Fire Fighters for 9/11 Truth on TVNL Radio tonite

[veracity]

http://tvnewslies.org/tvnl/index.php/radio-show/58-broadcasts/13227-firefighters-for-911-truth.html

Fire Fighters for 9/11 Truth on TVNL Radio tonite

Live Broadcast: Wednesday, March 3rd, 2010. 8:00 PM ET.

A common sense test: You’re dispatched to a house fire in a 2 story with a basement. Upon arrival, all 3 floors are well involved. After the fire has been extinguished, the neighbor across the street tells you he saw flashes on all 3 floors within seconds of each other. It turns out the owner has arson convictions on his record. You smell gasoline. Now, should you test the debris for accelerants? No matter what the owner and his friends tell you, wouldn’t you still test it? It’s a “NO-Brainer”…isn’t it?

Let's hear what some firefighters have to say about the events of that horrible day. Join our guest, Erik Lawyer from Firefighters for 9/11 Truth (http://firefightersfor911truth.org/), to hear what a growing number of firefighters have to say about what happened to the WTC.

Listen in. Call in. IM in.

[Ohio Joe]

1. How many of those fire fighters are first responders? - nt

[BeFree]

2. Tune in, Joe

And turn on. And if you find an answer to your question, get back to us, K?

[Ohio Joe]

4. The answer is none

Why do none of the firemen that were there buy any of this?

[BeFree]

5. Well, Joe

Were you a first responder? Then why do you buy any of it?

[Ohio Joe]

6. I don't buy any of the tinfoil bullshit

But of course, you are just playing you word twisting games again. Your games won't anger me, you can keep trying but it won't work, sorry. I do like when you play your games though, it shows a lot about truthers.

[BeFree]

8. Sorry, Joe

My mistake was in thinking you were originally asking an honest question:
"How many of those fire fighters are first responders? - nt"
It was just bait. My mistake. Think I'd a learned by now, eh?

[SDuderstadt]

10. Joe asked a perfectly valid question....

How many of the members of "Firefighters for 9/11 truth" were first responders on 9/11? You would think when the FDNY lost in excess of 330 members that awful day, the survivors would not only join the "group", they would have formed one well earlier than going on nine years later.

Duh.

[Ohio Joe]

11. It is an honest question

But you decided to answer it by playing games. Why are you not interested in either the question or the answer? Does it not interest you that none of the firemen that were there do not believe it was a CD?

[BeFree]

12. Really?

"none of the firemen that were there do not believe it was a CD"

You have proof of that?
______________

As to the previous... are you trying to say that if one wasn't a first responder, they can't have an opinion or make up their own minds from the available evidence? That if they weren't there they should STFU?

[SDuderstadt]

14. Dude....

simple question: How many members of FF4911T were actually there on 9/11?

[BeFree]

16. It doesn't matter

You weren't there, so by Joe's logic you don't have ground to stand on.
Joe nailed you too, you do realize?

[Ohio Joe]

19. You can keep trying to put words in my mouth but it does not work

Your games fool no one, sorry.

[Ohio Joe]

18. More games? Do you never stop with them?

The old prove a negative trick? Come on, can't you do better then that... well, maybe not. Show me one who is, where are they listed on that website? Which truther group is trotting out a fireman that was there as a member?

"As to the previous... are you trying to say that if one wasn't a first responder, they can't have an opinion or make up their own minds from the available evidence? That if they weren't there they should STFU?"

Ahhh, the games never end, good times :D Not anything I ever said nor implied. Truthers feel free to cherry pick quotes from the first responders but don't seem to be able to find one to make any claim of CD.

Are you going to keep avoiding my question, why does it not bother you that none of the firemen that there don't believe CD? Are they all in on it? Did they help murder their friends and co-workers? What are your thoughts BeFree? Come on, stop dancing around the issue for a change and give an answer. Why are you afraid of this fact?

[BeFree]

22. Bullshit

This: "Are they all in on it? Did they help murder their friends and co-workers? What are your thoughts BeFree?"

How fucking dare you imply that Busllshit. How fucking dare you.

I asked you a fucking question and you even quoted it and then cried I was implying something. And them what do you do? turn around and do what you falsely accused me of.

Fucking bullshit, Joe.

[Ohio Joe]

23. Then answer the question

Why?

