Debunking the Popular Mechanics Debunkers

[demodewd]

Debunking The Debunkers
By Joel Skousen
World Affairs Brief - c. 2005 Joel Skousen
Partial quotations with attribution permitted.
Cite source as World Affairs Brief
http://www.worldaffairsbrief.com
2-14-5

In every major conspiracy to cover up government criminal activity, agents of change or naïve "experts" have been hired by the establishment media to debunk conspiracy theories and facts. Walter Cronkite was trotted out of retirement to host a PBS documentary debunking the conspiracy facts surrounding the assassination of JFK (which was hardly convincing). In like manner, other programs have been produced at great expense to discredit the charges of government cover-ups in the Vince Foster and Ron Brown murders, the downing of TWA 800 by a missile, and the OKC bombing of the Murrah building.

The professional debunkers use four primary tactics to accomplish their propaganda feats:

1) They refuse to mention, much less attempt to disprove, the most irrefutable and damaging evidence.

2) They take great delight in debunking only those conspiracy theories that are the weakest or that are planted by other government sympathizers to help discredit the more credible conspiracy facts. This is what is referred to as a "straw man" argument, where a weak or false argument is set up so that it can easily be knocked down.

3) They only select "experts" who agree with the official conclusion.

4) They snicker at or mock anyone who believes that government engages in criminal behavior or covers up crimes in collusion with judges, investigators, prosecutors, media heads, and hand-picked commissions. Worse, they label dissenters as unpatriotic or mentally imbalanced.

So it is with the latest government attempt to debunk the evidence of government collusion in the 9/11 attacks. For over a decade now, the PTB have used an odd vehicle to do their debunking on a variety of issues-Popular Mechanics Magazine (a Hearst publication). I suppose they are targeting the back-yard mechanic and auto-enthusiast crowd, who are often prone to accepting conspiracy facts and theories.

In the March 2005 issue, PM magazine singled out 16 issues or claims of the 9/11 skeptics that point to government collusion and systematically attempted to debunk each one. Of the 16, most missed the mark and almost half were straw men arguments-either ridiculous arguments that few conspiracists believed or restatements of the arguments that were highly distorted so as to make them look weaker than they really were. PM took a lot of pot shots at conspiracy buffs, saying that those "who peddle fantasies that this country encouraged, permitted or actually carried out the attacks are libeling the truth - and disgracing the memories of the thousands who died that day."

That would be true only if there was no basis in fact for these controversies. I am one of those who claim there are factual arguments pointing to conspiracy, and that truth is not served by taking cheap shots at those who see gaping flaws in the government story-especially when you don't address the really tough questions in your rebuttal. Here is a quick run down of the claims (some lumped together) and why PM's debunking was superficial and distorted:

1) The bulging projection (pod) visible on the bottom of Flight 175 as it struck the south tower

If the bulge is real, critics claim it means the aircraft was modified for the attack, which could not have been done by hijackers. PM says the anomaly was simply the bulging faring under each wing root which hides the landing gear. This is a possibility since the bulge viewed on all pictures of Flight 175 is in the same location as the landing gear faring. However, the bulge is significantly bigger than the actual faring, and casts a shadow on the bottom of the aircraft. The real landing gear faring is flush with the bottom of the plane and could not cast a shadow on that area.

Besides, I talked to Boeing about the bulge and a woman spokesperson admitted that Boeing had studied the bulge and concluded, "It wasn't modified by Boeing." She didn't deny the bulge wasn't there, nor did she try to persuade me it was the landing gear faring. However, I don't have an answer for what the purpose of the modification might have been.

Later PM turns a related claim by a witness (that there were no windows on this aircraft) into a major issue to debunked. This was a straw man issue that was easily debunked with a photo of the plane's debris, with windows. This was never a credible issue with most conspiracy theorists.

2) The "stand down" order to stop intervention against the hijackers

PM cites the existence of a few scrambled jets as proof there was no "stand down" order given. This is a straw argument because key facts are omitted. There is other evidence to show that these fighters were called out purposely from bases too distant to make the intercepts-and never engaged afterburners for extra speed, indicating no sincere attempt to intercept. I received an email from one of the tower operators at McGuire AFB telling me he had received a call from the base commander ordering him to shut down military flight ops and not let fighter-interceptors take off. This was before the general shut down of the air traffic system by the FAA. This indicates that aircraft closer to the hijacked planes were told to stand down.

There are two witnesses (a general and a Congressman) who said VP Dick Cheney was operating under stand-down orders, except as pertaining to Flight 93 in Pennsylvania. PM tried to make the case that NORAD had never vigorously followed standing orders to intercept hijacked aircraft, and that their high definition radars were all pointed outside the US boundaries (like a doughnut). Neither is true. There were dozens of intercepts in the two years prior to 9/11 (PM said there was only one) and NORAD has complete radar coverage within the US.

PM also presented disinformation when it claimed that if an airliner turns off its transponder, the controller can no longer distinguish the aircraft from thousand of other smaller blips on his screen. Not so. First, there aren't thousands of unlabeled blips on the screen in any given sector, and second, the actual radar return is still on the screen at the same approximate position of the transponder data symbol, making it easier to acquire.

PM neglected to mention the more powerful evidences of cover-up and collusion here, including the FAA's destruction of the tape recording of air traffic controllers' description of the events, the FAA refusing to turn over tape recordings of the ATC controllers talking to the pilots when the hijackings were declared, and the discrepancies between the claims of when the FAA supposedly notified NORAD.

3) Explosives brought down the twin towers (puff of dust, etc.)

This is only a partial straw man argument. There is significant evidence that the aircraft impacts did not cause the collapse, but PM only discussed the fire and explosive claims that were easily explained away. An early claim making the rounds was that the towers couldn't have collapsed since fuel doesn't burn hot enough to melt steel. PM correctly pointed out, as I have also in my briefs, that steel trusses supporting the floor system only need be heated to the point of sagging-not melting-in order to give way.

Early conspiracists claimed that the puffs of smoke coming out of the windows as each floor pancaked down on another were evidence of demolition charges. Once again, PM correctly pointed out that the crushing of sheet rock interiors can cause this. I was never convinced of controlled demolition myself, since it would have required months of prep work inside the building, unbeknownst to all the tenants.

But conspicuously absent from the PM arguments was the blockbuster evidence that the 42 main pillars in the central core of the building had been taken down by a combination of explosives and thermite charges-which can melt steel like butter. The head of the company removing the debris from the WTC said in an interview that there were large pools of hot molten steel in the lowest basement where the main support pillars had stood. No expert has claimed that either fuel or burning debris falling into an oxygen starved basement would have been capable of creating the huge quantity of concentrated heat needed to melt 42 huge pillars with two-foot-thick steel walls. Numerous witnesses and fire fighters heard large explosions in the lower section of the building just prior to the collapse. One video shot of the south WTC (whose central core was not even damaged by Flight 175) gives clear evidence of the central core being collapsed prior to the general collapse: the center mounted TV towers started descending downward well prior to the outer section of the building. PM was silent on these major anomalies, and so was the 9/11 Commission, which indicates they were avoiding the tough issues.

PM did attempt some sleight of hand, with some remarks by a paid "expert" trying to explain away the symmetrical and absolutely vertical collapse of WTC building #7 that was only slightly damaged on one side. A video of the collapse does show the telltale signs of explosive demolition on each floor-which would have been impossible if the building was heeling over toward the damaged side.

4) The Pentagon crash

PM discussed the common arguments against the official version: the penetration hole was too small; there was not enough debris outside; windows close to the impact were still intact. The window argument was a straw man with an easy explanation-they were reinforced security glass. The issues of the penetration hole and the lack of large pieces of debris simply do not jive with the official story, but they are explainable if you include the parking lot video evidence that shows a huge white explosion at impact. This cannot happen with an aircraft laden only with fuel. It can only happen in the presence of high explosives. Some witnesses saw a smaller aircraft, others saw the Boeing. One or two saw and heard a missile launch. Could all three have been present? I think so.

