A pilot's strange encounter with Mohammed Atta at Boston Airport

[Woody Box]

...She stated as she was standing near the entrance to the jetway, in the passenger lounge, a male individual comes up to her suddenly and asks if she is going to take this plane out, referring to the flight she just brought in. She said no and he abruptly turned and went and sat down. She thought that was extremely rude. Her first impression was that he was a pilot going to fly in the jump seat. While he wasn't in uniform, he may have been wearing a pilot type shirt, open collar. She thought he may have had a rolling pilot flight kit or bag with him, which she described as black vinyl, round top, and incredibly cheap. Again she could not recall anything else, only at that time wanting to get to the hotel and sleep. She said she was so tired, when she got to her hotel room she crashed in bed, in her uniform. She woke up about one p.m. and then found out about the terrorist attacks. She said for the longest time she wasn't even sure that she was dreaming it all, until she saw photographs of the hijackers in the news, she was instantly sure that the indivdual she saw that morning was the suspected hijacker, Mohammed Atta. She added that when she first saw the pictures of the hijackers in the new media, it was like an electric shock when she saw the picture of Atta...

http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/2011/04/pilots-strange-encounter-with-atta-at.html

[William Seger]

1. I hearby coin the phrase "put everything in a woody box''

... which means, when you find two different accounts of the same event, always assume that both are true.

[Woody Box]

2. Your creation will certainly be a common saying for generations to come...

but...excuse me...in which way is your contribution related to the original post?

Which is the "same event" you're talking about? Certainly the strange encounter thematized by me, okay. But I have only one account for this event, Lynn Howland's one. Have you got another one, a different one? :shrug:

By the way William - I'm interested in your opinion. In my blog, I described Lynn Howland's recollections as "detailed, credible and intriguing": do you agree with me?

Two days later I was driving my car in at night in the rain and my thoughts were drifting to the horrible loss. I suddenly had a memory of a man approaching me and asking me if I was taking the flight out. I was stunned. Did this really happen? I thought about it some more and remembered Mohammed Atta approaching me and asking me if I was taking flight 11 out. I said "No, I just brought the aircraft in." He turned his back and abruptly walked away and I was a little annoyed with his rudeness but as it was 0400 body clock time I let it go and told myself that people are rude everyday.

This would have been between 0700 and 0720 EST. I think he was wearing a white pilot type or oxford shirt, no tie and blue pilot type slacks. I am unsure about the shirt but perhaps that was what the man he sat down next to was wearing. I also remember him having a really cheap pilot bag. The vinyl one with a rounded top with black plastic squares at the corners.

I spent 2 days trying to decide of this was a true memory and decided it was. I have decided to share this because I felt it was my civic duty.

[defendandprotect]

3. Didn't American Airlines confirm there was no Flight #11 on 9/11 ... ???

[KDLarsen]

4. No. n/t

[William Seger]

5. I was referring to the two different times for Atta's arrival at Logan

... and your "conclusion" that there must have been two Attas. This follows a pattern you have well established (e.g. "confirming" that there were multiple flights with the same numbers), hence my suggestion that this particular logical fallacy should bear your handle as a tribute.

The only reason I can see why you find Howland's recollections "intriguing" is that if you assume they and the BTS database are both accurate, then there were multiple Attas, for some mysterious reason. Obviously, that's a lot more fun than first suspecting that either or both of the claimed arrival times are inaccurate. Personally, I'd find it much more "intriguing" if you could actually fit multiple flight numbers and multiple Attas into a coherent and plausible scenario, since I'm having a really hard time doing that on my own. If you made is sound plausible enough, then it might be worth the effort to try to determine if your data is indeed accurate. Short of that, then I'm afraid the most plausible explanation in this case is that if the BTS time is accurate, then either Howland's perception of the time, at the time, or her later recollection of it is faulty -- assuming, that is, that her perception that it was Atta is actually accurate. Less likely, but certainly still plausible, it that Howland is correct and the BTS database is wrong -- assuming, that is, that you haven't simply misread or misinterpreted it. Compared to those possibilities, "multiple Attas" doesn't even register on my plausibility meter, much less follow as a "conclusion."

[Woody Box]

6. UPDATE: Was Mohamed Atta being employed by American Airlines?

"Graney advised that later when she saw Atta's picture on the news, she believed she had seen him before. She thought he may have tried to jump seat once with USAIR, and he was in uniform using an American Airlines pilot identification. She believed that this happened within the last six months."

http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/2011/05/was-mohamed-atta-being-employed-by.html

Compare this to Lynn Howland's Atta:

"I think he was wearing a white pilot type or oxford shirt, no tie and blue pilot type slacks. I am unsure about the shirt but perhaps that was what the man he sat down next to was wearing. I also remember him having a really cheap pilot bag. The vinyl one with a rounded top with black plastic squares at the corners."

It looks like Atta tried repeatedly, dressed as an American Airlines pilot, to achieve a jump seat and thus get access to the cockpit of a certain flight. But the 9/11 Commission doesn't care.

[SDuderstadt]

7. Jesus, Woody...

Maybe you should study the limitations of human memory.

Look at the first quote and note how tentative it is. Then study the concept of "convergence of evidence".

[Woody Box]

8. This was an FBI interview, man

:spank:

May I ask you to show a little bit more respect for Diane Graney and her alleged "limitations"? Your post is close to an offense.

Do we have any reason to believe that Mrs. Graney didn't carefully weigh her words in a situation 11 days after the attacks when her recollections were most welcome, regardless if she was 100% sure or not?

Put Diane Graney's and Lynn Howland's statement together, and you have an instructive answer to the question how the "hijackers" got access to the cockpit: they were sitting inside the cockpit from start, on the jump seats.

The FBI and the 9/11 Commission should at least have investigated the jump seat matter. They didn't.

[SDuderstadt]

9. Dude...

the passenger manifest shows where the hijackers were sitting. Duh.

[KDLarsen]

10. Erh, Woody..

you're getting into "Mohammad Atta was involved in 9/11" territory here.

Btw, it was not unusual for regular members of the public to sit in the jumpseat. I did it frequently on various Airbus types (A300 and A320) as a kid and teenager going on holiday, and I know several adults who did the same. All you had to do was ask politely. Usually the pilots were happy to have some company up front, especially on the longer sectors where they spent long periods of time at cruise altitude.

Also, Tony Amos' story seems to change depending on who he was talking to. He told the Washington Post: "He pulled out a wad of cash and put it on the bar table and said, 'There is no money issue. I am an airline pilot.' " No mention of being an American Airlines pilot.

[Rosa Luxemburg]

11. there were no hijackers

[zappaman]

12. damn those pilots!

traitors!

[Behind the Aegis]

13. Are you serious?