[BeFree]

24. Why?

Why do you stoop so low and be so hypocritical?
I don't have a fucking clue why you do.
Why don't you be honest and tell us why?

[Ohio Joe]

28. Still avoiding the question... heh, why am I not surprised

This is one of the things that really cracks me up about so many truthers, they love to ask questions... But when a question arises that the answer to might put their theory into a bad light... complete avoidance.

oh... Do you see now why I keep asking you to stop your games, your insinuations? Why don't you be honest and answer the question and stop your games.

[SDuderstadt]

26. Dude...

you are clearly implying that they are in on it. Jesus.

[BeFree]

27. You too?

FUCK THAT BULLSHIT.

I imply and always have that bushco was in on it and that the people on the ground had nothing to do with any of it. Except that FEMA and NIST due to their lack of examination might have been in on covering it up.

But here you are with your FUCKING BULLSHIT.

[SDuderstadt]

29. Dude...

the clear implication is these people could expose it but they don't. You can deny your backhanded accusations all you want but they are plain to see. That's why your "9/11 was an inside job" bullshit is so offensive.

Again, why is FDNY so underrepresented in FF4911T? Wouldn't you think those that suffered the biggest loss would line up to join?

[jberryhill]

41. It's another incarnation of the wearechange folks /nt

[SDuderstadt]

3. Unclear on the concept...

From the "Firefighters for 9/11 Truth" website:

We are asked to believe that jet fuel (kerosene) can melt steel.

Really? What part of the "Official Story" claims the structural steel melted? Oh, wait...that's a "truther" strawman. Duh.

[BeFree]

7. Videos of, and pools of

Molten steel (metals) flowing out of the buildings and in the basement.
Of course the OCT doesn't say melted steel, but there was melted metal, possibly steels.

Of course, firemen know that common fires do not melt steel. Or many metals, but since there was melted metals, then their question is rather obvious, no matter how one might try to reframe it.

[SDuderstadt]

9. Dude...

Many metals melt at far lower temperatures than steel. I noticed you morphed your description to "possibly steels (sic)". So, what was it? The answer is neither you nor anyone else knows precisely what it was. And we know that someone cannot positively ID it merely by looking at it.

Dude, you just helped destroy your own claim. Did you notice that?

[BeFree]

13. Precisely what it was...

Why didn't the NIST find out what precisely it was?
The NIST could have and should have. Why didn't it find out?

"The answer is neither you nor anyone else knows precisely what it was"

[SDuderstadt]

15. Dude...

Check a calendar. Look at when NIST was charged with the investigation. Duh.

[BeFree]

17. Almost a year

FEMA was there. Are they idiots for not using science?

Why anyone would want to make excuses for the lack of a proper investigation escapes me.

[SDuderstadt]

20. Dude...

your question was why NIST did not test the "molten steel"? I answered your question. Beyond that, how do you know FEMA didn't see the same "pools" and figured it was comprised of something other than steel. The simple fact is that the steel did not need to melt to cause the collapse.

This is getting tiring, dude.

[BeFree]

21. That's right

Even the molten metal was carted off before a proper examination could be made.

Why didn't anyone properly examine the situation?
Oh wait, that's what the Firefighters want to know. Tune in tonight.

[SDuderstadt]

25. How, precisely, would one....

"cart off molten metal", dude? With potholders?

More to the point, I'll answer the question you can't or won't. Here's the list of firefighters that are signatories to FF4911T's petition. Notice what's missing?

