Huge financial motives behind 9/11? Interesting theory here.

[chimpymustgo]

Below is a comment to a Raw Story article about the engineers' call for a new 9/11 investigation yesterday. There are actually quite a few good ones (link below), with, of course the usual head-in-the-sanders who seem to spend a helluva lot of time attacking people who just want the truth (we have quite the crowd here). Anyway, I'm very interested in what some of you KNOWLEDGEABLE 9/11 THINKERS AND RESEARCHERS think about the ideas posited below:

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Posted by myth_slayer

I have long since refused to answer the nimrods, clowns and other professional illiterates who know nothing of the lengthy and varied history of conspiracy, nor the history of anything else, for that matter. So, for those interested in the well-researched facts and ever wish to follow up on the possibly the worst crime in human history (and it was a criminal heist), I present the following:


The five principal players: Office of the VP, Office of the SecDef, Blackstone Group, Veritas Capital and A.I.G.


Embezzled funds ($2.3 trillion, DoD, approx. $1.7 trillion, other federal agencies) were moved offshore, electronically, in the 12 to 16 preceding hours prior to the morning of 9/11/01.


They were moved by way of data transmission, on those computer systems within the two WTC towers and involving Deutsche Bank, Cantor Fitzgerald's TradeSpark operation and Marsh (a subsidiary of A.I.G.).


Those personnel unwittingly involved in this would never live to see the end of that day, so they could never meet to compare notes in the local lunch joint, nor come forward to report what had occurred.


Those monies would be moved to offshore hedge funds, which experienced a dramatic growth in the following year of 2002, and said funds would be laundered through the various major stock exchanges the world over.


Passengers aboard the four airliners involved that day would fall into three unique categories: (1) developers of remote piloting hardware/software , (2) those involved in the original creation of a counterterrorist simulation exercise, remarkably similar to what took place on 9/11/01 , and (3) several individuals directly involved with the investigation of Flight 800 .


None of these unwitting operations support personnel would live to come forward to expose what took place.


There were also three individuals -- one unwittingly directly involved -- the other two victims of convenience. One of the ladies would be the mistress of a senior (and extremely rightwing-oriented) partner, and married individual, of a law firm involved with successfully defending Fox News from lawsuits where they reported fictionalized news.


The other lady would be the well-insured wife number three of a Bush appointee, later to relatively quickly move on to wife number four.


The third individual, a physicist with the Directed Energy Section of the Naval Surface Weapons Center, would know of a planned "simulation" -- which would actually take place above the WTC. It was a duplicate of an intel ploy, created during the Strategic Defense Inititiave of the Reagan Administration, to fool the Soviet Union (involved pre-set pressure charges in a building, with an aircraft-carrying laser overhead, which appeared that the laser destroyed the building but actually simply altered the barometric pressure, setting off the explosives to destroy the building in a similar controlled-demolition manner).


Some financial angle background: Blackstone Group was involved with brokering the quickest, largest real estate deal in NYC history, which involved the leasing/selling of the World Trade Center. Blackstone Group would later be awarded the $1 billion captive insurance fund for the survivors of the victims at the World Trade Center.


A.I.G. invested a substantial amount with the Blackstone Group -- at least on paper -- a similar amount would be awarded to Silverstein Properties as an insurance payout.


While there was much made of those shorts and puts on airlines and some of the companies residing in those two towers, that went to accounts at Alex Brown, it is not well known that those transactions took place on computer systems within the two towers, and that Alex Brown was a subsidiary of Deutsche Bank at the time. (And to repeat, Marsh was a subsidiary of A.I.G. at that time, as well as A.I.G. possessing another crucial subsidiary, ILFC, the largest commercial aircraft leasing company.)


Veritas Capital, which owned Raytheon Aerospace (refer back to passenger breakdown), began heavy investment in "defense" industry just prior to 9/11/01, and owned, or would quickly purchase, DynCorp, a private military company quite financially successful from the soon-to-be Iraq War. DynCorp had a joint venture with another firm and this company, DynPort Vaccine Company, was located in Frederick, Md., right by Ft. Detrick, and contained the necessary apparatus for turn Anthrax samples into weapons-grade Anthrax.