There are credible witnesses who saw many small pieces of aluminum scattered about, plus a few larger pieces. If the larger Boeing was blasted apart at impact with high explosives it would explain the shower of aluminum shards that littered the road. The Pentagon parking lot video tape (which strangely fails to show a large Boeing aircraft) does show a huge white explosion-the unique sign of high explosives. An aircraft laden only with fuel gives off the red and black signature only-nothing white or bright. If the Boeing was laced with explosives, it would also explain why the wings didn't totally penetrate the structure. I have checked the photographs of major engine and landing gear pieces among the wreckage and they do match the Boeing aircraft, so I do think a Boeing hit the Pentagon. But I am not buying PM's statement (given without any evidence or photos) that a landing gear was responsible for the 12-foot round hole that penetrated three rings of the Pentagon. The landing gear is a long, gangly affair, and it didn't even make it through the first ring, according to photos I have seen. Only a missile could have penetrated that far. Was a missile on the smaller jet seen by witnesses used to prep the hardened Pentagon façade?

PM's glib explanations did not do justice to the multiple possibilities. Besides, if the government version is true, why is the FBI refusing to turn over the two video surveillance tapes (one from a gas station and one from a hotel) that would show what really happened?

5) Flight 93 was shot down by an F-16

PM discussed all the key issues: a small white private jet that was shadowing the flight; engine parts apart from the main wreckage; debris two miles away in Indian Lake; and the purported identity of the F-16 pilot. But in each case, it falsified the evidence by quoting erroneous, distorted or planted theories by government experts.

For example, while it finally acknowledged the presence of a white unmarked jet, it claimed it was a private jet flying at 30,000 feet, asked to descend from high altitude and check out the crash. This was impossible as witnesses saw the plane before the crash. PM even claimed to have talked to the company (which conveniently didn't want to be named) that owned the jet. But this is at variance with prior admission by a leasing company that said the jet was theirs and was leased to the government (the CIA often uses white unmarked jets).

This story by PM was a total fabrication. I have listened to the private transcripts of the radio talk between Cleveland Center and all the other airliners controlled by ATC in that sector (including Flight 93). Even the 9/11 commission refused to address this private tape, which was recorded by one private jet that was in the area, and is still available on the internet. Nowhere in that transcript is any private aircraft asked by Cleveland Center to follow or descend with Flight 93. In fact, the one airliner that was closest to Flight 93 was asked by Cleveland Center to verify visually the condition of Flight 93 after the Center and all other aircraft on that frequency heard the pilot of the aircraft announce that "there was a bomb on board." The aircraft acknowledged seeing Flight 93 in the distance and then suddenly announced that he observed an explosion. This was while Flight 93 was at altitude, confirming reports from ATC controllers who had vectored an F-16 to Flight 93, and witnesses who saw the shoot down from the ground.

It also explains why one of the engines was found miles away. PM tried to divert its readers from the issue by telling about another part of the engine found about 300 meters from the crash site-which is explainable, if you don't address the issue of the other engine. Many witnesses saw streams of papers, luggage and even body parts falling some distance from the crash site. PM blamed this on an updraft-but luggage and body parts don't blow two miles away in a gentle breeze.

Lastly, the issue on the identity of the pilot of the F-16 (a Major Gibbons) is problematic. The source is a retired Colonel Donn de Grand-Pre, who makes many claims about hobnobbing with big wigs in Washington that I find uncredible and suspicious. He claims he was at an awards ceremony in North Dakota when Major Gibbons was supposedly awarded a medal for shooting down Flight 93. I always found this a little fantastic. Why would the government give out a public award for something they were trying to keep secret? The government still doesn't admit to shooting down Flight 93, let alone disclose who did it. Of course, if they did allow a private awards ceremony, it would explain why they would have Major Gibbons deny it. While PM's debunking of the Gibbons story may be true (they claim he was using his F-16 to pick up a big-wig in Montana), their explanation was also a bit fantastic: people have to be trained in ejection seat procedures prior to flying in a high performance jet.

[WoodrowFan]

1. thanks for the link to another far RW site

the same site also claims the Clintons had Vince Foster killed, that Columbine was a CIA operation, and it recommends far rw sites like Worldnutdaily and Newswithviews. Gee, couldn't find the article on Stormfront??

[demodewd]

3. no one

No one has a monopoly on the truth.

[WoodrowFan]

8. no, but the CT sites

seem to be getting a monopoly on bull shit for the gulliable! LOL

[demodewd]

12. you seem very naive.

If you think Osama and friends are the culprits,you are truly gullible and naive.

[WoodrowFan]

13. if that makes you happy

then yes I am. I prefer educated, intelligent and sane myself. :)

[demodewd]

16. never

I've never read a post of yours that is educated much less intelligent. Someday you'll realise how treacherous people in power really are and can be. Boy...won't that be a shock!!

[vincent_vega_lives]

29. Really?

How much direct contact have you had with "people in power".

Lets hear it, along with your demolitions experience.

[Sweet Pea]

2. Well indeedy

This thing has holes you can drive a truck through, but that is to be expected, I suppose, from a website that treats "chemtrails" as a government conspiracy.

Just a few:

people have to be trained in ejection seat procedures prior to flying in a high performance jet.

How does HE know that Jacoby wasn't ejection seat qaul'ed?

The Pentagon parking lot video tape (which strangely fails to show a large Boeing aircraft) does show a huge white explosion-the unique sign of high explosives.

How many freaking times do I have to show this image:



of a B-52 crashing during an airshow practice to show that a white explosion means NOTHING MORE than it was a big boom! This clown Skousen needs to read DU more.

The landing gear is a long, gangly affair, and it didn't even make it through the first ring, according to photos I have seen.

Another "expert" who doesn't know how the Pentagon is constructed - with the first two floors of the first 3 rings joined together in one large area with no "rings". "Long, gangly affair" is right, weighing many hundreds of pounds and traveling at 300-400 feet per second (down from an initial 500-600 feet per second) can do some pretty impressive damage. I dare Mr Skousen to stand in front of this "long, gangly affair" when it is moving that fast.

PM also presented disinformation when it claimed that if an airliner turns off its transponder, the controller can no longer distinguish the aircraft from thousand of other smaller blips on his screen. Not so. First, there aren't thousands of unlabeled blips on the screen in any given sector, and second, the actual radar return is still on the screen at the same approximate position of the transponder data symbol, making it easier to acquire.

Mr Skousen leaves aside the fact that there were indeed over 4500 civilian aircraft flying that morning, many of them in the high-traffic sectors of the northeast. When a transponder is turned off I'm not certain Mr Skousen knows what a raw-radar return looks like when compared to ground clutter, side-lobe clutter, weather returns or some other random return.

I could go on, but it appears to me that Skousen is guilty of the same thing he accuses PM of doing - erecting a straw man so he can whack it down.

[demodewd]

4. where's the evidence? you have none.

The Pentagon parking lot video tape (which strangely fails to show a large Boeing aircraft) does show a huge white explosion-the unique sign of high explosives.

Where is that Boeing aircraft? But that's another story.
Why no light flash initiating the WTC explosions? Why the difference?
Does your photo display sonarwaves? Can you tell?

Another "expert" who doesn't know how the Pentagon is constructed - with the first two floors of the first 3 rings joined together in one large area with no "rings". "Long, gangly affair" is right, weighing many hundreds of pounds and traveling at 300-400 feet per second (down from an initial 500-600 feet per second) can do some pretty impressive damage. I dare Mr Skousen to stand in front of this "long, gangly affair" when it is moving that fast.

Your long gangly affair would have exploded into much smaller parts in a spacially random fury from the initial explosion which occurred in front of the building.And there are no photos to support your theory.


Why wouldn't the Pentagon show us the likely culprit sitting itself in the A-0E drive if it were there? What better way to bring home their(your) point. No landing gear photos. No Boeing photos. You are just speculating without evidence.

Mr Skousen leaves aside the fact that there were indeed over 4500 civilian aircraft flying that morning, many of them in the high-traffic sectors of the northeast. When a transponder is turned off I'm not certain Mr Skousen knows what a raw-radar return looks like when compared to ground clutter, side-lobe clutter, weather returns or some other random return.

I could go on, but it appears to me that Skousen is guilty of the same thing he accuses PM of doing - erecting a straw man so he can whack it down.

Radar can still identify the blip,just not altitude... it is not so complicated.

Skousen is NOT A CLOWN.,anymore than you or I are. If you have reasonable objections..fine...but why the persistant rancor??

[AZCat]

5. What is a sonarwave?

Would you mind explaining this term - it would assist in understanding your theory (I think).

[WoodrowFan]

9. MR Skousen

"I'm not certain Mr Skousen knows what a raw-radar return looks like"

Having read that article I';m pretty sure Skousen doens't know a radar return from his own ass.

[LARED]

6. Hummmmm

I guess Cosmopolitan is another Hearst publication that is used by the government to fool the sheeple

Along with

[vincent_vega_lives]

7. Dincha know?

They are key elements in the RW mind control stepford wives plot.

