note that sangho and seventhson have been tombstoned
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=23964&mesg_id=23964

:hi:

[missouri dem 2]

118. I heard that seventhson had been tombstoned right after the

election but thought that sangho had been posting until very recently. Any thoughts?

[WoodrowFan]

131. yep, they're gone

Seventhson was spotting nonsense and getting off on how many DU CTers were believing everything he said, then on election night he revealed himself to be a freeper pulling their chains. Yet a lot of the CTers here STILL believe everythign he told them.

No wonder con men have a steady living.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

29. Pertinent article... quite eye opening, good thing only hundreds of

thousands read articles such as this and not millions.

http://www.guerrillanews.com/articles/article.php?id=979

Look closer at 9/11 and it seems likely Mohamed Atta was a double agent, playing both sides. Look at Daniel Hopsicker’s work in Florida, that tracks Atta’s moves in strip clubs and cocaine bars. How did Atta get in this country twice without a visa? The guy had juice. Or look at Professor Peter Dale Scott’s excellent excoriation of the 9/11 Commission Report, called How to Stop Terrorism, Al Qaeda chieftain Ali Mohamed was “almost certainly an out-of-control informant for the FBI.” Scott backs this up with sources and the paper trail. Ali Mohamed is the guy who photographed the Kenyan embassy that Al Qaeda then bombed. He’s an Al Qaeda mastermind, and like, Atta, is also Egyptian. I wonder which one of these guys was that “mole” that Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak was referring to when in Fall, 2001 he told newspapers Egyptian intelligence and Mubarak himself warned the U.S. about 9/11.

[NewsGuyOne]

50. Pakistan ISI

The chief of Pakistan's ISI wired 100,000 to Atta.
Many have said 9-11 looked more like the work of secret service than of a terrorist group (if there is a difference, I guess)

[HysteryDiagnosis]

55. Interesting take on the secret service vs terrorists... everything

you would ever want to know are at these two links... trust me they are worth the download... I have burned them for the people I care about... for the people I can't handle seeing walking around in the smoke and mirrors of 911.

http://www.bordergatewayprotocol.net/jon/media/audio/Art_Bell/art%20bell%20-%20Mike%20Ruppert%20-%20The%20%20Truth%20&%20Lies%20of%20911%20%28pt1%29.mp3

http://www.bordergatewayprotocol.net/jon/media/audio/Art_Bell/art%20bell%20-%20Mike%20Ruppert%20-%20The%20%20Truth%20&%20Lies%20of%20911%20%28pt2%29.mp3

[NewsGuyOne]

49. Vreeland was caught buying gas with stolen credit cars in Utah

He's a fraud.
I too got caught up the Vreeland story.
But I checked it out.
I interviewed lots of people. He's a fraud. He had no knowledge of 9-11.
Vreeland didn't try to bring down Ruppert. No. Ruppert tried to use Vreeland as the "centerpiece" of his argument.
He stayed on the Vreeland bandwagon long after most denounced Vreeland as a fraud.

Gotta be careful not to believe someone just because their saying something you want to believe.

[BlueDog2u]

72. Glad you enjoy the coolaid

Take a deeep deep swig.

[NewsGuyOne]

81. You mind explaining what you're talking about?

SOme of you people have a tough time communicating.

[BlueDog2u]

82. And some people do no serious research before posting

Your statement about Vreeland's trouble with the law is completely irrelevant. I reccomend Mike Ruppert's sober account of Vreeland in *Crossing the Rubicon*.

[NewsGuyOne]

85. You call that SERIOUS RESEARCH? LOL

I've read everything that there is to be read about Vreeland. Trust me.
I was as enthralled by the story as anyone, for the first couple months.
But being a reporter in Michigan, and being from Canada, I had lots of ways to do my own verifying (Vreeland's family, Vreeland's fraud victims, friends who attended trials in Toronto, etc)

Like Ruppert, I wanted the story to be true.
I just kept my healthy skepticism about me. And after hundreds of hours of interviewing and research, it became clear that facts could not be ignored.
Vreeland is/was a fraud.
Ruppert didn't want to see that. If he'd applied even 1/10th of the skepticism that he applies to the targets of his stories, he'd have come to the same conclusion, but he didn't. And He got burned.

Here's a website for your perusal.
http://www3.sympatico.ca/ron666/vreeland.html

[BlueDog2u]

86. Interesting site

Thanks for the information.

Your original post was rather flip; therefore I responded in kind. This is considerably more substantive.

[NewsGuyOne]

87. No Problem ... here's another website

I was a bit flip. It's my nature.


http://69.28.73.17/ruppertx.html

This guy is really aiming at Ruppert.

[BlueDog2u]

88. I'm not impressed by the site.

[genius]

65. Those who have really studied have concluded it was an inside job.

I suggest you get the documentaries: "9/11, In Plane Site" and "Painful Deceptions." These two videos use actual footage and statements to prove that it was an inside job. The evidence is so clear it's frightening.

[NewsGuyOne]

83. ERASED ... WRONG REPLY

ERASED

[Chimpanzee]

69. Also Rupperts DVD 'Truth and Lies about 9/11' is VERY GOOD!

[HysteryDiagnosis]

2. BluDog is right... Crossing the Rubicon is excellent... but if you want a

revealing audio... please do download the two following lectures. Be warned, this is strong stuff. Also see Mike's site wwww.copvcia.com

http://www.bordergatewayprotocol.net/jon/media/audio/Art_Bell/art%20bell%20-%20Mike%20Ruppert%20-%20The%20%20Truth%20&%20Lies%20of%20911%20%28pt1%29.mp3

http://www.bordergatewayprotocol.net/jon/media/audio/Art_Bell/art%20bell%20-%20Mike%20Ruppert%20-%20The%20%20Truth%20&%20Lies%20of%20911%20%28pt2%29.mp3

[BlueDog2u]

25. My understanding

is that the report was not released, because of 9-11.

Now, there's "timing" for you.

[VTGold]

3. Good site with interesting 9/11 day timeline:

http://cooperativeresearch.org/project.jsp?project=911_project



The most recent spooky thing I learnt was from Randi Rhodes - she said that the news consortium who counted the Florida Gore/Bush ballots from 2000, released their report stating that Gore had actually won Florida - on September 12th, 2001. How's that for timing?

[mattclearing]

6. Why not post a poll?

A poll would reveal what is obvious.

However, this is such a controversial topic, and can only serve as a way to discredit DU with the people from that other forum who will crow and laugh about it.

I will tell you right now, anyone with a brain and a healthy skepticism of the media industry questions the official story of 9/11.

That said, there are many, many people at DU who have brains and a healthy skepticism regarding said media industry.

[GettysbergII]

17. Zogby poll 8-2004: 50% of NYERS think Bush Admin complicit

http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.dbm?ID=855

On the eve of a Republican National Convention invoking 9/11 symbols, sound bytes and imagery, half (49.3%) of New York City residents and 41% of New York citizens overall say that some of our leaders "knew in advance that attacks were planned on or around September 11, 2001, and that they consciously failed to act," according to the poll conducted by Zogby International. The poll of New York residents was conducted from Tuesday August 24 through Thursday August 26, 2004. Overall results have a margin of sampling error of +/-3.5.

The poll is the first of its kind conducted in America that surveys attitudes regarding US government complicity in the 9/11 tragedy. Despite the acute legal and political implications of this accusation, nearly 30% of registered Republicans and over 38% of those who described themselves as "very conservative" supported the claim.

The charge found very high support among adults under 30 (62.8%), African-Americans (62.5%), Hispanics (60.1%), Asians (59.4%), and "Born Again" Evangelical Christians (47.9%).

Less than two in five (36%) believe that the 9/11 Commission had "answered all the important questions about what actually happened on September 11th," and two in three (66%) New Yorkers (and 56.2% overall) called for another full investigation of the "still unanswered questions" by Congress or Elliot Spitzer, New York's Attorney General. Self-identified "very liberal" New Yorkers supported a new inquiry by a margin of three to one, but so did half (53%) of "very conservative" citizens across the state. The call for a deeper probe was especially strong from Hispanics (75.6%), African-Americans (75.3%) citizens with income from $15-25K (74.3%), women (62%) and Evangelicals (59.9%).

[WoodrowFan]

128. so?

If I go to half the cities in this country I can get a similar percentage that say they believe the Earth was created in 7 days in 4004 BC. I can get an even higher percentage saying Iraq was behind 9-11.

[Abe Linkman]

132. OhReilly? Give it a try. YOU probably could do that.

"If I go to half the cities in this country I can get a similar percentage that say they believe the Earth was created in 7 days in 4004 BC."

[mikelewis]

60. Why would it discredit the people of DU?

To ask a question seems to be the central theme of the DU. That's the main reason I read what's going on these forums. I have found pure brilliance and abject ignorance on every subject concerning the fate of our country. How could a subject matter discredit the DU if the arguements are valid, and by the posts so far, they seem valid questions.

It seems as if people all over the country are awakening to an feeling that something is very wrong with the world and 9/11 has a lot to do with that awakening. For many, it has defined the way they view society and the world. Some choose fear and others choose to search for a light in the darkness. That is what the DU would offer people. Here is a place where thougts can be expressed freely but facts reign. I can think of no better place than here to hold controversial conversations. I could care less about other forums and what they laugh at.

[mattclearing]

62. You know how it is...

Two weeks ago, the freepers started posting about how we had a poll that said Bush was worse than Osama Bin Laden, and all went apeshit. Next thing you know media people who come here to see what all the vote fraud stuff is about and then get freaked out when their heads explode due to 9/11 ignorance.

Personally, I could give a shit. I'm here, I don't believe the official story, and you can take that to the bank.

[Hailtothechimp]

7. Flight 93 (Shanksville) was shot down.

I don't have a link, but bits of debris from the plane, and I think an entire engine, were found in or near Indian Lake in PA. It's at least one mile from the crash site, probably more than that. I don't doubt that the "Let's roll" story is more fantasy than reality.

What I think, but could probably never prove, is that Cheney gave the shoot down order and that was what was acted upon. It's a usurpation of the powers of the president, and he could be indicted for all sorts of things. But he won't be.

[mattclearing]

8. That's why they changed the story to "might have been a bomb"

A bomb would account for that as well. Not so sure about this being provable either, but it's certainly suspicious.

[sharman]

32. "let's roll" was real

Flight 73 was shot down precisely because the passengers had a good chance of taking control of the plane, meaning the hijackers could have been captured alive.

Recommend "The New Pearl Harbor," excellent book available on line.

My deep skepticism about 9/11 is IMO one of the strongest pieces of evidence that the election was rigged--these guys have the power and the will to do anything

[Peace Patriot]

108. Interesting idea, that.

So here's the scenario: Cheney is in charge of 9/11. Bush is clueless (except to generally understand that his friends will take care of his poor approval ratings.) He is kept out of the way. Cheney then shoots down the one plane in which the passengers fought back and had a chance to survive (and tell their stories), but fails to shoot down the one that is heading back to our nation's capitol and ends up hitting the Pentagon, though he has about an hour's notice to protect the air space over the White House, Capitol Hill, the Pentagon, the Supreme Court, the FBI--all of our nation's branches and agencies.