I won't waste any of the more intelligent types by repeating various information about the backgrounds of the people involved with the Blackstone Group, Veritas Capital and A.I.G., but I would suggest any interested to research this, as well as the incredibly colossal number of military, federal and local exercises which took place that day.


And one must always look beyond the obvious: while it has been suggested numerous times that the NRO facility exercise near Dulles Airport -- planes flying into their ops buildings -- was meant to confuse with the real events of that day (and I'm not disputing that) -- it had the more pertinent consequence of evacuating the NRO ops center, thereby negating any opportunity to manually task recon satellites to take real-time photos of the airspace above NYC and the Pentagon.


So, the unwitting personnel involved with the transfer of embezzled funds died that day, as well as the destruction of computer systems where everything took place, as well as the unwitting operational support personnel aboard those four airliners.


And one couldn't expect the Pentagon to know what happened to that unaccounted for $2.3 trillion as, after all, their financial systems were located on the other side of the reinforced west wall which was destroyed that day.


And when one subtracts all the deaths involved of people who might have come foward, the total number involved was a low of 17 to a high number of 23 total.


And when one looks carefully at the news events over the next few years, a number of rather suspicious "suicides" occurred, along with a number of falling off the tops of buildings events, which may have lowered the total number of participants a bit.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/09/senator-engineers-911-controlled-demolitions/

[BeFree]

1. Kick

That is some interesting stuff. Some I'd heard before and a bunch new.

Thanks you durn anti-bushco DUer. <GRIN>

[Ohio Joe]

2. Speculation based on a complete lack of understanding on how financial systems work

I've built and maintained my fair share of financial systems, Ames Dept. Stores, Allmerica Financial and Nationwide Insurance.

"Embezzled funds ($2.3 trillion, DoD, approx. $1.7 trillion, other federal agencies) were moved offshore, electronically, in the 12 to 16 preceding hours prior to the morning of 9/11/01.


They were moved by way of data transmission, on those computer systems within the two WTC towers and involving Deutsche Bank, Cantor Fitzgerald's TradeSpark operation and Marsh (a subsidiary of A.I.G.)."

1) The databases money would have been transferred from would not have been at the same location as those who can transfer it.
2) I have no idea where this person came up with his numbers that were embezzled (would love to see a source) but amounts like that would need authorizations from many many people before they could be done. These people would almost certainly be scattered around many locations and all of them would be recorded as having done so.
3) "people" don't make the transfers. They enter a request for transfer into the system. Each one is logged into the database with the user ID and a time stamp. Authorization notification requests are sent out and logged. Notifications need to be done, when all are completed, requests go into a batch file for nightly processing, all requests are sorted and logic checked. They are then completed.
4) Exactly where the money was sent would also be recorded.
5) After each update to the database, every step of the way, copies are made and sent to data recovery databases at yet another location.

Everything after what I quoted is faulty because it is based on bad premise.

[BeFree]

3. heh

Pretty much no way to stop a computer hack.

A determined person can attack just about anything.

[Ohio Joe]

5. Still no reading comprehension, huh?

My post has nothing to do with hacks, it has to do with the way that financial systems work.

[BeFree]

7. Systems that can be hacked.

DOD systems are hacked all the time. So are banks' systems.

Your point is?

I guess you have built unhackable systems?

[Ohio Joe]

8. No, no system is un-hackable

Not even a closed system. The point is, that the OP is not about hacks, it is about unwitting assistance and the premise that all of the data was stored in the towers. Complete non-sense. The concept that all of this could have been done with "hacks" needs to be put forth to determine the chance it could be pulled off. Present your CT and I'll give my opinion on if it could be done or not. The government has some really good script kiddies but most of this is breaking into mainframes, not one but many different ones and RACF is not windows, manipulating CA-7/CA-11 is not tracking an IP, updating a database without leaving a trace while still maintaining back-up integrity across multiple mainframe back-up systems is not breaking into someones gmail account. Please, present your new theory.

[704wipes]

15. German and Swiss Banks mainframes do NOT use ca7-ca11

and probably not RACF either.
Once it has hopped over to those systems, bye-bye.

[Ohio Joe]

27. What difference does that make?

The suggestion was made that American mainframes were hacked, not Swiss or German.

