Is the truth about 9/11 about to be exposed?

[zappaman]

some real heavyweights have signed on...

Dear Fellow Truth Advocates,

Today, the 11th of August 2010, we are pleased to announce the beginning of the worldwide “BuildingWhat?” campaign.

For nearly nine years, the American people and the world have been kept in the dark about an event of monumental significance: the freefall collapse of World Trade Center Building 7, a 47-story skyscraper that was the third building to fall on September 11, 2001, even though it was not struck by a plane and suffered only minimal fire damage. Only a small minority of the public has seen footage of this collapse. But the vast majority of those who have seen the footage agree that the building was brought down intentionally, and they therefore support a new investigation of 9/11.

In 1975, nearly 12 years after JFK’s assassination, the public release of the Zapruder film created widespread doubt of the official account and eventually led to the creation of the House Select Committee on Assassinations. The Committee found that the Warren Commission investigation had been seriously flawed, and that there had indeed been a second gunman. The lesson we must take from this is that a few seconds of video footage can help reshape the way a country views the event of its generation.

There is a reason why the mainstream news media won’t discuss or air footage of the collapse of Building 7 – because that footage is the “Zapruder film of 9/11.” As the first step in a worldwide effort to spread awareness of the collapse of Building 7 to every corner of the globe, we have come together to cosponsor the “BuildingWhat?” Television Advertising Campaign in New York City. Our goal is to enlighten over 1 million New Yorkers with footage of Building 7’s freefall collapse. The plan is to blanket the New York City television market with our ad during the week of September 20, 2010.

We are seeking to raise $500,000 between August 11 and September 11, 2010 to cover the costs of this effort. Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth is now a 501(c)(3) tax-exempt organization, and so every dollar that is donated to this campaign will be fully tax-deductible!

We know there is nothing you would want more than for the truth about 9/11 to be revealed, and for the positive impact it would have on our society to take hold. Indeed, you have been involved in this struggle for many years.

We ask you now to unite in a movement-wide effort and give as much as you can to make this campaign possible. We must prove to ourselves what we are capable of. Let’s start a tidal wave of truth that will grow from city to city until tens of millions of people learn the truth about 9/11. Please read the details below and consider becoming a part of what will perhaps be the most important effort ever to awaken the public to the truth. After you’ve read more about the campaign, please go to BuildingWhat.org to donate.

Thank you for caring.

Very truly yours,

Manny Badillo, Nephew of Thomas Joseph Sgroi

Richard Gage, Architects and Engineers for 9/11 Truth

David Ray Griffin, Religious Leaders for 9/11 Truth

Niels Harrit, Coauthor of the WTC Nanothermite Study

Karen Johnson, Political Leaders for 9/11 Truth

Erik Lawyer, Firefighters for 9/11 Truth

Bob McIlvaine, Father of Bobby McIlvaine

JF Ranger, World for 9/11 Truth

Kevin Ryan, Coeditor of the Journal of 9/11 Studies

Ted Tilton Jr. and Justin Keogh, 911Blogger.com

William Veale, Lawyers for 9/11 Truth

Ted Walter, NYC CAN

[BeFree]

1. Very good

That's what is great about DU, you can read stuff here that the rest of the media sources wouldn't dare touch.

Zappa would be proud.

[zappaman]

2. I know, huh?

can't believe the media won't touch this!!!
why do you think that is?

[BeFree]

3. It's called....

....The Curtain. Well, that's what Zappa would call it, duh!

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SDuderstadt]

5. Maybe you should move to NYC and...

help these guys, dude.

God knows you couldn't screw it up any worse than they have already.

[mrarundale]

84. Why would the "media" want to expose

THEMSELVES?? DUH!!!! Although you are one of those people who needs an "expert" to tell them what to think....

[LARED]

85. Let me guess

The voices of alien overlords tells you what to think.

[LARED]

6. These guys have a death wish

There is a reason why the mainstream news media won’t discuss or air footage of the collapse of Building 7 – because that footage is the “Zapruder film of 9/11.” As the first step in a worldwide effort to spread awareness of the collapse of Building 7 to every corner of the globe, we have come together to cosponsor the “BuildingWhat?” Television Advertising Campaign in New York City. Our goal is to enlighten over 1 million New Yorkers with footage of Building 7’s freefall collapse. The plan is to blanket the New York City television market with our ad during the week of September 20, 2010.