I have often wondered about the failure to protect our capitol's air space on 9/11, especially the Pentagon (I mean, really...you could just crash a plane into it, with no opposition?)--it nags and nags at me--but I had never quite put it together this way (thinking of Cheney directing things).

One can't help but have the feeling that the 4th plane was PERMITTED to enter DC air space, and crash into the Pentagon.

...just as the supposed hijackers appear to have been PERMITTED into our country, and ALLOWED to run around taking flight lessons at our flying schools, and moving freely about the country, organizing, receiving funds, going to lapdance bars. It's mind-boggling.

One other mind-boggling thing: In the newspaper articles about Nick Berg's beheading in May of this year, the FBI mentioned having questioned him (in the summer of 2001? --ish) about the presence of his email address and/or email password, in Zacharias Moussoui's computer (the one that Coleen Crowley was trying to get permission from DC to look at, just before 9/11--permission denied). I thought this was very, very, very, very, very, VERY...you get the picture...ODD!

Michael, I'm not sure I believe your explanation of your questions about what-all people here at DU think about 9/11. Seems like an odd time to bring it up, with DU a hot bed of election fraud activists, and that particular Bush criminal cesspool starting to get some "legs" as a news story. Just sayin.

[Al-CIAda]

10. An excellent collection films/ documentaries-

Examines how a radical fringe of the Republican Party used the trauma of the 9/11 terror attacks to advance a pre-existing agenda to radically transform American foreign policy while rolling back civil liberties and social programs at home.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Watch/download here
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/video1/hijacking_catastrophe.rm


Other films of interest available for viewing, including "The Power of Nighmares-
http://mysite.verizon.net/res7dhyg/id3.html

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

11. The "Official Story" of 9/11 is the Conspiracy Theory.

You have some good links above. To get your feet wet, and your mind starting to question, view: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article6847.htm

There have been lawsuits filed against the administration for their direct connection to 9/11. One is a class action suit filed by Stanley Hilton who used to work for Bob Dole. Here is an audio interview with him by Alex Jones. http://www.prisonplanet.tv/audio/091204hilton.htm

A RICO lawsuit has been filed against Bush et al by Ellen Mariani, who lost her husband on 9/11. Here is a link to her site which has the lawsuit.
http://www.911forthetruth.com/

At the end of November, a petition was brought to Elliot Spitzer, the Atty Gen. of NY along with evidence(including Ruppert's book) to convince him to investigate 9/11 as the mass murder that it was. Zogby did a poll during the GOP Convention, and 66% of the NYers polled wanted a criminal investigation. More than half don't buy the "official" story.

http://www.scoop.co.nz/mason/archive/scoop/stories/72/23/200411221129.2f3ac5aa.html

[TexasChick]

13. Hey, Michael. I, for one, do not believe the official story. There is a

"suspected" crock-pot by the name of Stanley Hilton, who says he has evidence that Bush ordered these attacks. Now, a lot of peeps don't believe him. I'm not sure if I believe everything he says either. But, the one thing I do believe he says is that he went to school with these neocons and did a term paper on how to turn the US into a dictatorship with them (or something like that).

Now, my belief is that these neocon/PNACers perpetrated 9/11 to further their agenda in the Middle East and try their best to set up a dictatorship here. They needed a paid boogyman, does Osama bin Forgotten ring any bells? Osama and the Chimp and Chimp's family go way back. In fact, I believe Osama and the Chimp go together like two peas in a pod. Which, brings me back to F 9/11. Remember when Chimp let the bin Forgotten's out of the US right after 9/11? Why do you think that is? I mean, if Chimp was hell-bent on finding the perpetrator of this heinous crime, you would think that he would interrogate them on where Osama was, right? Why does he still remain friends with this murderer's family? I mean, if these bin Forgottens were true friends of the Chimp and the US, you would think that they would do something to help capture bin Forgotten.

Plus, I find it really suspect that the Chimp has done everything in his power to thwart, railroad and sideswipe every independent investigation into 9/11. You would think that a president who resided over the worst terrorist attacks against the US would be willing to help us find answers to that day. But, no. He finally caved into first a partisan investigation and then an independent investigation. After the report from the independent investigation came out, he tore out 28 pages of it. Think to yourself, what does that mean? I solely believe he tore it out to protect the Saudis. I truly believe that those 28 pages told of Saudi involvement in 9/11 and the Chimp is trying to protect them. After all, 15 of the 19 hijackers were Saudis. Now why would they want to pull this off? I mean, isn't al-Queada our enemy? Isn't Osama bin Forgotten our enemy? Doesn't Osama supposedly hate the Saudis? Why weren't the hijackers mostly al-Queada members, or Iraqi's or Iranians, for that matter? Why were they mostly Saudis? That's another question that is perplexing.

Go back to that day when the Chimp stayed in that classroom after hearing of the second plane. Now imagine yourself as the president in that classroom. What would be your reaction to hearing this? Would you say "Find out WTF is going on Andrew and get back to me.", or would you sit there like the Chimp did after hearing that we are under attack and just sit there like there's no care in the world. If you cared about protecting your country, wouldn't you want to stop these people in their tracks? We had the technology (NORAD) to stop these planes. Sure, the people on the plane would have died if we shot them down, but it would have kept the planes from striking more buildings and causing greater deaths (I could be wrong on this too. I'm not too savvy on how NORAD works).

I also believe Sibel Edmonds has a lot of info to give on this as well. The insider trading at the stock market on 9/10, etc. just screams of foreknowledge of these attacks. But, General John Ashcroft ordered a gag order for her not to speak. Man, who are these people trying to protect? There are just way too many unanswered questions from that day. And, one day Michael, the truth will come out. And, God help us, whoever is responsible.

This is just all my opinion though. I'm anxiously awaiting other DUers comments as well.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

15. Moore left this out of F9/11 and it is a Powerful Indictment..when

Bush left Florida on Air Force One, he didn't have a fighter jet escort. He was up in the air, close to an hour before he did, and only when he was about to land in Louisiana. I am supplying a link to the video below of Bush leaving on AFO. Remember, American is under attack from the skies.

Bush gets out of the limo, walks up the steps of AFO all by his lonesome (not flanked by the SS), turns and waves for a photo-op. He enters AFO, and then the SS come up the stairs. The plane takes off. I investigated how long it took for AFO to have an escort, and found a recount at CBS in their anniversary reporting of Bush's day, the year before.

It is also important to note, that while 3000 lay dead on the ground, Bush had a photo-op up in AFO, and later on the pics were giving as a perk at a GOP fundraiser for $150 per plate dinner.

Here is the footage of Bush leaving Florida.

http://www.AttackOnAmerica.net/AirForceOneLeavingSarasota.ra

[TexasChick]

16. Good grief! That actually makes me sick to my stomach! Man, I wish

these people would get exposed! I know they had something to do with these attacks. I can feel it.


On edit: What do you think will come of the Elliot Spitzer petition, OmmmSweetOmmm? Do you think he will even try to mount a criminal investigation into these attacks? I sincerely hope so.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

24. It is very touch and go about Spitzer. Spitzer just declared that

He intends to run for Governor, and in that light it can go either way. He can appear like a hero by having the guts to investigate or he can play it safe. The fact is that he has the NYC poll in his favor. How it will play to upstate NY is another matter.

I believe with all of my heart that those people were behind it, and I hope to the heavens that they will be found out. The 9/11 Whitewash Commission had members all with vested interests in not revealing the truth. I don't trust their recommendations that were just for the most part passed and signed. One of the implementations is going to be a National ID card, eventually with biometrics.. Show Me Your Papers and Irises! Brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

A dear friend of mine had the opportunity in Florida, while Bob Kerrey was there campaigning for Kerry, to address him publically about the Commissions work. She as a flight attendant for years, and all but for the grace of a higher power, her plane left Newark minutes before the first plane was hijacked. She is on a mission to getting the truth out there. Well she started to tell him everything she knew, asking him why a litany of things weren't investigated, accounted for, and she said he sat there with saucer eyes, face blanched, not able to reply....

I think our best chance is with Spitzer, and we will be able to see if he is all that he's being made out to be. I just hope that he doesn't receive any envelopes in the mail with anthrax........

[TexasChick]

27. Yeah, welcome to 1984, err, uh, 2004! Big Brother's watching you! This

was the plan all along and so many Americans just don't give a crap. Hope Spitzer comes through, I really do.

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

28. Orwell "Misunderestimated" by 20 years.........

[bunny planet]

44. Plenty of Americans give a crap. Trouble is that most of them cannot

conceive of a President and Vice-President that would be evil enough to either LIHOP or MIHOP. I am friends with a few NYC firefighters and they won't hear a word against *, but if the truth ever came out and he was implicated they would tear him apart with their bare hands or die trying.

My biggest tip-offs that at least LIHOP happened comes from following Sibel Edmunds story, and also the story of the airtraffic controllers tapes from NYC airspace being torn up and destroyed by that FAA guy. Those tapes had some really incriminating info. on them, you can be sure. Also the length of time it took NORAD to get up in the air.......... so suspicious (and of course the drills for the attack that happened previous to the event) I still lean towards LIHOP, because MIHOP is just too evil to contemplate.

[TexasChick]

46. bunny planet, I appreciate your input. I know a lot of people have

different theories on what happened. But, I still believe MIHOP. I think they had to pull this off to further their agenda and to install the dictatorship. The fascists tactics from this administration is the reason I believe they had to do this.

[Al-CIAda]

19. "NORAD LIED" /War games-video link

The non-response of NORAD and lack of defense of the Pentagon.
Testimony of Sentor Dayton and an interview with Dr. Bowman (Lt. Col. Ret. USAF) by Micheal Kane. He discusses the war games planned that very morning at the exact time the event occured.

Powerful 15 min....must see imho

http://innworldreport.net/video/2004-08-04/dayton.html

[TexasChick]

20. Thanks! Very interesting. Senator Dayton is someone who is not afraid

to speak out against Chimp and his cabal about their involvement in 9/11, or lack of investigating 9/11 that is.

