544 camp st. (Guy Banister's office address) in google maps (satellite pic)

[ohiodemocratic]

I was just screwing around in google maps, trying to view modern pics of important addresses, when I decided to type "544 camp st." in New Orleans. This is the famous address printed in the bills Oswald was giving out while pretending to be a communist. It was revealed in the movie JFK that Guy Banister (FBI detective) had an office here.

[greyl]

1. In reality, however,

In reality, however, 544 Camp Street was not Guy Banister's address, and when Garrison stated that the 544 Camp and 531 Lafayette addresses led to the same location, he was dead wrong.

http://www.jfk-online.com/jfk100camp.html

[ohiodemocratic]

2. Good point. Wasn't 544 the address of the Cuban Revolutionary Council though?

Which at the time had left the building and which was a CIA front?

It's possible that if the bills were printed while the CRC occupied the office at 544. then that explains why 544 Camp was stamp in the bills.

Perhaps as part of an operation to weed out communists in the area?

From the House Select Committee:

There was only one
office at the Lafayette Street address, that of Guy
Banister Associates, a private investigative firm. The
offices once rented by the Cuban Revolutionary Council at
544 Camp Street still lay empty.

http://mcadams.posc.mu.edu/544camp.txt

[MinM]

3. Reitzes even tries to dispute Oswald’s ties to Guy Banister and 544 Camp Street

544 Camp was the side entrance to 531 Lafayette...


http://www.ctka.net/pr1199-rebut.html

Reitzes even tries to dispute Oswald’s ties to Guy Banister and 544 Camp Street. He is apparently so confused at this point that he doesn’t realize he’s refuting his own lengthy treatise supporting Oswald and 544 Camp (See Reitzes, Oswald and 544 Camp, Parts 1 and 2, alt.conspiracy.jfk newsgroup posting of November 3, 1998). Reitzes’ main source for his dissertation is Michael Kurtz. The reader may recall that Kurtz authored a book called Crime of the Century in which he cites numerous unnamed witnesses who placed Oswald with Ferrie and/or Banister in 1963. He even promotes his own "Castro did it" theory – a hypothesis long since discredited. Kurtz even claims he saw Oswald with Banister. Yet Reitzes accepts Kurtz’ views uncritically (Apparently, aligning himself with discredited critics is Reitzes modus operandi. He’s also fond of quoting A.J. Weberman, the former "journalist" who used to scour peoples’ garbage cans for material. In the 1970’s, he co-wrote a book called Coup d’etat In America in which he claims Frank Sturgis and E. Howard Hunt were two of the three "tramps" arrested in Dealey Plaza. Dallas Police records have since disproved that bizarre theory. In addition to "Castro did it" Kurtz and the garbage-sniffing Weberman, Reitzes has now found an advocate in Walt Brown, who recently published a Reitzes piece in his journal. Can anyone say, "Mac Wallace?")

Lou Ivon’s recollection of Ferrie’s breakdown gets pooh-poohed by Reitzes, despite the fact that Ivon confirmed this personally in my interview with him. Tell us Mr. Reitzes, how many times have you interviewed Ivon?

He also claims I say Vernon Bundy was a credible witness. I didn’t say it. William Gurvich and John Volz did! Neither of whom were fans of Garrison’s. Volz confirmed his take on Bundy in an interview with me. Tell us Mr. Reitzes, how many times have you interviewed John Volz?

At least Reitzes does provide some comic relief. He rebukes me for claiming "that the major media engaged in a conspiracy to discredit Garrison and interfere with his investigation despite the abundance of evidence to the contrary." And what is the sum total of Reitzes’ "abundance of evidence?" It is as follows: "Lambert’s discussions of James Phelan and Richard Billings." Whew! I’m overwhelmed with that "abundance of evidence."

Reitzes’ credibility goes even further over the edge when he claims I "attempt to rehabilitate nutball witness Charles Spiesel (Davy 173-4)." In fact, I do no such thing. On the very pages Reitzes cites I list all of Spiesel’s wild, paranoid claims. I criticize his story as being too pat and describe his testimony as "lunatic." Is this Reitzes’ idea of rehabilitation? It was Judge Haggerty himself who thought Spiesel may have been dismissed too easily and I note that in the book.

Reitzes then writes "Davy also presents a dubious new theory of his own when he attempts to link the mental hospital in Jackson, where Oswald allegedly was seeking a job, to the CIA’s infamous MK/ULTRA mind control experiments." No, this was recalled to us by Dr. Alfred Butterworth, one of the East Louisiana State Hospital’s physicians and corroborated by other hospital employees. Tell us Mr. Reitzes, how many of the Jackson hospital employees did you interview?...