[LARED]

11. I have to admit the Cosmo cover seems to

distract me. Makes my mind drift. Must be some sort of special hypnotic suggestion crafted by RW dictators bent on world domination.

But then again, maybe it's something else.

[WoodrowFan]

14. that explains

why all the eyewitnesses to the Pentagon plane crash were 20-something buxom women in low cut dresses!!!

[demodewd]

20. So...

So you were there! Sorry I missed out!

[demodewd]

15. big deal

So Hearst publishes a couple of innoccuous mags...what major newsprint publisher doesn't?

[LARED]

17. A couple of innoccuous mag??

http://www.hearstcorp.com

Please

Thier main business is selling innocuous media.

[demodewd]

19. really?

Really? Like The San Francisco Chronicle,Albany Times Chronicle,Beaumont Enterprise,Houston Chronicle,Midland Daily News,San Antonio Express,Seattle Post-Intelligence,New England Cable News,Netscape, The News Market,Stocknet and TL Publications? To mention just a partial listing..

[LARED]

21. I realize this is rather pointless, but

it was you that was talking about magazines. The one you listed are newspapers.

So are all the Hearst publications RW propaganda tools? Or just some like PM.

[demodewd]

22. answer

no and yes

[AZCat]

23. It's amazing how strong the correlation is...

between those publications that don't agree with the CT community and those that are accused of being propaganda mills.

Isn't it possible that people actually disagree with you without being paid to do so?

[seatnineb]

26. 'Pop' mechanics......is so full of shit

This stuff is kid's play to de-bunk......

..and I'm barely breaking sweat......

Popular mechanics states as fact:

Rules in effect back then, and on 9/11, prohibited supersonic flight on intercepts.

Too bad that the commander who sent those F-15's to New York on 9/11 had this to say....

In the meantime, our pilots were coming at about 1.5 mach, which is, you know, somewhere--11 or 1200 miles an hour. http://billstclair.com/911timeline/2001/msnbc092301c.html


Enjoy........

Popular mechanics states as fact:
The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage.

I defy you,LA-RED,Woodruf,Vince,Bolu,Maggie or any other of the sisterhood of truth to find where in the ASCE report is such a claim made......

Happy hunting........

Don't expect to hear from you in a long time......

[vincent_vega_lives]

28. OBVIOUSLY

The intercept was not routine by the time the 102nd FW was launched from Otis AFB.

[seatnineb]

31. Go tell that to pop mega crap!

[vincent_vega_lives]

33. the point being

The pilots were authorized to go SS.

[seatnineb]

36. So when did they get there by?

About 9:30 a.m., I saw a couple of jet fighters do a fly by. There was also a small gray military cruiser, which passed by. It seemed too little too late. The most incredible sight came at 10 a.m. as tower one disintegrated in front of my eyes.

http://www.ualberta.ca/ALUMNI/newtrail/01-4/911lee.html

On edit:

That is nearly 30 minutes AFTER the second plane hit......

[vincent_vega_lives]

37. Yes and your point is??????

[seatnineb]

You are letting me down Vince......

I want a response from you with regards to the following:

'pop' mega crap says....

The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage.


Where in the ASCE report does it fucking say this?

[vincent_vega_lives]

34. I belive we responed that one to death on another thread

and the use of obcenity really doesn't make you appear any more knowlageable.

[seatnineb]

35. No you did not.

I know Vince.....

I might aswell just put you out of your misery......

And....

You know aswell as I do that this is the only reference that the ASCE makes to that hole..........

There was a hole in the east wall of Ring C, emerging into AE Drive, between column lines 5 and 7 in Wedge 2 (figure 5.16). The wall failure was approximately 310 ft from where the fuselage of the aircraft entered the west wall of the building."

......nary a landing gear in sight.........

And there ain't a damn thing you can do about it......

So........

Where did pop mega crap get this from?.........

The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage.

[vincent_vega_lives]

38. Well Mr Misery..

Popular Mechanics does not claim that the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report concludes that the hole was made by the jet's landing gear.

It claims that ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage.

If you note PM quotes from ASCE members in the article, and does not specify if this information is from the report or from an ASCE member.

So this claim may very well be speculation by on of the ASCE members.

[seatnineb]

42. You said it mate.....

Speculation.........

[LARED]

39. And I defy you seatnineb

to show anyone where the Popular Mechanics article says the information they used is from the ASCE report. This is what Popular Mechanics wrote;

FACT: When American Airlines Flight 77 hit the Pentagon's exterior wall, Ring E, it created a hole approximately 75 ft. wide, according to the ASCE Pentagon Building Performance Report. The exterior facade collapsed about 20 minutes after impact, but ASCE based its measurements of the original hole on the number of first-floor support columns that were destroyed or damaged. Computer simulations confirmed the findings.

Why wasn't the hole as wide as a 757's 124-ft.-10-in. wingspan? A crashing jet doesn't punch a cartoon-like outline of itself into a reinforced concrete building, says ASCE team member Mete Sozen, a professor of structural engineering at Purdue University. In this case, one wing hit the ground; the other was sheared off by the force of the impact with the Pentagon's load-bearing columns, explains Sozen, who specializes in the behavior of concrete buildings. What was left of the plane flowed into the structure in a state closer to a liquid than a solid mass. "If you expected the entire wing to cut into the building," Sozen tells PM, "it didn't happen."

The tidy hole in Ring C was 12 ft. wide--not 16 ft. ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage.

There is no reference to the ASCE report.

[seatnineb]

43. You old wordsmith LARED

Funny how how 'Pop mega crap' refers to it as:

ASCE concludes it was made by the jet's landing gear, not by the fuselage.

Yet by there own admission.....

'Pop mega crap' only consulted one member of the ASCE....Mete Sozen....

And if Mete Sozen had the balls to tell 'Pop mega crap' that on behalf of the ASCE, it was concluded that the landing gear was the cause of the hole......

Then why was that all important conclusion not included in the ASCE report?

[Sweet Pea]

40. Wasn't all that long.....

To use your italicized word:

where in the statement does it say that this comment with regards to the landing gear came from the "ASCE Pentagon Building performance Report"?

Happy hunting.......

Don't expect to hear from YOU in a long time..... :)

[seatnineb]

41. So you wanna play it that way......

Good question.........

Why does Mete Sozenconclude that the famouse hole was made by the landing gear?...


It was a conclusion, right?

So why was it not included in the ASCE report?

[WoodrowFan]

27. No, it's not

any none CTers, and not just any CTers, but one that agrees with EVERY position of theirs, is suspect. And I don't mean that answer as a smartalek, check their responses.

[seatnineb]

30. Sorry to break your heart Woodruf.....

But

I read that bull-shit and enjoyed it a lot!

Here is the next debunker block-buster for 'pop mega-crap's feeble propaganda attempt....

......How many F-15's were scrambled from Otis on 9/11..

'Pop' Mega-crap tells us......

NEADS scrambled two F-15s from Otis Air Force Base in Falmouth, Mass.,

....Not according to an eye-witness who was there........

I thought it was very strange to see eight F-15 fighter jets taking off on each other's tail, a sight I have not seen since I moved here in 1999. Usually only 2 to 4 of them are ever out at the same time. I got home to turn on the television to see that "a plane" had hit the World Trade Center. As I was taking it all in, the second plane hit.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/special/sept11/feedback/feedback_responses01.html.


By the way......

Here is what the ASCE had to say about that hole at the Pentagon.....

There was a hole in the east wall of Ring C, emerging into AE Drive, between column lines 5 and 7 in Wedge 2 (figure 5.16). The wall failure was approximately 310 ft from where the fuselage of the aircraft entered the west wall of the building."

Now tell me Woodruf.....

Where does it say that this hole was caused by the landing gear?

Well....come on then......

Anything?

[vincent_vega_lives]

44. Kidding right?

Every other source in the world states 2x F15s came out of Otis. You pick the one eyewitness to discredit the PM article?

Notice that she doesn't mention a time. A while after the 2x alert fighters were launched that the rest of the wing was scrambled. There are a wing of 12x F15s at Otis.

[seatnineb]

45. Nice try..........

But this woman did a night shift and was returning home on the morning of 9/11.....

Also......

Note the chronology...

I got home to turn on the television to see that "a plane" had hit the World Trade Center. As I was taking it all in, the second plane hit.

Prove to me that she was not watching this live.....