Actually if they really do this I can just image the news footage of NYC firemen telling the world how nuts these people are and inviting them to the big apple for a good old fashion butt kicking.

[BeFree]

7. Yeah?

Bring it on. Let's for once, have an open conversation.

Put it all on the table and air out the differences. Do you really want that?

[SDuderstadt]

8. Dude...

go to the Firefighters for 9/11 Truth website and look at the membership list. Notice there is literally no membership from FDNY. What does that tell you, dude?

[Name removed]

9. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zappaman]

10. why don't you answer the question

why are there not any NYFD troofers?

[BeFree]

11. There are none?

And you can prove that?

Or is that just s curtain you are holding up?

[SDuderstadt]

13. Dude....

as I suggested before, take a stroll through the membership list of "FF9/11T", then explain why there is virtually no representation from FDNY. If I remember correctly, the few that are not active firefighters, dude.

[SDuderstadt]

12. WTF?

Of course, you're back to your old tricks, suggesting that people who disagree with you on the facts are "Bushco" plants. What in the world does that have to do with the LACK of firefighters from FDNY in "Firefighters for 9/11 Truth"? Are you suggesting that members of FDNY are avid "Bushco" supporters? Or, are you suggesting that "Bushco" is somehow preventing firefighters from FDNY from joining "Firefighters for 9/11 Truth"?

As usual. your post is incoherent. Please explain why the fire department with the most at stake in learing the "truth" about 9/11 is so underrepresented in "FF9/11T", dude. Can you?

[BeFree]

14. Keep digging

You're almost there.

You may prove to the world that bushco never planned any of 9/11, but I doubt it.

[SDuderstadt]

15. Dude...

you need to get something straight. The claim that "Bushco" planned any of 9/11 is yours. If you understood anything about Logic or critical thinking at all, you'd understand that YOU have the burden of proof, a task at which you've failed miserably, despite the fact that Bush is despised by so many, myself included.

I don't have to prove that Bush never planned any of 9/11, I just have to show that you've failed to prove your case and, so far, that's been a walk in the park.

Dude, if Bush HAD planned 9/11, there would be abundant evidence of it, not the silly, easily debunked goofy bullshit you "disburse" here. Eventually, that just might sink in with you.

[Name removed]

31. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SDuderstadt]

35. "Did SDuderstadt just accidentally admit to being paid to post here"

Dude...do you understand anything at all about Logic and critical thinking? The exchange in question is because BeFree is making a claim, then demanding we disprove it. In Logic, that's known as "trying to shift the burden of proof". The maker of the claim bears the burden of proof. The "opponent" is not obligated to disprove it, just "show" that the maker of the claim has failed to prove it. That's not "accidentally admitting to being paid to post" here. Duh.

I use EMK as my avatar because I am a lifelong liberal Democrat. I'll match my credentials against yours any day, dude. If I were you, I'd drop the accusations that anyone is either a paid poster or a "dis-info" agent. The only reason I "come across" as disinfo to you is because you are so invested in your goofy bullshit. Why is it so hard for "truther" types to recognize there can be principled opposition based upon the facts?

If you are "hot on the trail of MIHOP or LIHOP", I'd love to see you provide evidence of it.

[SDuderstadt]

39. "I've noticed over the years about 4 or 5 posts that contained evidence of insider involvement...

that was quite compelling"

By all means, educate us, dude.

[BeFree]

59. If you actually read this board...

...you would have been educated. But it's obvious you cherry pick what you want to read. I guess that's part of your 'superior' skills?

[SDuderstadt]

61. Why don't YOU educate us, then...

dude? Please give us these 4 or 5 "compelling" pieces of evidence proving insider involvement?

Take your time.

[BeFree]

63. heh

You want me to hold your hand and walk you through the evidence?

Now that is a goofy idea. But here is a hint:

Look at some of the evidence from Moussoui's(sp) trial.

[SDuderstadt]

65. Dude...

I have read the entire trial transcript and I'm willing to bet you haven't. Instead of giving one of your typical goofy bullshit answers, instead of being deliberately vague, could you please try to answer the question rather than play your stupid games?

Of course, that's assuming you can even answer the question to begin with.

