Please read

[Lithos]

Please be aware of the following:

- The 9-11 Forum, like all of DU's forums, is dedicated to a peaceful and respectful discussion. Do not engage in personal attacks or ad-hominem commentary. The heart of this is DU's rules for civility. Follow this.

- People come to the 9-11 forum for a variety of personal reasons. The vast majority of discussions here will likely NOT change anyone's beliefs concerning 9-11. Fundamental disagreement is the norm. Understand this.

- There are many beliefs and theories which are highly controversial and outside of the mainstream. Disagreement or acceptance does not make one either deliberate disruptor or provocateur. Accept this.

- Many groups have used 9-11 to pursue very bigoted agendas. A notorious example is where anti-Semites claimed Jews were foretold of 9-11 and stayed home as a result. Remember this.

- 9-11 is an emotional issue. While it is okay to be critical of the administration's actions and policies before and after, it is not okay to belittle the common people who died on that day and the many more who died as a result of policies implemented. Honor this.

If you think someone is deliberately trying to be disruptive or engaging in personal attacks, then you are to use the alert system. You are not to respond in kind. However, alerting on someone because they disagree with you is not a productive use of this system.

Lithos
9-11 Forum Moderator
Democratic Underground

[MercutioATC]

1. Thanks.

That needed to be said.

[fornoffj]

75. I agree

I agree.

[DulceDecorum]

2. I totally agree

The 9-11 Forum, like all of DU's forums, is dedicated to a peaceful and respectful discussion. Do not engage in personal attacks or ad-hominem commentary.
<snip>
If you think someone is deliberately trying to be disruptive or engaging in personal attacks, then you are to use the alert system. You are not to respond in kind.

These are the rules that ALL of us should live by.
And now,
let us go and indulge ourselves in some PEACEFUL and RESPECTFUL discussion.

[The Magistrate]

3. A Timely Reminder, Mr. Lithos

"Never attribute to malice what stupidity will suffice to explain."

[Christophera]

27. Stupidity = Stupor = Trance = Unconscious Compulsion

Just like malice.

[Radio_Lady]

39. Thank you for that quote, Magistrate.

I shall certainly remember it:

"Never attribute to malice what stupidity will suffice to explain."

[Name removed]

46. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spooked911]

4. Yes-- well said. And thanks for this amazing forum.

I know it is risky for DU to have this here, but we very much appreciate it.

[Name removed]

5. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

6. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[jimfromthebronx10469]

7. READ THIS..

go to cooperativeresearch.org. read the "timeline of terror" paul thompson. after you read some of the documented stories you'll see where the fbi confirmed what i said.
i'm not anti-jew since i was disturbed by the holocast. millions of innocent people killed for their religious beliefs. however we live in a new and dangerous world brought on by our asshole president.here is a man in charge of america's safety and what did he do? failed us miserablly.can GEORGE W. BUSH claim ignorance of the facts leading up to 911? after you read the timeline ask yourself why didnt bush alert the faa or the flying public? i say bush wanted war,any fucking war so long as it cranked up america's mighty military.our defense contractors were starving from the war-less years of bill clinton.
think back to sept.14 2001 bush was in new york city viewing the carnage a warning might have prevented.he said"i dont know who crashed these commercial jets into the wtc. but i will find out hunt them down and kill them". bush should have told americans then he was warned by teenet on aug 31,aug 25,aug 18 and the famous aug.6 pdb.
as for jews being involved i doubt it but nevertheless 4 jews were across the hudson video-taping the crashes as they happened.they had foreknowledge as well as 12 other countries who reached out to washington with warnings but bush wanted sept.11 to go off as scheduled. thanks jftb...:mad: :mad: :crazy: :crazy: :crazy: :dem:

[Lithos]

8. I would like to ask you a question

Explain 9/11 - Who, what, where and why.

[nomatrix]

9. Lithos, may I ask you why you locked the

Sott Forbes thread?
After 1 year, a person posting as Scott Forbes said he does exist and does work for the company stated and knew of a power-down. I thought it was insulting that so many people claimed the email and the author were a fraud.
I simply contacted those who worked security in WTC and they stated it happened about 3 times a year. The way some carried on.......