[Al-CIAda]

21. Gov. Ventura wants 9/11 truth on air defense

Gov. Ventura wants 9/11 truth on air defense
Black OP Radio -
Friday, August 20, 2004

Jesse Ventura is discussing a rather large problem with the official 9/11
chronology. This audio clip is from Black Op Radio (July 22nd)
BLACK OP RADIO HOST ANITA LANGLEY: On the current situation, do you
see any parallels with the way the 9/11 has
been treated?
FORMER MINNESOTA GOVERNOR JESSE VENTURA: Well, you know... At first,
again, I wanted to believe 9/11, you know. But the problem I have with
9/11 is just a real simple one. I'm trying to figure out -- and of
course they're now attempting to answer it somewhat -- how we could
have failed so miserably in not having air defense.
Because if you look back particulalrly -- I don't know if you're
familiar -- remember Payne Stewart, the golfer?
LANGLEY: Yeah, that's been brought up a few times on this program...
GOV. VENTURA: He was flying in a private jet. And when they had that
mechanical malfunction that apparently killed everyone on board, and
the jet was up there flying on automatic pilot; well it only took them
a matter of minutes to scramble a fighter jet and have it up there on
the wing. And had Mr. Stewart's plane, if it looked like it was going
to go down and hit a metropolitan area, of course they would blow it
out of the air. But when they saw it was just going to land in a field
in Nebraska , why they just let it go
down and crash on its own.
And the problem I have with 9/11 is that. Where the heck was our
defense? Who was sleeping at the wheel? While all of these planes... I
mean, I've been to air traffic control when I was Governor, and you've
got a dozen people there looking at these dials, watching every plane
in their sector. They know where it's going and they know what
direction it's supposed to be going.
Now, how is it that these planes were able to be hijacked at half hour
intervals, turned directly opposite the way they're supposed to be
going and no bells went off, no emergency sirens went off, no fighter
jets were scrambled? Just what the hell happened in that area of
time?! And that's the part that troubles me about 9/11.
HOST LEN OSANIC: Yeah, I find it troubling that the Pentagon got hit at all.
GOV. VENTURA: Yeah, I mean, here's the Pentagon, the head of our
military. How was this plane able to circle the city of Baltimore
at least once, picking out a target, and
then drive into it, and we didn't have -- nothing up in the air? There
wasn't one scrambled fighter jet up there to defend in any way, shape,
or form? Wow.
OSANIC: Or a missle battery to defend the Pentagon...
GOV VENTURA: Yeah. Anything, anything! And the thing that troubles me
about the Bush Administration, nobody ever gets fired...

http://www.total411.info/2004/08/gov-ventura-wants-911-truth-on-air.html

[TexasChick]

26. Wow, Al-CIAda! When I get time, I'll have to read this whole interview.

Man, I don't think Jesse's too happy with the Chimp administration about this. Thanks for the link.

[HysteryDiagnosis]

30. He discusses the war games planned that very morning at the exact time the

What country stood to gain the most from 911, what country has high level operatives within our Neoconned government, what country is reaping the most benefit from 911? How could these two events land on the same day randomly?? Makes you think... dudn't it.

[NewsGuyOne]

51. I remember hearing about that .. Coincidence, I think not.

A military media website even had pictures of a past drill where they mocked airplanes crashing into the Pentagon. Two weeks after 9-11, the stories and pics were removed.

[rman]

76. wow, multiple war games, mentioned in the MSM

i didn't know about.
i only knew about 'rumors' of a war game on 9/11 at the CIA.

[Carolab]

107. Yes Dayton got to the heart of this very damning part of the 9-11 report

that there was an outright coverup by NORAD.

[BlueDog2u]

34. Nice summary/eom

[Eloriel]

43. I think you meant to call him a crackpot?

As opposed to a CROCKpot? I've never heard anyone referred to as a crockpot, and I'm ROTFLMAO. Thanks for the giggle.

[TexasChick]

47. Um, yeah, thanks, professor. I meant crackpot. n/t

[TexasChick]

78. Kick! n/t

[passy]

14. I think this is the right forum for this.

If we don't believe the official version of 9/11 and suspect foul play on the government's part then we can safely assume that those barbarians would have no qualms about rigging an election.

[GuvWurld]

18. Another resource for 9/11 info

Over 100 articles compiled here:

http://www.guvwurld.org/cgi-bin/live.20040602.cgi?d=/9-11

[JoMama49]

22. Listen to 911 Truth Radio

Hi Mike,
In my humble O, the 911 hoax may not be exactly linked to the election fraud, but both events are definitely tied to the same mindset! This is a really cool radio news show dedicated solely to uncovering the truth about 2001's 911 catastrophe:

http://911truthradio.com/

[JoMama49]

23. Listen to 911 Truth Radio!

Hi Mike,

In my humble O, the 911 hoax may not be exactly linked to the election fraud, but both events are definitely tied to the same mindset! This is a really cool radio news show dedicated solely to uncovering the truth about 2001's 911 catastrophe:

http://911truthradio.com /

[Hailtothechimp]

31. Watch this for lots of good stuff on the pentagon crash

http://www.pentagonstrike.co.uk/pentagon.swf

[BlueDog2u]

33. This is not a plausible theory

For all kinds of reasons which have repeatedly been discussed on DU.

[tngledwebb]

68. Beg to differ and as seen in very same forums you cite.

Newbies, seek downstairs and you shall find, then go forth and multiply. The first DU 'internet CT' battle is still being waged in Archives, and is in many ways surprisingly similar to the more recent and more visible 'stolen election' CT. There are very good reasons why this is so.

[BlueDog2u]

71. You seem to have a rather rigid view of reality

For myself, I'm pretty sure fraud 2004 was significant, maybe even significant enough to change the election. I also am LIHOP. But, for reasons frequently stated on these threads and elsewhere, the theory that flight 77 did not strike the Pentagon is just bunkum.

[tngledwebb]

89. Why do you say that? You strongly believe the opposite

so why isn't it YOUR view of reality that is 'rather rigid?' I looked at the Flight 77 story for months and from various points of view, from the Govt's 'official' version, to the other extreme, before I arrived at a conclusion. The extant photographic evidence alone is enough, unless you want to say it is CGI or otherwise doctored.

Btw, curious how your acceptance of LIHOP evolved. And how LIHOP do you think it should get before we impeach every single lying bastard who Let It Happen On Purpose? And who are they, in your book?

[WoodrowFan]

126. totally debunked

that pice of crap video has been discredited here. Try reading posts by RH abd Sweatpea (whoSAW the crash)/ in the meantime, bye bye

[Abe Linkman]

133. Anything "debunked" by them is definitely worth viewing.

It discredits the absurd Official Fairy Tale Conspiracy, and that's what
causes your discomfort.

[Bill of Rights]

35. I used to believe the Bush Admin was blameless

But now I am in the middle of a book that has convinced me of their complicity. It was given to me by a friend. I was skeptic two days ago. Now I am a believer.

It's called, "The New Pearl Harbor" by David Ray Griffin.
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/1566565529/qid=1103495478/sr=2-1/ref=pd_ka_b_2_1/102-4776036-6092128

I had no idea that the Pentagon is armed with missles to hit approaching airplanes. I had no idea that pilots "scramble" 100 times a year when airplanes go astray from their intended routes.


I didn't believe that the Bush Admin could be this evil. Now, after reading the first half of the book, I am convinced of it.

One Amazon reviewer wrote:
Until reading this book I have despised any conspiracy theory that involved persons in any American administration doing harm to their fellow Americans.

[luaptifer]

36. bu$h admin obstruction of 911 investigation, et al

you might be interested in a few pieces i put together:

Record of Bush Administration's Obstruction of Investigation of 911
The current regime attempted by all means possible to thwart formation and function of the Independent 911 Commission. This article attempts to document that obstruction.
http://beyondcomfortablynumb.blogspot.com/2004/10/record-of-bush-administrations.html


911: Voices of Dissent to a Unanimous Bipartisan Consensus Report
The 911 Final Report is a placebo for the truth
http://beyondcomfortablynumb.blogspot.com/2004/11/911-voices-of-dissent-to-unanimous.html

Coup d'etat 2004: GOP sits on 3 incriminating reports 'til reelection is a done deal
Suppressed CIA and SIC Reports Deny the Right to Hold the Bush Administration to FULL Account on Nov 2.
http://beyondcomfortablynumb.blogspot.com/2004/11/coup-detat-2004-gop-sits-on-3.html

[bones_7672]

37. Dear mikelewis: The granola bars are out! (fruit and nuts). n/t

[Al-CIAda]

39. $100,000 reward

September 11 conspiracy theorist offers prize
Wed Dec 15, 4:47 PM ET
By Larry Fine

NEW YORK (Reuters) - Jimmy Walter has spent more than $3 million (1.5
million pounds) promoting a conspiracy theory the September 11, 2001,
attacks on the United States were "an inside job" and he is offering
more cash to anyone who proves him wrong.

The millionaire activist is so convinced of a government cover-up he
is offering a $100,000 reward to any engineering student who can
prove the World Trade Centre buildings crashed the way the government
says.

"Of course, we expect no winners," Walter, 57, heir to an $11 million
fortune from his father's home building business, said in a telephone
interview from California on Wednesday.

He said a panel of expert engineers would judge submissions from the
students.

Next month, he also launches a nationwide contest seeking alternative
theories from college and high school students about why New York's
World Trade Centre collapsed. The contest offers $10,000 to the best
alternative theory, with 100 runner-up awards of $1,000. Winners will
be chosen next June.

The World Trade Centre's twin towers were destroyed after hijackers
slammed two commercial airliners into them. The attack in New York
killed 2,749 people.

Various official investigations give no credence to Walter's theory.
A September 11 commission spokesman did not return calls seeking
comment.

Walter insists there had to be explosives planted in the twin towers
to cause them to fall as they did, and also rejects the official
explanation for the damage done at the Pentagon (news - web sites).

"We have all the proof," said Walter, citing videotapes and testimony
from witnesses.

"It wasn't 19 screw-ups from Saudi Arabia who couldn't pass flight
school who defeated the United States with a set of box cutters," he
said. He dismissed the official September 11 commission report,
saying, "I don't trust any of these 'facts.'"

Walter has spent millions of dollars to bolster support for his case,
running full-page ads in The New York Times, the Wall Street Journal,
The New Yorker and Newsweek, as well as alternative newspapers and
30-second TV spots.

He points to a Zogby poll he commissioned last summer that showed 66
percent of New Yorkers wanted the 9/11 investigation reopened.

Walter has spent about 30 percent of his net worth on his efforts.

"I am a patriot fighting the real traitors who are destroying our
democracy. I resent it when they call me delusional," he said.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/nm/20041215/od_uk_nm/oukoe_life_conspiracy

[TexasChick]

48. Nevermind. n/t

[Al-CIAda]

38. Audio from the NYC "9/11 Omissions Hearings"[

Audio from the NYC "9/11 Omissions Hearings"
Downloads-
PART I- Vital Questions NOT ANSWERED, Comission comprimised, 'Failure' rewarded
http://www.septembereleventh.org/documents/911conPartI-26.rm

PART II-
http://www.septembereleventh.org/documents/911conPartII-33.rm

PART III-
http://www.septembereleventh.org/documents/911conPartIII-28.rm

PART IV- PTEC Stock Monitoring and Terrorism Financing (JP MORGAN & CHASE)
http://www.septembereleventh.org/documents/911conPartIV-32.rm


To site-
http://www.911Truth.org/

[roenyc]

122. Vital Questions NOT ANSWERED,

Whenever someone calls me a conspiracy nut i just go to this page and ask them to answer these questions that were NEVER answered in the original 9/11 commission report. but where asked.

also OOOOOMMMMOOMMM (sorry if i got that wrong) made a good point about spitzer. he is like the NYS sheriff! big guns. if anyone could get this exposed it would be him.

but the minute he announced he was running for freaking mayor I got Ill. don't get me wrong he is a Dem and will get my vote. but does he was to hurt his chances with repubs in this state. (how many repubs are in NYS anyway) Staten islanders will not vote for a dem. big deal.

we should send him letters.