[Kalun D]

19. So You Deny

that Rummy came out on 9-10-2001 and said

there's $Trillions of dollars just "missing" on the Pentagon books?

You're denying he said that? Really?

so if it's as you say, it's not possible then where did those $Trillions go to?

[SDuderstadt]

22. He didn't say it was "missing", dude....

If he did, provide a sourced quote.

This is just more of your goofy bullshit.

[Kalun D]

23. Generic Term

what did he say Sdude? Un-accounted for? Is it just an accounting "mistake"? LOLZ! A multi $Trillion dollar "mistake"

what do you think Sdude, that the government never lies, that military contractors never steal?

Oh hell no, Rummy is an honest man, just look at the paragon of virtue, the bush boy that appointed him.

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

[SDuderstadt]

24. Jesus, dude....

I have never seen anyone spread as much goofy bullshit as you:

http://www.911myths.com/html/rumsfeld__9_11_and__2_3_trilli.html

[Kalun D]

29. Look In The Mirror Sdude

You're the king, president, and CEO of goofy bullsh*t

from the article you posted, LOLZ!! (don't you hate it when your own link is used against you?)

""Now plainly the US Government saying this doesn't make it true, and we don't know what the real or current situation is.""

[SDuderstadt]

33. What about the article I posted...

dude?

Do you think adding all the "LOLZ" to your posts makes you credible?

[Kalun D]

35. LOLZ!!!

I quoted from the article, can't you read?

[SDuderstadt]

36. That isn't talking about what Rumsfeld actually said...

dude.

I linked to Rumsfeld's actual words. If you have a link to an actual quote where Rumsfeld said the money was "missing", please provide it.

Otherwise, this is simply more of your gameplaying, dude.

[Ohio Joe]

28. Not at all

I asked what the money was, it was not mentioned in the OP, just that it was missing. Assumeing that is the money the OP is talking about, first, it did not go missing in a single swipe the day before. Second, AIG would not have been able to transfer funds from the pentagons accounts. It still makes no sense and does not support the contentions of the OP and without that first step, the rest of the CT falls apart.

[deconstruct911]

9. Incorrect

1) I'll tell ya how it works:

AIG sales in 2000: 40.6 Billion

AIG sales in 2003: 69.9 Billion

2) http://archives.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/12/20/wtc.harddrives.idg/

"(IDG) -- A new data-recovery technique could help trace suspicious financial transactions made shortly before the terrorist attacks in the U.S. on September 11.

An unexplained surge in transactions was recorded prior to the attacks, leading to speculation that someone might have profited from previous knowledge of the terrorist plot by moving sums of money. But because the facilities of many financial companies processing the transactions were housed in New York's World Trade Center, destroyed in the blasts, it has until now been impossible to verify that suspicion"

Notice CNN, other respected news sources & Convar cite the FBI & or the SEC as a source for the investigation and reconstructed data.

https://www.convar.com/multimedia.htm?po=3&language=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-OClX54EFQ&feature=related


"X-File: World Trade Center

In Heute Journal, the ZDF news programme of 11 March 2002, there was a report on the recovery of data from hard disks from the World Trade Center in our modern Data Recovery Center at Pirmasens (Rheinland-Pfalz)."

Notice how the records WERE DESTROYED on 9/11.

since you are the financial expert maybe you know what the SEC and FBI don't? We would love to hear it all...

[Ohio Joe]

10. No, you are not thinking about what is going on

You are drawing a conclusion from one little bit of information without thinking about the whole picture.

"1) I'll tell ya how it works:

AIG sales in 2000: 40.6 Billion

AIG sales in 2003: 69.9 Billion"

And? What does this have to do with anything I posted? Elaborate please.

"2) http://archives.cnn.com/2001/TECH/industry/12/20/wtc.ha... /

"(IDG) -- A new data-recovery technique could help trace suspicious financial transactions made shortly before the terrorist attacks in the U.S. on September 11.

An unexplained surge in transactions was recorded prior to the attacks, leading to speculation that someone might have profited from previous knowledge of the terrorist plot by moving sums of money. But because the facilities of many financial companies processing the transactions were housed in New York's World Trade Center, destroyed in the blasts, it has until now been impossible to verify that suspicion"

Notice CNN, other respected news sources & Convar cite the FBI & or the SEC as a source for the investigation and reconstructed data."