Why, are there so many arguments about what happened?

What is on the record continually presents evidence of the most unspeakable betrayal.

Threads like this, have a pattern. The thread creator will add to the nightmare scenerio. Three or four posters will follow up with what they consider "expert" logic. "I work in this field, etc."
This one, got demeaning, called a fraud.

The person who was called a fraud, posted with email verification, 1 year later.

The difference of that year got too confusing for some, and the thread got locked and, eventually, it will fade out.

There are many liberties given in this forum to the "experts". I believe they have a place. I do believe, when someone does come forward, to clear up their reputation the forum moderators should let that person have a fighting chance.

[Lithos]

10. Nomatrix

The thread was from mid-2004 and had gone many months without a reply. With the exception of your post, the new posts dealt with another member's post count which is against DU policy.

If you wish to revisit this story, then you are free to post a new thread.

[nomatrix]

11. Lithos, check post #73

from Scott Forbes March 2, 2005, which is neither my post or another members post count comment, against DU policy.

No, I do not wish to revisit the story. I just thought this related to THIS thread YOU started about being "kind to others".

Fairplay, in my opinion includes a person signing on only to validate their existence and statements. What say you?

[Lithos]

12. He can do that

However, the majority of new posts were about what I described. But also, as I said, you can start a new thread and you can reference the locked one.

The subject matter of the thread or whether or not Scott Forbes was there are considered acceptable subjects to talk about. (However, realize that Scott Forbes is considered a DU member now, so while he is a "celebrity" (relative), he does still have protection as a DU member.) For instance,you can discuss what he has done publicly, but you can in no way discuss his private life or attack him as a poster here on DU.

Lithos
September 11 Forum Moderator
Democratic Underground.

[Name removed]

13. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Griffy]

14. Perhaps you can explain why I cant nominate 911 stories...

so far as I've seen, these are the only threads I have found like this.. you can nominate fart threads in the lounge, but I couldnt nominate the C-span2 broadcast link... farts ok.. C-span isnt?.. I am confused and am literaly panicing alittle... I have been looking to DU and Progressive radio for hope since Nov2. and I heard on Ed Schultz about the damage to the pentagon was not a plane (caller). The the truth must be pursued, and only open investigating will help... in fact we NEED open minded skeptics to help shake the lies from the truth! I know we mostly agree on the election fraud, yet the truth of 9-11 is still fuzzy... you gotta admit these guys are hiding something.. they are all about lies. Its Orwellian and its scaring me..

[Name removed]

15. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Lithos]

16. You should ask Skinner

I cannot answer official questions like this.

You can get their contact information here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/contact.html

[NotNInch]

17. I cannot find my post ?

Posted at 12:54 PM today, 7/14/05. Why?

Yes, it shows up if I click on "my-posts" or search for it, but why isn't it chronologically with the rest of the posts?

Has to be a beginner issue.

[Lithos]

18. Threads shuffle up and down...

Depending on when they last had new response/post in them.

In this case, the last response was at 4:25 PM (Central time, I think it would be 5:25 PM your time) and is the 7th one down (at this time).

So, the newest and most active threads are going to be at the top.

L-

[Informed Citizen]

19. More than 48 hours?

Hello,

I'm new here, and I like the structure and openness of this forum. But I would like to register my only complaint. I don't assume this will change by my recommedation, but is there any way that 'My Posts' could be expanded to four or five days instead of 48 hours. It seems quite inconvenient that I can't keep track of my posts for more than two days. If this isn't ever going to change, can you tell me why this period of time is so small? Thanks.

- I.C.

[Lithos]

20. I understand your point

But I am not in a position to do much about it. The people who make this decision are DU's admin staff. Elad is the programmer, but I think the primary decision maker would be Skinner.

You can reach them at: [e-mail]

Lithos

[John Doe II]

21. Archive

Lithos, why did DU change polictics?
As far as I recall the archived threads of 911 always could be activated again. Now they are locked. Moreover the archive isn't accessible. Therefore a huge loss of information every day.
Why is that?

[Lithos]

22. That is a bug

Not anything that was purposefully done.

