Z film alteration: Greer head turn-- how many frames?

[spooked911]

http://www.clintbradford.com/zapr-1.htm

(In) Noel Twyman's book, BLOODY TREASON...

"There is conclusive evidence, based on the impossibly rapid head and shoulder motion of Secret Service Agent William Greer, that the film has been forged (altered) by removal of frames from the film in at least two locations: between frames 302 and 303 and frames 316 and 317.

Please look at the new MPI Home Video yourselves. Greer's head turn begins at Frame 301 and lasts until frame 306. It is fluid. It is reasonable. It is believable. It does NOT occur in 1/18th of a second. All of Groden's copies of the Zapruder film show the same, believable head movement, too. "

Does anyone know where I can see these extra Z film frames on-line? I can't find them.

Thanks!

[SDuderstadt]

1. LOL!

"Well, what is your evidence?"

"It's the impossibly rapid movement of the head and shoulders of the Secret Service agent"

I think Spooked may be close to blowing the lid off this thing.

[spooked911]

2. You should read the Twyman book then

thanks

[SDuderstadt]

3. You should read...

"Reclaiming History".

You're welcome.

[spooked911]

4. why?

it's easy to refute any conspiracy you want, if you don't mind stringing together a lot of improbabilities.

The easiest thing in the world is to ignore critical evidence and write stuff that supports the official narrative.

[LARED]

5. You just broke my irony meter. nt

[zappaman]

6. finally!

now that's a truly funny post!
A+!

[SDuderstadt]

7. Jesus...

Now I have to buy a new irony meter.

Don't ever change, Spooked.

[spooked911]

8. actually the easiest thing in the world is just to go along with the official story

don't need to think at all

[LARED]

9. Riiiiight

It's just intellectual laziness that prevent 99.9999% of the world from seeing things your way. You know like stringing together improbabilities while ignoring critical evidence in order to sustain a fantasy world.

[spooked911]

11. I'm glad you agree with me then

It is pretty obvious believing and official story requires little to no intellectual ability.

[SDuderstadt]

13. It's far more so to just...

uncritically buy the conspiracy theory du jour.

[spooked911]

14. but I don't

I am not into thermite, for instance, and no planes is not particularly popular among the "movement"

[SDuderstadt]

15. For good reason, dude...

Same thing with mini-nukes. Can you guess why?

[spooked911]

16. because they either haven't looked at the evidence or

aren't familiar with the vast extent of the overall deception that goes on by the people in charge.

And don't even think about denying that, dude.

[SDuderstadt]

17. Sorry...

I just did, dude.

[jberryhill]

18. So, all the thermite believing inside jobbers are not sufficiently open minded and paranoid?

And all of their "scientific proof" is crap, right?

[spooked911]

19. No. Proofs of demolition are still proof regardless of whether it was thermite or not.

People can grab onto thermite in good faith because they either haven't done enough research and/or rightfully distrust the official story and so grab onto whatever is presented by a skeptic such as Steven Jones with a lot of credentials. Unfortunately, IMO, anyone who has been pushing thermite for a long time, is controlled opposition.

[SDuderstadt]

20. Maybe when you come up with some...

people will take you seriously.

[zappaman]

21. So, now you have proofs?

Can't wait to see them!
Maybe you could start another thread with them since it's kinda off topic in this one.

[jberryhill]

22. No, it's disinfo....

To distract the public from the mass spontaneous human combustion event that took place in the towers.

[spooked911]

30. well yeah, funny you mention that

almost a thousand people essentially vaporized in the towers-- no recoverable DNA

[SDuderstadt]

31. Does that surprise you...

dude?

[jberryhill]

35. There was a lot of tissue recovered and DNA match

Wtf?

http://www.massfatality.dna.gov/

http://www.sciencentral.com/articles/view.php3?article_id=218392053

"We have over 1521 identifications so far," says Shaler. "If we did not ever have DNA typing, we would have had about 736 identifications and we would have stopped working in May of 2002. So the DNA part has been critical to making identifications."

[spooked911]

39. far more died in the WTC than 1521-- like almost 1000 more

so why are you confused?

[SDuderstadt]

40. My irony meter just...

broke again.

[jberryhill]

10. NOW I know why the moon landings were fake

Of course, the aliens needed to get rid of KENNEDY because he wanted the Apollo program to go to the moon. That wouldn't be allowed under the alien quarantine, so they had to kill him in order to replace him with politicians who would PRETEND to go to the moon instead!

It all makes sense now, and I owe it all to you.

You've cracked the case, spooky.

[spooked911]

12. In any case, I would appreciate if anyone had info relating to the OP

[jberryhill]

23. While we're waiting...

I'm right about the Apollo program being the motivation here, though, right?

[spooked911]

24. ?????

I'm sorry but I do not follow you

[jberryhill]

36. Kennedy's proposed moon mission would have violated the alien quarantine

So Kennedy was killed by the aliens and then the Apollo missions were faked.

Right?

