DulceDecorum says:
From the media and the FAA airman registry database,
we learn that Victor Saracini met his wife Ellen Hildebrand Saracini,
while he was working as a flight instructor at Louisiana Tech from 1980-82
despite the fact that FAA records clearly demonstrate that
he did not get his flight instructors license until 1992,
which is over ten years later.
Saracini first FAA cert is that of a Mechanic airframe power-plant and was issued on 10/22/1983 which is one whole year after he gave up teaching at Louisiana Tech.
AZCat says:
The FAA airman registry database does not list the original dates of the certificates, but instead lists the most recent version of each certificate. The Mechanic Airframe power-plant certificate for Mr. Saracini was last issued on 10/22/1983.
I checked this by running queries on several people I know who have been instructors for years, and the certificate listings for them are only the most recent ones.
This is logical, because if Mr. Saracini stopped being an instructor, he would have had little reason to keep his certificates up to date.
The FAA says:
Victor John Saracini
Med First 4/2001 Must have available glasses for near vision
DOI 2/15/94 ATP multi engine land commercial single engine private single engine
A/A320 A/B747-4 A/B757 A/B767 A/CA-212
DOI 5/20/1992 Flight instructor airplane single multi engine land instrument aeroplane
DOI 4/14/1986 Flight engineer turbojet-powered
DOI 1/30/1984 Ground instructor advanced instrument
DOI 10/22/1983 Mechanic airframe power-plant
http://162.58.35.241/aadatabase/login.asp Ellen Hildebrand Saracini says:
Victor Saracini also possessed a life-long love of learning, she said. He served in the Navy, where he trained as a pilot; he earned a bachelor's degree in general studies from New Mexico Tech in 1976; and he took engineering, science and music classes while at Louisiana Tech.
"Victor was very intelligent," Mrs. Saracini said. "He would have been a student his whole life long if he was able to."
She chose Louisiana Tech to sponsor the scholarship because she wanted it to be associated with a four-year degree program.
Plus, she said, "He enjoyed flying and teaching there" at Tech.
She herself had earned a two-year associate degree in science and aviation technology from St. Petersburg Junior College before enrolling at Tech with plans to obtain her flight instructor's rating.
One of her flight instructors from Florida, Pete Maniscalco, had since become an instructor at Tech and introduced her to Victor Saracini.
"I met Vic and I guess we both fell in love pretty quickly," she recalled. "He got a job in Pennsylvania, and we both moved there."
He was a New Jersey native; she, a New York native who moved to Florida at an early age.
http://www.latech.edu/newspublisher/news/news-archive-august-2002.shtmlDale Sistrunk,
head of the Louisiana Tech aviation department says:
Victor Saracini, the pilot of United Airlines Flight 175 that crashed into the World Trade Center South Tower, was a student at Tech in 1982.
According to the Sept. 21 issue of The (Monroe) News-Star, Saracini was at Tech for several quarters in order to build up flight time that allowed him to become a commercial pilot. Saracini did not graduate from Tech, however.
"No one (in the department) knew about (Saracini being a former student) until alumni told us," Dale Sistrunk, head of the aviation department, said. "He came here in 1982, before I got here."
http://eb.journ.latech.edu/archives/fall01/1004/output/n-7.htmNo, no, Dale. You got it wrong.
Victor Saracini was TEACHING at Louisiana Tech......
Saracini was a flight instructor at Louisiana Tech from 1980-82. His widow, Ellen Hildebrand Saracini, said she established the scholarship to commemorate his love of flying.
http://www.tnonline.com/archives/news/2002/08.27/911.html.... BEFORE he enrolled as a student at Louisiana Tech.
Victor worked as a flight instructor at the university. While he was a student in the aviation program in 1981, he and Ellen fell in love. They have two daughters, Kirsten, 15, and Brielle, 12.
To donate to the Victor Saracini Flight Scholarship, contact Dale Sistrunk at the LTU Professional Aviation Department, P.O. Box 3181 TS, Ruston, LA 71272.
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/113-09112003-157577.html.... and everyone agrees that he LEFT sometime in 1982.