L-

[John Doe II]

23. Archive II

Dear Lithos,

why are ther only 10 pages of 911 forum left and all threads from page 11 to 20 are in the archive which one can't open anymore?
There are several threads I which to continue but I can't even find them using a search engine (which of course already requires that one knows the exact title of the thread).
The loss of information is enormous.

[Lithos]

24. John Doe

There is a problem with this particular archive. I've notified the Admins about it so they are aware. Frankly they have been extremely busy handling the increased load and issues resulting from the fallout over Katrina and have not had time to fix it.

I will remind them again, but it may be several more days before they can get around to it.

L-

[Roachman]

25. Can I quote Bush?

"- Many groups have used 9-11 to pursue very bigoted agendas. A notorious example is where anti-Semites claimed Jews were foretold of 9-11 and stayed home as a result. Remember this."

Does this mean I can't quote Bush who used 9-11 to start a bigoted war?

Damn!:shrug:

[Christophera]

26. ad hominem definition

2 entries found for ad hominem.


ad hom·i·nem     P   Pronunciation Key  (hm-nm, -nm)
adj.
Appealing to personal considerations rather than to logic or reason: Debaters should avoid ad hominem arguments that question their opponents' motives.



ad homi·nem adv.
Usage Note: As the principal meaning of the preposition ad suggests, the homo of ad hominem was originally the person to whom an argument was addressed, not its subject. The phrase denoted an argument designed to appeal to the listener's emotions rather than to reason, as in the sentence The Republicans' evocation of pity for the small farmer struggling to maintain his property is a purely ad hominem argument for reducing inheritance taxes. This usage appears to be waning; only 37 percent of the Usage Panel finds this sentence acceptable. The phrase now chiefly describes an argument based on the failings of an adversary rather than on the merits of the case: Ad hominem attacks on one's opponent are a tried-and-true strategy for people who have a case that is weak. Ninety percent of the Panel finds this sentence acceptable. The expression now also has a looser use in referring to any personal attack, whether or not it is part of an argument, as in It isn't in the best interests of the nation for the press to attack him in this personal, ad hominem way. This use is acceptable to 65 percent of the Panel. ·Ad hominem has also recently acquired a use as a noun denoting personal attacks, as in “Notwithstanding all the ad hominem, Gingrich insists that he and Panetta can work together” (Washington Post). This usage may raise some eyebrows, though it appears to be gaining ground in journalistic style. ·A modern coinage patterned on ad hominem is ad feminam, as in “Its treatment of Nabokov and its ad feminam attack on his wife Vera often border on character assassination” (Simon Karlinsky). Though some would argue that this neologism is unnecessary because the Latin word homo refers to humans generically, rather than to the male sex, in some contexts ad feminam has a more specific meaning than ad hominem, being used to describe attacks on women as women or because they are women, as in “Their recourse... to ad feminam attacks evidences the chilly climate for women's leadership on campus” (Donna M. Riley).

[Lithos]

28. The Romans

Were not the most egalitarian of societies...

L-

[frankly_fedup2]

29. Yeah, they were really into "group" activities that had both male and

female included.

[theSaiGirl]

34. The Romans .... the original "New World Order"

(or maybe that was Babylon ?)

In any case, we are living in times of a a huge global traffic in human beings, the post-modern equivalent of the old Atlantic and Indian Ocean slave trade.
Especially trafficking in sex slavery, using young women and boys from poor and suffering economies. Children are trafficked in as well.

Unfortunately, the Middle East seems to be thick with this kind of exploitation and profiteering from human misery.
It's not just in Saudi Arabia or the Gulf sheikdoms either .. it appears the brothel trade in young girls has moved in big-time in Israel.
Most of the exploited girls are from Russia, Ukraine and Eastern Europe.
It's a serious enough problem that you can read about it in the Israeli media (Ha'artz, Ma'ariv, Yehdiot Arhanot) and see it dealt with in excellent films like The Holy Land.
But it would appear that some elements in the Israeli establishment are not bothered by the anti-semitism this might stoke in Eastern Europe and Russia. They evidently feel that would force more Jews to emigrate out of those areas and into Israel.
(This sentiment was hinted at by Sharon about two years ago, when he responded to the growth of anti-semitism in France, by seriously urging all French Jews to leave for Israel.)
Obviously, Israeli politicians are subject to the same pathologies that infect our own. They will manipulate any tragedy to advance one or another parochial agenda.
Meanwhile, the suffering and explotiation persist and worsen.
Just one more way that corporate globalization (neo-slavery and human traffic) has proven to be a disaster for the planet.
What a tragedy for civilized people to allow this kind of cruelty.

