Architects Question 9/11 Richard Gage - Video

[Stanchetalarooni]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LOHiDCbn3I

The entire world needs to see this video

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1LOHiDCbn3I

[LARED]

1. This is almost as exciting as the first dozen times this silliness

was posted.

[zappaman]

2. first dozen?

we must be well into triple digits by now with this bullshit.
woof.

[Stanchetalarooni]

3. Still barking.

1,478 verified architectural and engineering professionals and 11,690 other supporters
have signed the petition demanding of Congress
a truly independent investigation.

[LARED]

4. Gage has nothing on Satan

34% of adults in North America believe Satan to be a living being with supernatural powers.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/chr_sat1.htm

[zappaman]

5. or angels

Half of all Americans believe they are protected by guardian angels, one-fifth say they’ve heard God speak to them, one-quarter say they have witnessed miraculous healings, 16 percent say they’ve received one and 8 percent say they pray in tongues, according to a survey released Thursday by Baylor University.

So, more people believe in angels and satan than people that think the government blew up the WTC.
Fitting...

[Stanchetalarooni]

6. Woof.

You guys never actually discuss issues head on or provide constructive input, generally avoiding citation of references or credentials. Rather, you merely imply this, that, and the other. Virtually everything about your presentation implies your authority and expert knowledge in the matter without any further justification for credibility as when you cry "bullshit".
Some authority.

[LARED]

7. I know you are late to the game.

and think this worthy of serious discussion, but the reality is the silliness you post has been discussed at length ad nauseum. The only great mystery about the towers destruction is how long the CT'ers will pump out sophistic nonsense.

[OnTheOtherHand]

8. yeah, no

I've seen some amazingly specific discussions here. From you, I haven't seen much more than copy and paste.

The OP took, what, about 15 seconds to prepare? Do you expect someone to spend a few hours debunking the video?

[zappaman]

9. Bow wow

You think what you posted is news?
You think no one has ever encountered this bullshit before?
Hilarious!
Post something of substance and maybe you will get a reply with substance.
Until then...
:rofl:

[ryan_cats]

10. Ah, the smell of a newly minted truther.

Ah, the smell of a newly minted truther.

It would behoove you to go through the archives. There, not only will you find answers, you'll also see that this exact video had been posted time and time again.

I've been asking this for a long time but is there anyone, anyone at all that can point me to the buildings Gage has designed? One or two would be nice.

[upi402]

61. Gage was involved in a lot of fireproof steel buildings

He was an AIA architect for decades. Many architects spend careers never designing a highrise with their name on it - yet do the actual design work on many of them. Seems silly to debase rational questions with that weak bit of character detraction. The question you're nor asking is; why wasn't the biggest crime scene in history - treated as a crime scene at all. Why was the scrap rushed out of country to China?

Just seems naive to trust what happened then at this point, and the TV "News" propaganda around the period is a known fact to most. Worth a good look IMHO based on new info. I used to think it was a bogus theory too. Not now.

Consider me newly minted :tinfoilhat: I guess. The firefighter interviews cinched it for me and I never knew those even existed until last month.

[SDuderstadt]

62. Jesus...

Here we go again.

It WAS treated as a crime scene. Google PENTTBOM. Then Google Fresh Kills landfill and you'll see the exhaustive screening that was done on literally every scrap of debris from the site. Then Google NCSTAR 1-3B Steel Inventory and you'll see the large quantity of structural steel that was preserved from the site. By the way, rather than be "quickly shipped off to China", the last piece of structural steel was not removed from the site until months later.

Simple question: why do newly-minted "truthers" fail to do the most basic of background research before joining the cause?

Better question: why do newly-minted "truthers" make false statements of fact without bothering to fact-check them? "Cinched", indeed.

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/history/famous-cases/9-11-investigation

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fresh_Kills_Landfill

[upi402]

63. Thanks for the links

You're 100% right. I have a ton of research to do. I only have what the TV News fed me, for the most part.

[SDuderstadt]

68. BTW...

can you explain what a "fireproof steel building" is?

[upi402]

72. lol

intimately

[SDuderstadt]

73. Then...

please do so.