[vincent_vega_lives]

46. Are you demented?

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&timeperiod=1:00am%20Sept%2011%202001

1st of all, Otis keeps 2x F15s on alert around the clock. Otis is a Air National Guard base. To launch aditional fighters they would need to call in off duty pilots from their civilian jobs.

Project: Complete 911 Timeline
Open-Content project managed by Paul Thompson








Showing 1-100 of 358 events (use filters to narrow search): next 100


(5:53 a.m.)


Abdulaziz Alomari and Mohamed Atta go through security in Portland. These are the only released images of any hijackers in airports on 9/11. Note the two different time stamps, one in the middle, one at the bottom.
Hijackers Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari board a Colgan Air flight from Portland, Maine, to Boston. They are filmed going through security in Portland. This is the only footage of the hijackers in airports on 9/11, and it's not even one of the suicide flights.





(6:00 a.m.)


President Bush has just spent the night at Colony Beach and Tennis Resort on Longboat Key, Florida. Surface-to-air missiles have been placed on the roof of the resort. Bush wakes up around 6:00 a.m. and is preparing for his morning jog. A van occupied by men of Middle Eastern descent pull up to the Colony stating they have a “poolside” interview with the president. They are turned away for not having an appointment.





(6:00 a.m.)


Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari's flight from Portland, Maine to Boston takes off. Two passengers later say Atta and Alomari board separately from each other, keep quiet, and don't draw attention to themselves.





(6:30 a.m.)


A man has an argument with five Middle Eastern men over a parking space in the parking lot of Boston's Logan Airport. Later in the day he reports the event, and the car is discovered to have been rented by Mohamed Atta. Inside, police find a ramp pass, allowing access to restricted airport areas. <“About 6.30,” News of the World, 9/16/01, time unknown, Miami Herald, 9/22/01>





(6:30 a.m.)


Lt. Col. Dawne Deskins and other NORAD employees at NEADS (NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector that covers the Washington and New York areas) are starting their work day. NORAD is unusually prepared on 9/11, because it is conducting a week-long semi-annual exercise called Vigilant Guardian. Deskins is regional Mission Crew Chief for the Vigilant Guardian exercise. The exercise poses “an imaginary crisis to North American Air Defense outposts nationwide.” Accounts by participants vary on whether 9/11 was the second, third, or fourth day of the exercise. NORAD is also running another fighter exercise named Operation Northern Vigilance (see (9:00 a.m.). NORAD is thus fully staffed and alert, and senior officers are manning stations throughout the US. The entire chain of command is in place and ready when the first hijacking is reported. An article later says, “In retrospect, the exercise would prove to be a serendipitous enabler of a rapid military response to terrorist attacks on Sept. 11.” ABC News later reports that because NORAD is “conducting training exercises therefore extra fighter planes on alert.” Colonel Robert Marr, in charge of NEADS, says, “We had the fighters with a little more gas on board. A few more weapons on board.” However, Deskins and other NORAD officials later are initially confused whether the 9/11 attacks are real or part of the exercise (see 8:31 a.m.) There is a National Reconnaissance Office exercise occurring as well, involving a scenario of an airplane as a flying weapon (see 9:00 a.m.)).





(6:31 a.m.)


The Colony Beach and Tennis Resort, where Bush stays the night before 9/11.
Bush goes for a four-mile jog around the golf course at the Colony Beach and Tennis Resort.





(6:45 a.m.)


“Approximately two hours prior to the first attack”, at least two workers at the instant messaging company Odigo receive messages warning of the WTC attack. This Israeli owned company has its headquarters two blocks from the WTC.





6:50 a.m.


Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari's flight from Portland arrives on time at Boston's Logan Airport.





7:18 a.m.


Apparently, according to a security video seen by the 9/11 Commission, Flight 77 hijackers Majed Moqed and Khalid Almihdhar pass through a security checkpoint at Dulles International Airport in Washington. While their carry-on bags fail to set off any alarms, both set off alarms when passing through the magnetometer. They are directed to a second magnetometer. Almihdhar passes, but Moqed fails again. He is subjected to a personal screening with a metal detection hand wand. This time he is cleared and he is permitted to pass through the checkpoint. <9/11 Commission 1/27/04>





7:35 a.m.


According to the 9/11 Commission's review of airport security footage, the remaining three Flight 77 hijackers pass through a security checkpoint at Dulles International Airport in Washington. Hani Hanjour and his two carry-on bags fail to set off any alarms. One minute later, Nawaf Alhazmi and Salem Alhazmi enter the same checkpoint. Salem Alhazmi successfully clears the magnetometer and is permitted through the checkpoint. Nawaf Alhazmi sets off the alarms for both the first and second magnetometers. He is subsequently subjected to a personal screening with a metal detection hand wand. He finally passes. In addition, his shoulder strap carry-on bag is swiped by an explosive trace detector and returned without further inspection. The video footage of the hijackers going through this security checkpoint has yet to be publicly released.





(7:45 a.m.)


Mohamed Atta and Abdulaziz Alomari board Flight 11. Atta's bags contain airline uniforms and many other remarkable things, but are checked through to his final destination, making them unusable for the attacks. The bags are not loaded onto the plane in time and are later found by investigators. But at least two other hijackers on Flight 11 are able to use stolen uniforms and IDs to board the plane. There is speculation that the bags were meant to be left behind and found.





(Before 7:59 a.m.)


Supposedly, nine of the 19 hijackers are selected for special screening before they board their planes. None of their names are known , but one article makes clear hijackers Khalid Almihdhar and Nawaf Alhazmi, already on a terrorist watch list for international flights, are not selected. Six of the nine are chosen for extra scrutiny by a computerized screening system, prompting a sweep of their checked baggage for explosives or unauthorized weapons. Two of the nine are chosen because of irregularities in their identification documents, and one is chosen for traveling with someone having such documents. After screening, all are allowed to board.





(7:59 a.m.)



Flight 11 takes off from Boston's Logan Airport, 14 minutes after scheduled departure.





(Before 7:59 a.m.)


Hijacker Mohamed Atta on Flight 11 calls hijacker Marwan Alshehhi in Flight 175 as both planes sit on the runway. They confirm the plot is on. <“Just before 8:00,” Time, 8/4/02 (B)>





(8:00 a.m.)


Bush sits down for his daily intelligence briefing. “The President's briefing appears to have included some reference to the heightened terrorist risk reported throughout the summer” but contained nothing serious enough to call National Security Adviser Rice. The briefing ends at about 8:20.





8:01 a.m.


United Airlines Flight 93, a Boeing 757.
Flight 93 is delayed for 41 minutes on the runway in Newark, finally taking off at 8:42. The Boston Globe credits this delay as a major reason why this was the only one of the four flights not to succeed in its mission. Apparently Flight 93 has to wait in a line of about a dozen planes before it can take off.





(Between 8:13-8:21 a.m.)


Flight 11's manifest. Such details on other flights haven't been released.
Shortly after flight controllers ask Flight 11 to climb to 35,000 feet, the transponder stops transmitting. A transponder is an electronic device that identifies a jet on a controller's screen, which gives its exact location and altitude. Among other vital functions, it is also used to transmit a four-digit emergency hijack code. Air traffic manager Glenn Michael later says, “We considered it at that time to be a possible hijacking.” <8:13, “When given permission to climb to 35,000 feet,” AP, 8/12/02, 8:13, shortly after trying emergency frequencies, Christian Science Monitor, 9/13/01, 8:15, “Just moments” after radio contact is lost, MSNBC, 9/15/01> Initial stories after 9/11 suggest the transponder is turned off around 8:13, but one year after 9/11, Pete Zalewski, the flight controller handling the flight, says the transponder is turned off at 8:20. The 9/11 Commission later places it at 8:21. <9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04> Colonel Robert Marr, head of NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector, later claims the transponder is turned off some time after 8:30.





(8:13 a.m.)


American Airlines Flight 11, a Boeing 767.
Flight 11 is hijacked around this time. One flight controller says the plane is hijacked over Gardner, Massachusetts, less than 50 miles west of Boston. The storming of the cockpit doesn't appear to happen until after 8:21, yet communication with ground control stops now. Fifteen minutes after takeoff, Los Angeles Times, 9/20/01, “A few minutes into the flight,” ABC News, 7/18/02] As the Boston Globe put it, “It appears that the hijackers' entry was surprising enough that the pilots did not have a chance to broadcast a traditional distress call,” a button that would have taken only a few seconds to press.





(8:13 a.m.)