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Kevin Fenton]

31. Could I ask

why the thread "Palestinian Spy Chief Killed in Amman Blast, Israelis evacuated hours befo" has been locked?

You write:
"Subject (Israel) is not appropriate for this forum per DU guidelines."
Could you let me know which specific guideline says Israel is not an approriate topic of discussion?

While I can see that some threads on some topics, including Israel, deserve to be locked, I would like to point out that:
(1) Tim Howells linked to the mainstream media: the Sydney Morning Herald and an Israeli newspaper, Haaretz. I'm sure neither of these have anti-Israeli agendas.
(2) Tim Howell's position is not that all Israelis are bad or that everything Israel does is bad, but that, due to the cirsumstances in which the state of Israel arose, some sections of the state apparatus there have sometimes engaged in actions which were, in a word, deceitful. The counter-argument is, of course, that they're no worse than anybody else.
(3) By locking the thread you have deprived me and everybody else of refuting the half-cocked arguments Tim Howells advanced, for example I would like to have pointed out that, according to the original article, the Israelis were evacuated by Jordanian security forces (why would "Jordanian security forces" evacuate just the Israelis, leaving all other nationalities to get bombed? - it makes no sense) and that the original article says that "the Foreign Ministry stated Wednesday that no Israeli tourists are known to have been injured in the blasts" which is false, as some Israelis were killed.
(4) Stifling all or much discussion of Israel may be counterproductive in the end.

I appreciate that you feel obliged to lock some threads, but I would urge you to take a more balanced approach where possible.

[Lithos]

32. Answer

DU has a special forum purely for I/P topics such as these. All such items which fall into this realm must be posted there - the only exceptions are certain specially late breaking and note worthy news items which are allowed in the LBN forum.

Lithos

[seatnineb]

33. Good and bad people exist everywhere in this world.... Israel included.

[Name removed]

61. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[gracie76]

35. latest 9/11 news

On my MSNBC search engine I saw a posting about the families/loved ones of 9/11 victims being awarded the right and given the opportunity to listen to the tapes of calls to the 9-1-1 /emergency operators. the families won a court case to get the right to hear the tapes of these 9/11 (and also 9-1-1 communications). The voices of the callers are redacted on the tapes that will become or have become public (may play on MSNBC), however at least one of the callers was identified and his family allowed his call to be played/heard. If you can get to this MSNBC release, you will hear of the instructions given to those who call in...."just get out of the building", or - on the other hand, "just sit tight", and then some were told to ascend, to get to the roof, as the operators believed that they were to be rescued from there. Very moving, and -- it's about time.
Philip J. Berg, Esquire, who is the attorney for plaintiff, William Rodrigues -- in another and different case, has his web site for those who want to hear what is going on with the investigations into 9/11 events... it is www.911forthetruth.com. Mr. Berg is of the firm belief that it is more than just a case of LIHOP....more like MIHOP. His case Civil Case No. 04-4952 has been transferred to the Southern District of New York and is now waiting the judge's decision on whether to dismiss or not. The plaintiff, William Rodriguez, is suing the defendants, GEORGE HERBERT WALKER BUSH, et al. This is the case where the plaintiff, according to the papers filed, "....is not seeking damages for death or physical injury as a result of the September 11 airline crashes.....He is suing the defendants in their individual, not their official capacities, for RICO and other violations related to a wide-ranging conspiracy, extending back for decades and occurring at many locations besides the World Trade Center." IF ANY OF YOU ON DU SHOULD WISH TO CONTRIBUTE ANY FUNDS TO KEEP THIS SUIT ALIVE AND ASSIST WITH ON-GOING INVESTIGATION, YOU MAY DO SO AT THE ATTORNEY'S WEB SITE, OR BY CONTACTING MR BERG DIRECTLY AT 1-800-993-7445, or by snail mail at his business address which is Philip J. Berg, Esquire, Attorney for Plaintiff, William Rodriguez, 706 Ridge Pike, Lafayette Hill, PA 19444-1711. (business phone [phone]).
The case was originally filed in the United States District Court For The Eastern District of Pennsylvania, but has now been transferred to the Southern District of New York.
I hope this posting is not against our DU rules; if it is, just dump it...but you/we have been rather active in this quest for the truth about 9/11...and I thought you would like to know this, if you don't already---as you are usually hours if not days ahead of me !!