[zappaman]

16. hahhahahahahaha

"You may prove to the world that bushco never planned any of 9/11, but I doubt it."
I hope you have an idea how insanely funny that sentence is!
you do realize the burden of proof is on you and your cohorts, don't you?

:rofl:

[SDuderstadt]

17. The reality is that BeFree does NOT...

understand how insanely funny that is.

Although his heart is in the right place and we are on the same side of the political spectrum, trying to reason with BeFree reminds me of the time that a RWer claimed that Logic is "a liberal trick".

[LARED]

19. bushco members ??

What's a bushco member?

[SDuderstadt]

20. That's just BeFree up to his old tricks and....

absolutely poisoning the debate. Any minute we'll hear from him in his, "who, me?" mode.

[LARED]

21. Oh I realize that, it's just

when he uses terms like "bushco members" he makes it sound like it's the hair club for men and for a few dollars you too can be part of the BFEE. It beyond absurd that if you don't denounce Bush at every opportunity you are somehow on his team. Whatever that even means. I imagine that if Befree burns his morning toast it's bushco member that's responsible.

[LARED]

18. Open conversation?

What in the world do you think has been going on for nearly 10 years.

DO you think I am hiding something?

[BeFree]

30. Hiding something?

Yeah.
Your critical think skills.

[SDuderstadt]

32. "Your critical think skills"

Dude, you don't even know what critical thinking is. The idea of you lecturing someone else about it makes about as much sense as Elizabeth Taylor lecturing someone about long-term marriage.

[BeFree]

34. heh

And you think you are the ONE to lecture?

He asked is he hiding something. I answered him.

And here you are with yet another personal, off-the-wall attack.

Good thing there are few of you and your Duds.

[SDuderstadt]

36. Dude...

I'll match my critical thinking skills against yours any day. As proof, I'll just let people read your posts. I rest my case.

[BeFree]

37. We have a winner!!

You. Obviously your skills are much greater.

Too bad you don't use them wisely.

[SDuderstadt]

38. Dude...

is it impossible for you to see that there can be principled opposition on the facts? Perhaps if you'd quit resorting to accusing people of being "Bushco" plants, you'd be received better here. Instead, you rarely debate the facts and, instead, attack our motivation. It gets really tiring.

I'll make an agreement with you. Every time you accuse, imply or insinuate that I am a "Bushco" plant, I will reciprocate by similarly accusing, implying or insinuating that you are a bin Laden apologist. I am sure you won't find that offensive since you don't believe he was involved. Deal?

[BeFree]

58. Go ahead

I never wrote you were a 'bushco plant'. Show us one post where I did.

Bin laden was a business partner of bushco. Bush held hands with the SA prince. Bush lied to the country over and over about Iraq. Bin laden played a part in 9/11.

Bush lied about 9/11. Fine, if you believe those lies about 9/11. Or do you?

I know he lied the whole time he was in office. I'm just trying to make sure no one forgets or starts to think that bush didn't lie. He lied and people died.

But if you think it makes you look better, go ahead. I can refute damn near everything you write. Why is that, don't you wonder? Is it a special power I have, or is it just the truth?

[SDuderstadt]

66. "I know he lied the whole time he was in office"

Dude...we're talking about whether Bush planned 9/11. Do you have evidence he did or not?

[LARED]

86. You are a hoot

You're a guy that accuses me of having no "critical think" skills, yet if any one disagrees with your lame CT nonsense they are accused of being "bushco members" by you.

So what makes you think we are not having open conversations? Let me guess. Your "critical think" skills are so meager you believe that because I don't buy into the lame CT nonsense you have great faith in I must be a hiding my true agenda of maintaining the status quo.

[SDuderstadt]

28. I hereby nominate this post as...

the most unintentionally ironic post of the last century.

It's kinda hard to have an open conversation about a subject when BeFree keeps casually flinging "Bushco member" around.

[Name removed]

22. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[zappaman]

23. why

am I an intel fuck?
you going to contribute, spooked?
it sounds like a great way to get the truth out!

[spooked911]

24. you know why you are

and I won't contribute until they start talking about the nuking.

[SDuderstadt]

25. Let me make sure I get this right, Spooked...

you won't contribute currently because they are "intel fucks", but you will if they start talking about the "nuking"?