And? How does this make me incorrect? The article is very incomplete but based on the recovery cost per drive, I would guess they are recovering IBM 3360 or 3390 drives for mainframes but regardless of the exact drive it is certainly a mainframe drive. To make sure everything adds up, the data must be traced and verified from beginning to end, otherwise it is not a very good investigation. If they only looked at the bank end of the transactions, it would not tell them if everything had been authorized properly. If they just take the authorizations from the back-up, people would wonder why they did not try to recover the original data. The article is only talking about the attempt to recover the original data, nothing is mentioned about back-up data or comparing it to the original data or back data or any other aspect of the investigation.

"
https://www.convar.com/multimedia.htm?po=3&language=1
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4-OClX54EFQ&feature=rela...


"X-File: World Trade Center

In Heute Journal, the ZDF news programme of 11 March 2002, there was a report on the recovery of data from hard disks from the World Trade Center in our modern Data Recovery Center at Pirmasens (Rheinland-Pfalz).""

This tells me nothing, I do not understand german or... whatever language it's in. All this does is confirm the company mentioned in the article first linked did indeed work on recovering the original data from the towers.

"Notice how the records WERE DESTROYED on 9/11."

Yes, the original transaction that were stored in the towers. What else would you expect?

"since you are the financial expert maybe you know what the SEC and FBI don't? We would love to hear it all..."

No, I am not a financial expert, I am a financial systems expert, big difference. What part do you still not understand? I will try to explain it.

[deconstruct911]

11. The thread is somewhat about AIG

so I highlighted the post 9/11 world for AIG. Look pretty darn good for an insurance company.

Also the OP discuses exactly what the Convar data is related to. There is one little thing I didn't mention although I have posted it many times before.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh3_wWmS6lk

[Ohio Joe]

12. And?

The video displays a combination of things... PC disk being recovered... maybe, I have no idea what they are doing as well as at the end, that is mainframe data being displayed, not PC data. Very heavily edited video that means nothing. The voice overs... Scraps put together from... what? who are they? Where is it from? It's meaningless without context or the rest of the conversation.

[deconstruct911]

13. You are extremely confused

& I doubt I can help you from this point on....

[SDuderstadt]

14. Dude...

you can't help anyone with your goofy bullshit.

[Ohio Joe]

16. I see...

You have explained nothing so far, just posted links that tell only a part of the story. So tell me, what is it I am confused about? Which part do I have wrong?

[deconstruct911]

17. OK

Then do yourself a favor and figure out what Zembla is.

Notice the sources include Reuters News Service, CNN, FOX and Convar itself on its website. Convar employees confirm the recovery of this data on video and later on audio. Reuters and CNN cite the FBI as a source. The Heute journal cites the SEC.

The links for all those news sources can be retrieved including what Convar released.

Don't you believe that if terrorists did it we would have heard about it? Don't you think that these news services and Convar would be the first to set the record straight if the data was false or incorrectly reported?

Would the SEC and FBI not release something? Anything? Would employees from Convar back up the story? Why?

[Ohio Joe]

18. ahh, now I see

I'm talking about how financial systems and data recovery work and your talking about why you don't have the details of what was recovered.

"Would the SEC and FBI not release something? Anything?"

As best I recall, it was determined that nothing illegal had happened so why should they release these companies private data?

"Would employees from Convar back up the story? Why?"

Convar would only be able to confirm if data had been retrieved. They would not have the ability to read the data in any meaningful way. They were also not doing any analysis of the data, it was simply being recovered and sent back. So since they did not even look at any of the data they could not say anything about what was recovered, only if it was recovered.

[deconstruct911]

25. Well not exactly...

http://press.convar.com/pdf/de/Presse_echo_17_12_2002.pdf

They had the ability to read the data, but they never said who they were working for specifically.....

[Ohio Joe]

26. Yes, exactly

From your own source:

"Citing Client privacy, Henschel declined to say which companies Convar is working for, or provide details about the data retrieved so far. But he said the raw material, up to 40 gigabytes per computer hard drive, is sent immediatly by satelite or courier back to New York."

