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Edited on Sun Jul-04-10 08:26 PM by rschop
re: Why do some people seem to exist in order to "refute conspiracy theories"?
Several of the people who have posted on this forum, fit the description from the original question perfectly. They appear to exist only to refute conspiracy theories. As I had said before, "the tragedy of this forum is instead of being a serious discussion of these issues in a civilized manner, several of the posters on this forum post very demeaning and for lack of a better word, very snarky posts, with very obvious personal attacks and ad-hominem commentary. For whatever reasons, and acknowledging that moderating this forum is a difficult task, many of these personal attacks and ad-hominem commentary in particular questioning the motives of posters seems to remain unfiltered.” What is even more telling is that not one single debunker has never refuted even a single point with any verifiable facts concerning or even refuting as to why the CIA and FBI HQ had intentionally and deliberately allowed the al Qaeda terrorists to murder almost 3000 people on 9/11.
The issues of why these attacks were allowed to happen when so much was already known about several of the hijackers is too important to not be discussed and answers found to these questions. It is unfortunate that this forum has become something less than what it could have become to have had substantial discussions of these issues so the DU members could have had a better understanding of these very important issues."
“I hate to say it, but unless someone here can provide new information and not some uniformed “OPINION”, to effectively refute any of the evidence I had obtained, they should politely keep their comments to themselves."
I am reposting this again so my response is complete on not only as to why the CIA maintained secrecy in this case, but also to show that was possible to pierce this secrecy and find out exactly what had happened at the CIA and FBI HQ prior to the attacks on 9/11 that had allowed these attacks to take place.
From Thu Jan 14th 2010, 09:43 PM
The CIA and FBI HQ found out that both Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi were inside of the US on August 22, 2001, and even knew they were inside of the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda attack that would kill thousands. Yet the CIA and FBI HQ deliberately withheld this information from the FBI criminal investigators on the Cole bombing.
But the CIA had been deliberately hiding the names Khalid al-Mihdhar and Nawaf al-Hazmi from the FBI Cole bombing investigators since the Cole bombing had taken place. When Walid Bin Attash, the mastermind of the Cole bombing, had been identified from a photograph of him taken at the al Qaeda planning meeting in January 2000, and the CIA also had photos of Mihdhar and Hazmi at the same meeting they knew, that these three long time al Qaeda terrorists had been part of the planning of the Cole bombing that had taken place at this meeting. The CIA also knew if the FBI Cole bombing investigators ever became aware of this information, it would expose the CIA culpability in allowing these attacks to have taken place. Just after Bin Attash had been identified at Kuala Lumpur the CIA started a massive wide ranging criminal conspiracy to hide this information from the FBI Cole bombing investigators.
There is direct evidence of the involvement in this conspiracy of Cofer Black, George Tenet, John Gannon, and the CIA Yemen station, the CIA Pakistan Station, the CIA Bin Laden unit with Richard Blee as its Chief, and Tom Wilshire, Deputy Chief of the Bin Laden unit. Wilshire had even been moved over to be Deputy Chief of the ITOS unit at the FBI in mid-May 2001 by Black and Tenet, with the concurrence of Freeh and Rolince, in order to find out what the FBI Cole criminal investigators had found out about the Kuala Lumpur meeting, and if they had found out that Mihdhar and Hazmi had been at that meeting with Walid bin Attash actually planning the bombing of the USS Cole.
It is clear from the DE 939 “Substitution for the testimony of John”, aka Tom Wilshire, entered into the Moussaoui trial, that Wilshire in his July 23, 2001 email back to his CTC managers, Richard Blee, Chief of the Bin Laden unit, Cofer Black, head of the CIA CTC unit, and Director of the CIA George Tenet, clearly stated that Mihdhar would be found at the location of the next big al Qaeda attack.
Wilshire had already indicated, according to the DOJ IG report, in his July 5, 2001 email to his CTC managers that he thought at this point in time, that the people at Kuala Lumpur meeting were connected to the warnings the CIA and FBI had been receiving about a huge al Qaeda attack since April 2001.