Did I get that right?


Serious question: don't they have serious enough credibility issues without exacerbating it to the point of no return by involving you? Why would they want to involve you anyhow?

[zappaman]

26. dude

I think you are an intel fuck.

[SDuderstadt]

27. That would be...

MISTER "intel fuck" to you, dude.

[spooked911]

87. I suspect they are intel since they promote the thermite nonsense.

If they are intel (at least the leadership), then they will not touch the nuclear mechanism.

If they are open to nuking, and dismiss the thermite nonsense, then I might trust them more, and possibly donate.

I am not going to donate to people who promote thermite.

[SDuderstadt]

88. Spooked "Logic"

Thermite is nonsense, but "mini-nukes" aren't.

Oy.

[LARED]

89. I have to say this you are fascinating person

You don't believe in thermite nonsense, yet you are sold on nuke nonsense.

[zappaman]

90. hysterical

ain't it?

[LARED]

91. Yes, indeed it is.

[William Seger]

29. Well, the truth about AE911truth is about to be exposed

On August 21, Richard Gage and Neils Harrit (lead author of the "exploding paint chip" paper) will debate two physicists, Dave Thomas and Kim Johnson, on the "Coast to Coast AM" radio show.

It won't matter to True Believers, of course, but if you pay attention and listen objectively, you may get a clue why the "truth movement" has withered on the vine.

[BeFree]

33. Withered?

Day by day more people become more aware of the truth of what happened on 9/11.

Just look at the polls on DU. Nearly 1 out of every ten still believes the OCT.

Withering? Nah. A slow steady growth that those blinded by the OCT can't see.

[SDuderstadt]

40. "Day by day more people become more aware of the truth of what happened on 9/11"

Really, dude? How many are you up to now?

You remind me of the comedian Don Novella who wrote to McDonald's under the pseudonym Lazlo Toth and said, "I see by your sign that you've sold a billion hamburgers. How many more do you have to go?

[zappaman]

41. dude

EVERYONE now knows the OCT is a pack of lies!!!!
How do I and BeFree know?
We just do, dammit!!!!
how many times have you found yourself in a conversation, say...at the supermarket?
"Hey dude."
"Hey man, what's up?"
"Ah, just buying some beer for my BBQ this weekend. You wanna come?"
"Sure! Sounds like fun!"
"Yeah, it should be great. By the way, did you know the WTC was taken down by nukes? It's all over the internets!"

[SDuderstadt]

42. The key there might lie in the amount of...

beer consumed.

Hey, I think I'll start calling BeFree, "BeerFree".

[William Seger]

51. And day by day, more people become more aware

... of the bullshit spread by the "truth movement." Particularly revealing is that you guys haven't come up with enough "truth" to even convince each other what happened, so you have fragmented into sects accusing each other of being "disinfo agents" ("false prophets"), i.e. people who believe different bullshit than you do. I guess the lesson is that it's hard to build an organized "movement" based on paranoia, huh. Just think how easy it would be if you just had a few credible facts to work with... :eyes:

[BeFree]

56. An organized movement

That's interesting. Are we up against an 'organized movement' that has already convinced each other to follow the OCT?

And do you doubt for one second there are no disinfo agents working the 9/11 story?

Have you any idea? No... I guess you don't.

[zappaman]

57. "Are we up against an 'organized movement' that has already convinced each other to follow the OCT?"

Nah.
Just logic, reason, and evidence.
Got any of those?

[William Seger]

60. See, you even talk about it as if it's religion

It simple does not occur to you that what you are calling the "OCT" is simply what rational people in the real world call "established facts." Of course, that doesn't necessarily mean that it's "The Truth": Rational people can be convinced that something they took as a "fact" is not true, and they are not only willing but eager to have falsehoods overturned. Otherwise, they aren't really rational. But since the entire concept of rationality seems to elude you, it's not surprising that you have no idea what that would take.

As for your "disinfo agents," that seems to be a direct derivative of your unshakeable beliefs about who committed the attack. It's exactly like religious people who think any word contrary to their beliefs is not the honest opinion of a disbeliever, but the work of the devil. I don't doubt that there are some people who would like to conceal the real story behind our rather obvious intelligence and response failures, but I see no need for any "disinfo agents" -- certainly not people who pretend to be "truthers" for the purpose of embarrassing the "movement" with especially idiotic nonsense. It seems to me there are plenty of unwitting volunteers for that job.

