OK, I have a question re 911, please watch and answer

[didact]

I am not, nor have ever been, in the 911 was an inside job camp. I believe that this was too big of an event to pull off and keep covered up, period. But I just saw this video (which may have been posted before, who know?) and it has some really interesting facts.

Has anybody seen this one, has it been debunked?? Believe me, I'm not a 911 conspiracy shill.

http://www.veoh.com/browse/videos/category/educational/watch/v6371767GaC2SrTh

[SDuderstadt]

1. Yes, it's been debunked...

the "flash" when the plane hits the building is the result of kinetic energy. The "object" on the bottom of the plane is the fairing. It's where the wheels and landing gear are stored when they are retracted. If the lights and shadows had been different that day, you'd see the fairing on the other side of the plane. This is just another idiot who doesn't understand what he's looking at, leaps to conclusions and shoots his mouth off.

[OnTheOtherHand]

3. ROFL

Good edit there, SDuderstadt. :)

[SDuderstadt]

4. Stupid android phone...

I think I should probably turn the "auto-correct" feature off.

[OnTheOtherHand]

5. hey, the phone only seeks To Serve Man. ;) n/t

[Rosa Luxemburg]

31. where do you get your info from?

[SDuderstadt]

32. I know what kinetic energy is...

and I know what a fairing looks like.

[OnTheOtherHand]

2. umm, I watched a bit

Basically pod-plane stuff?

911myths.com links to various critiques of podstuff from various perspectives -- mostly from conspiracists who perceive the podstuff as a deliberate distraction from the real evidence (!).

FWIW, here is what Popular Mechanics had to say:

One of the clearest, most widely seen pictures of the doomed jet's undercarriage was taken by photographer Rob Howard and published in New York magazine and elsewhere (opening page). PM sent a digital scan of the original photo to Ronald Greeley, director of the Space Photography Laboratory at Arizona State University. Greeley is an expert at analyzing images to determine the shape and features of geological formations based on shadow and light effects. After studying the high-resolution image and comparing it to photos of a Boeing 767-200ER's undercarriage, Greeley dismissed the notion that the Howard photo reveals a "pod." In fact, the photo reveals only the Boeing's right fairing, a pronounced bulge that contains the landing gear. He concludes that sunlight glinting off the fairing gave it an exaggerated look. "Such a glint causes a blossoming (enlargement) on film," he writes in an e-mail to PM, "which tends to be amplified in digital versions of images—the pixels are saturated and tend to 'spill over' to adjacent pixels." When asked about pods attached to civilian aircraft, Fred E. Culick, professor of aeronautics at the California Institute of Technology, gave a blunter response: "That's bull. They're really stretching."

One might argue that the video (rather than the photo) is conclusive, but it sure doesn't seem like it to me. I bet if some people stared at the Hindenburg videos long enough, they'd start to see weird pods or missiles or whatever there too. Maybe they have. (I see there is some Hindenburg CT, but I don't have the heart to read it.)

[snooper2]

6. You know it's bullshit by the ba-ba ba-ba ba-ba ba-ba ba-ba

creepy "scary" music in the background...

These crackpots need to get a life

[didact]

7. Thanks for all the replies...

I didn't even notice the 'creepy' music! The 'bulge' on the bottom of the plane seemed like a stretch, but what I found interesting was the flash/explosion right before/at impact. I actually thought it may be from the speed of the aircraft and the compression as it nears the building, but wasn't sure of the physics...kinetic energy, hmm. Thanks.

[William Seger]

8. More specifically...

... some of the kinetic energy has been converted to heat very quickly by the impact and then the heated aluminum was shattered, so what we're probably seeing is a cloud of fine aluminum dust particles, burning rapidly.

(ETA: link: http://www.blazetech.com/Products___Services/Aircraft/Vaporific_Effects/vaporific_effects.html)

[mrarundale]

9. It's not so much that it has been "debunked"

but that only one view of the "second hit" was shown live (with a slight delay )and it is actually quite ridiculous looking. What was shown live is the only image that could be said to prove there was a plane.

The other "2nd plane" photos are of questionable authorship/validity since they all seem to show a different "plane" doing something that is impossible in (non-quantum) physics.

There was no live shot broadcast of a passenger plane hitting the north tower.
Notably, after the first explosion, only NYPD helicopters were allowed near the scene....

Photographic evidence is not very good, IMO, because a picture could be altered intentionally or distorted from putting it on the internet or outright falsified.

Sadly, when you try to obtain flight and passenger information from "that day" you run into a bit of a dead end, and the NTSB information shows no flight 11 and contradictory info on the other "flights" (of fancy)....also, the flight paths don't make any fucking sense....

Confusing? Well, "What's puzzling you is the nature of my game." Know what I'm saying?

[zappaman]

10. "Photographic evidence is not very good, IMO, because a picture could be altered intentionally"

And the hundreds of eye witnesses?
mass hypnosis perhaps?