PALM HARBOR -- Like tens of millions of Americans, Bernard and Bernadette Hildebrand watched in horror Tuesday as television networks played and replayed the image of United Airlines Flight 175 crashing into the south tower of the World Trade Center.
From the first, they hoped the Boeing 767 wasn't being flown by their son-in-law, pilot Victor J. Saracini.
But when they called their daughter and son-in-law's home in Lower Makefield, Pa., a United employee answered. He passed the phone to one of their other daughters, who delivered the grim news:
Saracini, 51, was the captain of the plane, which carried 65 passengers and crew.
"In the beginning, you absolutely cannot imagine that it would be your son-in-law," said Mrs. Hildebrand, 75, a retired bank manager. Over and over, she said, she kept asking, "Are they sure?"
"You dreaded admitting that you knew," said her husband, 75, a retired salesman.
On Wednesday, the couple, who have lived in Palm Harbor for about eight years, ..
http://www.stpetersburgtimes.com/News/091301/TampaBay/Palm_Harbor_couple_lo.shtmlBernard Hildebrand, 75, retired salesman.
Bernadette Hidebrand, 75, retired bank manager.
Hmmmm, if in 2001,
they had only lived in Palm Harbor for eight years,
then the Hildebrands only moved there in about 1993.
Victor must have felt very close to Mom & Pop Hildebrand
since he gave this address to the FAA.
3227 MACGREGOR DR
PALM HARBOR FL 34684
OK,
lets find out more about high school drop-out
who was born on August 29, 1950.
AFL-CIO says:
“Vic served, to those of us who knew him, as a symbol of where hard work and determination can lead,” says Schaccfman, describing Saracini as a man who worked his way up to Navy Aviation Officer Candidate School years after dropping out of high school.
Saracini ultimately became “a proud ALPA member,” says Frank Lyons, a friend and United pilot co-worker. Saracini’s big break as a pilot came in 1985 after he applied for a job at United. That year, when ALPA members went on strike, the airline notified 574 pilots on its applicants list they would get the striking pilots’ jobs if they crossed the picket lines. Saracini and 569 other pilots refused and became known as the “United 570.” He was hired by United after the strike.
http://www.aflcio.org/aboutaflcio/magazine/union_heroes_inmemory.cfmNew Mexico Tech says:
Victor J. Saracini (76, Bachelor of General Studies) was the captain of United Airlines flight 175 that was taken over by hijackers on Sept. 11, 2001, and crashed into one of the World Trade Center Buildings. After Vic graduated from Tech, he served in the Navy, where he trained as a pilot. He worked for United for about 16 years.
http://infohost.nmt.edu/mainpage/alumni/sept11.htmlCongress finds the following:
(1) Victor J. Saracini was an esteemed, decorated officer with the United States Navy, ending his military career in the Naval Reserve at Naval Air Station Willow Grove, Pennsylvania.
(2) Joining United Airlines in 1985, Mr. Saracini worked his way up the ranks to captain of the United Airline's Boeing 757-767 fleet.
(3) Victor Saracini was the captain of United Airlines Flight 175, one of the four commercial jets hijacked by terrorists on September 11, 2001.
(4) At 9:05 a.m., the Los Angeles-bound airplane flew into the South Tower of the World Trade Center, killing all people onboard, including Captain Victor Saracini.
(5) On September 11, 2001, the United States lost Victor Saracini, a devoted aviator, a distinguished veteran, and a proud defender of America's freedom.
http://www.theorator.com/bills108/hr1128.htmlhttp://www.theorator.com/bills108/s615.htmlJack G. Schachtman of Yardley, PA says:
It was the fall of 1975. The Vietnam War was over. Bruce Springsteen had just come out with his album "Born to Run." We were newly commissioned officers, Ensigns in The United States Navy. We were in Pensacola, Florida; home of Naval Aviation. ......
Here is where I met Victor Saracini.