[ryan_cats]

69. Really, name one

I'd like to see one highrise where he designed the structural part. So, you're saying he's got the same skill set as say, Leslie Robinson?

Thee question I'm not asking is one that has been answered time and time and time again.

What, let me guess, you saw "Loose Change" and now you're an expert truther; is that it?

The worse part is that you hold up Gage as some kind of expert.

If you saw his pathetic performance on Hardfire(sp?) where he had three cardboard boxes. One box was supposed to represent the damaged top part of one of the WTCs. The other box was supposed to represent the part of the WTC below the impact point. The last box was supposed to represent the top part of the WTC before collapse. Utilizing this amazing modeling technique, he dropped the small cardboard box on the second cardboard box which was supposed to represent the lower part of the WTC. Guess what, the small box didn't do any damage to the WTC model. I guess that might matter if the WTC was made of CARDBOARD. Pathetic is what Gage is and his followers aren't too far behind.

Watch your hero in all his glory:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DFVoencqfZw

Who needs computer models when we've got cardboard.

[Swampguana]

11. If all of you non-truther's don't like it

don't watch it or pay attention. you guys all complain about hearing the same thing over and over again what are you trying to obtain? Clearly you can't change the opinion of truther's and your opinion is set so give it a rest. Personally nothing wrong with a private investigation, maybe it'll prove you non-truthers right or vice versa.

[SDuderstadt]

12. Yeah...

it's only been nearly ten years.

[zappaman]

13. "non-truthers"

Hilarious!
I prefer "reality-based, rational person" myself...

[Swampguana]

14. how about "willingly ignorant"?

"Close minded"? Meh I like "Non-thruther"

[SDuderstadt]

15. Dude...

accusing someone who insists on concrete evidence before embracing goofy conspiracy theory bullshit of being "closed-minded" just made my irony meter blow up.

Too funny.

[Swampguana]

16. I can see why you would think that

Close minded is believing everything you're told rather than using critical thinking and realizing your "concrete evidence" doesn't add up.

[SDuderstadt]

17. Dude...

Why don't you get this on the plane of your so-called" facts and quit questioning the motivation and/or character of those who disagree with you.

We "just believe everything we're told"? Bullshit.

[Swampguana]

18. What facts?

I never stated facts? I simply stated a private investigation should be done (not government) and that you "non-thruthers" should give it a rest on those who disagree with your "concrete facts". Your the one who thought it was funny with my "Close minded" comment. If you don't somewhat question what happened, then yeah I think you believe everything your told on this issue.

[SDuderstadt]

19. Dude...

it's been nearly ten years. How do you know I didn't have questions initially?

9/11 has been investigated exhaustively. When you can demonstrate where it's wrong, perhaps people might take up your cause.

[Swampguana]

20. uhhh

well this video shows people are taking up this cause. I merely support them while you are set in what you believe. Nothing wrong with where we both stand.

[zappaman]

21. And who would you trust to run this investigation?

And what was not answered in the investigations that have already occurred.
I guess I am a "non-truther" because I don't believe every bit of bullshit(which this most certainly is) that I find on the internet.

[Swampguana]

24. I would trust

An investigation done by an outside group. Such as Architects from another country.
Yeah you are a "non-truther" because you don't question the results of NIST and laugh at those who do.

[SDuderstadt]

26. Dude...

do you understand the limits of architects when it comes to engineering issues?

[Swampguana]

29. Simply stating an outside

non biased group would be more effective.

[SDuderstadt]

32. How was NIST...

ASCE, Purdue and the 9/11 Commission "biased", dude?

Do tell.

[Swampguana]

33. How are they unbiased?

Why would any organization/people/government in this country want to believe that somehow this was done by one of it's own?

[SDuderstadt]

36. Dude...

I asked you how they are biased. Begging the question isn't an answer.

[Swampguana]

41. To defend their Country

is the answer, use your thoughts in understanding what I wrote. Why would anyone or organization in the USA want to reveal the truth to the rest of the world if the truth was some organization within the US pulled this off.

[SDuderstadt]

42. Do you really think any of those entities would...

cover up for the Bush administration? Do you have any idea of the multitudes of people involved in those investigation?

[Swampguana]

47. Absolutely

Do you think there's a chance your wrong?