[BamaBecky]

40. For some really interesting 911 reading "Online Journal" has carried some

articles by Karl Schwarz or you can go to www.karlschwarz.com and read his articles. After that you will know what 911 was all about.

[berniew1]

41. Most of it didn't happen as public told; there's new info recently

Its a matter of record that the "supposed hijackers" weren't an accurate list of who might have been involved in whatever happened.
At least 6 or 7 of those on the list are known to not have been involved and are still alive.
The WTC towers were not knocked down by airplanes. That idea is ludicrous, not consistent with science and engineering principals. There is seismic information indicating that a huge seismic event, scale 2.1 occurred just before the buildings fell, not afterward. Like there was a huge blast in the basement of each.
Some firefighters say that they heard explosions when the buildings fell. Some other firefighters say they found the airplane black boxes that the Gov't says were never found. The Gov't said they somehow found drivers licence of hijackers undamaged on the street below.
It doesn't appear that an airliner hit the Pentagon, though something did some damage there. Witness statements were extremely inconsistent. Some didn't see what they said they saw.
Very strange no interceptors were launched to stop whatever hit the Pentagon, when its known it only takes 10 minutes to launch and they had an hour warning.
Also known that there were lots of warning the airplanes would hit something in Washington or New York well ahead of time.
Lots of documentation available. Nothing matches official story.
www.flcv.com/911sum.html and etc.

[Eloriel]

42. I can't speak for the mob of new members since the election

but the vast majority of us old timers believe 9-11 was either LIHOP or MIHOP -- Let It Happen or Made It Happen On Purpose.

One of the best places to go for background information is Paul Thompson's Timeline and other research -- which can be found at www.cooperativeresearch.org I think it is. Paul is a DUer (haven't seen him for a while tho) and also has a book out of his timeline. Terrific guy, astounding body of work.

[texpatriot2004]

63. Kick it for those who doubt and dare to question n/t

[WoodrowFan]

129. ah yes

it takes courage to believe total crap! :eyes:

[Abe Linkman]

134. Total crap? You're describing the absurd Official 9/11 Fairy Tales...

and it takes total devotion to extreme right-wing ideology...or else a something for old Hip National Bank.

[Blue_In_AK]

45. Don't know, but...

It's strange that almost immediately after 9/11 -- and I mean within a day or so -- I just had this gut feeling or premonition that the attacks weren't as transparent as they at first appeared. With the advent of the Iraq invasion, I became more distrustful. I know this isn't really scientific, and I haven't read much about it, but I just find it very odd that the alleged highjackers were mostly Saudi (our "allies"), that * managed to twist it around to justify his invasion of Iraq, that he resisted the 9/11 commission tooth and nail, Osama has apparently been let off the hook, our basic rights are being diluted to the benefit of *'s objectives, that he uses terror to keep everybody in line. It's just all too convenient, and I don't trust the official story, even the story of the commission, one bit. I don't know if I would go so far as to say it was a set-up (although it may have been), but I definitely think it's been proved that the administration turned a blind eye to all the pre-9/11 evidence that something was in the works. And I don't think there can be any doubt that the attack has worked to *'s advantage.

[7th Generation VTer]

54. I don't know all the nitty-gritty

but I do remember reading somewhere shortly after 9/11 that after the NY-bound planes had deviated from their courses, air-traffic controllers couldn't raise the crews on the radio. I also remember reading that the planes' emergency-locator beacons were disabled. These actions were instantly apparent. Whe was there not an instant reaction? At the time, in the midst of my fear and confusion, I thought, "why weren't some fighter jets sent up to try to at least make visual contact?"

After the initial shock faded I feared that 9/11 would be used as a monstrous excuse for all sorts of things -- wars, assassinations, tearing down on civil liberties. I was right. Since that time I've drifted slowly from the LIHOP camp into the MIHOP camp.

It's too dirty. The official story doesn't make sense. They've lied to us about everything else; why should we believe them about this?

Makes Watergate look like a game from a kids' birthday party, doesn't it? Damn! Where are Woodward and Bernstein and Ben Bradlee when we need them?

[BlueDog2u]

67. There were multiple war games going on 911

Some of them involved inserting false blips on air traffic controller screens. The event was timed to coincide with these games, so that no one at NORAD could interfere with the game. Definitely LIHOP at the least.

Many details here:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/

[TrustingDog]

52. who would get most gain from this (always suspicious)? I asked myself.

and the answer was not bin laden.
the answer was PNAC, which I wasn't all that familiar with on that particular day.

I distinctly recall, in those post911 days and all the reportage and video... this sewed it up for me, what I saw.
It was another broadcast from CNN of the towers .... a tiny snippet that I have never seen after and searched for to no avail to keep as bookmark:

%$#%&*$ --- burning top
%$#%&*$
||||||V|||||||||||
||||||V||||||||||| - stories below with V being the corner
||||||V|||||||||||
||||||V|||||||||||
||||||V|||||||||||
||||||V|||||||||||
||||||V|||||||||||
||||||V|||||||||||
|||<|V|>||||||| > being simultaneous 'puffs' of smoke coming out of both corners about 8 maybe 10 stories below the raging top fire.

soon after, it all came down.

camera angle was close and up, not a distance shot, but from immediate area sidewalk or rooftop of a small building.

I have still not heard of anyone seeing this. I did. absolutely.

[MissBrooks]

53. Truth vs. conspiracy theory

Do your own research.
Remember there are many conspiracy theories out there.

[TexasChick]

56. Kick. n/t

[Al-CIAda]

57. Project for the New American Century

Now here's a really interesting player-


PNAC Neocon Rabbi Dov Zakheim and the
9/11 Conspiracy

In a document called "Rebuilding America's Defenses: Strategy, Forces and Resources for a New Century" published by The American Enterprise's "Project for a New American Century"(1), System Planning Corporation (SPC) International executive, Dov Zakheim, called for "some catastrophic and catalyzing event - like a new Pearl Harbor" being necessary to foster the frame of mind needed for the American public to support a war in the Middle East that would politically and culturally reshape the region. A respected and established voice in the intelligence community, his views were eagerly accepted, and Dov went from his position at Systems Planning Corporation to become the Comptroller of the Pentagon in May 2001. (2) Perhaps not so coincidentally, it was an SPC subsidiary, TRIDATA CORPORATION, that oversaw the investigation after the terrorist attack on the World Trade Center in 1993.

SPC, according to their official website, specializes in many areas of defense technology production and manufacture, including a system developed by their Radar Physics Group called the Flight Termination System, or FTS.(3) This is a system used to destroy target drones (craft that would be fired on by test aircraft or weaponry) in the event of malfunction or "misses". This highly sophisticated war-game technology allows the control of several 'drones' from a remote location, on varying frequencies, and has a range of several hundred  miles. This technology can be used on many different types of aircraft, including large passenger jets.



President Bush Announces Seven Positions within His Administration
Dr. Dov Zakheim has been nominated to serve as Under Secretary of Defense and Comptroller.  He is presently the CEO of SPC International, and in the past he has served as Deputy Under Secretary of Defense for Planning and Resources as well as in a variety of Defense Department positions under former President Reagan.  He was a member of the Task Force on Defense Reform under then-Secretary of Defense William Cohen and in February of 2000 he was appointed to the Defense Science Board Task Force on the Impact of DoD Acquisition Policies on the Health of the Defense Industry.  He has received the Department of Defense Distinguished Public Service Medal; the Bronze Palm to the DoD Distinguished Public Service Medal and the CBO Director's Award for Outstanding Service.  A New York native, Dr. Zakheim is a graduate of Columbia University and has also studied at the London School of Economics.  He received his doctorate degree from St. Anthony's College at Oxford University.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/20010212-2.html


What did the Rabbi do?

Radar Physics Group
SPC has over 25 years of experience in the design, development, and use of radar systems. The company has provided and supported five generations of state-of-the-art instrumentation radars for the RCS community since becoming involved in the stealth program in the early 1970s. Building on years of intimate knowledge of radar applications and system design, SPC has the ability to build custom radars or use existing assets for almost any measurement campaign.
http://www.sysplan.com/Radar


--------

Background info-
PNAC primer pdf file-
http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

PROJECT PARTICIPANTS
Roger Barnett
U.S. Naval War College

Alvin Bernstein
National Defense University

Stephen Cambone
National Defense University

Eliot Cohen
Nitze School of Advanced International
Studies, Johns Hopkins University

Devon Gaffney Cross
Donors' Forum for International Affairs

Thomas Donnelly
Project for the New American Century

David Epstein
Office of Secretary of Defense,
Net Assessment

David Fautua
Lt. Col., U.S. Army

Dan Goure
Center for Strategic and International Studies

Donald Kagan
Yale University

Fred Kagan
U. S. Military Academy at West Point

Robert Kagan
Carnegie Endowment for International Peace

Robert Killebrew
Col., USA (Ret.)

William Kristol
The Weekly Standard

Mark Lagon
Senate Foreign Relations Committee

James Lasswell
GAMA Corporation

I. Lewis Libby
Dechert Price & Rhoads

Robert Martinage
Center for Strategic and Budgetary
Assessment

Phil Meilinger
U.S. Naval War College

Mackubin Owens
U.S. Naval War College

Steve Rosen
Harvard University

Gary Schmitt
Project for the New American Century

Abram Shulsky
The RAND Corporation

Michael Vickers
Center for Strategic and Budgetary
Assessment

Barry Watts
Northrop Grumman Corporation

Paul Wolfowitz
Nitze School of Advanced International
Studies, Johns Hopkins University

Dov Zakheim
System Planning Corporation

[TexasChick]

59. Sad thing is, a lot of the Bush followers think the PNAC is a good thing.

I don't really know if we will ever be able to stop them. I guess time will tell.

[BernieBear]

58. Kick

[Al-CIAda]

61. The Coincidence Theorist's Guide to 9/11

The Coincidence Theorist's Guide to 9/11
For those who buy the story, the argument for coincidence.
Happy coincidenting!

That intelligence agencies, politicians and terrorists have conducted criminal business together is well established, but BCCI and Iran/Contra were a long time ago, so there’s no need to rehash all that.

That Jonathan Bush’s Riggs Bank has been found guilty of laundering terrorist funds and fined a record setting $25 million is embarrassing, surely, but to draw sinister conclusions is foolish.

That Marvin Bush sat on the board of the Kuwaiti-owned company which provided electronic security to the World Trade Centre, Dulles Airport and United Airlines means nothing.

That George Bush found success as a businessman only after the investment of Osama’s brother Salem and Osama’s brother-in-law and al Qaeda financier Khalid bin Mahfouz is just a one-in-a-million fluke.

That Osama bin Laden is known to have been an asset of US foreign policy in no way implies he still is. That al Qaeda was active in Kosovo on the same side as NATO merely demonstrates that nothing is black and white.

The claims of Michael Springman, State Department veteran of the Jeddah visa bureau, that the CIA ran the office and issued visas to al Qaeda members to receive training in the United States, are merely sour grapes because he was fired for making such wild accusations.

