Boxcutters vs ceramic guns

[Jetboy]

Boxcutters just aren't very intimidating and it would've made more sense for the hijackers to use ceramic guns. I think that if it were all a conspiracy, they would've set it up with more plausible weapons like ceramic guns.

On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that dozens of people would let hijackers control a plane because they had such menacing weapons as boxcutters.

The only thing I know for sure, is that I don't know.

[KDLarsen]

1. Uh huh..

You do realise that on each flight, with the exception of AA77 (though we can't be certain of that, it just wasn't mentioned in any of the calls from that flight), they killed a passenger or crew member in full view of the rest of the passengers, to show that they weren't to be messed with?

And that prior to 9/11, the safest way to survive a hijacking was to wait for the plane to land, let the hijacker(s) to make his/their demands known, and the just slog it out until you were either released or the airplane was stormed.

[Jetboy]

2. It seems to me that passengers on more than one of the flights

knew they were not going to just land.

[benEzra]

3. Flight 93, yes. The others didn't have that information until it was too late. (n/t)

[Ter]

10. I would have told them "Try me"

As I walked up to them.

[KDLarsen]

15. Ooooh, an internet tough guy

Sure you would, right up to the point where they slashed your throat.

[Ter]

17. Kind of hard to slash a throat with a boxcutter

Unless your neck is exposed and up or you are held down. No one would ever want to fight anyone with a boxcutter, don't get me wrong. I would run on the street, because win or lose, you're gonna get cut. But in the plane situation, it is what I was taught to be a CODE RED situation. That means you're gonna die if you don't act, so by any means necessary do your best and try.

[SDuderstadt]

19. Duh....

http://articles.cnn.com/2004-01-27/us/911.commis.knife_1_hijackers-utility-knives-large-knives?_s=PM:US

[Ter]

21. That makes sense

I always suspected it was more than boxcutters. Finally something you admit may not have been what we were told? :)

[SDuderstadt]

22. Excuse me?

How were we not "told"? It's right there in black and white, dude.

Does it make sense to you that in a crime in which both the victims and the perps are essentially obliterated, that we might not have the luxury of knowing everything to the degree of detail we'd like?
There's still time for you to enroll in critical thinking classes, Mr. "I wouldn't be afraid of no damn boxcutters".

[benEzra]

4. There is no such thing as a ceramic gun (except in fiction)...

and seeing someone brutally murdered in front of you with a razor knife would be terribly intimidating, I'd think.

[Ter]

11. No

With a box cutter, you would have to be stabbed dozens and dozens of times in order to be killed, and it could take 5 minutes or more. No one jumped in for help? BS.

[zappaman]

12. or

it could take one or two stabs/slices if you were trained properly....like the hijackers were.
you ever hear of the cartoid artery?
hit that and blood would spray everywhere.
maybe you would jump in cuz you're so brave, but most passengers, especially in 2001 when we were told to not do anything and let the hijackers take us where they were going, would probably be too frightened and/or shocked to do anything.

[Ter]

13. Boxcutters extend a half an inch

I have one in my junk draw. You would have to jam that in the neck with tremendous force and no resistance to sever jugular with one or two stabs. These guys were trained my ass. Maybe a Navy Seal can do it, but these guys couldn't. Al Quida isn't SEAL status. They aren't even equal to regular Army grunts. Pretty sure I would have been able to take any of the alleged hijackers out. They may have killed me with a boxcutter, but it would have been 50-100 stabs, and would have taken 5 minutes. And that's without any help. Guaranteed people would rush.

I'm not trying to act like a jerk, but I have extensive training in martial arts and the military, and know about short range weapons. Now, I'm not saying it was an inside job. But maybe they covered it up because they didn't want to let us know that their security sucked and they slipped by the scanners with weapons like these:

[zappaman]

16. well, I guess

it's too bad you weren't on any of those planes that day, tough guy.

[Ter]

18. I'm not a tough guy at all

I just access every situation. Al Quida with boxcutters just doesn't phase me much. Now, if they had the above knife pictured then I know I'd be doomed.

[terrafirma]

5. Always amusing

to see people play armchair heroics on an internet forum.

"I WOULDN'T BE SCARED OF NO STUPID BOX CUTTER!!"

All the hijackers needed to do was to display a threat to the rest of the passengers. Real or not, I can't imagine they'd want to be firing any type of gun inside the cabin as they would be risking a blown out window or loss in cabin pressure with a misfire that would more than likely jeopoardize their mission.

But you should seek out James Fetzer. He's all about combating box cutters with carry on luggage.

[Jetboy]

6. I just remember seeing a show a long time ago about how

terrorists were getting powerful ceramic guns and how it could be a threat to air travel. I feel that if 911 was a big conspiracy, then the ceramic guns would've been more believable. It takes an extra person to hold a victim in order to swiftly kill with a boxcutter. If a plane full of passenger knew they were going down, then I find it unlikely that they wouldn't try to overpower the hijackers. It just takes a good bit of time to kill someone one on one with a boxcutter.

I don't understand how we supposedly know all of these things that happen on these flights, but the people on board had no idea what their fate is. Seems like handi info to relay.

[ryan_cats]

7. You make at least two errors.

1) The closest the normal person can get to anything resembling a ceramic gun is a Glock which has a steel barrel as well as metal internal pieces.
2) How many people have you killed with a boxcutter? All they had to do was grab anyone from behind like a stewardess. Since they didn't expect to get killed, it was probably pretty easy. I don't know but I bet they were trained not to resist. Then, all they needed to do was pull the blade across their throat.

[Jetboy]

8. Like I said, I saw a show about ceramic guns and that is why

I feel that they would've been more believable to me than boxcutters.

You cannot kill a person with a boxcutter quickly without help or by surprise. Now if they really had no idea about other planes that day, then I can understand them hoping for a safe landing and release.

[terrafirma]

9. You assume

that we knew everything right off the bat, as events were unfolding.

That is incorrect. The passengers did not know, at the time the hijackers were taking over, that their fate was going to end inside a building. It's already been pointed out that hijackings in the past never ended the way they did on 9/11.

And if you remember, there were at least 4 hijackers per plane. Could easily have one hold a passenger while another slits their throat.

Also, the passengers on Flight 93 DID try to overpower the hijackers after finding out more information on what their fate would be.

So I'm not quite sure why you're having trouble understanding the situation.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

14. there was no proof there were boxcutters

[scrinmaster]

20. A magic wand would be even easier, and just as real as a ceramic gun.

People wouldn't really fight back because until then, if a plane was hijacked you just rode it out, the hijackers typically wanted money or prisoners released or some other demands that typically didn't result in the death of everyone on the plane.