Adam James, Kansas City, MO Fire Dept. Local 42
Alan Hunt, KCMO Fire Dept. Local 42
Amber L. Blusiewicz, FWFC 0-3 Years
Andrew Jensen USMC aircraft firefighter
Andrew MacDougal, Essex Fire Dept. Essex, Ny 0-3 Years
Anton Vodvarka New York City Fire Dept. (Retired) 15+ Years
Bill Gordon, Lauderhill Fire -Rescue (S. Fla.) 8-15 Years
Brent Jolly Poulsbo Fire Department
Brian Hayes, retired firefighter
Chris Kaihatsu, "(Chicago, IL)"
Christopher Paddon Lewis and Clark RFPD N/A
Clinton Vanhook,
Colette McLennan, Seattle Engine 17 Lieutenant N/A
Craig Morrell local 3224
Craig Pruitt Garland Fire Department, TX 3-8 Years
Dan Fiorito, USFS retired
Daniel Allen, Firefighter chicago 15+ Years
Darnell T. Factory Seattle
Darrell Valance, North Centerville, New Jersey 8-15 Years
David Giles, SVFD, NRFR
David Short, Willow Creek VFD 15+ Years
Donald A. Needom, New Orleans Fire Dept. 15+ Years
Earl Emerson, Ladder 3, Seattle Fire Department, Lieutenant
Erik Lawyer, 3 Truck in the City of Seattle
Frank Dunnington Capt. P23 Kansas City, MO Fire Dept.
Gary R. Strand Seattle (retired)
Gary T. Bastarache Moncton Local 999 IAFF
George Guerci, L.35
Gerald Tucker, Cityof Newport R.I.
Gordon M. Wiggin III Firefighter/Paramedic Pembroke Pines, FL
Greg Bacon, Fire Lit. (Ret)
Greg R Hipenbecker, Retired-Wauwatosa Wi pump operator
Jack Heginbotham, RN Emergency Room
James A. Guenther
James Mikecz, milwaukee fire dept 15+ Years
Jeremy Ingham, Los Angeles Fire Department 8-15 Years
Jeremy Romig Portland, OR Local 43 3-8 Years
xxxxxxxx Seattle F.D.
Jim Lundberg,
Jim Stark Great Barrington, Mass. 15+ Years
Joe Allegra, Crash Fire Rescue, MCAS Miramar, San Diego CA.
John Guthrie N/A
John Keenan FDNY retired N/A
John Tyler Birch, Gat City Vol. Fire Dept, gate city VA. FF#345
Jon Gillis Seattle Battalion Chief N/A
Joseph O'Malley, Seattle Fire Dept. Engine 9
Julie Santucci Wildland firefighter 0-3 Years
Kevin Miller Lewis and Clark RFPD N/A
xxxxxxxx FDNY ret. Lt. 15+ Years
Laila Selk, retired, 1996, Palo Alto FD, CA
Lance Fisher, SFD
Lawrence Stice, CMFD 15+ Years
Leisyka Parrott BLM, Surprise Fire Station, Cedarville, CA
Lt. Frank Rand, Cicero,IL 15+ Years
Mark Gray, Battalion Chief Hurst Fire Department, Fort Worth, TX N/A
"20 year member of the John Birch Society"
xxxxxxxx papineua fire protection dist 0-3 Years
Michael James Sulak Seattle Fire Department 8-15 Years
Michael Melson milton, GA fire-rescue
Mike Butler, city of milton,ga. 15+ Years
Mike Phenow, Osseo Fire Department, MN 3-8 Years
Nick Ponce Seattle, WA N/A
Pamela Blair, Vershire Volunteer Fire Department, Vershire, Vermont 3-8 Years
Paul Kyle, Lt. SJFD Local 771 15+ Years
Preston Bhang Seattle, WA - Captain N/A
Ray Kielhamer, 12 Engine, Redwood City, Caray
Raymond S. Simon Seattle Fire Department
Regina, sfd 15+ Years
Robert Blameuser, Skokie, IL
Robert E Palmer, Retired Capt K C F D
Scott Troogstad Chicago N/A
Shawn Valance, Holmdel Fire and Rescue, New Jersey 3-8 Years
Spencer Nelson Seattle N/A
Stephen Badhwar, Atlin Volunteer Fire Department, British Columbia, Canada
Steve Morse, MTFR 8-15 Years
Steve Mott, Edwards AFB 3-8 Years
Steve White Novato Fire District, Novato Ca. Marin Local 1775 15+ Years
Theresa Paccagnan Seattle Fire Dept. 15+ Years
Tim Romanski Erie Fire Dept., Erie, PA 3-8 Years
Timothy Finnegan, Retired from Weehawken, N.J.
Tom Wheland, Helena F.D. 15+ Years
"The given explanations of this tragic day anger me beyond belief, do they think we don't know any better?!"
Williton Parker, seattle fire 15+ Years
81 firefighter signatories displayed

Simple question, dude? Where are all the signatories from FDNY, especially those that were actually THERE that day and lost 330+ of their colleagues? Why is Seattle overrepresented? Did you notice the founder of FF911T isn't from FDNY, either? Does something strike you as strange why they cannot recruit firefighters who should have most naturally wanted to be members?