That so many in the Bush White House had expressed the need for a "new Pearl Harbor" before their militarist ambitions could be fulfilled means nothing more than being in the right place at the right time.

That in May of 2001, Dick Cheney took upon himself the job of co-ordinating a response to domestic terror attacks even as he was crafting the administration’s energy policy, circumventing the established infrastructure and ignoring the recommendations of the Hart-Rudman report, merely shows the VP to be a “can do” sort of guy.

That the standing order for shooting down hijacked aircraft was altered on June 1, 2001, taking discretion away from field commanders and placing it solely in the hands of the Secretary of Defense, is simply poor planning and unfortunate timing. Fortunately the error has been corrected, since the order was reversed shortly after 9/11.

That Dave Frasca of the FBI’s Radical Fundamentalist Unit received a promotion after quashing multiple, urgent requests for investigations into al Qaeda assets training at flight schools in the summer of 2001 does appear odd, but I’m sure there must have been a good reason for it.

That over the summer of 2001 Washington received many urgent, senior-level warnings from foreign intelligence agencies of impending terror attacks using hijacked aircraft and did nothing, demonstrates the pressing need for a new Intelligence Czar.

That former lead counsel for the House David Schippers says he’d taken to John Ashcroft’s office specific warnings he’d learned from FBI agents in New York of an impending attack – even naming the proposed dates, names of the hijackers and the targets – and that the investigations had been stymied and the agents threatened, proves nothing but David Schipper’s need for attention.

That George Bush had plans to invade Afghanistan on his desk before 9/11 demonstrates only the value of being prepared.

The suggestion that securing a pipeline across Afghanistan figured into the White House’s calculations is as ludicrous as the assertion that oil played a part in determining war in Iraq.

That Afghanistan is once again the world’s principal heroin producer is an unfortunate reality, but to claim the CIA is still actively involved in the narcotics trade is to presume bad faith on the part of the agency.

Mahmood Ahmed, chief of Pakistan’s ISI, must not have authorized an al Qaeda payment of $100,000 to Mohammed Atta days before the attacks, and was not meeting with senior Washington officials over the week of 9/11, because I didn’t read anything about it in the official report.

George HW Bush and Dick Cheney spent the evening of September 10 in the Oval Office, it’s true, but they were just old colleagues catching up.

That FEMA arrived in New York on Sept 10 to prepare for a scheduled biowarfare drill is a lucky twist of fate.

Newsweek’s report that senior Pentagon officials cancelled flights on Sept 10 for the following day on account of security concerns is only newsworthy because of what happened the following morning.

That Mohamed Atta attended the International Officer's School at Maxwell Air Force Base, that Abdulaziz Alomari attended Brooks Air Force Base Aerospace Medical School, that Saeed Alghamdi attended the Defense Language Institute in Monterey merely shows it’s a small world, after all.

That Mohammed Atta dressed like a Mafioso, had a stripper girlfriend, smuggled drugs, was already a licensed pilot when he entered the US, enjoyed pork chops, drank to excess and did cocaine, was closer to Europeans than Arabs in Florida, and included the names of defence contractors on his email list, proves how dangerous the radical fundamentalist Muslim can be.

That 43 lbs of heroin was found on board the Lear Jet owned by Wally Hilliard, the owner of Atta’s flight school, just three weeks after Atta enrolled – the biggest seizure ever in Central Florida – was just one of those things.

That Hilliard’s plane had made 30-round trips to Venezuela with the same passengers who always paid cash, that the plane had been supplied by a pair of drug smugglers who had also outfitted CIA drug runner Barry Seal, and that 9/11 commissioner Richard ben-Veniste had been Seal’s attorney before Seal’s murder, shows nothing but the lengths to which conspiracists will go to draw sinister conclusions.

Reports of insider trading on 9/11 are false, because the SEC investigated and found only respectable investors who will remain nameless involved, and no terrorists, so any profit-taking was merely coincidental.

That Hani Hanjour, the pilot of Flight 77, was so incompetent he could not fly a Cessna in August, but in September managed to fly a 767 at excessive speed into a spiraling, 270-degree descent and a level impact of the first floor of the Pentagon, on the only side that was virtually empty and had been hardened to withstand a terrorist attack, merely demonstrates that people can do almost anything once they set their minds to it.

That Mohammed Atta left a uniform, a will, his driver's license and a video "how to fly planes" in his rental car at the airport means he had other things on his mind.

The very mention of Israelis with links to military-intelligence having been arrested on Sept 11 videotaping and celebrating the attacks, and of a warning of impending attacks delivered to the Israeli company Odigo two hours before the first plane hit, is the vilest kind of anti-Semitism and should not be dignified with a response. That the stories were also reported in the Israeli media is a sad display of self-hatred among certain elements of the Jewish Left.

That multiple military wargames and simulations were underway the morning of 9/11 – one simulating the crash of a plane into a building; another, a life-fly simulation of multiple hijackings – and took many interceptors away from the eastern seaboard and confused field commanders as to which was a real hijacked aircraft and which was a hoax, was a tragic coincidence, but no less a coincidence.

That the National Military Command Center ops director asked a newly-qualified substitute to stand his watch at 8:30 am on Sept. 11 is nothing more than bad timing.

That the black boxes were either never found or were unrecoverable was a first for these particular boxes, but there's a first time for everything.

That a recording made Sept 11 of air traffic controllers’ detailing the events of the day, was destroyed by an FAA official who crushed it in his hand, cut the tape into little pieces and dropped them in different trash cans around the building, is just one of those things.

That the FBI knew precisely which Florida flight schools to descend upon hours after the attacks should make every American safer to know their federal agents are on the ball.

To insinuate evil motive from the mercy flights of bin Laden family members and Saudi royals after 9/11 shows the sickness of the conspiratorial mindset.

Le Figaro’s report in October 2001, known to have originated with French intelligence, that two CIA agents met Osama bin Laden in a Dubai hospital in July 2001, proves again the perfidy of the French.

That the tape in which bin Laden claims responsibility for the attacks was released by the State Department after having been found providentially by US forces in Afghanistan, and depicts a fattened Osama with a broader face and a flatter nose, proves Osama masterminded 9/11.

That the White House went on Cipro September 11 shows the foresightedness of America’s emergency response.

That the anthrax was mailed to perceived liberal media and the Democratic leadership demonstrates only the perversity of the terrorist psyche.

That the anthrax attacks appeared to silence opponents of the Patriot Act only shows that appearances can be deceiving.

That the Ames-strain anthrax was found to have originated at Fort Detrick, and was beyond the capability of all but a few labs to refine, underscores the importance of allowing the investigation to continue without the distraction of absurd conspiracy theories.

Sibel Edmonds is an attention-seeking nutcase. And since John Ashcroft has gagged her and classified her public testimony, we should speak no more of her.

But most of all, remember: there are no secrets, governments would never accept civilian casualties for geostrategic gain, and conspiracies are for the weak-minded and gullible.

http://rigorousintuition.blogspot.com/2004/08/coincidence-theorists-guide-to-911.html

[IndyPriest]

64. Geez, Al-CIAda -- if I knew you could do this summary

I wouldn't have spent the last 6 hours reading Paul's 9/11 timeline! And I'm only through the first half of Sept. 11. So, save me another five hours of reading: if you know this, what the hell happened to Flight 77 if it didn't crash into the Pentagon?

[Al-CIAda]

73. Timeline

I can not/ do not have an answer for your flight 77 question, but from the timeline that you refer to...

Why did the White House go on Cipro Beginning September 11th?
Were they psychic, or did they know?


Nearly a month before the first reported outbreak, White House officials start taking the powerful antibiotic Cipro to treat anthrax. By the end of the year it will be known that the Ames strain of anthrax used in the attacks against Sens. Leahy and Daschle was produced by CIA programs coordinated through Fort Detrick, the Batelle Memorial Institute and the Dugway Proving Ground.


FBI & BUSH ADMINISTRATION SUED OVER ANTHRAX DOCUMENTS

Judicial Watch Wants to Know Why White House Went on Cipro Beginning September 11th

What Was Known and When?
(Washington, DC) Judicial Watch, the public interest group that investigates and prosecutes government corruption and abuse, said today that it has filed lawsuits against the Federal Bureau of Investigation (“FBI”), the Department of Health and Human Services (“HHS”), the Center for Disease Control (“CDC”), the U.S. Army Medical Research Institute of Infectious Diseases (“USAMRIID”) and the U.S. Postal Service (USPS) for those agencies’ failures to produce documents concerning the terrorist anthrax attacks of October 2001, under the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act (“FOIA”).

http://www.judicialwatch.org/1967.shtml

-------------
Complete 911 Timeline: Anthrax attacks and microbiologists
Project: Complete 911 Timeline
Open-Content project managed by Paul Thompson

[TexasChick]

79. You share great articles, Al-CIAda. Thanks. n/t

[TexasChick]

66. And, after reading this summary, they still expect us to not believe that

something is fishy? I guess time will tell, if the truth will ever be able to rear it's head.

[tngledwebb]

70. Read the DU archives,

google 'killtown' for various links and sites, read the New Pearl Harbor. Take your time. There are three interlocking parts to the puzzle that explains what has happened to this country, and how: stolen elections 2000 and 2004, MSM complicity, and the events of the day of 9/11. Understand one, understand the others.

[Al-CIAda]

74. Spies in Pentagon Ignored

Spies in Pentagon Ignored
CIA Told Top Brass Of Israeli Spooks Over Six Years Ago

 By Richard Walker

 Recent revelations of a year-long FBI probe into Pentagon insider Larry Franklin, a Defense Intelligence Agency official, have startled the United States, revealing evidence that a mid-level official passed classified documents about Iran to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC), a powerful lobbying group in Washington.

However, warnings about an Israeli spy in the Pentagon are not new. They were voiced in 1998 by then CIA Director George Tenet, but quickly ignored.

Tenet at the time was concerned that the Israeli intelligence service, Mossad, had a mole deep in the Pentagon and a concerted effort was needed to root out the traitor.

The CIA chief’s recommendation fell on deaf ears despite the fact there was information showing that Israel had stolen America’s nuclear secrets and in the mid 1980s had acquired U.S. naval nuclear codes.

Both the Israeli government and the committee have dismissed espionage charges, arguing that the information was not classified and it is regularly shared informally.

AIPAC, which boasts a membership of 65,000, is one of the most powerful lobbying groups in D.C. with allies in both the Democratic and Republican parties.

Earlier this year, President George W. Bush praised AIPAC for highlighting the most dangerous and “greatest challenges of our times” and praised its role in exposing Iran’s pursuit of nuclear weapons.

Nonetheless, the FBI probe raises important issues of how much U.S. policy is shaped publicly and perhaps secretly by Israel and its neo-conservative supporters in Washington.

Franklin is a former Air Force colonel who spent two periods of duty as a Defense Department staffer at the U.S. embassy in Tel Aviv. Before the latest Iraq war, he acted as a liaison officer during meetings between Deputy Defense Secretary Paul Wolfowitz and leading Iraqi clerical figures.