Paul Nolan aka John McAdams and Dave Reitzes make quite the 3some err pair ;o)

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/?az=archives&j=4168&page=8


Guy Bannister

[greyl]

4. Was 544 Camp St. Guy Banister's office address?

Could you get to 544 Camp St. by entering through 531 Lafayette?

[defendandprotect]

7. They were connected . . . you ended up in the same place --

And, of course, Bannister's secretary reports the frequent presence

of Oswald and Ferrie in Bannister's office --

[greyl]

8. Vladivostok and Moscow are connected.

Please define what you mean by "the same place", then tell me if one could get to 544 Camp St. by entering through 531 Lafayette without using a fucking sledgehammer or climbing out the window.

[defendandprotect]

14. Answer is YES . . . either address -- same building --

and just why are you so aggressive on the subject?

And I don't mean that in a positive way!

[angelicwoman]

16. Banister's secretary said he was angry that Oswald had stamped the 544 address on the bill

Why would he be angry over something that's allegedly not related to his address?

"Delphine Roberts, Banister's long-time friend and secretary,
stated to the committee that Banister had become extremely angry
with James Arthus and Sam Newman over Oswald's use of the 544
Camp Street address on his handbills.

HSCA: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=107541&relPageId=2

[defendandprotect]

21. True -- good point --

:)

[tetedur]

5. The building was on the corner of Lafayette and Camp.

It was torn down some years ago to make way for the Federal Building's parking lot.

Did you happen to look across the street in the park and see the "eyes?"

[defendandprotect]

6. That's not what it looked like at the time, however -- been redone . . .

See Oliver Stone's JFK

[SDuderstadt]

9. Why is someone citing a movie as...

a source for a "fact"??

[greyl]

10. Yeah. Music and moving pictures can short circuit critical thinking.

When I first saw the movie, I totally believed it. I remember seeing Oliver Stone on Late Night with Bob Costas(used to come on after Letterman, I think) and getting pissed off at Bob who I thought was a great interviewer because he was calling Stone on some of the bullshit. Stone literally admitted that the movie contained falsehoods and took dramatic liberties with the truth, but that it was fairplay because the public had been steeped in one version of the assassination explanation for 30 years. It would be another decade till I learned just how much of the CT story was total bullshit built on misconceptions and faulty facts. I still watch the movie JFK a couple times a year and love Oliver Stone, though. It's a great movie, but definitely not a reliable source of historical information.

edit: It was "Later with Bob Costas", not "Late Night with", and it aired in 1992 according to this: http://community.seattletimes.nwsource.com/archive/?date=19920203&slug=1473763
I'd love to get a transcript or video of that 2-part interview.

[Chonga Wonga]

11. Well...

They definitely were the same building. I don't think Shaw's lawyers even argued that they weren't.

Although the film filled in some blanks, a lot of it has been vindicated by declassified info.

The girl at the beginning did exist. Too bad no one listened to her.

Clay Shaw WAS Clay Bertrand and he WAS CIA

The CIA did a lot of things to discredit Garrison, including getting governors to refuse to extradite witness.

The film actually shows less infiltration then there actually was, as far as Garrison's staff is concerned.

Garrison had it right, a CIA run coup with assistance of the mob and the military.


JFK's death was a successful version of the Business Plot of 1934:

(From Wiki)
Smedly Butler was involved in controversy in 1934 when he told a congressional committee that a group of wealthy industrialists had approached him to lead a military coup to overthrow Franklin D. Roosevelt's government, allegations that came to be known as the Business Plot.

[greyl]

12. Well...I never tried to imply the film is total bullshit.

Have you listened to Stone's commentary on the JFK-Special Edition DVD?

edit: Welcome to DU!

[SDuderstadt]

13. Can you provide documentation of any of your claims? n/t

[angelicwoman]

17. Here's documentation: HSCA said the Newman bldg. had two entrances (544 Camp and 531 Lafayette)

"The committee learned that the Newman Building occupied
the corner lot facing Lafayette Square . On one side its address was
544 Camp Street . Its other entrance was addressed 531 Lafayette
Street. (23) It was a three-story granite structure owned and operated
by Sam Newman as a rental income property for commercial
offices."

There you have it. Both addresses belong to one building: The Newman building.
http://www.aarclibrary.org/publib/jfk/hsca/reportvols/vol10/pdf/HSCA_Vol10_AC_13_544Camp.pdf

[greyl]

18. Irrelevant. Describe the shortest walk from 544 Camp to 531 Lafayette. nt

[angelicwoman]

19. That's irrelevant. Now, why do you think Banister was mad that Oswald had stamped 544 Camp?

According to his secretary, as I stated previously?