P.S. My favorite is the guy who brags that he is a twenty year member of the John Birch Society.

[SDuderstadt]

31. Could you provide any video of...

molten steel flowing in the basement?

Take your time.

[BeFree]

53. To be clear

the quote is:

"Videos of, and pools of

Molten steel (metals) flowing out of the buildings and in the basement."

Which means there are videos of molten metals flowing from the buildings at the fire zone and there were pools of molten metal in the basement. "Videos of, and pools of ..... molten steel."

It wasn't very clear, granted, and mistaking that to mean I said videos of molten metals in the basement..? I could see how someone could do that.

However, we have a picture of a machine bucket dripping molten metal, and eyewitness accounts of the pools (or was it just pool?) in the basement.

No one ever claimed that there was "molten steel flowing in the basement" the accounts are that there was a pool of molten metal of some sort found there. And there is a picture of it being picked up.

Really, we all agree that there was molten metal in the basement. And the firefighters are curious as to how it got there. Good question, eh?

[SDuderstadt]

54. And a good answer would be molten aluminum...

and how it got there would be gravity. Duh.

I think this puts the claim of pools of molten steel to rest, don't you?

[BeFree]

55. Good answer?

One of many possibly good answers.

The question is: is there now anyway a final and conclusive answer could be obtained?

[SDuderstadt]

56. Name the other...

"good answers", dude.

I said previously that it's clear we can rule out "molten steel". If you think we can't, then make your case. My prediction is that you'll flail around in an effort to keep it alive because, without it, a large piece of the "9/11 was an inside job" bullshit falls apart.

BTW, did you ever come up with a good explanation for how "Bushco" is so all powerful, yet HW couldn't hold onto power in '92? What kind of all powerful force couldn't manage to rig a simple close election? Or, were you a fulltime "Bushco hounder" already by '92 and that's why "Bushco" lost, dude?

[BeFree]

57. Well

It is surprising that my proclivity to hound bushco till it's dieing day is made light of, as if it were somehow wrong.

As for the rest of those, uhm, demands, I have finally learned not to get on that un-merry go-round with anyone prone to making light of my proclivity.

[SDuderstadt]

58. Dude...

no one is making light of your proclivity...people are making light of your effectiveness. Who would take someone who thinks "dying" is spelled "dieing" all that seriously?

BTW, you still haven't answered the question of how "Bushco" could be so all powerful, yet HW couldn't manage to rig a close election in '92. More importantly, what are you doing to "hound Bushco" in some venue more apropos than DU? Do you really believe there's some nest of diehard Bush holdouts here? That's why I chuckle everytime you try to smear anyone who doesn't buy your goofy bullshit as some sort of sub rosa Bush acolyte, dude.

[SDuderstadt]

30. Well. so much for tonight's broadcast....

"technical difficulties"

[zappaman]

32. Be Free

Don't let the naysayers get to you.
Keep digging, you and Spooked will crack this soon...I can feel it in my bones.

[SDuderstadt]

33. You crack me up....

Z-man. I'm certain that both BeFree and Spooked think they've been entrusted with a very important mission.

[BeFree]

34. Thank you zappaman

I won't crack this, others will. I'm just an interested observer.
However, if I can just make it so that no one ever defends bushco for its deceit and its lawlessness, I will be happy.

[Ohio Joe]

35. Straight back to the insinuations again?

tsk tsk tsk

[BeFree]

36. Jeb Bush

Will be running for another office. No more bushco is my hope and dream for this country.

[Ohio Joe]

38. and I would completely agree with that sentiment however...

It is has nothing to do with your insinuation that anyone that does not buy the tinfoil is a bush supporter. heh, do you ever face your words head on?

[BeFree]

39. Joe

Why are you hounding me? Haven't got any WWWrestling shows on tonight?

[Ohio Joe]

40. Hounding you?

twisty twisty twisty you are, heh. I seem to recall it was you that started replying to me in this thread. I just tried to get you to give me a straight answer, which you have so far declined to do. Later in the thread you decided to insinuate that all tinfoil deniers were bush supporters (yet again) and I did not feel like letting it pass. This is not hounding, it is asking you to back up your bullshit... which you never seem to be able to do.