We began training by having to pass a number of physical tests. These included a timed distance run partially through sand, an obstacle course, and swimming a mile in a flight suit. These tests were interspersed between classes we attended learning how an airplane works. After all, that is why we were there in the first place. During this initial training all "studs" were required to live in the BOQ (Bachelor Officers Quarters). These quarters were essentially dorm rooms.
After completing the initial phase of training, we were split up by groups. Vic and I were in the group destined to become Naval Flight Officers (NFO). .....
Vic, Billy "Whiteshoes" Johnson and I got an apartment on Pensacola Beach. While it was close enough to the base, it provided an oasis for us to escape the rigors and pressure of this intense flight training. .....
Vic, Billy, and I completed our NFO training in June of 1976. We received our wings at a ceremony held in the Naval Aviation Museum on N.A.S. Pensacola. After seeing many of our fellow students wash out during all phases of our training, we were so proud to finally get our wings.
From that point we all moved on. I moved to San Diego and became a Tactical Coordinator on an S-3A. I lost track of Vic and Billy.
http://www.victorsaracini.com/u_s__navy.htmJust in case you are wondering,
there really does appear to be someone by that name.
CAS & Associates
Carol Schachtman
Jack Schachtman
Yardley, PA
19067
Operating States: DE, NJ, PA
Service Area: Philadelphia, S.New Jersey,Del
Some us really DO double check these characters.
Which brings us back to 1976.
Victor Saracini completed his Naval Flight officer training in Pensacola, Florida in June 1976?
But-- but New Mexico Tech says that he received a Bachelor of General Studies from them that same year.
Aw heck,
if Mohammed Atta could manage to be in two places at the same time,
then why the heck should I complain when
a home-grown boy pulls off the same trick.
Atta-boy Victor!!
Victor Saracini and Jack G. Schachtman of Yardley, PA lost contact when Jack moved to San Diego and became a Tactical Coordinator on an S-3A.
That is really sad because
Ted and Lynn Clough say:
Lynn and I have some great memories of Vic. I first met him when we were going through S-3A training at VS-41 in San Diego in 1976.
http://www.victorsaracini.com/u_s__navy.htm Oh well,
moving right along...
We became great friends, especially when we found out we were both going to VS-22. We both arrived on the Saratoga mid-cruise in 1977 and roomed together in an 8-man bunk room. .....
Vic and I rented a house together, and Lynn and I even lived there with him for a few months after getting married in March, 1978. ....
We left on another 6-month cruise later that year and again were roommates, this time in a 6-man bunk room. By then I was an aircraft commander (pilot) and Vic was a mission commander (NFO), so we flew many times together .....
When we returned from that cruise, Vic set about preparing for his second aviation career as a pilot. I give him a lot of credit for working his way up through his ratings in his off time, building time riding, instructing, flying corporate and eventually commuters before he got hired by United.
This was not a good time in the airline world and there were thousands of pilots on furlough as a result of deregulation from 1980 until hiring started to pick up around 1985. We parted ways when Vic left active duty and Jacksonville, but kept in touch with Christmas cards and e-mails over the years.
We were horrified along with the rest of the world after the events of Sept 11, but even more so when we heard that Vic was one of the Captains. Ironically, the Capt of the American flight that hit the Pentagon , Chic Burlingame was also in an F-4 squadron on that first cruise on the Saratoga, so we both knew him also.
http://www.victorsaracini.com/u_s__navy.htmSo,
Victor Saracini was a member of VS-22....
On January 6, 1976, after 22 years of flying the S-2 Tracker, VS-22 sailed from NAS Mayport, Florida to the Mediterranean Sea onboard USS SARATOGA as the first deployed S-3A Viking squadron.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/agency/navy/vs-22.htmOn 1 Apr 1973, VS-22 joined Air Antisubmarine Wing ONE, the precursor of Sea Control Wing, U.S. Atlantic Fleet. On 8 Nov 1973, VS-22 transferred to NAS Cecil Field, FL and on 6 Jan 1976, after 22 years of flying the S-2, VS-22 became the first deployed S-3A Viking squadron.
http://www02.clf.navy.mil/vs22/History/command_history.htmUSS Saratoga says:
On September 11, 2001, Chic Burlingame, captain of American Airlines Flight 77 that was en route from Dulles International Airport near Washington to Los Angeles, was killed when his airplane was deliberately crashed by terrorists into the southwest face of the Pentagon E ring. Burlingame served aboard USS SARATOGA in the 1970s as a pilot with VF 103 - the Sluggers.