Why would person X be mad about person Y using an address that has (allegedly) nothing to do with X?

[greyl]

20. No, it goes to the very subject of the misleading OP, in fact.

Was it a relevant issue when the OP posted a falsehood about the topic?

Please try to stick to one subthread at a time. Besides, the answer you're looking for is in the first link I posted in this thread.

[tetedur]

23. The importance of 544 Camp & 531 Lafayette and those who separate them

From Jim DiEugenio's Bugliosi Review Part 5
http://www.ctka.net/2008/bugliosi_5_review.html

"Like Gerald Posner, Bugliosi is intent on keeping Oswald out of Guy Banister's office at 544 Camp Street. (p. 1404) And he uses Gus Russo to do it. Specifically, he uses information from the bizarre 1993 PBS Frontline Special on Oswald—which Russo originated and worked on. Namely, that contrary to what everyone has ever written or said, the addresses 544 Camp Street and 531 Lafayette Street did not lead to the same offices. That is Guy Banister's. Bugliosi writes that the Camp Street entrance only went to the second floor. You had to go into the other address to get to Banister's office. (ibid)

Really? Then how did Bill Turner do just that back in 1967 while on assignment for Ramparts magazine? Years ago, Turner told me firsthand about his experience of entering both addresses and walking up the stairs to the same small coven of offices. ... Jim Garrison made the very same discovery, which he describes in his book On the Trail of the Assassins. (p. 24) He writes the following: "So both entrances—544 Camp and 531 Lafayette—led to the same place." Further, Turner told me that he and Garrison discussed this exact point when they met. Did both investigators have the wrong address? ...If what Gus Russo and Bugliosi are peddling were true, wouldn't one of these anti-Garrison reporters have easily found out about it and written about it back in 1967?...

Finally, the HSCA did an investigation of 544 Camp Street. None of the witnesses they interviewed told them this. (See HSCA Vol. 10, Appendix 13.) They also investigated other businesses at the address. No other office at 544 Camp Street could be associated with Oswald or recalled him being there. Now the HSCA interviewed an interesting witness in this regard: Sam Newman. ...Sam owned and operated it. The HSCA interviewed Newman about the people who occupied his building back in 1963. (op. cit. p.124, paragraphs 471 and 472.) If anyone would have known the layout of the building it would be the man who owned it. Yet he didn't say anything like this to the HSCA since it's not in the report. ...

Here comes the other problem with this piece of Russo-inspired propaganda. As I said, no other office at 544 Camp Street recalled the presence of Oswald or had him on their roster of members. ... Yet there are a number of witnesses that can attest to a relationship between Oswald and Banister. Let us enumerate some of them. ...

Banister's widow revealed that her husband's office storeroom contained a supply of the "Hands off Cuba" handbills,.... (William Turner and Warren Hinckle, Deadly Secrets, p. 234) Banister investigator Bill Nitschke ...commented: "It didn't make any sense to me how Guy got tied up to those signs." (Davy p. 40) A college infiltrator of Banister's, George Higgenbothan, kidded his boss about sharing a building with the type of people who leaflet leftist literature on the streets. Banister snapped back with "Cool it. One of them is mine!" (Turner and Hinckle, p. 235) In his book The Assassination Debates, Professor Michael Kurtz ...saw Banister with Oswald at a civil rights debate at a local college in New Orleans. Another employee of Banister, the aforementioned Tommy Baumler, made clear in a 1981 interview that Oswald worked for Banister. (Davy, p. 303)

When I interviewed Dan Campbell in 1994, he reinforced the above. Campbell, ... was another youth recruited by Banister as an infiltrator. ... He recalled one day that a young man with short hair and the bearing of a Marine walked into 544 Camp Street and used the phone. The next time he saw this young man his face was on TV as the alleged murderer of President Kennedy. (Author's interview with Campbell, 9/6/94) CIA asset William Gaudet once told Tony Summers ..."I did see Oswald discussing various things with Banister at the time, and I think Banister knew a whole lot of what was going on ... ." (Summers, pgs 337-338)

Summers also talked to Delphine Roberts. ... Garrison's office talked to her previously, but could get very little out of her. This is because, as Summers found out, Banister had sworn her to secrecy about Oswald. (ibid p. 294) ...