[BeFree]

62. wow

You stoop so low as to bring religion and the devil into your attack on me. Wow.

Ever hear of the CIA and black ops? Ever? You think the CIA never does disinfo?

Look, is there one thing that about the OCT that you think was a lie? One item, or facet that makes you wonder with your superior rationality that something you took as a "fact" is not true?

[William Seger]

68. 9/11 Truthism is a religion...

... and the question you should be asking (yourself) is: Why should anyone take any of the bullshit coming out of the "truth movement" seriously, when it's clearly not based on solid facts and sound reasoning?

[BeFree]

69. well

If you are saying that none of the alternates to the OCT have any truth, then you are being totally irrational, and a bit goofy, I might add.

And, we notice, you have, once again, avoided and evaded answering a question.

Frankly, believing the OCT without question, is beyond the realm of rationality and where you have placed yourself.

Keep digging. All you are doing is getting further away from reality. Shame. You used to show such promise.

[William Seger]

70. Solid facts and sound reasoning

Is that you don't quite know what that means, or that you don't quite understand why a rational person would care about those things? Or both?

[BeFree]

72. Keep digging, Seger

You too might someday prove to someone that you have all the answers.

But we know you never will, William.

I know it's hard to accept. It crushes egos to discover that what we know amounts to very little, but you just keep right on digging. It would be nice, tho, if you could be coherent and stay on the track, but it's what we have come to expect, so keep on digging.

[SDuderstadt]

73. Why don't you address what Seger claims and asks...

dude?

Can you?

[BeFree]

74. Hey

Seger isn't even sure of what he is claiming. I'm not sure he hasn't just decided to play hide and seek. Kinda like you. You are the master. Guess he's learned at your feet, eh?

[SDuderstadt]

75. More game-playing...

what a surprise. I'm sure everyone notes that you never address arguments directly, dude.

It's why you're not taken seriously here.

[BeFree]

76. Ok, I'll ask you

Is there any part of the OCT you have found to be false?

[SDuderstadt]

77. Dude...

not until you answer the questions we put to you first.

Your stupid "answering a question with a question" isn't flying anymore, dude.

[BeFree]

78. You're funny

The master has spoken, and I wasn't even talking with you. I guess you saw how badly William was doing so you had to interfer and take over to save Seger? Is that special...

[SDuderstadt]

79. And, you still haven't answered a single question...

put to you, dude.

[BeFree]

80. That's goofy

And total bullshit, and you know it. Why you persist, I haven't a clue.

Keep digging. Deeper and deeper. Everyone here just loves you. They can't get enough, you are so smart and wise and know it all. Everyone loves the know it alls, and I just have to hand it to you.

Now stay away and let Seger speak for himself. Come back Seger.

[SDuderstadt]

81. Now you're trying to pretend I didn't ask you what evidence you have that...

Bush planned 9/11. How pathetic.

[BeFree]

82. I answered that

Are you daft? Have you forgotten already?

This is not your finest hour, sport. Hang it up already and well see what Seger has to say for himself.

[SDuderstadt]

83. No, you didn't, dude...

please show all of us where you did.

[SDuderstadt]

67. "Have you any idea? No... I guess you don't"

More of your despicable game-playing, dude.

[William Seger]

45. One word: attrition (n/t)

[NYMdaveNYI]

43. you should buy ad space from the MTA...

they are letting that teabagger put an ad on the buses that shows the plane going in and next to it the mosque.


If you can get ads on the subways, (especially the 1, 5, R and E trains, which have stops either at, or within close proximity to Ground Zero) then people will start to listen.



TV ads are way too expensive, but the MTA is broke, so they will take a low paying advertisement.

[SDuderstadt]

44. You realize the OP is being sarcastic....

right?

[NYMdaveNYI]

46. oh, nevermind....

I’ll email the actual organization suggesting it.

Zappaman confuses me.

[SDuderstadt]

47. "Zappaman confuses me"

which is the object of clever satire.

Quick...is Stephen Colbert a conservative or a liberal parodying conservatism?