Franklin’s supporters say that he is a mid-level Pentagon officer working on policy deliberations that are often widely reported in the media and therefore not secret. Some of those deliberations center around arguments about whether the United States should finance Iranian dissidents in order to weaken the rule of the clerical leadership in Teheran. In that capacity he works under Douglas Feith, the undersecretary of defense for policy.

As AFP has consistently reported, Feith, Wolfowitz and Richard Perle, former chairman of the Defense Policy Board, calculatingly shaped a pro-Israel agenda in national security circles in Washington.

These neo-conservatives, among other things, promoted Ahmed Chalabi, the now disgraced former head of the Iraqi National Congress.

In December 2001, Franklin, the man at the center of the latest espionage claims, had a secret meeting in Rome in December 2001 with Manucher Ghorbanifer, an Iranian with a complex history.

Ghorbanifer is a former agent of the late Shah of Iran’s notorious SAVAK secret police, which was infamous for its use of torture.

In 1985, when Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini’s Iran was losing its war with Saddam Hussein’s Iraq, Ghorbanifer became a tool of the Israelis. At that time, Israeli policy advocated by David Kimche, a former head of Mossad, was to secretly supply Iran with weapons. Despite Israel’s distaste for Khomeini and his clerical leadership, Israel wanted to keep Iran in the war with Iraq in order to weaken both its Islamic neighbors. As for the United States, the Reagan administration was fixated with getting hostages released from the clutches of the Iranian-backed Hezbollah terrorist organization in Beirut, Lebanon.

Kimche saw an opportunity to get the United States secretly involved in an arms-for-hostages deal with the Iranian government, even though the United States was providing support to Saddam.

Con't.-

http://www.americanfreepress.net/html/spies_in_pentagon.html

[sportndandy]

75. Pentagon cover-up video

http://www.freedomunderground.org/memoryhole/pentagon.php

[peacetalksforall]

80. There are three intriguing theories....

. The measurements of the 'thing' that left a hole in the wall of the Pentagon vs the measurements (tail height and wing span) of a 757.

. A timeline theory about how all the passengers ended up on flight # 93. If not linked above, enter - responder + Harrisburg + 9-11 and/or flight path(s).

. Check out everything that you can find on the internet about remote control of aircraft and new technology. You can also enter the name Dov.

[rman]

90. a series of holes in the walls

It's not to be expected that the tail fin (or the wings for that matter) of a jetliner would make much of a hole in the bunker-like outer wall of the Pentagon. What's odd though is that *something* punched a series of holes - in a straight line, all more or less the same size - all the way through to the inner wall of the third ring, very much like what a bunker-buster type ordinance would do. I'm not concluding that it was a bunker-buster (minus the secondary charge), but such damage seems very hard to explain by a plane crash.

[Carolab]

117. Also investigate the twoflights at Cleveland Hopkins on 9/11

one that was Delta 1989 and one that was originally identified as flight 93 but then later became "flight X". The first flight contained some 69 passengers who all disembarked after about two hours and a "bomb search" into a "secured building" (the FAA building) while Flight X which supposedly contained over 200 passengers (although flight 93 originally listed only 33 passengers), sat by itself for most of the day on the other end of the runway by the NASA facility, and from which air traffic controllers originally reported hearing screams, although this story later changed. Also, the air traffic control facility outside of Oberlin Ohio controls most of the air traffic for the NE area of the US and its own regular controllers were not allowed access into their own facility, when an unidentified person from Cleveland Hopkins arrived to take over the scene that day. Add to this the fact that FAA logs from that day do not list either flight 77 or flight 11 and in fact list both planes as having been destroyed.

http://www.parapolitics.info/phorum/read.php?f=31&i=527&t=527

[WoodrowFan]

125. total BS

here's a real ATC here who'll tell you your entire post is untrue.

bye bye

[Abe Linkman]

135. A n ATC that doesn't see the absurdity of the OCTheory is an ATC...

who is blind.

[bobbieinok]

84. IMO, at least LIHOP for the following reasons...

..W's (non)actions in the classroom

..the delay in sending Air Force after the hijacked planes

..the stone-walling on investigating 9-11

..the Patriot Act ready 'so quickly'

..Ashcroft not flying

..getting rid of debris so quickly --- this not as important

..and then reading PNAC, that they 'needed a new Pearl Harbor'

[tngledwebb]

91. Why not MIHOP?

Or if 'only' LIHOP, do you not think these suspects would have been hauled before a grand jury/court martial within a few months of 9/11, if we truly lived in a real democracy?

[satori]

92. To many theories only cloud the facts

I have done extensive research into 9/11. As a former Nuclear weapons protester I have concluded, that 9/11 was the result of what the spies call blowback. I'm not that familiar with spying techniques, but the fact is that most major religions of the world such as Christianity, Muslim, Buddhism, Hinduism, and the Jews have co existed under relative peace for at least the past 100 years.

So the only way that 9/11 could of occurred is if some government agency such as the CIA for example had government spies that would use religious institutions to manufacture violence.

The operation got out of control the spies switched sides then the world had to watch 9/11. It is unfortunate because the governments of the world know exactly whom did 9/11 and they know were they are now but they do not want to have them caught because they will let the world know that they were financed by the US government.

The scientists that built the A Bomb as soon as they built it advocated to have it dismantled because they foreseen the eventual events such as 9/11. Why? Well the technology of Wars are to powerful for man to control they concluded. They said that that the military technology that we now call the military-industrial-complex would eventually be run by non-professionals to save on the cost of running it. So the Warmongers that built the bomb said well we don't need to invest on a good spy operation because no one will come across our borders because the USA government has a stockpile of 3 or 4 thousand Nuclear weapons.

So the military-industrial complex got out of control in buying and selling of weapons including weapons such as the A Bomb. 100 or so suit case Nukes that were missing from the Russian stockpile more then likely are sitting right here in a ex-CIA Muslim spy safe house right here in the USA.

[tngledwebb]

93. Could you clarify your points a bit?

Are you saying the CIA was involved or the terrorists used the CIA or US Government in some way as cover for the attacks? Or were the high-jackers just patsies? Or...

[satori]

94. CIA was involved

The CIA or some other spy agency maybe the Saudi secret service are the only agencies capable of funding and training the Islamic terrorists that performed 9/11. The CIA is in the business of manufacturing violence for political purposes.

The major religions of the world don't manufacture violence and create suicide bombers.

The media would love to have the sheeple think that this war is a religious war between the Jews, the Christians, and the Muslims, but the fact of the matter is that none of those or any religion in the world is capable of producing fanatics such as the 9/11 suicide bombers.

Only a military could produce it or a spy agency. It is unlikely a military would produce them because it would be to risky.

[tngledwebb]

95. So, Lihop or Mihop?

n/t

[Al-CIAda]

96. FYI

Former German Defense Minister Confirms CIA Involvement in 9/11: Alex Jones Interviews Andreas Von Buelow


http://www.prisonplanet.com/jones_report.html

[tngledwebb]

103. Thanks Al-CIAda,

I've read the interview, very interesting. Prisonplanet itself is not my preferred source, but as with many 9/11 issues, sometimes got to take it where we find it.

[DrBlix]

113. WTC Building 7

This takes awhile to load but worth it.
http://www.wtc7.net/vdocs/wtc7_collapse2.mpg

[wlubin]

97. 911 was done by bush so that he would have the backing of the

american ppl to go into the middle east and do everything he is doing. it was all spelled out by a neocon document located here

http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf

also check out

http://www.globalissues.org/Geopolitics/Empire/Bush.asp

and of course a good starting point for the 911 truth movement is at

http://www.letsroll911.org/

Oh yeah, the official explanation for 911 is definitely a big lie.

[MellowOne]

98. As a former flight attendant

My first thought on Sept. 11 was, it had to be an inside job! There's no way they can pull this off without inside help. Many pilots I know felt the same.

Thanks for all the great links on this thread.

One I found very interesting is: http://www.911timeline.net.

[tngledwebb]

99. Tell us more, MellowOne, if you care to.

What in your flight attendant experience made you think it was an inside job? It took me about 6 months to even consider that option, another six to more or less accept it. I'm not in the aviation industry or anything similar, so your POV would be very interesting.

[MellowOne]

100. More than a feeling

Because the planes are so tightly monitored. Pilots submit a flight plan before each flight. The control tower knows their every move. The main reason is to avoid midair crashes (legal separation), and it puts all other planes in vicinity in jeopardy. If they need to deviate off the flight plan for any reason, they have to get clearance from the tower. A large radar screen monitors every plane. If four planes, at one time, are off course as much as the four planes of 9/11, it would be a HUGE RED ALERT. Alarms would be going off all over the country. Jets would be scambled. Several Air Forces bases are within minutes of DC and NYC. Jets could have been scambled in minutes as they are always on alert. It was about 15 minutes between the first jet hitting the WTC before the second plane hit. During that time, with another plane flying as much off course as the first, there should have been (in reality) a fighter jet flying side-by-side threatening to shoot it down. After two planes hitting the WTC, there is no way that a third plane would be allowed to go off course towards DC. This is just simply impossible. Plus the FBI confiscated all the tapes between traffic controllers and pilots. Too many unanswered questions. The pilots I know do not understand how the towers let this happen, and nobody will listen to the complaints.

[tngledwebb]

101. Yes, the events of that day were outrageously improbable...

There is much discussion in the Archived section 9/11 forum, if you can find your way there sometime. It gets a bit heated, though...

[flyarm]

120. from an AA flight crew

American has a screen the size of a football field that tracks each and every flight in the air...and the control towers know where every plane is..and AAflt 11 2 flt attendants called into american telling all that was going on on flt 11...and one such flight crew called in almost 34 minutes before the first impact on the wtc...so where the hell was norad???
and without putting anyone in danger by telling too much..read up about egypt air crash off ny...and what was done and how plane reacted ..how the aircraft reated to certain moves by the pilot who was the extra international pilot...see what the plane computers did to that plane...and you will see that what happened to Ua 93 could not have happened the way it did with all engines engaged and computers engaged!!
although the egypt air was a 767, and Ua 93 was a 757 they have the same computers...they would react the same!!
realize the pilot on egypt air was trying to crash that plane..see how the computers reacted, and why that plane crashed..or better stated tore apart!!
fly

[flyarm]

119. as another retired flight attendant i agree!!

as a retired 33yr AA flight attendant ny based 2001 flight attend of the yr i whole heartedly agree with previous poster mellow one...this was one of only a couple things..eithr bush and co were in on it, complicit criminally , or he is too stupid to be the garbage man, my apologies to garbage men!!
i had the opportunity prior to election to be in a 20 person round table at univ of tampa with one of the 9/11 commissioners...well i went on attack, i was ready with 3 successive questions , of which the commissioner never even attempted to answer , and i had my husband prepped to ask 2 questions..the commissioner never even tried to answer my questions and was wide eyed, and he knew darned well i knew he was a bold faced liar, and he answered my husband with nothing but crap!
my first question was why was jeb bush never subpoenaed(sp) about signing an executive order to put fla into marshall law 4 days prior to 9/11..and why was Marvin bush not subpoenaed for being part owner to the security company involved with the wtc and the 3 airports involved in 9/11..and why was sibel edmonds not subpoenaed with the intelligence she has , very vital evidence..and who did the stock "put" options on American and United Airlines ..why was the money not followed or was it??
and how or why were we going to have an election with a cia report naming names of people in this admin not revealed before any election took place??
and why the supplemental report of the 9/11 commission not going to be released that names names within this admin for failures before this election was going to take place..
and why was not one airline flight crew given a state dept warning before 9/11 with all the intelligence bush sat on??? And why was bush not in jail!!!! for the very least manslaughter for negligence!!