[SDuderstadt]

54. Dude...

hundreds, if not thousands, just chose to go along with the Bush administration? Not one person would blow the whistle?

You are impugning the integrity of some very well respected people, dude.

Do you even know who Mete Sozen is?

[upi402]

64. Absolutely

Here you are shown to be willfully naive. Just discredited what I previously had thought to be a valid poster.
Sorry. Of this, I am experienced and do know what I'm talking about. Steel ductility, fireproofing scraping-area and burn-rates - not so much.

[SDuderstadt]

65. Unintentional irony...

You think I'M willfully naive?

Please explain how an organization like ASCE would (or could) cover-up for the Bush administration. None of their 125K+ members would notice? Please.

[upi402]

66. Doesn't seem valid to me

ASCE typically calcs dead and live load, shear, etc. Not in their purview to design for this event. A report from selected members can not represent all members.
http://cedb.asce.org/cgi/WWWdisplay.cgi?145971
Would you claim 125K members have full information AND have signed on to the 9-11 commission report? I would appreciate your time if you have a link handy, sincerely.

And yes, under Bush a huge cover up is very imaginable but any investigation is still "off the table" as we "move forward" with the same general paradigm.

[SDuderstadt]

67. Like the JFK assassination...

9/11 was one of the most exhaustively investigated crimes in history.

As far as ASCE is concerned, why has there not been a sizable upswell from that organization? Why are they not saying, "hey...something is wrong here"?

Your confirmation bias is showing.

[zappaman]

27. Like what?

What results should I be questioning?
Have you thought that maybe the results makes sense to most people, but you have a problem understanding them?

[Swampguana]

31. Really?

A building would fall at free falling speed because of fire? Or that there was large amounts of thermite found in the dust? Or that steel melted from jet fuel? I don't buy it, to me What Richard Gage says makes a lot more sense.

[zappaman]

34. yes, really

1. "A building would fall at free falling speed because of fire?"
In every photo and every video, you can see columns far outpacing the collapse of the building. Not only are the columns falling faster than the building but they are also falling faster than the debris cloud which is ALSO falling faster than the building. This proves the buildings fell well below free fall speed. That is, unless the beams had a rocket pointed to the ground.
http://www.debunking911.com/freefall.htm

2. "Or that there was large amounts of thermite found in the dust?"
How much do you think it would take to burn a massive core column? Then add enough to burn for 6 weeks! You'd need tons.
http://www.debunking911.com/thermite.htm

3. "Or that steel melted from jet fuel?"
http://www.debunking911.com/moltensteel.htm

This is just a starter.
Maybe you should do a little investigating of your own...

[Swampguana]

37. Predictable response

You "non-truthers" are ridiculous. Do you even understand what I am saying? I don't trust any of those reports so using those as your "evidence" is useless in trying to influence me. Why do you care that I don't believe what you do?

[zappaman]

38. so, it's a matter of faith with you?

Got it.
I'll stick with facts and you go with faith.

[Swampguana]

43. I wouldn't

call common sense faith. I would call believing without thinking more like religion.

[SDuderstadt]

45. "Commonsense" doesn't trump...

science dude.

[Swampguana]

49. Ignorance willingly ignorant

[SDuderstadt]

55. Says the guy who claimed I...

"attacked" him.

[zappaman]

46. wow

You do realize you are describing your own actions?
Too funny!
Have faith...it's better than science.

[Swampguana]

51. Enjoy your pride

because all I am doing is egging you on to see how many times you fools will respond

[SDuderstadt]

40. Give us a reason not to...

"trust" those reports other than your silly "genetic fallacy".

Do you even know who Bazant, Greening, Sozen or Mackey are?

[Swampguana]

44. I don't want to change your opinion

I am defending mine because you are doing what you do best, attacking those who appose you.

[zappaman]

48. No one is opposing anyone.

You've been given links to help you understand something that you clearly don't understand.
Not our fault if you choose to believe what you want to believe in the face of demonstrable facts...

[SDuderstadt]

50. You are not being "attacked"...

dude. You are being confronted with facts you cannot refute and being asked questions you cannot answer.

Please point to anywhere that I "attacked" you. Take your time.