[SDuderstadt]

37. I think JFK crossed swords with...

the chemtrailers.

Consider. In nearly 50 years, not ONE chemtrailer has come forward and said they DIDN'T do it.

Case solved.

[William Seger]

25. Hmmm...

Have you actually watched the Zapruder movie carefully to see if Twyman's "conclusive evidence" is real? I just did, and the simple answer is that Twyman is just full of shit. There are no "missing frames"; Greer does turn his head quickly, but it's not within one frame as Twyman claims, and certainly not "superhuman."

A little digging shows that other people have reached the same conclusion.

[zappaman]

26. yeah, but...

it doesn't look right to SPOOKED so therefore it's a conspiracy.

[spooked911]

28. I guess you didn't read the OP carefully.

I'm asking for the extra frames that are supposed to be out there. I have watched the Z film many many times and the head turn is quick but who knows how many frames. The Z film frames that are out there show the turn in one frame. I'd like to see if anyone has loaded those other frames online. I even emailed that dude, he wrote that bit in your link, but he didn't respond.

[William Seger]

32. Yes, I did, and the point is there aren't any "extra frames"

Here's a good version of http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/">all the frames. When we first see Greer's face, he is looking back and then he looks forward for an instant. The head turn Twyman claims happens in one frame is actually about 301 through 305.

Here's a stabilized version I made so you can watch it at actual speed and slowed down: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BfaVGoZO9Jo

No, it's not one frame.

[spooked911]

41. I have seen those frames

Twyman doesn't say the whole head turn occurs in one frame, just that there is a large portion of the turn between two frames, 302 and 303, that means a very very rapid turn. Twyman did a study where he could not get anyone to duplicate turning their head by that amount in the time between those two frames.

Maybe there is a fundamental misunderstanding of what Twyman is referring to by the source I gave in the OP.

[William Seger]

43. Uh-huh

Twyman's "conclusive evidence" is just another "that don't look right to me." Where would conspiracists be without that wonderful "research" tool...

Since I have a pair of functioning eyes, and since I'm quite sure I can turn my head as fast as what the Zapruder film actually shows, there's no reason to assume "missing frames," so I think I'll stick with "Twyman is full of shit."

[spooked911]

44. Sounds like you haven't read Twyman at all!

It is NOT a case of this "not looking right". He actually does time tests with athletes to see if they can turn their head that far in whatever fraction of a second one frame is. They couldn't come close. If you take the time to read that segment, it is fairly damning.

[William Seger]

49. "He actually does time tests..."

The problem is he starts with a bad assumption about how long the head-turn took, then "concludes" that his own bad assumption is impossible.

I did some tests myself, just now, using a video camera. I'm over 60, and I found that I could turn my head like that in 7 to 8 NTSC frames. At 30 fps, that's right around a quarter of a second. That would be about 4 frames in the Z film, and whaddayaknow, that's just about how many frames the head-turn actually takes. QED, Twyman is full of shit.

[ryan_cats]

46. I looked at your work; impressive.

I looked at your work; impressive. That is the clearest version of the Zapruder film I've seen. It is hard to watch though.

What software did you use?

[William Seger]

50. That was done in VirtualDub with Deshaker stabilization filter. (n/t)

[jberryhill]

27. I guess you haven't looked at the Muchmore film either

http://youtu.be/ufvmHYqfdbU#t=2m38s

[spooked911]

29. does the Muchmore film show Greer's head turn? Your link is to the Z film

so I'm not sure what your point is

[jberryhill]

34. Ah, yes, I realize that two things at once was difficult

1. You asked for a link to the z film with frames numbered.

2. You really ought to look at the z film synched with the Muchmore film. Then come back and explain how the frames are
missing from both.

[spooked911]

38. do you have a link for that?

and the frames are not easy to see in that clip. I was looking for something like this:
http://www.assassinationresearch.com/zfilm/

except this shows the very rapid head turn between 302 and 303

[jberryhill]

45. And what other discontinuities of motion are shown?

The reason I linked to a full motion video is that you can see the fluidity of motion.

If frames are missing, then EVERY other motion is going to be discontinuous - not just one object in the film.

[spooked911]

47. people have pointed out discrepancies in the Connaly's movements among other things.

The overall gist is that frames were removed to hide that the limo stopped or slowed significantly during the shooting.

[defendandprotect]

33. Greer was certainly an accomplice in this ---

What's the comment about Groden mean?

Recall that Edward Harrison Livingstone who wrote the fabulous High Treason I and II

made some comments suggesting that Groden was playing games with photos on book he

was collaborating on with Livingstone --

Groden was also involved as staff on one of the investigations -- think the House?

Something also went wrong there with photo files, as I recall?

Think Groden also oddly come into possession of the a copy of the Z film at some point?

Been a long time since I read about this so don't take this for Bible!!

[zappaman]

42. "don't take this for Bible!!"

No worries!

[spooked911]

48. More on the fast-forward mistakes here

http://assassinationscience.com/johncostella/jfk/intro/fast.html