[roenyc]

123. The new pearl harbor

[Gary173]

102. A link

with info on the many aspects of 9-11.

http://globalresearch.ca/articles/CHO409D.html

[Al-CIAda]

104. Conservative Christian Republican Demands 911 Truth

Conservative Christian Republican Demands 911 Truth
Special Report
A funny thing happened on the way to 'The Truth'
By Karl W. B. Schwarz
Online Journal Guest Writer
September 24, 2004—I am a conservative Republican who has come to the conclusion over the past 12 months that I would not vote for Bush Cheney 2004 under bribe, duress or at gunpoint. I have come to that conclusion for many reasons that are well documented and in some instances is information that is known only to myself and several executives that I work with.
I have written a book about my experiences with the Republican National Committee (RNC) and Bush Cheney, and bring forth facts that I found stunning and disgusting to the point that I am convinced that both the Democratic National Committee (DNC) and RNC, and our political system, are in need a serious house cleaning. America needs leadership, not an endless stream of talking heads and game show hosts to keep us entertained.

CONTINUED-
http://www.onlinejournal.com/Special_Reports/092404Schwarz/092404schwarz.html

----------------

Here’s his letter to Bush-

September 30, 2004
By Email, By Facsimile to White House


Mr. President,
I am a Conservative Christian Republican that has no intentions of voting for you in this year's election and many other Conservative Republicans are following me.
America demands the TRUTH and not after the elections; this nation demands the truth from you RIGHT NOW! This letter and an identical email will be going out to hundreds of thousands by me, millions by others. The following content was sent to the White House by facsimile earlier today from Ground Zero in New York City.

1. I demand as an American citizen that you lift the "gag order" on Sibel D. Edmonds and let Americans know what foreign names and what AMERICAN NAMES she uncovered in her FBI translations that were involved in drug trafficking, money laundering and the financing of 9-11. Her facts and your "official story" lies do not add up. Americans demand the truth on that matter before the election.

2. I demand to know what energy companies were in that Cheney Energy Task Force meeting and what discussions there were as to the steps that would be taken to remove the Taliban and Bridas Corporation as the last remaining obstacle to the United States controlling the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline. I met that company in 1999 and have known since then about the Bridas v Unocal, $15 billion interference of contract lawsuit in US District Court, Southern District of Texas. I also know about the Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals decision on September 9, 2003 that upheld the Bridas $500 million arbitration settlement and the March 22, 2004 denial of Writ of Certiorari at the United States Supreme Court, Case 03-1018, Turkmenneft v Bridas.

3. I demand to know how many prisoners are being held at GITMO and other places that are either BRIDAS EMPLOYEES or are persons that know all about Bridas Corporation and what your administration did to get control of that Trans-Afghanistan pipeline.

4. I demand to know how many board meetings Condoleezza Rice and Thomas Kean sat in on at Chevron and Amerada Hess where it was discussed how they were going to deal with making the billions in "Big Oil" investments into a land locked Caspian Basin and how to get rid of the Taliban and Bridas so they could turn those investments into cash flow. How many times did Big Oil ask for military force to complete a commercial transaction they could not get under their control, and on what exact date did you agree to provide such military force - prior to 9-11? Isn’t it true Mr. Bush that the Cheney Energy Task Force discussed that attack on Afghanistan and removal of the Taliban / Bridas obstacle once and for all – and did so well in advance of 9-11?

5. I demand to know why you appointed 10 persons to the 9-11 Commission, 8 of which are directly benefiting by the Taliban / Bridas "contract" obstacle being removed - breached with military force, and the big Caspian Oil deals that are now coming to market. No, America does not 'thank you' for that nor do we hold such despicable conduct up high.

6. I demand to know what US Oil Company stepped up as the sponsor of that OPIC and Asia Development Bank funded Trans-Afghanistan pipeline and what US company is constructing that pipeline right now, and what US firms are supplying the key components and their relationship to your administration.

7. I demand that you identify the company and persons who were going around Bridas to be "natural gas suppliers" to the US owned natural gas electrical generation plants in Pakistan (Dynegy - Illinova /Tenaska, El Paso (2 OPIC financed transactions) and others.

8. I demand to know why you have not been truthful with the American public that your GWOT and military policy are protecting the Caspian Basin Oil and Gas deals for many of your Bush Pioneers, some $9.6 trillion in oil and about $3 trillion in natural gas, now mostly in the hands of your elite wealthy contributors and some elite Liberals to keep this all quiet.

9. I demand to know what role the post-bankruptcy ENRON (Prisma Energy International, Cayman Islands) is playing in the Caspian Basin area, the same Enron that uses the law firm of Mayer Brown Rowe & Maw that established the offshore SPE's for assets that were never under the jurisdiction of the U.S. Bankruptcy Court.

10. I demand to know why you appointed Richard Ben Veniste to the 9-11 Commission when it was his law firm that was stalling Bridas Corporation at the Fifth Circuit US Court of Appeals in the matter of Bridas Corporation v. Turkmenneft and his law firm is directly involved in Pakistan, Turkmenistan, Kazakhstan and Uzbekistan and your administration.

11. I demand to know the exact date of the order that had our military practicing in early 2001 the invasion of Afghanistan to take out the Taliban and Bridas Corporation and make that pipeline under control of US interests, many of your Bush Pioneers, and the exact date that our military started practicing and preparing for that invasion.

12. I demand to know who Remington Holdings Ltd is, and Western Acquisitions, Inc, both Baker & Botts clients and the lucky recipients of OPIC financing to acquire oil and gas deposits in Pakistan. Who are the parties involved in those entities by name and benefited from such governmental magnanimity? Is this transaction a payoff? Since American taxpayers are footing the bill, we have the right to know - right now.

13. I demand to know why you could not find 10 people to sit on the 9-11 Commission that are not directly benefiting from the actions you have taken and the lives you have cost or otherwise ruined. Why would you select people not motivated to find the truth for that would impact “their bottom line”?

14. I demand a full disclosure from your administration as to the Citibank / IFTRIC / OPIC / Export-Import Bank financing of American / Israeli based deals in Islamic nations on behalf of your major campaign contributors.
"IFTRIC and Citibank have an agreement allowing Citibank to finance approved IFTRIC-backed transactions. Citibank Israel CEO Nandan Mar said: ‘The Citibank branch, and the Structured Trade Finance Group, view IFTRIC’s program as a basic product for the bank’s domestic activities.’"
I see distinct differences between "terrorism" and "outrage" (Shurtan II) at your policies.

15. I demand to know why you wanted an entire new division of the CIA for Argentina. As an American citizen I take umbrage to your belligerence towards a nation that is not an enemy of the United States by any stretch of the imagination, except possibly yours. It is abundantly clear that your intentions were solely to intimidate Argentina and Argentina based Bridas Corporation into silence and that is NOT AMERICA. That has every appearance of the United States acting as the terrorist and a state sponsor of terrorism. Yes, you are wrapped in a flag but I clearly see that it is not the one you purport it to be.

16. I demand to know why your administration has never disclosed that DynPort Vaccine, LLC, owned by DynCorp and now owned by Computer Sciences Corporation, a Bush Pioneer, is a possible source for where the weaponized Ames Strain of anthrax came from that was used against this nation. How did your administration manage to miss one of your campaign contributors and a company doing large volumes of business with your administration and even being known euphemistically (DynCorp) as The Mercenary Company? Who put that Contract on America?

17. I demand to know how you can claim a pretense of being a Christian while sponsoring and condoning the torture of prisoners, including sodomizing children, at Abu Ghraib prison.

18. I demand to know how your administration can send firms overseas as "representatives of this nation" that were convicted of running a flesh trade in little girls in Bosnia, specifically one DynCorp. Convicted in Texas and the United Kingdom according to reports I have seen and apparently detested in Afghanistan. You do recall that DynCorp is the company providing security to protect your puppet Karzai in Afghanistan and your other puppet Zalmay Khalilzad is deterring anyone from running for President in that bogus “free” democracy?

19. I demand to know why your administration keeps running the name and photos of Adnan G. El Shukrijumah as the "dirty bomb boogeyman" and on March 25, 2003 the FBI knew exactly where to find him and did not go after him. That telephone call was made from my telephone by a Canadian friend that was in Little Rock on that date, Mr. Bush, so do not pretend "national security" with me. I am "first person" on this matter and all of America deserves to know the extent that your administration has been and is lying to us all – and someone that is not Al Qaeda is probably “dropping a suspect name” as they set up a dirty bomb attack. Sure have pushed up the oil and gas prices with your strategy though, guess we can consider that another "Mission Accomplished".

20. I demand to know why your administration keeps referring to Adnan G. El Shukrijumah as a “Saudi” when the FBI knows full well he is not Saudi. His family is from Guyana in South America and they have lived in Florida since 1986 without incident. His grandparents were from Yemen, moved long ago to South America and his mother is from Trinidad & Tobago.

21. I demand to know why you alerted India, Pakistan and "Axis of Evil" member Iran of your intentions to attack the Taliban / Bridas well before 9-11, and not notify the citizens of this nation. That matter was reported on June 26, 2001 in India newspapers.

22. I demand to know the exact date that the first meeting, first page of the Patriot Act was started by your administration.

23. I demand to know why it is you, your backers, certain Democrats that apparently “hate our freedoms” more than these purported GWOT Islamic fundamentalists, hence the Patriot Act that treats all Americans with the same degree of contempt and disdain you treat all non-wealthy Americans.

24. I demand to know why Homeland Security is protecting this government and not protecting this nation.

25. I demand to know why any dissent or objections to your Orwellian, imperialistic, pro-corporate agenda is referred to the Homeland Security Counter-Terrorism Division.

26. I demand to know why you defile everything you touch and try to twist it into something that is pro-Bush Backers and anti-American citizens and then try to alter our rights as Americans via Patriot Act measures that are designed to force America into submission and does nothing to protect this nation, only this government.

27. I demand to know why your administration is planning a “pro-Bush Pioneers pharmaceutical program” derived from TMAP (Texas Medical Algorithm Project) and PENNMAP (Tom Ridge, Pennsylvania) to have Americans tested under guidelines prepared by your Bush Pioneers and force psychotropic drugs on Americans.

28. I demand to know why your administration keeps injecting our troops with an anthrax vaccine known to be deadly and harmful to the health of our soldiers and now apparently wish to inject that into all Americans under Project BioShield and martial law. Is that why you have no concern whatsoever for the 3 million jobs lost, for between your TMAP lunacy and Project BioShield lunacy, well over 3 million Americans could perish if the same statistical rates hit the general population as has hit our military? Can you explain away Holocaust with “brilliant strategy policy” driven by unmitigated greed?