The last routine communication takes place between ground control and the pilots of Flight 11. Flight controller Pete Zalewski is handling the flight. The pilot responds when told to turn right, but immediately afterwards fails to respond to a command to climb. Zalewski repeatedly tries to reach the pilot, even using the emergency frequency, but still gets no response. <8:13, Boston Globe, 11/23/01, 8:13:31, New York Times, 10/16/01, 8:14, MSNBC, 9/11/02 (B), 8:13, 9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04> Flight 11 is apparently hijacked around this time. One flight controller says the plane is hijacked over Gardner, Massachusetts, less than 50 miles west of Boston. The Boston Globe notes, “It appears that the hijackers' entry was surprising enough that the pilots did not have a chance to broadcast a traditional distress call.” It would only have taken a few seconds to press the right buttons. Yet the storming of the cockpit doesn't appear to happen until about 8:20 (see (8:20 a.m.)).





8:14 a.m.


Flight 175's intended and actual routes.
Flight 175 takes off from Boston's Logan Airport, 16 minutes after the scheduled departure time.





(After 8:14 a.m.)


At some point after the hijacking begins, the pilot of Flight 11, John Ogonowski, activates the talk-back button, enabling Boston flight controllers to hear what is being said in the cockpit. A controller says, “The button was being pushed intermittently most of the way to New York.” An article later notes that “his ability to do so also indicates that he was in the driver's seat much of the way” to the WTC. Such transmissions continue until about 8:38.





(8:15 a.m.)


Two Boston flight controllers, Pete Zalewski and Lino Martins, discuss the fact that Flight 11 can't be contacted. Zalewski says to Martins, “He won't answer you. He's nordo roger thanks.”





(8:20 a.m.)


Flight 77's intended and actual routes. Note the strange loop off course about halfway along the route to the west. This loop doesn't show on most flight route maps.
Flight 77 departs Dulles International Airport near Washington, ten minutes after the scheduled departure time.





(8:20 a.m.)


Flight attendants Amy Sweeney (left) and Betty Ong (right).
Flight 11 attendant Amy (Madeline) Sweeney borrows a calling card from flight attendant Sara Low and uses an Airfone to call Boston's Logan Airport. She speaks to Michael Woodward, an American Airlines flight service manager. He is friends with Sweeney and thus doesn't have to verify the call is not a hoax. The call is not recorded but Woodward takes detailed notes. <8:19, New York Observer, 2/11/04, “Over the next 25 minutes,” ABC News, 7/18/02> She calmly tells Woodward, “Listen, and listen to me very carefully. I'm on Flight 11. The airplane has been hijacked.” She gives him the seat locations of three hijackers: 9D, 9G, and 10B. She says they are all of Middle Eastern descent, and one speaks English very well. Another account has her identifying four hijackers (but still not the five said to be on the plane) and says that not all the seats she gave matched up with the seats assigned to the hijackers on their tickets. She says she cannot contact the cockpit, and doesn't believe the pilots are flying the plane any longer. As the Los Angeles Times records, “But even as she was relating details about the hijackers, the men were storming the front of the plane and ‘had just gained access to the cockpit.’ ” (Note that Sweeney witnesses the storming of the cockpit at least seven minutes after radio contact from Flight 11 stops and the hijacking apparently begins (8:13 a.m.).) She says the hijackers have stabbed the two first-class flight attendants, Barbara Arestegui and Karen Martin. She adds, “A hijacker cut the throat of a business-class passenger, and he appears to be dead.” He is later identified as Daniel Lewin. She says the hijackers have brought a bomb into the cockpit. She's asked by Woodward, “How do you know it's a bomb?” She answers, “Because the hijackers showed me a bomb.” She describes its yellow and red wires. Sweeney continues talking with Woodward until Flight 11 crashes.





(8:20 a.m.)


Boston flight control decides that Flight 11 has probably been hijacked, but apparently it doesn't notify other flight control centers for another five minutes, and don't notify NORAD for about another 20 minutes. <“About 8:20,” Newsday, 9/23/01, “about 8:20,” New York Times, 9/15/01 (C)> ABC News will later say, “There doesn't seem to have been alarm bells going off, traffic controllers getting on with law enforcement or the military. There's a gap there that will have to be investigated.”





(8:20 a.m.)


Flight 11 starts to veer dramatically off course. <8:20, [MSNBC 9/11/02 (B)>





8:20 a.m.


Flight 11 stops transmitting its IFF (identify friend or foe) beacon signal.





(8:21 a.m.)


Boston flight controller Pete Zalewski, handling Flight 11, sees that the flight is off course and has both transponder and radio off. Zalewski later claims he turns to his supervisor and says, “Would you please come over here? I think something is seriously wrong with this plane. I don't know what. It's either mechanical, electrical, I think, but I'm not sure.” When asked if he suspected a hijacking at this point, he replies, “Absolutely not. No way.” Another flight controller, Tom Roberts, has another nearby American Airlines flight try to contact Flight 11. There is still no response. The flight is now “drastically off course” but NORAD is still not notified.





(Before 8:21 a.m.)


Daniel Lewin.
Four hijackers get up from their seats and stab or shoot passenger Daniel Lewin, who once belonged to the Israel Defense Force, Sayeret Matkal, a top-secret counter-terrorist unit. He was sitting in front of one of the three hijackers in business class. A very preliminary FAA memo says Lewin is shot by Satam Al Suqami at 9:20. Clearly the time is a typo; perhaps 8:20 is meant?





(8:21 a.m.)


Flight 11 attendant Betty Ong calls Vanessa Minter, an American Airlines reservations agent in North Carolina, using a seatback GTE Airfone from the back of the plane. Ong speaks to Minter and an unidentified man for about two minutes. Then supervisor Nydia Gonzales is conferenced into the call as well. Ong says, “The cockpit's not answering. Somebody's stabbed in business class and … I think there's mace … that we can't breathe. I don't know, I think we're getting hijacked.” A minute later, she continues, “And the cockpit is not answering their phone. And there's somebody stabbed in business class. And there's … we can't breathe in business class. Somebody's got mace or something …. I'm sitting in the back. Somebody's coming back from business. If you can hold on for one second, they're coming back.” As this quote shows, other flight attendants relay information from the front of the airplane to Ong sitting in the back. She goes on, “I think the guys are up there . They might have gone there—jammed the way up there, or something. Nobody can call the cockpit. We can't even get inside.” The first four and a half minutes of the call is later played before the 9/11 Commission. Ong apparently continues speaking to Gonzales and Minter until the plane crashes (see (8:23 a.m.)). 9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey, who has heard more recordings than have been made public, says that her account is greeted skeptically by some officials on the ground: “They did not believe her. They said, ‘Are you sure?’ They asked her to confirm that it wasn't air-rage. Our people on the ground were not prepared for a hijacking.”





8:21 a.m.


American Airlines flight service manager Michael Woodward, is listening to Flight 11 attendant Amy Sweeney (see (8:20 a.m.)), and he wants to pass on the information he is hearing from her. Since there is no tape recorder, he calls Nancy Wyatt, the supervisor of pursers at Logan Airport. Holding telephones in both hands, he repeats to Wyatt everything that Sweeney is saying to him. Wyatt in turn simultaneously transmits his account to the airline's Fort Worth, Texas headquarters. This conversation between Wyatt and managers at headquarters is recorded. All vital details from Sweeney's call reach American Airlines' top management almost instantly. However, according to victim's relatives who later hear this recording, the two managers at headquarters immediately begin discussing a cover-up of the hijacking details. They say: “Don't spread this around. Keep it close,” “Keep it quiet,” and “Let's keep this among ourselves. What else can we find out from our own sources about what's going on?” One former American Airlines employee who has also heard this recording recalls, “In Fort Worth, two managers in SOC were sitting beside each other and hearing it. They were both saying, ‘Do not pass this along. Let's keep it right here. Keep it among the five of us.’ ” Apparently they stop this early and clear evidence of a hijacking from being shared during the crisis. Gerard Arpey, American Airlines' executive vice president for operations, soon hears the details from flight attendant Betty Ong's phone call (see 8:30 a.m.), but apparently he doesn't hear about Sweeney's call until much later. The New York Observer quotes victims' relatives who ask if lives could have been saved if this information had been quickly shared with other airplanes.





(8:23 a.m.)