Yes, they could read the data off the hard drives, that is what they were paid to do. But, most mainframe numeric data is not stored is a disply format, usualy in either comp-3 or comp format you can't read it just by looking at it. In addition, without knowing the layout of the data, you have no idea where fields begin or end or what the field contains. No where in that article does it say they had the ability to understand the data in any meaningful way and it specificly states it was return as soon as it was recovered, which means they did zero analysis of the data.

As for your new wish, to know who their client were, what difference would that make to you if you knew? What would that tell you? Nothing. They were not the only company doing this, as your article states. They are also dealing with sensitive compnay private data. The data belongs to the customers of the companies they were working for and would have sensitive information such as account numbers, balances, names, addresses, social security numbers, etc. Companies are bound to keep such data private by law. If no wrong doing was found, why should any of this information be released?

[deconstruct911]

30. "or provide details about the data retrieved so far"

And yet almost 5 years after the original reports they do.

And the clients are well known now. Richard Grove worked for SilverStream and had an office at Marsh which was the impact zone. He is still alive to give more details about his experiences.....

You cherry picked the news reports, press release, and video confirmation to form your conclusion. At the point when Convar didn't provide details on the data was when the investigation was still ongoing.

[Ohio Joe]

32. Do you know what cherry picking is?

It is when you use one small snippet out of context to back up a claim. Now... who used one small snippet out of context and who used the entire statement in context... lets see...

You completely ignore that the data was returned immediatly... right away...without delay. You also completely ignore they had no way of knowing what the data was in any meaningful way. You also completely ignore that no where in any of your links does it claim even remotely that Convar did anything but retrieval. You also ignore that they would be bound by law not to release any private information even if they did know it. How do you get around these things to expect that they could have or should have released anything?

[deconstruct911]

34. they didn't release anything specific about the data

they confirmed an unusually large sum of money was transfered illegally out of the world trade center just before the attack.

That is partially what the OP discuses.

On top of that the fbi, sec etc failed to note the regular trading volume on a day like that and how large of a surge was made on 9/11. Nor do they give an explanation for the surge.

Convar makes it abundantly clear the culprits thought the records would be destroyed in the attack.

That's it. That is what the reports come together to form. I'm not taking anything out of context.

[Ohio Joe]

37. Untrue, plus you are confusing things

"they confirmed an unusually large sum of money was transfered illegally out of the world trade center just before the attack."

Incorrect, go back and read your articles, they are recovering data because it was suspected/reported that large amounts of funds may have been moved. They were recovering data so that the truth might be found.

"On top of that the fbi, sec etc failed to note the regular trading volume on a day like that and how large of a surge was made on 9/11. Nor do they give an explanation for the surge."

Different issue, not the same thing at all, now your talking insider trading and not these suspected transfers.

"Convar makes it abundantly clear the culprits thought the records would be destroyed in the attack."

Also incorrect, they suspect that was the plan.

"That's it. That is what the reports come together to form. I'm not taking anything out of context."

Yes, you are until you address my questions in my previous post and show some proof. Revising what is in the articles does not do it.

[KDLarsen]

4. For the sake of FSM

Could people PLEASE start educating themselves a bit more on the story of the "missing" $2.3 trillion?

Here's the same $2.3 trillion "missing" in March 2000: http://hv.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fetch-msg.tcl?msg_id=002hxm

Here's the same $2.3 trillion "missing" in February 2001: http://www.pbs.org/newshour/bb/military/jan-june01/dollars_2-12.html

[Kalun D]

20. It's just a bookeeping "mistake"

nothing to see here, move along

[deconstruct911]

6. Kroll/AIG/Marsh did 9 11

listen to Richard Grove

Drdebugs 9/11 investigation here at DU

AIG is a front company for the CIA

watch "who killed john o'neil" !!!!-- lays out the charts on AIG

[Kalun D]

21. Another Thing To Note

When the WTC hardrives were recovered and sent to Europe to have the date extracted the company doing the work suddenly got bought out and we never heard about the hardrives again.

[deconstruct911]

31. Convar corporation: http://www.convar.de/

Convar, Zembla, 9/10/2006

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nh3_wWmS6lk