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Grateful for Hope]

36. Quick question

Does civility apply to this forum as per the following definition?

Civility: Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum.

Thanks in advance.

[Lithos]

37. Yes

Please alert when you feel this has been violated.

BTW, a rule of thumb is when the expression "you are ..." or it's equivalent is in play. Commenting negatively on the message is generally not considered a personal attack. There are exceptions of course, so this is why I stated it's a rule of thumb. If in doubt, alert.

L-

[Grateful for Hope]

38. Thank you, Lithos

I will keep this in mind with my own posts also.

:-)

[BeFree]

79. Thank you, Mods

[glitch]

40. Good post. Insults actually detract from the insulter's argument.nt

[FoxOnTheRun]

41. What lead to the creation of the 911 forum on DU?

[Lithos]

42. It was an spin off of the General Discussion Forum

Much like what happened to Katrina and a place to discuss the events during and immediately following the events of 9/11. It has obviously shifted focus and has a different audience than at that time.

Lithos
DU Moderator

[mirandapriestly]

43. Is Prison Planet allowed as a link in the 9-11 forum? eom

[Lithos]

44. Depends on the article

And the author/source.

L-

[mirandapriestly]

45. steve watson

I looked through the entire list of his articles and found nothing offensive. I can see no valid reason why to not allow a link to his articles. The one I had linked a month or so ago was on the faked bin laden tapes. It was deleted and I asked why and was told that Prison Planet was not allowed , but since then I have seen several threads using PP articles. The article would be very threatening to those who do not want the appearance of impropriety regarding 9-11, and the ones' that are "allowed" were benign. I think, probably, "someone" alerted on my article and claimed the author was "anti-semitic" (absolutely untrue) or something like that.

[dlaliberte]

68. how does it depend?

Could you be more specific about this? Are you looking for links on the destination page to objectionable material? Or is it just the content of the page itself?

Does it depend on the author of the article? I would hope it doesn't depend on the author of the message making the reference. Why would it depend on the author? Are some people objectionable, not just what they might say elsewhere?

The deletion policy page is not specific about these issues, and we need more guidance. If there is another place to discuss it, please let us know.

Please don't delete this message just because I might ask questions you don't want to answer.

[Lithos]

69. There is no way an exact list can be provided

The syndication and publishing (repackaging too) of content is way too easy on the Internet. Sites come and go. There is ABSOLUTELY NO way for us to to keep up with all of the sites which seem to endorse bigoted material. And even if we tried, we would have people try and explicitly game the system where they would find a site that we were unaware of.

So, we instead have put the onus on you to know exactly who and where you are referencing content. The general guidelines are that you are responsible for knowing exactly who you are quoting and try to understand any agenda, and context this person or group may have. This is nothing different than what is generally expected from academic discussion.

Even so, we have given some suggestions. If you find a site of yours has links or references content from groups or individuals whose names come up frequently, or are linked to those sites and individuals listed by hatedirectory.org, the Southern Poverty Law, or the ADL, then you quite possibly are looking at bad content.


Lithos
DU Moderator

[dlaliberte]

70. Even an approximate list would be better than none

Thanks for the reply.

But due to the ambiguity of the situation, in many cases, don't you think it is unfair to delete a message with NO notice given before or after the fact, and no copy of the deleted content made available so we can fix the link?

There may be cases where the entire message is bigoted, and a reference to bigoted support doesn't help the situation. Deleting it as you do now might be best. But that is not what we are dealing with here.