Nydia Gonzalez, an American Airlines supervisor with expertise on security matters, is patched in to a call with flight attendant Betty Ong on Flight 11. <“approximately 23 minutes” before crash, Independent Commission, 1/27/04> At 8:27, Gonzalez calls manager Craig Marquis at American Airlines' headquarters. Gonzalez holds the phone to Ong to one ear, and the phone to Marquis to the other. Gonzalez talks to Marquis continuously until Flight 11 crashes. The first four minutes of this call are later played before the 9/11 Commission. Marquis quickly says, “I'm assuming they've declared an emergency. Let me get ATC on here. Stand by …. Okay, we're contacting the flight crew now and we're … we're also contacting ATC.” In the four recorded minutes, Gonzalez relays that Ong is saying the hijackers from seats 2A and 2B are in the cockpit with the pilots. There are no doctors on board. All the first class passengers have been moved to the coach section. The airplane is flying very erratically.





(8:24 a.m.)


Flight 11 pilot John Ogonowski.
The pilot of Flight 11, John Ogonowski, activates the talk-back button, enabling Boston flight controllers to hear a hijacker on Flight 11 say to the passengers: “We have some planes. Just stay quiet and you will be OK. We are returning to the airport.” Flight controller John Zalewski responds, “Who's trying to call me?” The hijacker continues, “Everything will be OK. If you try to make any moves you'll endanger yourself and the airplane. Just stay quiet.” <8:24:38, Guardian, 10/17/01, 8:24:38, New York Times, 10/16/01, 8:24:38, 9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04, 8:24, Boston Globe, 11/23/01, after 8:24, MSNBC, 9/11/02 (B), 8:28, New York Times, 9/12/01, before 8:28, Channel 4 News, 9/13/01> Immediately after hearing this voice, Flight controller John Zalewski “knew right then that he was working a hijack” and calls for his supervisor. The frequency of Flight 11 is played on speakers so everyone in Boston flight control can hear.





(8:24 a.m.)


Boston flight control radar sees Flight 11 making an unplanned 100-degree turn to the south (they're already way off-course). Flight controllers say they never lost sight of the flight, though they could no longer determine altitude once the transponder was turned off. <8:24, MSNBC, 9/11/02 (B), 8:28, Christian Science Monitor, 9/13/01> Before this turn, the FAA had tagged Flight 11's radar dot for easy visibility, and at American Airlines headquarters at least, “All eyes watched as the plane headed south. On the screen, the plane showed a squiggly line after its turn near Albany, then it straightened.” “Boston Center could still track it on primary radar ….” Boston flight controller Mark Hodgkins later says, “I watched the target of American 11 the whole way down.” Reports stating that Boston's controllers don't spot the plane's course until just before or just after it has crashed appear to be incorrect (for instance, Washington Post, 9/12/01 and Newsday, 9/10/02). But apparently NEADS has different radar, and even around 8:40 they cannot find Flight 11. Boston has to periodically update NEADS on Flight 11's position by telephone until NEADS finally finds it a few minutes before it crashes into the WTC.





8:25 a.m.


The Guardian reports that Boston flight control “notifies several air traffic control centers that a hijack is taking place.” But supposedly they don't notify NORAD for another 6 to 15 minutes, depending on the account (see (8:37 a.m.)). However, the Indianapolis flight controller monitoring Flight 77 claims to not know about this or Flight 175's hijacking twenty minutes later (see 8:56 a.m.). Additionally, the flight controllers at New York City's La Guardia airport, at least, are never told about the hijacked planes and learn about them from watching the news (see 9:01 a.m. and 9:13 a.m.).





(Before 8:26 a.m.)


Having been told by flight attendant Amy Sweeney the seat locations of three hijackers (see (8:20 a.m.)), American Airlines flight service manager Michael Woodward orders a colleague at Boston's Logan Airport to look up those seat locations on the reservations computer. The names, addresses, phone numbers, and credit cards of these hijackers are quickly discovered. Abdulaziz Alomari is in 9G, Mohamed Atta is in 9D, and Satam Al Suqami is in 10B. 9/11 Commissioner Bob Kerrey notes that from this information, American Airlines officials monitoring the call would probably have known or assumed right away that the hijacking was connected to al-Qaeda.





(Between 8:27 a.m.-8:30 a.m.)


Craig Marquis, listening to information coming from flight attendant Betty Ong on Flight 11 (see (8:21 a.m.)), calls American Airlines' system operations control center in Fort Worth. He says, “She said two flight attendants had been stabbed, one was on oxygen. A passenger had his throat slashed and looked dead and they had gotten into the cockpit.” He relays that Ong said the four hijackers had come from first-class seats: 2A, 2B, 9A, and 9B. She said the wounded passenger was in seat 10B. Note that this conflicts with the seats flight attendant Amy Sweeney gives for the hijackers at about the same time: 9D, 9G, and 10B (see (8:20 a.m.). By 8:27, this information is passed to Gerard Arpey, the effective head of American Airlines that morning (see 8:30 a.m.). By 9:59, it is given to counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke and other top officials (see (9:59 a.m.)).





8:28 a.m.


Boston flight control center calls the FAA's Command Center in Herdon, Virginia, and tells them that it believes Flight 11 has been hijacked and is heading towards New York airspace. At 8:32, the Command Center passes to the Operations Center at FAA headquarters in Washington. Headquarters replies that they've just begun discussing the hijack situation with the main FAA New England office. The Command Center immediately establishes a teleconference between the Boston, New York, and Cleveland centers so that Boston can help the others understand what's happening. Even though by 8:24 Boston is certain Flight 11 is hijacked, NORAD is not yet contacted.





(8:28 a.m.)


American Airlines manager Craig Marquis is talking to Nydia Gonzalez, who in turn is talking to flight attendant Betty Ong on Flight 11. Towards the beginning of a four minute excerpt from the call that starts at 8:27 (see (8:23 a.m.)), Marquis says, “We contacted Air Traffic Control, they are going to handle this as a confirmed hijacking. So they're moving all the traffic out of this aircraft's way …. He turned his transponder off, so we don't have a definitive altitude for him. We're just going by … They seem to think that they have him on a primary radar. They seem to think that he is descending.” So Boston flight control is aware that Flight 11 has been hijacked by this time. <9/11 Commission 1/27/04>





8:30 a.m.


Gerard Arpey, American Airlines' executive vice president for operations, hears from manager Joe Burdepelly who says he has been trying to page him to tell him about a possible hijacking of Flight 11. Burdepelly tells Arpey that he's been told that another manager, Craig Marquis, is in contact with flight attendant Betty Ong on the hijacked flight (see (8:21 a.m.) and (Between 8:27 a.m.-8:30 a.m.)). Arpey learns that Ong has said two other attendants have been stabbed, that two or three passengers are in the cockpit, and more. Arpey is the effective head of American Airlines during the early phase of the crisis, because the company's president is still at home and out of contact. <9/11 Commission, 1/27/04> At some point before Flight 11 crashes, Arpey also hears about the “We have some planes” comment made by the hijackers.





8:30 a.m.


Captain Charles Leidig, the Deputy for Command Center Operations at the National Military Command Center (NMCC) takes over temporarily from Brigadier General Montague Winfield and is effectively in charge of NMCC during the 9/11 crisis. Winfield had requested the previous day that Leidig stand in for him on September 11 starting at this time. Leidig had only started his role as Deputy for Command Center Operations two months previously and had only qualified to stand in for Winfield the previous month. Leidig remains in charge from a few minutes before the 9/11 crisis begins until about 10:30, after the last hijacked plane crashes. He presides over an important crisis response teleconference that has a very slow start (see 9:39 a.m.).





8:30 a.m.


The FAA's Command Center in Herndon, Virginia begins their usual daily senior staff meeting. National Operations Manager Ben Sliney interrupts the meeting to report a possible hijacking in progress, as the Center has been told about the Flight 11 hijacking a few minutes earlier (see 8:28 a.m.). Later, a supervisor interrupts the meeting to report a flight attendant on the hijacked aircraft may have been stabbed (see (Between 8:27 a.m.-8:30 a.m.)). The meeting breaks up before the first WTC crash at 8:46. Apparently no one in the meeting contacts NORAD.





(Around 8:30 a.m.)