[Name removed]

52. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[SDuderstadt]

56. Then point to where I...

"attacked" you. That should be easy.

[Swampguana]

57. okay

You don't directly attack with insulting words more with condescending pompous sentences and responses. The way you write makes you come off as someone who thinks they are better because you believe the stated facts and others don't.

[SDuderstadt]

58. Huh?

Those aren't "attacks", dude.

You owe me an apology.

[Swampguana]

74. I owe you nothing

[SDuderstadt]

75. If you're not going to apologize for...

falsely accusing me of "attacking" you, did you come here merely to pick a fight?

[Swampguana]

76. I never said attacking me

I said "those who appose you"

[SDuderstadt]

78. A distinction without a...

difference, dude.

And you did in your deleted post.

[Swampguana]

79. Sure

If you say so DUDE. You still don't deserve an apology.

[SDuderstadt]

81. Yes, I do...

but you're just here to fight. Got it.

[Swampguana]

83. Just standing up for myself

Just like you are. you don't deserve anything for being called out on how you are.

[SDuderstadt]

85. If you don't like vigorous debate...

perhaps you should try something less taxing.

In the meantime, please show me where I have ever "attacked" anyone. Take your time.

[Swampguana]

86. No debating here

more fighting over who gets the last word. You can have it.

You also answered your "attacks" in the same message.

[zappaman]

59. "you believe the stated facts and others don't."

LOL!
Believing in facts is bad???
Wow.

[Swampguana]

77. never said it was bad just pointing out the difference

[zappaman]

80. the difference between what?

facts and bullshit?

[Swampguana]

84. bullshit facts and bullshit

[AZCat]

60. Don't you think it would be useful...

to be at least aware of the claims made by those reports before you disparage them? Just because you don't trust them doesn't mean they don't have value. Besides - without reading them for yourself, how can you trust someone else's interpretation of them? Why do you trust Richard Gage more than, say, Shyam Sunder?

[SDuderstadt]

35. Jesus...

1. No building fell at "free falling speed" (for the record, there is no such thing...it's freefall acceleration)
2. No one except Gage and company allege the presence of thermite.
3. The steel didn't melt, nor did it have to for the floors to give way.

It's simply ironic that you accuse us of being "willingly ignorant" and "believing what we're told", when you're doing precisely that.

[SDuderstadt]

22. If there is nothing wring with where we both stand...

then why keep accusing us of "believing what we're told"?

[Swampguana]

23. there's nothing wrong with believing what your told

and I am not accusing I am simply stating the fact

[SDuderstadt]

25. Yes, you are...

dude. You're accusing people of just accepting things uncritically.

The problem is that "debunkers" and the "official story" have far more facts on their side. "Truthers" are stuck with clowns like Jesse Ventura, Richard Gage, David Ray Griffin and the "Loose Change" brigade.

I rest my case.

[Swampguana]

28. It sounds like you are

accepting uncritically. Once again accepting the "facts" because you're told thats what they are. When it really doesn't take much critical thought to see where they're full of it.

[zappaman]

30. No it doesn't.

It says there is a preponderance of evidence that points to the conclusion and make sense when eyed critically.
What facts do you disagree with?

[SDuderstadt]

39. Then provide that "critical thought"...

It's obvious that several here have a far better command of the facts, issues and theories than you do.

[Swampguana]

53. thanks that was fun

hahahaha bye

[ryan_cats]

70. It could be that people see Gage traveling the world on ignorant truther's dimes.

It could be that people see Gage traveling the world on ignorant truther's dimes.

If people put their time into getting an education, they could be an MD now, an attorney or even... a structural engineer which would then make your opinion worth listening too although I've heard nonsense from a few who are truly out there like TZ.

[ryan_cats]

71. 1. If all of you truther's don't like it

don't watch it or pay attention. you guys all complain about hearing the same thing over and over again what are you trying to obtain? Clearly you can't change the opinion of rational thinkers and your opinion is set so truthers, give it a rest. Personally nothing wrong with a private investigation, maybe it'll prove reality based thinkers right.

[Stanchetalarooni]

82. MIHOP

[zappaman]

87. MUBOPTMAP

making up bullshit on purpose to make a profit.