You could make it MUCH easier for us by listing those sites that you do, in fact, know about and use to make your relatively quick decision to delete a message. That should cover 95% of the problems.

If you could change the software, please just hide the offending message so no one else can see it.

[Klimmer]

48. Lithos, If you have a problem with someone's post . . .

then why not delete only the offending portion and then also say why, and what rule we broke according to your understanding? Why delete the entire post? What was wrong with the two posts I made today regarding what the 9-11 Forum should do concerning the 3 columns I suggested? 1) WHAT WE KNOW 2) Scientific Hypotheses 3) Unscientific Hypotheses

I sure would like to know what the problem is.

[Lithos]

49. The whole post is deleted

Because Skinner does not want people to be accused of changing the meaning of the post by selective editing.

If you have a question about why a particular post is deleted, please PM myself or Undergroundrailroad.

Lithos
DU Moderator

[Lithos]

53. Several reasons

1) I would immediately be charged with editing/altering/changing someone's meaning
2) It would make it harder for us to remember who posted what and what was removed. Please note that this is a database driven forum, deletion does not mean deletion of a file, but rather the marking of the post as "deleted" in a database. This preserves it in case there is need to refer to it later.

Lithos
DU Moderator

[defendandprotect]

62. An old but excellent point . . .. remove offending post. . .. don't lock entire thread ---

[Bonobo]

50. Could you explain why JFK theories go here? Please?

[Lithos]

51. See my comment here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=134741&mesg_id=135705

[Bonobo]

52. Thank you, but I believe that is largely irrelevant.

My point is that by combining these additional "chemtrail-like" conspiracy theories...or even well founded theories on other subjects... you DILUTE the credibility of EVERYTHING ON THE FORUM.

Why would I believe or read seriously anything on a forum like this.

I REPEAT THE MAIN QUESTION;

If this is the 9/11 forum, why do you continue to allow non 9/11 issues. Every other forum follows rules for posting on topic. Do you really disagree with my comment about diluting and undermining serious discussion? You sound like a good reasonable person...

[Lithos]

54. The 9/11 Forum

My point is that by combining these additional "chemtrail-like" conspiracy theories...or even well founded theories on other subjects... you DILUTE the credibility of EVERYTHING ON THE FORUM.

There is an old expression among designers that form follows function. Given the actions, ideas and motivations promoted by the members of this forum, the mixture of such topics is hardly a novel nor a far reaching idea. In fact, it is an extremely RARE 9/11 source, especially those used here, that does not also include mention to one or more other conspiracies on it's site. Often these very conspiracies are offered up as examples of proof of the motivation of the people behind 9/11 (or 9/11 is offered up as yet another wrinkle to their own favored conspiracy theory).

So, DU is given the choice to either bar almost all 9/11 discussions or allow most 9/11 discussions with the recognition that a fair amount of it is heavily tied to other speculative pieces in some form or fashion. Given the amount of energy which would be needed to do the former, the latter is what was done with the price being that speculative theories end up here as well because they are linked as well.

If this is a problem, you are welcome and encouraged to contact DU Administration directly. But, given the many year precedence for the reasons cited above, I do not anticipate any changes in DU policy in the near term.

Lithos
DU Moderator

[defendandprotect]

63. Chem-trails are reality -- the Senate has legislation on it -- Kucinich worked on it for 8+ years!!!

It's about weather modification -- presumably Global Warming -- !!!!

[barbtries]

55. ok, after a long time

i finally learned what the BFEE is, and what LIHOP and MIHOP mean, but DU as always sports a shorthand i don't understand.

what is OCT????!!!!


thank you

[Lithos]

56. I believe that answer is...

Official Conspiracy Theory as stated by the US government. Of course the meaning differs from user to user.

The absolute definition that is used implies someone in lockstep with the Bush Administration's version of events and acceptance of their non-culpability. It is usually said with derision and an implication such a person is conservative and/or shilling for the Bush Administration.