Really, if I was hounding you I would have jumped into the GD thread where you were defending private corporations taking over education.

No wrestling tonight, I think there is some on tomorrow though. Unfortunately, my laptop is right on the coffee table where I sit and watch the TV and being the amazingly talented guy I am, I can do more then one thing at a time. That was a good try to make me get embarrassed by my entertainment choices though. You should keep in mind though that they do not embarrass me and I don't back away from them. Check out the gaming forum, you can try and embarrass me next by talking about my gaming habits. Good luck with that!

Now, if your done with your games, care to address how your still making bullshit insinuations about those who not buy your tinfoil being bush supporters?

[BeFree]

45. Questions?

""Are you going to keep avoiding my question, why does it not bother you that none of the firemen that there don't believe CD? Are they all in on it? Did they help murder their friends and co-workers? What are your thoughts BeFree? Come on, stop dancing around the issue for a change and give an answer. Why are you afraid of this fact?

Now, if your done with your games, care to address how your still making bullshit insinuations about those who not buy your tinfoil being bush supporters?""

Seems there are many questions you want answers to. And reading over these here, I find it hard to understand what you want from me.

What I want are answers to the 9/11 situation. And you just want answers from me? I hound bushco, and you hound me. Surely, by now, you can see why I don't trust you?

[Ohio Joe]

47. Hound you?

Non-sense and you know it. You make claims, you insinuate other DU'ers and bushco shills and back up none of your bullshit. You do not hound bushco, you cover up for them with your fantastic stories to cover real issues. I have no interest in your trust, I only have an interest in showing your bullshit for what it is... but you do that better then I ever could by your evasion. Why are you afraid to answer the questions?

[BeFree]

48. See, that's the difference

"I only have an interest in showing your bullshit for what it is."

I hound bushco and you hound me.

[SDuderstadt]

49. Yeah...

I'm certain "Bushco" trembles everytime they see one of your devastating posts here, dude.

Simple question: if "Bushco" is as powerful as you claim, how did HW lose to Clinton in '92? Do you really expect us to believe they're all powerful, but couldn't rig a close elecion?

[BeFree]

50. Damn, two hounders

What is more important? Bushco or Befree?
It seems you hate me worse than bushco?

[SDuderstadt]

51. No one is "hounding" you, dude....

and your stupid either-or argument isn't working either.

So, I repeat my question. Do you really expect us to believe "Bushco" is all-powerful, but couldn't rig a close election?

[Name removed]

52. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SDuderstadt]

37. Dude...

Zappaman is MOCKING you and Spooked. As usual, it went straight over your head.

Also, could you please point to anyone here who is defending "Bushco's" deceit and lawlessness? Take your time, dude.

[BeFree]

44. Zappa is mocking?

Zappa can't speak for himself? He needs you to speak for him?

If so, then all I can say is that I feel sorry for poor zappa.

[Name removed]

46. Deleted sub-thread

Sub-thread removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Neily]

42. Event Postponed - but here is a video from Eric Lawyer

Funny to see this topic here tonight since I just came across this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kxGB2YoGV-I

Having my background in Forensics, it was very interesting to see him go over standard fire investigation protocol. The only question I have is whether or not this protocol was in place at the time of 9/11.

Furthermore, the speed of debris removal never has been suspect to me since it was a recovery operation, initially. However, after the removal, it is certainly negligent, at a minimum, that normal forensic testing was not done.

[BeFree]

43. You're not the first...

...to question the removal of evidence before it could be properly examined.

It took bushco a year, and only after much prodding, to get any kind of formal investigation going. It was the NIST one year after the fact that began assembling the data. And the NIST conclusions leave many unanswered questions even 8 years later.

Any reasonable person can see that there has been much effort expended to cover-up and whitewash the event. That's why we ask, at the least, for a new, complete and open investigation that answers ALL the questions.

America deserves nothing less.

[Make7]

59. Show aired last night (3/17/10) - audio available for download.

 
http://monksmedia.com/tvnews.php
 

[Make7]

60. kick

[defendandprotect]

61. Firefighters made clear . . . explosions going off IN SEQUENCE, floor by floor . .. !!!

MIHOP