Another Saratoga pilot was brutally murdered by the terrorist attack on September 11. Victor Saracini was the Captain of United Airlines Flight 175, a Boeing 767 bound from Boston to Los Angeles. This plane was crashed into the south tower of the World Trade Center shortly after 9 a.m. ET.
http://www.saratogamuseum.org/911.htmlAhh,
Burlingame was a member of VF 103 aka the Sluggers.
http://www.anft.net/f-14/f14-squadron-vf103.htmAnd THIS
is what Mr. Charles Burlingame III is alleged to have made a habit of flying.
Ooh look. AA. And a lightening bolt down the middle.
http://www.almansur.com/jollyrogers/bravoturkeys.htmWe will get back to Burlingame on some other day.
We have not finished with Mister Victor.
It must have been very difficult to find people willing to become military pilots in the mid seventies.
I say that because both Victor Saracini and Chic Burlingame has miserable vision -- at least according to their FAA rap-sheets.
Nevertheless, lets check out the planes they were flying in their Navy days.
The Navy's ES-3A is a high winged, jet powered, twin engine, carrier-based electronic reconnaissance mission aircraft equipped with folding wings, a launch bar, and a tailhook. The heart of the Shadow is an avionics suite based on the Aries II system of the land-based EP-3E Orion. The Shadow's fuselage is packed with sensor stations and processing equipment, and the exterior sports over 60 antennae. The ES-3A Shadow crew is comprised of a pilot, an NFO, and two systems operators. Advanced sensor, navigation and communications systems allow the ES-3A's four-person crew to collect extensive data, and distribute that high-quality information through a variety of channels to the carrier battle group. This gives the battle group commander a clear picture of potential airborne, surface and sub-surface threats.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/intell/systems/es-3_shadow.htmFOLDING WINGS?
Then that thing can collapse itself like a Swiss Army knife.
So THAT's where the Penta-wings went. Oops sorry. Wrong plane.
TIMELINE
VICTOR JOHN SARACINI
Must have available glasses for near vision
1976 Graduates from New Mexico Tech with Bachelor of General Studies.
1976 JUNE Graduated from Naval Officer Training in Pensacola, Florida.
1976 Commenced S-3A training at VS-41 in San Diego, California.
1977 Arrived mid-cruise on the USS Saratoga.
1978 Second trip on USS Saratoga as mission commander(NFO) for Vs-22.
1980-85 Thousands of pilots on furlough as a result of deregulation.
DOI 10/22/1983 Mechanic airframe power-plant.
1985 Vic began his career at United as a DC-8 Flight Engineer.
DOI 1/30/1984 Ground instructor advanced instrument
DOI 4/14/1986 Flight engineer turbojet-powered
1989 upgraded to First Officer on the Boeing 757/767 fleet.
DOI 5/20/1992 Flight instructor single & multi engine instrument
DOI 2/15/94 ATP multi engine, A/A320 A/B747-4 A/B757 A/B767 A/CA-212
commercial & private single engine
1998 Vic moved back to the Boeing 767/757 fleet as a Captain.
2001 SEPTEMBER Disappeared without trace.
There are discrepancies.
Apparently Victor was teaching
long before he acquired his Flight Instructor certificate
and he also appears to have been flying passenger transport
long before he received his Airline Transport Pilot certificate.
DulceDecorum stands by the initial posting.
There is NO reason whatsoever for Victor Saracini to have placed himself in the position of having expired certificates and we are told that he worked diligently to better himself and improve his civil aviation skills.
Furthermore the FAA states CLEARLY on the website that DOI stands for Date of INITIAL Issue.
DulceDecorum hereby calls upon AZCat to retract:
I have explained how DulceDecorum could double-check my work, but the presence of this argument in this thread indicates that such double-checking has not yet occurred.