[NYMdaveNYI]

48. all this talk of “bushco plants”...

makes me wonder if zappaman and BeFree are among the many infiltrators of the 9-11 Truth Movement.


when we ask logical questions about:

-why NORAD was running war games of planes hitting the Pentagon and WTC on 9/11

-how AA77 “vaporized” into the wall of the pentagon

-how UA93 practically disappeared in Shanksville

-how Building 7 collapsed after a few hours just due to “fires”

-why the NTSB data of AA77 is contradicted by the many witnesses interviewed by Craig Ranke/CIT

-why the CIA won’t release the video from the entry gate of the impact of flight 77 (while we saw the Trade Center impacts countless times on TV)

-why the section of the Pentagon impacted was coincidentally empty because of “renovations”

- why Mayor Giuliani wasnt in his WTC7 command center on 9/11

- the explosions at the bases of the towers

- the “chubby bin laden” video (with problematic translations) that the CIA just happened to stumble across in some house in Afghanistan

- the BBC report that about a half-dozen of the “19 hijackers” were still alive and well in Saudi Arabia in 2002.


and then, someone like zappaman comes in and says “YEA, AND THE PLANES WERE HOLOGRAMS, TOO!!!!”


these people are here to purposely infiltrate and undermine the LOGICAL and LEVELHEADED faction of the 9/11 truth movement


thus, we are all painted as crazies that think the planes were "on a greenscreen", or 9/11 is part of an “illuminati plot” by Bush Sr., or many other illogical claims.


I’m not the kind of conspiracy nut who goes to sleep with a tin foil hat on because i’m afraid of the radio waves, but I know a problematic official story when I see one.

[zappaman]

49. yes, because

"how AA77 “vaporized” into the wall of the pentagon" is soooooo level-headed.
you need to embrace your "mini-nukes, planes were hologram, missile hit the pentagon, no plane crash in PA" brothers!
they are part of your great movement.

[William Seger]

50. Kinda hard

... to claim to be "LOGICAL and LEVELHEADED" after posting a list of "questions" that you could easily find answers to, if you were so inclined. Most of what you have there is just bullshit that you're regurgitating from highly unreliable sources, apparently without any fact-checking, and the small part that isn't bullshit just doesn't add up to "inside job." But you'd already know that if you were legitimately "asking questions." That's exactly why I always put "truthers" in quotes, and why I don't have any problem ignoring their attempts to rationalize why so many people aren't buying their bullshit.

[SDuderstadt]

52. I see you're tone deaf, too...

Dude...I'm. a debunker. Just like Zappaman. I'm sure that BeFree will be crushed to learn that you suspect he's amomg the ranks of the "infiltrators", inasmuch as he devotes so much of his life to "hounding Bushco".

You sound like a "9/11 was an inside job" website exploded in your head. Let's take just one of your goofy, bullshit claims.

how Building 7 collapsed after a few hours just due to “fires”

Really, dude? It was just a "few hours"? Try more like at least 6-7 (that's off the top of my head). You also seem to be omitting the external damage caused when WTC 2 partially collapsed on it. Why don't you ask the FDNY whether it was remotely suspicious that WTC 7 collapsed. They had been expecting it most of the afternoon.

For the record, I have never "painted" a single "truther" here as a "crazy".

[NYMdaveNYI]

53. One Meridian Plaza burned for 19 hours, over eight floors and still stood,

your explanation for WTC7’s collapse is problematic.

The Deutsche Bank Building was CLOSER to WTC2, it received heavy debris showers, and still stood. If the debris WAS, in fact, a major factor in the collapse of WTC7, the Deutsche Bank Building, One Liberty Plaza, and the Millennium Hilton should have been destroyed as well.

I WILL award you that some of the conspiracy claims are half-thought.

for example, some truthers will say that “the steel columns in the twin towers couldn’t have collapsed just because of fire, therefore there were explosives that brought it down”, umm well, there was a giant plane that burst in and damaged the steel columns, causing a pancake effect.

[SDuderstadt]

54. Dude...

do you believe that all buildings are designed and built the same way? If not, why would you expect them to behave the same way when subjected to the same event?

[NYMdaveNYI]

55. you seem to be implying...

that the Deustche Bank Building was more structurally secure than WTC 7.

However, that would be incorrect.

WTC 7 is to the Deutsche Bank Building as an army tank is to a honda civic.