It is also sometimes (again derisively) applied to those who believe in what are the core elements of the 9/11 theory, namely that 19 Islamic extremists did board the planes resulting in the loss of the WTC and damage to the Pentagon. Doesn't matter if they feel that there are other elements that are being held back (resulting in something that disagrees with the Bush Administration version) such as failure of intelligence, possible shoot-down of the flight 93 over Shanksville, etc. Course there is the flipside where some count those who believe in these types of conspiratorial coverup elements as being a part of the CT crowd; including some who then use that number to justify popular support for even more conspiratorial theories such as those surrounding MIHOP.

[JackRiddler]

57. I do have a question about off-topic abstract threads...

The OPs that are general treatments about scientific method, skepticism, etc., in each case trying to insinuate superiority of the posters' logic (in other threads) without empirically treating 9/11 or any potentially related concrete historical event. These are both condescending and off-topic. One might respond with a slew of counter-threads with abstract discussions of the authoritarian personality or why people believe their government even when it's lying, etc. etc.

Such citations are appropriate as responses to other material making claims one way or another about empirical facts, but as OPs I see them as flamewar by other means.

If these could at least be limited, so we don't have multiples clogging the top of the board at the same time...

[Lithos]

58. Yes and no

It's their theory about why the various theories of 9/11 and relevent. However, If it gets to be directed at an individual or group of individuals and done in an obviously personal manner, then yes that is a different issue.

L-

[greyl]

59. Those threads stand on their own - they indicate nothing about superiority anywhere else, nor do

they argue for any particular side of the 9/11 debate. They're a "let the chips fall where they may" encouragement for critical thinking.

The idea is that the truth has little chance of hiding from people who are equipped with the tools of critical thinking, and that false claims have little chance of being believed by the same. Rather than being flamebait, they're a call to agree on a few 9/11 neutral and Progressive ground rules about how to use our brains.

Too bad you think that encouraging people to think critically is opposed to your goals here.
It's perfectly in line with mine.

[Jim Warren]

60. :-)

[Name removed]

64. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Diane_nyc]

65. Could you PLEASE create a separate forum for miscellaneous controversial claims?

... rather than dumping totally off-topic threads about chemtrails, crop circles, UFO's, ESP, etc. here in the 9/11 forum?

It is EXTREMELY annoying that the 9/11 forum is being used as the general dumping ground. WHY is the 9/11 forum being used that way?

[Lithos]

66. Skinner controls this

But in the past the answer has been that Skinner feels much of what is discussed for 9/11 is no different in nature than the list you provided. Given that the list you provided has been linked to 9/11 via NWO theories by people here in this forum it really becomes one and the same. Rather than have two forums to deal with, we have one.

Lithos
DU Moderator

[Name removed]

67. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

71. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

72. Deleted message

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[JuniperLea]

73. Why is name calling allowed in this forum? eom

[Lithos]

74. It is not

Please hit the alert button when you see it.

Lithos
DU Moderator

[Name removed]

76. Deleted message

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[dbt]

77. Civility?

Reckon I missed that.

Bigoted agendas? Everywhere you look.

Disruptive? You MUST be kidding.

What about that DU Rule about sidetracking discussions? When will The Rules apply here?

[dbt]

81. Crickets

Better than a year later. Reckon I have my non-answer.

:evilgrin:

[YougeneDebs]

78. This is YougeneDebs

checking in. I've been doing some research (for about 2 yrs) into the terrorist activities now known as '9/11'.

I've been trying to keep an open mind and follow the evidence.

Thanks for providing a forum.

Debs

[BeFree]

80. Thanks, Mods

Tough job you have. I know I would have a hard time being judicious.

The recent Solomon like measure, I hope, will be a success.

[Name removed]

82. Deleted message

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[errrrrrrrrrm]

83. hi

how do I post a new thread?

[Name removed]

84. Deleted message

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[errrrrrrrrrm]

85. 1

1

[errrrrrrrrrm]

86. 2

2

[Lunabelle]

87. Read and understood.

[jberryhill]

88. Lol, I just noticed the "please read" sticky

Btw, Lithos, my pay was miscalculated from my post count last quarter. Do I report that to you or someone else?

[Lithos]

89. You have two options

I can help you, but you have to fill out the form and print it to /dev/null, make sure to use whiteout to fix any mistakes on the screen. The other option is to take it up with management.