What did she actually tell Summers? She told him about Oswald coming into Banister's office one day and he and Banister going behind closed doors and talking. Later, Oswald actually had his own room on the second floor. This was stocked with pro-Castro leaflets and placards. (Which corroborates the above testimony of Banister's widow and Bill Nitschke.) One day, Roberts walked into the office and said that she saw Oswald on the street passing out those leaflets. Banister confirmed to her, "He's with us. He's associated with this office." (ibid p. 295) ... This exchange between Banister and Roberts about Oswald was confirmed by Dan's brother, Allen Campbell, who specifically recalled it. (Davy, p. 40) Roberts' daughter and a photographer friend also corroborated her story. (Davy, p. 39) Another secretary at 544 Camp Street, Mary Brengel, also corroborated her story. Brengel said that on the day of the assassination, Roberts told her that Oswald has been in their office that summer. ... If you are counting, that is six points of corroboration for the "discredited" Roberts.

The last witness who puts Oswald at Banister's is Oswald himself. How? On August 9th ...He was distributing his pro-Castro literature ... He got into a physical altercation with some anti-Castro Cubans ...He was subsequently arrested. ... he told the police to get him in contact with FBI agent Warren DeBrueys, the Spanish-speaking agent specializing in the Cuban exiles. (Mellen pgs. 59-60) DeBrueys was not in. But before agent John Quigley left to see Oswald, he asked William Walter to look for a file on him. The Oswald file listed him as an informant for DeBrueys. (Davy, p. 287) On one of the pamphlets Oswald presented to Quigley and the police he himself had hand stamped the address 544 Camp Street. This was on Corliss Lamont's pamphlet The Crime Against Cuba. (See WC Vol. 17, pgs 758-762) But further, the evidence suggests that Banister got this pamphlet from the CIA and then gave it to Oswald as a prop. (Destiny Betrayed, pgs 218-19) Oswald, who had arrived in New Orleans less than four months previous, had to have stamped it. Because Banister would have never done such a thing.

In the face of all of the above, it is just silliness to keep Oswald away from Banister. Today it is an accepted fact. Yet, unbelievably, Bugliosi actually criticizes Oliver Stone for putting Oswald at Banister's.. (p. 1404) Probably because he wants to distract the reader from an obvious conclusion. After Oswald left the CAP, he then fulfilled what Ferrie likely inspired him to be: a military intelligence operative. Eventually he became part of the fake defector program operated jointly by ONI and the CIA. (See Part Two of this review, section six.) Then when he was called back to the USA, he continued his Ferrie inspired intelligence career. This time as an agent provocateur on the Cuban exile front working for Ferrie's pal, Guy Banister. It all makes perfect sense. Too sensible and too convincing for Reclaiming History."

[angelicwoman]

24. You call the OP misleading, but OP says the exact same thing the House Committee said

The OP says that Guy Banister "had an office there" referring to 544 Camp St.

Now take a look at how the statement above is consistent to what the House Committee on Assassinations said:



Do you have any problem with that statement? Although the official address was the Lafayette one, the HSCA is not so anal as you are in differentiating 531 Lafayette and 544 Camp. HSCA treats them as the same, as you can see. You are clinging to an irrelevant technicality.

link here: http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1212&relPageId=136

Here's another instance in which HSCA had no problem identifying Banister's office as being located in 544 Camp st.:


http://www.maryferrell.org/mffweb/archive/viewer/showDoc.do?docId=1212&relPageId=115

[defendandprotect]

22. Thank you --

And I think that there is film -- probably a documentary with Jim Garrison --

where he revisits the area pointing out the proximity of all of the intelligence

services, government buildings -- and Naval Intelligence - ONI.

If I recall correctly, you also see the interior, the lobby of the building.

There is a scene just like that with Kevin Costner in JFK and I think they pretty

much copied the original documentary.

Within that documentary you can see the entrances and I think they do a walk thru.

If I recall correctly both entrances were open -- like a portico. Unusual here

in NE, I'd say -- but we had many buidlings with two entrances in NYC.

You could quickly go from one end of the building to the other thru the lobby and

in or out -- very short distance. 200 feet maybe in the building I worked in.





How long have you been interested in JFK subject?

[Happy Friend]

25. Interesting

I am curious how you might this reconcile this evidence with your previous statements.

The Mary Ferrel site is very good. Even John McAdams (aka Secret Agent Paul Nolan) praises the site.

[defendandprotect]

15. Nice summation . . .

agree completely --

and while we often talk about the coup on JFK, I think it has to be made clear

that they also took our people's government and the Democratic Party at the same time!

They weren't about to leave anything standing to reverse the plot and their gains!

That's the part we too rarely talk about--!!

Love Brig. Gen. Smedley Darlington Butler -- and his "War Is A Racket!"