[mrarundale]

11. Actually

if you watch the broadcast footage, very few witnesses (including several on-scene reporters) said they saw passenger jets. They saw missiles, small planes, stuff BEING BLOWN OUT OF THE BUILDING, but passengers jets? not so much......

It's quite densely populated down in that area you would think there would be many more reliable/verifiable (non actor) plane witnesses..from a distance I think it is hard to tell...there was the wife of a CNN producer...from several miles away....(from a teevee screen perhaps?)

[Make7]

12. Many people would consider the following people reliable/verifiable plane witnesses:

FIREFIGHTER SCOTT HOLOWACH

   At that time, I started walking towards Engine 3. Engine 3 drove south to the south pedestrian bridge to make a U turn to come back and as I'm walking towards the Engine to find out what Lieutenant Walsh wanted us to do, I heard the sound of a jet plane. I looked up and saw it pretty close and I was like holy shit. What's going on with the with the flight patterns. All of a sudden, the wings turned and it dove right into the building and it was screwed up.
   At that time Chief Ganci was behind me and he thought there was another explosion in the north tower and that's when I turned around and said Chief, listen, there is a second plane that hit the other tower. He was like no no no no, we have another explosion. I said no, Chief, I witnessed it. I watched the plane hit the other tower. He is like are you sure. I said Chief, I'm 100 hundred percent positive I watched the second plane hit the other tower.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110114.PDF

FIREFIGHTER STEPHEN ZASA

   Upon that time I heard a plane roar. I had my window down and on my side we saw a plane flying very low come right across us and with a loud, you know, the engines revved up, and I had mentioned to him, I had no idea that it was heading towards that way, and I just said like where is this guy going, you know, he was extremely low, not realizing it was another plane heading towards the World Trade, and we saw it struck the building, we saw a big mushroom of flame, of fire coming up, and it was like disbelief, and he had gotten on the radio and notified the dispatcher another plane had struck the World Trade Center.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110417.PDF

FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH CASALIGGI

   I left my rollup and my standpipe kit in the lobby. I went outside to the rig, changed the cylinder. While I was changing the cylinder, I was keeping an eye because the chauffeur was hooking up to the standpipe. I was keeping an eye, making sure he didn't get hit with anything.
   It was at that time when I saw the second plane hit the building. I called a mayday. I told them the second plane hit the south tower of the building. I wasn't sure which floors it was, but I knew it hit the upper floors of the south tower.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110430.PDF

FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH GALASSO

   After the first plane hit, we were here, actually. We could see the towers actually from here. So after the first plane hit, we saw it on the news. So we came up here to look out the window, and we saw it. We watched the second plane hit. Just as the second plane hit, that's when we received the alarm.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110322.PDF

PARAMEDIC KEVIN DARNOWSKI

   Right before the tolls on the Brooklyn side heading towards Manhattan at the Battery Tunnel, we were sitting in traffic and we watched United Flight 175 hit tower two, which was the south tower of the World Trade Center.
   At that time everybody was just in shock. The firefighters and I were just really trying to get through the traffic when the plane hit, and we were just standing there in like awe of what was happening.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110202.PDF

FIREFIGHTER JOSEPH SULLIVAN

   Okay. We responded from quarters. The ticket came in at 8:54. We were going on the first alarm to the staging area by the Brooklyn Battery Tunnel. En route to the staging area, we were going down Columbia Street, saw the second plane strike the building and we went from being a, quote, good job or a rough job, or we were going to earn our money today.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110286.PDF

EMT SEAN CUNNIFFE

   We were lined up on West Street, west side, right by the pedestrian bridge, between six and one, over here somewhere. I don't remember the supervisor's name, but they had us line up, put our stretchers and equipment on it. We were just waiting for further instruction.
   As we were waiting there, counting the people jumping, that's when we saw the scope of it. We counted 39 people. It was sad. That's when it stopped being exciting and reality kicked in and we were hanging out.
   The second plane came in. It was the biggest noise I ever heard in my life.

   Q. Did you see the plane?

   A. Yeah. We saw it, we heard it, we felt the heat from it, the debris. We ducked under a truck...

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110164.PDF

CHIEF OF THE DEPARTMENT DANIEL NIGRO (FDNY)

   At some point after our arrival and after we had moved to the west side of West Street, I heard a loud roar of a jet, looked up and saw the second plane impact the south tower. At that point it was clear to me it was a terrorist attack. Earlier I didn't know what it was. I assumed it was an accident.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110154.PDF

BATTALION CHIEF BRIAN O'FLAHERTY (FDNY)

   Just then out of the corner of my eye, I could see this plane. I just remember the dark. It was in the shadow. It looked low. I thought, "What the heck is the guy doing?" I watched it, watched him turn and crash right into the south tower. Right away I knew it was terrorism or terrorists. I didn't know what the first one was, but I knew what the second one was.