29. I demand to know why Li Ka-shing was denied Global Crossing on national security grounds (very public) yet allow him in the back door in Savi Technology (not disclosed), the RFID technology company that is purportedly protecting our ports from insertion of a nuclear bomb into this nation via “ocean going containers”. How many doors are left wide open by your administration in this GWOT Fable?

30. I demand to know why you search the world for mythical terrorists and cannot find robber barons and financial terrorist right under your nose. That many of them are Bush Pioneers and even backers of the Democratic Party, and have plundered the investors, workers and citizens of this nation, is very apparent to Americans and not very pro-family on your part.

Christians do not lie, Mr. Bush, for that is an affront to God. A Christian would not willfully mislead this nation, nor send our troops into Harm’s Way for a lie while your wealthy contributors take over a $9.6 trillion oil, $3.0 trillion natural gas deal and already maneuvering for Africa. You are proving to the world that you are terrified of the truth and have impeded every investigation into the truth. Your actions prove that you are not an upstanding Christian, nor are you a Conservative Republican worthy of that designation.
Your position as President does not make you unaccountable to the citizens of this nation, nor does it entitle you to act as a tyrant, an emperor, or serving only those Americans that dole out money for your political ambitions and agendas. I see no “stewardship” in your conduct whatsoever.
You have "Mission Accomplished" three times - the removal of Taliban / Bridas to control that pipeline, radically escalated the price of oil and gas for some of your major backers, and the death and maiming of many due to your lies. Your "Iraq Strategery" makes perfect sense to me, since all of you needed a diversion away from Afghanistan, the Caspian Basin and what you did to Bridas Corporation to get control of that $9.6 trillion in oil, $3 trillion in natural gas.
Go back home and wrap yourself in the flag of Texas and the shame you alone are responsible for creating. Your resume is your doing and yours alone.
If you were running against me this year, you would not have the guts to stay on the stage in a debate with me.
Shame on all of you, both sides of the aisle that have lied to America and gotten so many killed and maimed for a lie, and no, I am not an antiwar person. Just adamantly opposed to what you stand for, for that is lower than Clinton on his worst day.

Sincerely,
Karl W. B. Schwarz
Pres., CEO
Patmos Nanotechnologies, LLC

http://news.phaseiii.org/article3355.html

[Al-CIAda]

105. 911 Freestyle

Spoken word 9/11 prose mp3-

http://atl-imc.org/audio/radio.indymedia/download/911_freestyle_by_mc_immortal_technique_.mp3

[Peace Patriot]

109. Wow, Karl...

...you take my breath away. There are a lot of things in your questions that I'd never even heard of, and I thought I knew a thing or two. (I didn't know about Bridas v. Unocal, for instance.)

Your outrage is inspiring. So many terrible things are being done to our government, and to us, and to others in our name, one can get quite mind-boggled about it all--and find oneself frozen in each moment of time, unable to really see and feel behind or ahead.

The 2000 election, stolen.

May 1, 2001, Chandra Levy disappears--same day, same hours Gary Condit meets with Cheney; two days later, Democrat Condit votes for 1st tax cut for the rich (it squeaks through--his vote critical); USA news obsessed with Condit/Levy all summer, but no one notices or even asks about Cheney meeting with Condit.

Collen Crowley's fruitless pleas; foreign governments' fruitless warnings.
9/11.
Invasion of Afghanistan (many innocents die).
Anthrax.
Patriot Act.
Threat of war against innocent parties (Iraqis).
The '02 election (Paul Wellstone missing from it).
The invasion of Iraq, the looting, the corruption, 100,000+ innocents dead.
Gitmo; Abu Ghraib.
The 2004 election, stolen.

After reading your questions, and this thread, I' m having some overarching thoughts--not quite clear yet--about the election fraud and how we are approaching it, and what we think might happen as the result of pressure on Dem politicians and media.

Think what both--Dem politicians and media--have swallowed already.

I forgot Haiti. I just read an account of the imprisonment of Father Jean-Juste, in Haiti, in a publication called the Catholic Agitator (Catholic Workers in L.A., CA.)

There is too much to remember. The mind fails...

I'm wrapping Christmas presents--and hoping, praying, that somehow we can stop this beast. I think Americans are, indeed, awakening. I am certain that they repudiated Bush Inc. on Nov. 2. But then they keep allowing the illusion to close over them again that everything is all right. Deep down, they know it's not all right--but they abet the re-construction of that bubble of illusion because they can't handle what's happening. They don't know what to do.

I do it, too, in a less total way, by compartmentalizing what I know, and dealing with that which is in front of me, if there is any hope for change in it--as I believe there is in challenging the election.

But we really must keep all of the above--the whole terrible list--in mind all the time. It will at least help us to understand what happens, and to help others who are still be in shock from the above, or who may think that it's as simple as insuring that all the votes are counted, apprising people of the theft of the election, and successfully pressuring media and politicians to do something about it. I, too, think in these simple terms sometimes. It's a defense mechanism.

[LunaC]

106. Here's a concise summary of PNAC MIHOP

See link in sig line below.

[brindis_desala]

110. This is relevant: 9-11 was the consequence of Bush v Gore

Until I discovered DU I have been losing faith in American intelligence. This Vote fraud issue is of TANTAMOUNT importance for reasons that dwarf whether we are to endure another 4years of *.
Lie upon lie has been foisted upon the American public while the world looks on askance, bewildered by our passivity. IMHO this election was stolen and Kerry knows it...what he didn't know until recently was there are those who should be watching his back who have been coerced into selling out our country. But if we do no rest we WILL take it back. The world is counting on it.

[evolvenow]

111. Why was WTC 7 for sale and bought by Silverstein, just months before?

The businesses/orgs very suspicious. Evidence in there? The building had never been for sale, and apparently there were major asbestos problems. In the video "911, the greatest lied ever sold" talks about the idea that the building was pulled. If all of this is true, it would seem that there was previous knowledge, and preparation to coincide. Who knew and how and why?

[wiggs]

115. and....

I continue to be amazed at the coincidence that John O'Neill, a former administration terrorism official with Richard Clarke, had just begun work as security chief at WTC that week! He died of course.

[DrBlix]

112. Who knew and when?

If you just take 25% of the info on this site you will get the picture. Scroll way down for a list of the snakes in the snake pit that are dictating our foreign policy.
.
http://www.nogw.com/warforisrael.html

[mikelewis]

114. If we have all this proof - what do we do about it?

How do we utilize our resources and our research capabilities to actually do something?


It is very clear that we have grounds for a public inquiry. What recourse do we have and what is the manner in which we bring legal action? In fact, I believe there should be a class action suit against the perpetrators of 9/11. By the look of things, we could get a large amount of people to sign on.

Also, what are the current venues for distributing this information? Is there a movement began or is the opposition scattered among internet sites?

What is the current involvement into this investigation from the FBI? Has the case been closed or is there a continuing investigation? What other agencies are responsible for investigating 9/11?

What allies do we have in this? Are the people of other countries aware of this deception and are they assisting us in getting this information out among the people of the world?

What is the best possible solution to this problem?

[TexasChick]

116. Don't quote me on this, but perhaps the best solution to getting to the

truth is that petition that Spitzer accepted in New York for a complete investigation into 9/11. Perhaps he will come through for all of us.

Also, perhaps the RICO lawsuits that have been filed by Phillip Berg against the Chimp administration will finally go somewhere too.

As far as allies, I really don't know. I'm not sure if we have any that has enough clout to help get something done. With these PNAC/neoCONS in the government, investigations will still be thwarted, just like the Chimp has been doing all along, for "national security" reasons. Of course, we all know how these peeps don't really care about national security when they out a CIA operative (Plame) and endanger her life and the people working with her. They had to liquidate her assets and everything. So, I think that excuse about national security is BS.

Unfortunately, I believe the FBI investigation will get nowhere as well, unless they haven't purged the "liberals" from that organization as well and someone is still there to help us. Perhaps this site is a good site to start with. It contains links to other 9/11 truth sites. http://www.911truth.org/ Also, I would join organizations that benefit the widows and their efforts for the truth. I'm really considering that once I get a job, so I can donate money to the cause.

I know the frustration you feel, Mike. I'm constantly fearing these neoCONS will orchastrate another attack on us, trying to blame it on Iran or Syria and the sheeple will still believe that it has to do with Al-Qaeda. It's so frightening. I just wish we knew the truth, that's all. We deserve a government that will protect us, not try to kill us to further their agenda in the Middle East (or wherever else they would pursue their agendas). If we are blaming the wrong people, that would benefit the Chimp administration and would ease our minds, but with their constant excuses, their coverups and lies, I can't help but think this was a coordinated effort to harm us. IMHO.

Looking forward to hearing other DUers thoughts as well.

[rman]

138. there have been public inquiries

http://911busters.com/911-Commission.html
http://911busters.com/
http://www.911citizenswatch.org

To get this to go anywhere we'd need cooperation from a government that is in part complicit.

There are good guys in the FBI, CIA, Government and mainstream media. But those are not the ones pulling the strings.
At the highest level all these entities are in on it.
At least that is what the evidence presented in this thread indicates - spend some time watching the video clips in the links above.

[Carolab]

121. ...

http://www.geocities.com/killer_robot_jetplanes/

[roenyc]

124. our best bet is 911truth.org

and spitzer. because far out claims without solid proof will be harder to prove and put a tin hat on people. i am not saying they are not necessarily true, but there is re-open911.org and he is into the pentagon plan is missing thing. when he goes on TV he cant explain what if anything happened to the plain.

but if you start with the basic questions that were in the original 911 commission hearings and the additional one that the omission commission wants of 911 truth wants answered you get to the truth and that leads to rest of the story hopefully.

i firmly believe that this was allowed to happen. if you just look at the reactions by NORAD. i think cheney and rummy may have known before hand. and his majesty may have been told to sit tight maybe today maybe not. he knew before he entered the school though.

people are just expendable to them. for the good of the economy and the world ya know.

next week i will write to spitzer. time for personal letters - no more petitions.

[Name removed]

130. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Abe Linkman]

136. One of your fellow Fairy Tale supporters believes in pods. S/he...

talks about it anytime someone posts about the unidentified object seen exiting the WTC horizontally.

[WoodrowFan]

127. thanks for the thread

now I know which DUers are so far into LALA land that I can discount their opinions on pretty much everything. Chemtrails, secret societies, the Jews, the CIA, etc. etc. YO! people with brains, The 9-11 report got it pretty much right! Bush and Company are too f****** incompetent to pull this off.



bye bye

[Abe Linkman]

137. From the very day of the self-attacks, some of us have known that...

Disinfo Agents would try and explain the absurdity of the Official 9/11 Fairy Tale the same way the CIA always does: incompetence, negligence, snafus, and reliance on a totally corrupted corporate media (plus a few
peculiar people who have been assigned to "work" the DU forums. of course, most DUers are too smart to believe in Fairy Tales and fruit-loop defenses of the biggest lie told to the American people since the Gulf of Tonkin lie).

[tngledwebb]

139. People with brains, happily

will get the drift reading the posts on this thread.