It was the headquarters for the SEC, CIA, and other agencies, it wasn’t designed to fall like a house of cards.

Again, the Deutsche Bank Building suffered a 24-story gash in its facade from debris, and had pieces of steel and concrete sticking out of it for months, but it still stands today.

with this in mind, you want me to believe that a 100% steel framed building, further away from the towers than the aforementioned one, was compromised to the point that it collapsed into itself?

even NIST acknowledged there were no fires within WTC7 prior to 12 noon on September 11. If the Twin Towers had already collapsed over an hour earlier, how did these numerous fires start? Flaming aluminum debris and steel beams ejected 400 feet inside the WTC-7? I think not.

one more thing, if jet fuel only burns at 600-1000 degrees celsius and steel melts at 1500 degrees, how then were pools of molten steel discovered weeks later, far below the street level of WTC? There is no rational explanation. There is NO scientific explanation. Steel may indeed weaken. But a 600-1000 degree fire can NEVER melt a metal that liquifies at a higher temperature. Just one of the many unexplainable scientific facts that NIST, FEMA and MIT will attempt to explain away.

[William Seger]

64. Really?

Explain to me the design details of the beam-to-column connections used in WTC 7 (hint: see NIST report), then explain to me exactly what you think would restrain the thermal expansion, and what you think would stop a progressive collapse after column 79 buckled. Then, show me the design details of the Deutsche Bank, so we can see (for real) if there are any differences. (Do feel free to ask any of Gage's "over 1000 architectural and engineering professionals" for help, but good luck with that -- nobody else seems to be able to get anything cogent out of them.)

One more thing that's been puzzling me: Can you please explain to me how someone might identify "pools of molten steel" by sight and distinguish them from, oh say, pools of molten aluminum or lead or copper? The reason I ask is that I would expect to find lots of molten aluminum in the debris, for example, given how much was used in the building and its low melting point, but gee, nobody seems to have seen any.

See, I'm having real difficulty understanding what you mean when you bandy about the term "scientific facts." You seem to be using a non-standard definition.

[SDuderstadt]

71. Dude...

I just figured this out. You're having a contest with Spooked, BeFree and others to see who can pack the most bullshit into one post. Congratulations, I believe you're winning.

Let me address some of your more colossally stupid claims:

It was the headquarters for the SEC, CIA, and other agencies

No. dude...the SEC is headquartered in Washington, D.C. and the CIA is headquartered in Langley, VA.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U.S._Securities_and_Exchange_Commission

https://www.cia.gov/about-cia/virtual-tour/virtual-tour-flash/flash-movie-text.html

The Deutsche Bank Building was damaged so badly in the attack, it is being demolished and has been so for several years.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deutsche_Bank_Building

Your claim that WTC was on fire for only a few hours is ludicrous on its face:

After the North Tower collapsed, some firefighters entered 7 World Trade Center to search the building. They attempted to extinguish small pockets of fire, but low water pressure hindered their efforts.<29> A massive fire burned into the afternoon on the 11th and 12th floors of 7 World Trade Center, the flames visible on the east side of the building.<30><31> During the afternoon, fire was also seen on floors 6–10, 13–14, 19–22, and 29–30.<4> In particular, the fires on floors 7 through 9 and 11 through 13 continued to burn out of control during the afternoon.<32> At approximately 2:00 p.m., firefighters noticed a bulge in the southwest corner of 7 World Trade Center between the 10th and 13th floors, a sign that the building was unstable and might collapse.<33> During the afternoon, firefighters also heard creaking sounds coming from the building.<34> Around 3:30 pm FDNY Chief Daniel Nigro decided to halt rescue operations, surface removal, and searches along the surface of the debris near 7 World Trade Center and evacuate the area due to concerns for the safety of personnel.<35> At 5:20:33 p.m. EDT on September 11, 2001, 7 World Trade Center started to collapse, with the crumble of the east mechanical penthouse, while at 5:21:10 p.m. EDT the entire building collapsed completely<1>. There were no casualties associated with the collapse.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WTC_7

Your claim about the "pools of molten steel" is so spectacularly stupid, it deserves no answer. And, with that, I'm not going to waste any more time on your goofy bullshit. Shame on me for even wasting time after your first bizarre post.