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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 02:12 AM
Original message
Why shouldn't the public question the government?
Edited on Fri Apr-16-10 02:15 AM by noise
CIA agent John Kiriakou was in charge of the operation to capture Zubaydah. Recently he contradicted himself on the effectiveness of torture:

From a very recent NewsReal Blog interview by Elise Cooper:

NRB: Let’s put this controversy to rest; did the CIA get actionable intelligence from water boarding?

Kiriakou: I said in September, 2007 that Zubaydah produced actionable intelligence. I believe that to be true. I don’t know if he started to talk after the first time he was water boarded or after the last time. If you are asking me did Abu Zubaydah provide intelligence that saved American lives the answer is YES.

John Kiriakou: The Spy who Came in from the Cold Part One


From his book The Reluctant Spy: My Secret Life in the CIA's War on Terror:

What I told Brian Ross in late 2007 was wrong on a couple of counts. I suggested that Abu Zubaydah had lasted only thirty or thirty-give seconds during his waterboarding before he begged his interrogators to stop; after that, I said he opened up and gave the agency actionable intelligence. I wasn't there when the interrogation took place; instead, I relied on what I'd heard and read inside the agency at the time. Now, we know that Abu Zubaydah was waterboarded eighty-three times in a single month, raising questions about how much useful information he actually supplied. In retrospect, it was a valuable lesson in how the CIA uses the arts of deception even among its own.


One of Zubaydah's lawyers has raised doubts about Zubaydah's links to al Qaeda:

For many years, Abu Zubaydah's name has been synonymous with the war on terror because of repeated false statements made by the Bush administration, the majority of which were known to be false when uttered. On 17 April 2002, <...> President Bush publicly announced that Zayn had been captured: "We recently apprehended one of al-Qaida's top leaders, a man named Abu Zubaydah. He was spending a lot of time as one of the top operating officials of al-Qaida, plotting and planning murder."

Zayn's capture and imprisonment were touted as a great achievement in the fight against terrorism and al-Qaida. There was just one minor problem: the man described by President Bush and others within his administration as a "top operative", the "number three person" in al-Qaida, and al-Qaida's "chief of operations" was never even a member of al-Qaida, much less an individual who was among its "inner circle". The Bush administration had made another mistake.

The truth about Abu Zubaydah by defense counsel Brent Mickum


It has also been credibly alleged that Zubaydah suffered a brain injury when hit with shrapnel during the war with the Soviets in Afghanistan.

This raises questions about FBI agent Ali Soufan's claims that actionable intelligence was attained by interrogating Zubaydah with legal interrogation methods.

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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 08:45 AM
Response to Original message
1. I'm unclear....
Who told you that the public should not question the government?
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OnTheOtherHand Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 08:56 AM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why shouldn't people ask irrelevant rhetorical questions? n/t
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LARED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 06:34 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. So they can avoid being accused of authoritarianism nt
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 07:50 PM
Response to Reply #1
4. Have you seen anyone ask Kiriakou
or any other CIA officials to explain the contradictions in the Zubaydah account?
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 08:19 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. What contradictions?
Edited on Fri Apr-16-10 08:20 PM by Ohio Joe
It appears from your links he admitted he lied.

Edit: I'll ask again, who told you that the public should not question the government?
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noise Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Apr-16-10 09:51 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. Where did I write that somebody told me we
Edited on Fri Apr-16-10 09:51 PM by noise
should not question the government? The content of the post provides solid reasons to question the government. IMO there is a hesitancy to question the government these days when it comes to 9/11 and related issues.

What contradictions? Claims that Zubaydah was the number three man in al Qaeda. Claims that he had operational knowledge of follow up attacks. Claims that torture was effective in attaining actionable intelligence.
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Ohio Joe Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-17-10 07:35 AM
Response to Reply #6
7. umm... it is the title of your OP
There are plenty of questions to ask the government about 9/11 and related issues and no one has a problem with that (except maybe those that would have to answer them). It is when lunacy like CD, nukes and other such non-sense that has been dis proven over and over again come up that people object. They do not object because the government should not be questioned, they object because it is foolish non-sense, a distraction from real crimes and an insult to the people who died on 9/11 as well as the first responders.

"What contradictions? Claims that Zubaydah was the number three man in al Qaeda. Claims that he had operational knowledge of follow up attacks. Claims that torture was effective in attaining actionable intelligence."

According to your links, these are not contradictions, they are admitted lies, there is a difference.
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BeFree Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Apr-17-10 11:25 AM
Response to Original message
8. You have no evidence
Why would you think government employees are so bad?
Your theory is goofy.
No one here likes you and you are poisoning the debate.

****************

<grin>
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Bolo Boffin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Tue Jan-18-11 02:02 PM
Response to Original message
9. kick
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