Another DUer posted this in GD regarding republicans, but I think it may have some relevance here

[whatchamacallit]

Edit: Not sure why but a space keeps getting inserted into the link. Copy and paste into the url for the correct page.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning–Kruger_effect

[Make7]

1. Working link:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning%96Kruger_effect
 

[SDuderstadt]

2. Yeah, you just described....

conspiracy theorists, dude.

[whatchamacallit]

4. You're quite certain of that

aren't you...

[SDuderstadt]

5. Positive, dude...

search my past posts for "unskilled and unaware of it" and see how long I've been citing the Dunning study.

Then study logical fallacies and see if you can identify the one you're on the verge of committing there, dude. Let us know if you get stuck, if you're not already.

P.S. You make it way too easy to turn the tables on you. I'll bet you even "wore the juice", too.

[whatchamacallit]

6. I think not

The Dunning–Kruger effect is a cognitive bias in which an unskilled person makes poor decisions and reaches erroneous conclusions, but their incompetence denies them the metacognitive ability to realize their mistakes.<1> The unskilled therefore suffer from illusory superiority, rating their own ability as above average, much higher than it actually is, while the highly skilled underrate their abilities, suffering from illusory inferiority. This leads to the perverse situation in which less competent people rate their own ability higher than more competent people. It also explains why actual competence may weaken self-confidence: because competent individuals falsely assume that others have an equivalent understanding. "Thus, the miscalibration of the incompetent stems from an error about the self, whereas the miscalibration of the highly competent stems from an error about others."<1>
Similar notions have been expressed–albeit less scientifically–for some time. Dunning and Kruger themselves quote Charles Darwin ("Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge")<1> and Bertrand Russell ("One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid, and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision."<2><3>)...

Someone who is certain of everything
Someone who delights in pointing out the perceived intellectual deficiencies of others while shamelessly inflating their own
Someone whose attitude embodies the Darwin and Bertrand quotes
Someone who assumes the Dunning-Kruger effect could never apply to them, only others

Sound like anyone you know? Sure does to me, dude.

[SDuderstadt]

7. Yeah...

you.

[whatchamacallit]

8. Ha, nice try

I see the effect is on full display. Go sdude, go!

[SDuderstadt]

9. Dude...

it's been nearly nine years...are you about ready to bust this thing wide open? Also, regarding certainty, you have claimed the "OCT" is one big lie...tell me something....have you even read whatever you consider the "OCT" to be or, as I suspect, did you let someone else do your thinking for you?

[whatchamacallit]

10. Um... who would that someone else be?

On the issue of the OCT being a big lie, I admit that was more or less reactionary. I honestly don't know if the OCT is a total lie, though I certainly feel there is plenty of reason to doubt its veracity. BTW this "it's been nine years" thing of yours doesn't really work. We still don't have all the pertinent information and evidence. Many aspects of 9/11 were poorly investigated, if investigated at all. Pretending like it's all been out on the table and skeptics still failed, is disingenuous. Also, maybe you should consider it your failure that after nine years the OCT has not been able to prove it's case conclusively enough to end the controversy.

[SDuderstadt]

11. Dude....

nice try. What "pertinent information and evidence" don't you have? And, I noticed that you still will not answer my question. Have you read whatever you consider to be the "OCT" or not? Have you read the 9/11 Commission Report? Have you read the staff statements? The transcripts of the witness testimony? Have you read the MFR's? Have you read the NIST reports? Have you read ASCE's report? Or, did someone tell you they were a total lie and you just bought it hook, line and sinker?

I'm not going to consider it "our failure" when you can't demonstrate a cursory understanding of the information in the public realm. Do you honestly think NO ONE in the various investigations wanted to find out the truth? Do you honestly think that the thousands of people outside the investigation from the various disciplines (controlled demolition, structural engineers, aviation, etc.)would realize that something is wrong and not say anything?

Dude, it's been nearly nine years and you and your "movement" have failed miserably at putting forth a coherent alternative theory. Why is that? Do you really think people grounded in rationality (which leaves you out) care that you still think there's a controversy? Don't you think that, after nine years, "the dog ate my evidence" rationalizations of the "truth movement" have worn a little thin? Do you honestly think someone, somewhere is sitting on a smoking gun?

Dude...you can take your "doubts and questions" and try to represent it as some well-intentioned quixotic quest. If you develop some concrete evidence, many people (including, believe it or not, me) are open-minded. However, after nearly nine years of "we're almost there" bullshit from folks like yourself, there's little question that the "truth movement" has cried "wolf" one too many times and squandered what little credibility they have left.

Nearly nine years later and you've still got dick.

[whatchamacallit]

12. Again

if that fat lady has sung, you need to find a new gig.

[SDuderstadt]

13. Really, dude?

Seems to me that, in your case, the fat lady has only sung, she's sat on and flattened you.

Serious question: after nearly nine years, why hasn't the "truth movement made any real progress? More importantly, what is this pertinent evidence that supposedly is being withheld from you? Simple question: do you believe we were attacked by al Qaeda on 9/11? Yes or no.

[whatchamacallit]

14. Then what's your deal?

What's in it for you? if there's nothing to debate, your participation is futile. I think I'll call it "The Duder Paradox".:think:

[SDuderstadt]

18. Dude...

why don't we stick to the facts and you refrain from constantly assailing my motivation, dude. Oh, wait...I forgot...you'd lose automatically. My mistake.

[whatchamacallit]

21. Apparently all the facts are in and issues settled and I've already lost so

goto #14

[SDuderstadt]

26. Learn to read, dude...

once you have, read post # 10th and knock off the strawman arguments, dude.

[AZCat]

3. What relevance do you think this has?

Please explain.

[AZCat]

15. Still waiting... n/t

[whatchamacallit]

16. Hey AZ

It doesn't have general relevance to the 9/11 forum, but rather to a particular type of psychology possessed by some of its participants. But you know this if you've been reading this thread.

[AZCat]

17. I'd still be interested in an explication. n/t

[whatchamacallit]

19. I'm pretty sure you catch my drift

Like I said, anyone following the thread will grok its meaning. A detailed explication might entail a rules violation. You wouldn't want that would you?

[AZCat]

20. I'm not interested in encouraging rules violations.

I am, however, interested in your reasoning behind the OP. If you don't think you can explain it without violating the rules, why did you post it in the first place?

[whatchamacallit]

22. I dunno

maybe as a response to all the moronic posts assailing "the psychology of CTers". Besides, a contributor to this thread has admitted to using the Dunning-Kurger effect to malign truthers. Ironic.

[SDuderstadt]

23. Another one of your stupid strawman arguments, dude...

Could you kindly point to anywhere that I or anyone else "admitted" to using Dunning to "malign truthers"?

Your intellectual dishonesty is nothing less than stunning.

[zappaman]

24. yay!

my boogers taste like cherries!

[AZCat]

25. So do you think the Dunning-Kruger effect is widespread...

among those in this forum who consistently argue against the various September 11th conspiracy theories? Does it only apply to a few? Or does it not apply at all, but you were looking for something to use to "get back" at the people who you feel had been maligning you and the other supporters of September 11th conspiracy theories? If it's either of the first two, then I'd be interested in continuing the discussion. If it's the latter, then it is not a topic that interests me.