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110431.PDF

EMS CAPTAIN MARK STONE

We got in the truck, listening to reports coming in on Citywide and we ended up taking the Battery Park Tunnel underneath to come up on the West Street side of the incident. We came up right out of the tunnel. I was looking up to see if I could do a little more initial size up. That is when I saw the second plane hit the building. I just watched it coming in.
   I see that the plane hit and I'm really thinking for the safety of the members that we got operating already ...

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/packages/pdf/nyregion/20050812_WTC_GRAPHIC/9110076.PDF

[mrarundale]

13. Just noticed your post. Read the entire Holowach interview

He says he saw a plane hit on the television at the station. So how could he have seen the second one in person AND before that on tv since the first plane was NOT TELEVISED until later...

"Most people" would think that was impossible

I'll look at the other ones, I usually find something...

[SDuderstadt]

14. More of your bullshit...

Holowach does not say, as you claim, that he saw a plane hit on the television at the station. He states, "we noticed that one of the planes had struck the towers". He is not speaking contemporaneously and news reports of the first crash were reporting it had been struck by a plane. You changed "noticed" to "saw" to make it sound like Holowach is saying something he isn't. You also don't address where he states he was onsite and directly witnessed the second plane hit the tower.

More ironic dishonesty from the "truth community".

[mrarundale]

15. what is my other "bullshit"?

None of the interviews add up.

[SDuderstadt]

17. You just answered your own question...

dude.

"none of the interviews add up".

FDNY lost 300+ of their brethren that day. If any entity would be compelled to show it was an "inside job" with "fake planes", they would. Instead, a number of them provide substantiation for the essence of the "official story". Your "refutation" is to mumble that the "interviews don't add up". In the short time you've been here, you've managed to, not only, establish yourself as one of the most absurd posters, your bullshit is patently offensive to those who lost their lives that day along with their families.

You should be thoroughly ashamed of yourself, but I rather doubt that you are, dude.

[mrarundale]

19. Here's your bullshit. Ladder 12 is on W 20th Street

the events were not televised until about 8:50 (and a plane's involvement was not mentioned until after that, but whatever)..so that means he got down there and parked and was walking around in less than 10 minutes, since the second "incident" was at 9:03. IMPOSSIBLE.
If you really cared about the people who died then you would want to know what really occurred. Your attempt to inject emotionalism is, well, what you guy's do all the time...while pretending to be "logical".

The other accounts are equally flawed. On one, the guys name is spelled two different ways. Another saw the plane overhead from the middle of Brooklyn.

[SDuderstadt]

20. How would the guy's name being spelled...

two different ways possibly have some material bearing on what he said?

Beyond that, do you honestly believe a viewer seeing a plane-shaped outline in the exterior of a building can't deduce it was a plane that hit it? And, does "overhead" only mean directly overhead?

Why do you think no one takes you seriously here.

P.S. the plural of guy is not "guy's".

[mrarundale]

24. It reflects on the credibility of the subject matter

by suggesting sloppiness in the importance placed on factual information.

[SDuderstadt]

26. Or, it could just be a simple mistake by the....

transcriptionist, dude. Do you have any substantive refutation of their accounts?

[Make7]

29. You guys embrace "witnesses" when they say what you want, ....

... when they don't you look for ways of explaining that away...

[LARED]

16. I know exactly what you're saying

My only suggestion is to seek a high quality mental health professional.

[mrarundale]

18. I'm sure you can recommend one

although I don't think it would be someone who was very effective.

[LARED]

27. No planers are a hoot. Never give up.

The entertaiment value is priceless.

[SDuderstadt]

28. They are almost as entertaining as...

the "we're THIS close to busting the JFK assassination wide open!" brigade.

[mrarundale]

21. Back to the OP. The video he uses is fake

and it was "televised" by, I believe, CNN. The building in front is way too tall and the tower too short. Check it out for yourself. The video is what is ABSURD.

[SDuderstadt]

22. Why don't any video experts...

agree with you, dude?

You're just grasping at straw's (spoofing your spelling style).

[mrarundale]

23. Make 7 "made" his above post before here,Sdud

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x155041

scroll down and watch these guys get decimated by Seat9B. Gee, I wonder why Make 7 left off the "photographic evidence" this time? Cuz you guys know it's fake.

(An apostophe is punctuation, not spelling, btw.)

[SDuderstadt]

25. When you use punctuation when none is needed...

that renders it a spelling problem as well.

I love this...you think seatin9B is some sort of expert. I'd respond but I'm laughing too hard.

[SDuderstadt]

30. How ironic...

You misspelled apostrophe.

Too funny.

[mcollins]

33. after today's adventures, I think the question need to be asked, again.

There are two paths of reason;

1) 9/11 was an inside job, planned and executed by ??? for ??? reason.

2) No it wasn't.


if 1) is true, then the events of 10/29/10 are an inside job, planned and executed by ______ (fill in blank) for _________ (fill in blank again, please


or;


2) Dammit- they almost pulled it off, again.




your thoughts?