Secretary of State Colin Powell leaves Lima, Peru after hearing the news.
Just prior to learning about the 9/11 attacks, many of the US's leaders are scattered across the US and overseas.
President Bush is in Sarasota, Florida.
Vice President Cheney and National Security Advisor Rice are at their offices in the White House.
Defense Secretary Rumsfeld is at his office in the Pentagon, meeting with a delegation from Capitol Hill.
Secretary of State Powell is in Lima, Peru.
CIA Director Tenet is at breakfast with his old friend and mentor, former Senator David Boren (D), at the St. Regis Hotel, three blocks from the White House.
General Henry Shelton, the Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, is flying across the Atlantic on the way to Europe.
Attorney General Ashcroft is flying to Milwaukee. FBI Director Mueller is in his office at FBI headquarters on Pennsylvania Avenue.
Transportation Secretary Norman Mineta is at his office at the Department of Transportation.
Federal Emergency Management Agency Director Joe Allbaugh is at a conference in Montana.
George Bush Sr. is supposedly on a flight from Washington to St. Paul, Minnesota, and has his plane diverted to Milwaukee when the air ban begins.
11) Counterterrorism “tsar” Richard Clarke is at a conference in the Ronald Reagan Building three blocks from the White House.





(8:34 a.m.)


Around this time, Boston flight control attempts to contact an Atlantic City, New Jersey air base, to send fighters after Flight 11. For decades, the air base had two fighters on 24-hour alert status, but this changed in 1998 due to budget cutbacks. The flight controllers don't realize this, and apparently try in vain to reach anyone. It is known that at the time Flight 11 hits the WTC and possibly at this time, two F-16s from this base are practicing bombing runs over an empty stretch of the Pine Barrens near Atlantic City. They are only eight minutes away from New York City, but they aren't alerted to the emerging crisis. Shortly after the second WTC crash at 9:03, the two F-16s are ordered to land and are refitted with air-to-air missiles, then sent aloft. But they relaunch over an hour after the second crash. They're apparently sent to Washington and don't reach it until almost 11:00 (see 10:42 a.m.). After 9/11, one newspaper questions why NORAD “left what seems to be a yawning gap in the midsection of its air defenses on the East Coast—a gap with New York City at the center.”





8:34 a.m.


Boston flight controllers attempt to contact the military through the FAA's Cape Cod facility. Two fighters are on twenty-four hour alert at the Otis Air National Guard Base, at Cape Cod. Boston tries reaching this base so the fighters there can scramble after Flight 11. Apparently they do this before going through the usual NORAD channels. The 9/11 Commission leaves vague what the outcome of this call is. However, the lead pilot at the Otis base, Lt. Col. Timothy Duffy (codenamed Duff), later claims he is given an advance warning to get ready to scramble before the official notification (see (8:46 a.m.)), thanks to a call from Boston flight control (see (8:40 a.m.)).





(8:34 a.m.)


Flight controllers hear a hijacker on Flight 11 say to the passengers: “Nobody move, please, we are going back to the airport. Don't try to make any stupid moves.” <8:33, Boston Globe, 11/23/01, 8:33:59, Guardian, 10/17/01, 8:33:59, New York Times, 10/16/01, 8:34, 9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04> Apparently, shortly after this, the transmission tapes that are automatically recorded are played back to hear the words spoken by the hijackers a few minutes before (see (8:24 a.m.)). Everyone in the Boston flight control center hears the hijackers say “We have some planes.” Ben Sliney, the FAA's National Operations Manager, soon gets word of the message “We have some planes” and later says the phrase haunts him all morning.





(8:35 a.m.)


Air National Guard troops at NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector (NEADS) try to locate hijacked aircraft.
Bush's motorcade leaves for Emma E. Booker Elementary School in Sarasota, Florida. <8:30, Washington Post, 1/27/02, 8:30, BBC, 9/1/02, 8:35, Sarasota Magazine, 9/19/01, 8:39, Washington Times, 10/7/02> He said farewell to the management at the Colony Beach and Tennis Resort at 8:20.





(8:35 a.m.)


Flight attendant Amy Sweeney continues to describe what's happening on board Flight 11 to Michael Woodward at Logan Airport (see (8:20 a.m.)). At some point prior to this, she explains that flight attendants are giving injured people oxygen. They've made an announcement over the PA system asking if there's a doctor or nurse on board. Sweeney is calling from the rear of the coach section, and explains that the passengers in coach, separated by curtains from the violence in first class, are calm and believe there is some type of medical emergency at the front of the plane. Then, at this time, the plane suddenly lurches, tilting all the way to one side, then becoming horizontal again. Then she says it begins a rapid descent. She tries to contact the cockpit again, but still gets no response.





(8:36 a.m.)


On Flight 11, flight attendant Betty Ong reports that the plane tilts all the way on one side and then becomes horizontal again. Flight attendant Amy Sweeney then reports on her phone that the plane has begun a rapid descent.





(8:37 a.m.)


NORAD commander Larry Arnold.
According to the 9/11 Commission, Boston flight control contacts NEADS (NORAD's Northeast Air Defense Sector) at this time. This is apparently the first successful notification of the military about the crisis that morning. Tech. Sgt. Jeremy Powell, a member of the Air National Guard at NEADS, initially takes the call from Boston Center. Boston flight control says, “Hi. Boston Center TMU, we have a problem here. We have a hijacked aircraft headed towards New York, and we need you guys to, we need someone to scramble some F-16s or something up there, help us out.” Powell replies, “Is this real-world or exercise?” Boston answers, “No, this is not an exercise, not a test.” <8:37:52, 9/11 Commission Report, 6/17/04, BBC, 9/1/02> Powell gives the phone to Lt. Colonel Dawne Deskins, regional Mission Crew Chief for the Vigilant Guardian exercise (see (6:30 a.m.)). Deskins later says that initially she and “everybody” else at NEADS thinks the call is part of Vigilant Guardian. After the phone call she has to clarify to everyone that it is not a drill. NORAD commander Major General Larry Arnold in Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida, also says that when he hears of the hijacking at this time, “The first thing that went through my mind was, is this part of the exercise? Is this some kind of a screw-up?” Deskins recalls, “I picked up the line and I identified myself to the Boston Center controller, and he said, we have a hijacked aircraft and I need to get you some sort of fighters out here to help us out.” However, the timing of this vital notification is in some dispute. Deskins herself claimed the call occurred at 8:31. Another report later states, “Shortly after 8:30 a.m., behind the scenes, word of a possible hijacking various stations of NORAD.” FAA Administrator Jane Garvey testified in 2003 that the FAA notified NORAD at 8:34. NORAD on the other hand, originally claimed they were first notified at 8:40, and this was widely reported in the media prior to the 9/11 Commission's report. <8:40, NORAD, 9/18/01, 8:40, AP, 8/19/02, 8:40, BBC, 9/1/02, 8:40, Newsday, 9/10/02> If the 8:37 time is accurate, this means flight controllers don't notify NORAD until 24 minutes after radio contact is lost (see (8:13 a.m.)), about 17 minutes after the transponder signal is lost and the flight goes far off course (see (Between 8:13- 8:21 a.m.)and(8:20 a.m.), and 13 minutes after voices of the hijackers in the cockpit remove any doubt the plane has been hijacked (see (8:24 a.m.)).





(After 8:37 a.m.)


NORAD gives the command to scramble fighters after Flight 11 after being notified (see (8:37 a.m.)). Lt. Colonel Dawne Deskins at NEADS tells Colonel Robert Marr, head of NEADS, “I have FAA on the phone, the shout line, Boston Center. They said they have a hijacked aircraft.” Marr then calls Major General Larry Arnold at NORAD's command Center in Tyndall Air Force Base, Florida, and says, “Boss, I need to scramble Otis .” Arnold recalls, “I said go ahead and scramble them, and we'll get the authorities later.” Arnold then calls NORAD headquarters to report. Then, seeing the proper authorization, NEADS calls Canadian Captain Mike Jellinek at NORAD's Colorado headquarters. Jellinek is sitting near Canadian Air Force Major General Rick Findley, director of combat operations there. Findley's staff is “already on high alert” because of a joint US-Canada exercise known as Vigilant Guardian (see (6:30 a.m.)), and another joint exercise known as Operation Northern Vigilance (see (9:00 a.m.)). Jellinek gets the thumbs up authorization from Findley to send fighters after Flight 11. Findley later states, “At that point all we thought was we've got an airplane hijacked and we were going to provide an escort as requested. We certainly didn't know it was going to play out as it did.” Findley remains in charge of NORAD headquarters while his staff feeds information to NORAD commander-in-chief Ralph Eberhart stationed in Florida.





8:37 a.m.