It is also clear from document, DE 939, that Wilshire had been forbidden twice from giving this information to the FBI criminal investigators, by his CTC managers at the CIA on July 13, 2001, and again on July 23, 2001.
So it is clear the instructions to hide the information on the Kuala Lumpur meeting and the names Khalid al-Mihdhar, and Nawaf al-Hazmi from the FBI criminal investigators came from the very top of the CIA management at the very same time, that they were holding urgent meetings in the White House with Rice and Clarke, on July 10, 2001, and with Ashcroft and Rumsfeld on July 17, 2001 warning them a huge attack was just about to take place inside of the US that would kill thousands of Americans.
According to Bob Woodward’s book, State of Denial, Tenet and Black had already held a meeting with Richard Blee and other CIA managers earlier in July to ask where they all thought the massive al Qaeda attack they were being warned about would take place. The room went silent when Richard Blee stated, “They are coming here!”
On August 22, 2001, less than one month after Wilshire’s July 23, 2001 email to his CTC mangers on Mihdhar, FBI IOS Agent Margaret Gillespie at the CIA Bin Laden unit found out from the INS that both Mihdhar and Hazmi are inside of the US and took this information to FBI HQ Agent Dina Corsi and CIA officer Tom Wilshire. Note on July 24, 2001 Gillespie had already found the CIR on Mihdhar’s travels to Kuala Lumpur and his US multi-entry visa that specified New York City as his destination, written up by FBI IOS Agent Doug Miller at the CIA Bin Laden unit on January 5, 2000. This CIR that had written on the bottom; “Blocked by order of the Deputy Chief” (of the bin Laden unit, Tom Wilshire).
Wilshire and Corsi started to put together the EC to start an investigation of Mihdhar on August 22, 2001. Document DE 469 from the Moussaoui trial is the actual EC written up by FBI HQ Agent Dina Corsi, that connected both Mihdhar and Hazmi not only to the east Africa bombings, but also to the Cole bombing.
When FBI Agent Steve Bongardt, supervisor of the FBI Cole bombing investigators in New York, accidentally got Corsi’s EC to start an intelligence investigation of Mihdhar on August 28, 2001 he called Corsi to demand that the criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi go to his FBI Cole investigating team. Corsi told him that he could not investigate Mihdhar and Hazmi due to the restrictions on NSA information going to FBI criminal investigators.
But it is clear from DE 448, the release from the NSA to Corsi, that the NSA had already approved FBI Agent Dina Corsi to pass the NSA information on Mihdhar and Hazmi and the fact they attended the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting to the FBI criminal investigators in New York, on August 27, 2001 in a release that was sent to Corsi on August 28, 2001. The release even listed the recipients as “The FBI criminal Cole bombing investigators in New York”, Steve Bongardt and his team.
Page 306 of the DOJ IG report says:
Bongardt received the EC, Corsi’s EC, on August 28. Shortly thereafter, Bongardt, Corsi, and Rod Middleton, (Corsi’s boss), engaged in a conference call to discuss whether the case should be opened as a criminal instead of an intelligence investigation. Corsi told the OIG that the information on Mihdhar was received through intelligence channels and, because of restrictions on using intelligence information, could not be provided directly to the criminal agents working the Cole investigation. Rod Middleton told the OIG he had concurred with Corsi’s assessment that the matter should be an intelligence investigation.
Corsi with Rod Middleton’s concurrence ordered Bongardt to not have anything to do with any investigation of Mihdhar and to destroy any and all information that he had on Mihdhar. She later tells him, as described in the September 20, 2002 public hearings for the Joint Inquiry of 9/11, that if one piece of paper ever surfaced at the FBI with his name and Mihdhar’s name, he was through as an FBI Agent at the FBI.
Since Bongardt did not see any connection between the NSA information to any FISA warrant, he asked Corsi on August 28, 2001 to get a legal ruling from the NSLU, the legal unit at FBI HQ on this issue, to see if he and his team could take part in the investigation and search for Mihdhar and Hazmi.
On August 29, 2001, Corsi tells Bongardt that the NSLU attorney had ruled that Bongardt and his team could have no part in any investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi.