Flight controllers ask the United Airlines Flight 175 pilots to look for a lost American Airlines plane 10 miles to the south— a reference to Flight 11. They respond that they can see it. They are told to keep away from it. Just prior to this, Flight 11 passes from Boston flight control airspace into New York flight control airspace. John Hartling, the New York flight controller put in charge of the hijacked flight, later recounts being told that Flight 11 was hijacked: “I didn't believe him. Because I didn't think that that stuff would happen anymore, especially in this country.”





(8:38 a.m.)


Flight 11 pilot John Ogonowski's periodic activation of the talk-back button, begun around 8:14, stops around this time. It is suggested that means this is when the hijackers replace him as pilot.





(8:40 a.m.)


Major Daniel Nash (codenamed Nasty) and Lt. Col. Timothy Duffy (codenamed Duff) are the two F-15 pilots who would scramble after Flight 11 and then Flight 175. Apparently they get several informal calls warning to get ready. Nash says that at this time, a colleague at the Otis Air National Guard Base tells him that a flight out of Boston has been hijacked, and to be on alert. NEADS senior technician Jeremy Powell, told about the hijacking at 8:37 (see (8:37 a.m.)), says that he telephones Otis Air Base at some point after that and tells it to upgrade its “readiness posture.” Robert Marr, head of NEADS, also says that after being told of the hijacking at 8:37, he says, “I'll call 1st Air Force and let them know we've got a potential incident.” Boston flight control tried calling the Otis base directly at 8:34, though the result of that call remains unclear (see 8:34 a.m.). Duffy recalls being warned: “I was just standing up by the ops desk and I was told I had a phone call. I asked who it was and they said the Tower calling and something about a hijacking. It was Flight American 11, a 767, out of Boston going to California. At the time we ran in and got suited up.” Duffy says, “Halfway to the jets, we got ‘battle stations’ … ” which means to get ready for action. The actual scramble order doesn't come until they're already waiting in the fighters: “We went out, we hopped in the jets and we were ready to go—standby for a scramble order if we were going to get one.” Duffy continues, “I briefed Nasty on the information I had about the American Airlines flight. About 4-5 minutes later, we got the scramble order and took off.” However, the official notification to scramble these fighters doesn't come until 8:46. The six or more minute delay between unofficial and official notification has not been explained (see (8:46 a.m.)).

(9:08-9:13 a.m.)


The two F-15s sent to New York City to find Flight 11 are ordered to hover in a 150-mile chunk of air space off the coast of Long Island. There are contradictory accounts over whether they reach New York City before being directed over the ocean (see (9:08 -9:13 a.m.)). Pilot Major Daniel Nash states, “Neither the civilian controller or the military controller knew what they wanted us to do.” At 9:09, the NEADS Mission Crew Commander learns of the second WTC crash, and decides to send the fighters to New York City. The 9/11 Commission says the fighters remain in a holding pattern over the ocean until 9:13 while the FAA clears the airspace. The fighters then establish a Combat Air Patrol over the city at 9:25. It's unclear what the fighters do between 9:13 and 9:25, as the distance between the two locations is unknown but presumably not large. These fighters remain over New York City for the next four hours.

[seatnineb]

47. No.

And....

No wonder this is the case.....

A base spokeswoman, Lt. Col. Margaret Quenneville, declined to comment on how many jets were activated yesterday.
http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline/2001/capecodtimes091201.html

As it turns out....

You are right.....

There were other f-15's that were scrambled.....

Several residents of the Pickerel Cove neighborhood, which is near flight paths taken by the F-15s, sensed increased fighter activity.
"Today wasn't typical," said a resident who declined to give his name. "Today was jets leaving all day long."

But not until after 10:00am on 9/11.....

Another neighborhood resident, Bill Thompson, said he noticed increased activity around 10 or 10:30 a.m. yesterday(9/11), with the fighters taking off in pairs.


So I guess that you would have us believe that the nurse must have been finishing her night shift after 10:00am on 9/11............possibly after having done a 16 hour shift.....?

Na....I don't think so....

Not when she says something like this:
"As I was taking it all in,the second plane hit"

Not a darn thing you can do about it Vince......

[Sweet Pea]

48. And this is supposed to mean what?

I'm sorry...I'm trying really hard to find a thread in this I can pull to gain some purchase...just a toe hold to understand what the point is you are trying to make....something to dig my fingernails in to hang on.

So we have a nurse who was coming home from a night shift and saw a bunch of F-15's take off....but we don't know what time she was passing by the base but we DO know it was before the second plane hit. We also don't know what the flight schedules were for the squadrons that day. Turns out we really don't know much about this particular quote. We also know some military exercises were going on that morning/day - perhaps these aircraft were part of that? Perhaps it was routing scheduled flights for the training areas they work in? I don't know. Do you?

What is the point?

edited for grammar

[seatnineb]

49. I know Sweething.....

According to the official reports.......

Otis only had 2 jets that were ready between the 1st and 2nd plane hitting the towers.....

But an eye witness sees something rather different....

She sees 8 f-15's taking off at some point between 8:52 and 9:03am(possibly even earlier) on 9/11/01 from this same Otis airforce base......

Need I say more....

[k-robjoe]

50. Flashback

For "newcomers". Paul Thompson posted this a while back :

----------------------------------------------
"So many contradictions

For instance, this one from the BBC piece:

Neither pilot at this time has any reason to believe that this is other than a routine exercise. Duff: "It's just peacetime. We're not thinking anything real bad is going to happen out there."

compared to the same pilot's recollection a few months before:

A fellow officer tells Lt. Col. Timothy Duffy (codenamed Duff) before takeoff, "This looks like the real thing." Duffy recalls, "It just seemed wrong. I just wanted to get there. I was in full-blower all the way."(Aviation Week and Space Technology, 6/3/02)"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x13699
-----------------------------------------------

[Sweet Pea]

52. The way some people can...

find the ONE kernel of absolute truth in a contradictory and conflicting morass of statements, quotes, witnesses, opinions, thoughts, opining, suppositions, suggestions and otherwise convoluted thought at a time when when the fog of events clouded many of the minds that were THERE much less those who weren't but are experts at figuring out what happened is simply freakin' me out...lol

[Sweet Pea]

51. No.....

actually, you don't.

:P

[LARED]

25. So if not all Hearst publications are propaganda tools,

but Popular Mechanics is; how do you tell the difference?

Also, you implied PM was a propaganda tool because it was a Hearst publication. Is that the only Hearst print media that is a tool of the RW?

Again how can you tell the difference?

[k-robjoe]

10. Does anyone know

which tape Skousen is talking about? ( If there is such a tape, and it´s genuine, why doesn´t he give the URL? ) :

>"I have listened to the private transcripts of the radio talk between Cleveland Center and all the other airliners controlled by ATC in that sector (including Flight 93). Even the 9/11 commission refused to address this private tape, which was recorded by one private jet that was in the area, and is still available on the internet. Nowhere in that transcript is any private aircraft asked by Cleveland Center to follow or descend with Flight 93. In fact, the one airliner that was closest to Flight 93 was asked by Cleveland Center to verify visually the condition of Flight 93 after the Center and all other aircraft on that frequency heard the pilot of the aircraft announce that "there was a bomb on board." The aircraft acknowledged seeing Flight 93 in the distance and then suddenly announced that he observed an explosion. This was while Flight 93 was at altitude, confirming reports from ATC controllers who had vectored an F-16 to Flight 93, and witnesses who saw the shoot down from the ground."

[AZCat]

18. I don't know, but it's certainly possible

The ATC radio conversations aren't confidential so it is possible someone has a tape of the relevant conversation. In fact, you don't have to be in a plane to listen to ATC - you can even listen to live ATC conversations for certain airports on the internet.



Edit:fixed link

[pberq]

24. Stand down undisputed

The key point here (and the one that none of the debunkers on this board have disputed) is about the stand down.

I personally go along more with those who say that it was the wargames that kept the fighters away, but either way there has been no explanation given for the complete breakdwon in SOP.

Who needs to get into arguments about all the other issues when this one about the stand down so clearly shows there is a government cover up? The fact that PM would print such obvious lies as this calls into question everything else in the article:

"PM tried to make the case that NORAD had never vigorously followed standing orders to intercept hijacked aircraft, and that their high definition radars were all pointed outside the US boundaries (like a doughnut). Neither is true. There were dozens of intercepts in the two years prior to 9/11 (PM said there was only one) and NORAD has complete radar coverage within the US."

[DU GrovelBot]

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[undergroundrailroad]

53. Locking.

Copyright

Undergroundrailroad
DU Moderator
911/FA/I/P Affairs