Email, from FBI Special Agent Steve Bongardt back to Dina Corsi, 908/29 8:38 AM said:
Dina- where is "the wall" defined? Isn't it dealing with FISA information"? I think everyone is still confusing this issue. I know we discussed this issue ad nasuseum but "the wall" concept grew out of the fear that FISA would be obtained as opposed to a Title III.
Bongardt even told Corsi when she told him that he could take part in the investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, “why do you think they are in the US, do you think they are going to f**king Disney Land!” It is clear that Bongardt knew immediately when he found out that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US that these long time al Qaeda terrorists were inside of the US in order to take part in a massive al Qaeda terrorist attack!
Sherry Sabol is the NSLU attorney that Corsi had contacted and from Sabol’s testimony to DOJ IG investigators, on November 7, 2002, it is clear that Sabol had ruled in fact just the opposite from what Corsi had told FBI Agent Bongardt. Sabol had ruled that Bongardt and his team could be part of any investigation and search for of Mihdhar since the NSA information had no connection to any FISA warrant.
Sabol told Corsi said if she was still confused she, (Corsi) could go and get a ruling from the NSA, unaware Corsi had already obtained approval from the NSA to transfer the NSA information over to the FBI two days earlier on August 27, 2001. See testimony of Sherry Sabol, 9/11 Commission report p 538, footnote 81.
According to the DOJ IG report, on August 30, 2001 the photograph of Walid Bin Attash, mastermind of the Cole bombing, taken at the Kuala Lumpur al Qaeda planning meeting in January 2000 was sent by the CIA to Rod Middleton, Corsi’s supervisor. So on this date, Middleton has photographic proof that Mihdhar and Hazmi, who also had been photographed at this meeting, were at the Kuala Lumpur meeting with Bin Attash actually planning the Cole bombing. This is a crime and directly connects both Mihdhar and Hazmi, who the FBI criminal investigators now knew were inside of the US, to the crime of planning the Cole bombing.
The DOJ IG report had stated that on August 22, 2001, FBI Agent Dina Corsi was already aware that the CIA had this photograph of Bin Attash taken at Kuala Lumpur and even knew that the CIA had been deliberately keeping this photograph and the fact that Bin Attash had been at this Kuala Lumpur meeting with Mihdhar and Hazmi planning the Cole bombing, secret from the FBI Cole bombing investigators in New York and their supervisor FBI Agent Steve Bongardt. This information clearly meant that the investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi should have gone to FBI Agent Steve Bongardt and his team, since this was the photographic proof that both Mihdhar and Hazmi, known to be long time al Qaeda terrorists connected to the east Africa bombings, had also taken part in the planning of the Cole bombing.
And yet in spite of this information and the fact that on August 28, 2001 Middleton, had been on the phone call with Corsi and Bongardt, shutting down Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, Middleton never called Bongardt back to undo the damage he had done in shutting down this investigation earlier.
The CIA working with these FBI HQ agents had not only criminally withheld critical information from the Cole bombing investigators in a massive criminal conspiracy, but had then shut down Bongardt’s investigation when Bongardt accidentally found out that both Mihdhar and Hazmi were inside of the US and knew these al Qaeda terrorists were here only in order to take part in another horrific al Qaeda terrorists attack.
It is now clear that the CIA working with FBI HQ agents they had subjugated had intentionally shut down the only FBI criminal investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi, prior to the attacks on 9/11 that could have prevented these attacks from taking place. Since shutting down Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi was deliberate, it is all but impossible to believe that when the CIA and FBI HQ shut down Bongardt’s investigation of Mihdhar and Hazmi that they all, including the senior managers at the CIA and even the FBI who were directing the actions of Wilshire, Corsi and Middleton, did not know that thousands of Americans were going to perish as a direct result of their actions.
NOTE, the information presented here and on www.eventson911.com are just the tip of an enormous ice berg detailing the criminal and nefarious actives at both the CIA and FBI HQ that had allowed the attacks on 9/11 to take place.
See my Journal and/or www.eventson911.com for additional details on all of this, including the documents that actually are the iron clad proof!
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