Bobby Eberle and American Airlines Flight 77

[starroute]

Xymphora this morning had an entry saying, "The gay aspect is a red herring. The deep politics aspect of the story is the connection between the White House, conservative e-mail harvester and fundraiser Bruce W. Eberle, and GOPUSA President Bobby Eberle. Bobby Eberle's eyewitness testimony of Flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon is the big break we've been waiting for, the first tiny window into the American conspiracy behind 9-11."

http://xymphora.blogspot.com/2005/02/gannongate-and-9-11.html

That really caught my eye, because I hadn't heard anything about Eberle and Flight 77. I just did a DU search and found it's been mentioned in a few recent threads, but usually with people suggesting Eberle was lying for purposes of self-promotion. This Xymphora entry is the first thing I've seen suggesting that it has a far deeper significance.

I also did a little Googling and found it wasn't just something Eberle came up with months later. He was on record in his GOPUSA column by September 12. See
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/F77pentagon.html
and http://www.geocities.com/someguyyoudontknow33/witnesses.htm

The route from where I'm staying to my conference hotel runs right by the Pentagon. As we slowly crept along in traffic at about 9:30 am, we rounded a bend and had the Pentagon in our sites -- right in front of us. . . .

Riding in a convertable with the top down, I then heard a tremendously loud noise from behind me and to my left. I looked back and saw a jet airliner flying very low and very fast. It's amazing what can run through your mind in just a matter of seconds. As a pilot, I can't help but look at an airplane and think about airplane topics. . . .

The aircraft was so very low -- as an aircraft would be on its final approach to an airport. However, if you have watched any aircraft come in for a landing, even though the aircraft is descending, it is angled up slightly. This aircraft was angled downward. In addition, landing gear would also be visible on a aircraft so low and so near landing. This aircraft had its landing gear retracted. Finally, an aircraft on final approach is traveling rather slowly. This aircraft sped by very loudly and very quickly.

All of this flashed in my mind as the aircraft passed from behind my left shoulder to in front of me. It was then that the other events of the morning crystallized in the realization that tragedy was about to occur. With all of these images spinning in my head, the only words that came out of my mouth were "Oh no!" With that, the airliner crashed into the Pentagon and exploded.

It's always seemed to me that the main problem with the highly tinfoil theories about Flight 77 was the large number of eyewitness accounts. But many of those eyewitnesses were people who were at some distance, looking from hotel windows, or otherwise limited in their perspective. There were only a few people who claimed to have seen the crash in detail and close up. And only one of those was a pilot, an aerospace engineer, and riding as a passenger in a convertible with the top down, giving him an absolutely unobstructed view.

And that one cream of the crop witness was Bobby Eberle?

Where's that hat? :tinfoilhat:

[murray hill farm]

1. OMG!!!

When will this country get their heads out of the sand...and just see this stuff...it gets worse and worse...and no one collectively responds?

[Bolo Boffin]

2. Many more eyewitnesses to the crash than Eberle

Many, many more. Some who post right here at Democratic Underground.

The rain, she fall on the just and unjust.
World events happen in the view of the righteous and the foul.

[DulceDecorum]

19. That particular DU poster & Bobby Eberle & Alfred S. Regnery

all claim that the plane dive-bombed the Pentagon and entered vertically.
Alfred S. Regnery publishes conservative screeds
such as those written by one Barbara Olson,
wife of Ted Olson, Solicitor General.

Incidentally, Baby the Harpy is not the first relative that of Ted that has vanished under highly mysterious circumstances.
Go google
"LINDA. E." "December 11, 1998"

Regnery, Alfred S.
As I approached the Pentagon, which was still not quite in view, listening on the radio to the first reports about the World Trade Center disaster in New York, a jetliner, apparently at full throttle and not more than a couple of hundred yards above the ground, screamed overhead.
Although airplanes regularly fly over the Pentagon on their way to Reagan National Airport, just a mile or two south, this plane was too low and going too fast. As I watched it disappear behind bridges and concrete barriers I knew it was about to crash.
"Eyewitness at the Pentagon," by Alfred S. Regnery, The Week of September 17, 2001, published but no longer existent at: http://www.humanevents.org/articles/09-17-01/regnery.html

[Hapameli]

43. Regnery, Alfred S. - I came across this name in another thread last night

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=104&topic_id=3137074&mesg_id=3151085

Press Release Source: Regnery Publishing, Inc.


Someone started a new thread attempting to tie it together here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3153687

[starroute]

27. Yes, there were dozens of witnesses . . . but . . .

Most of them only claimed to have gotten a split-second glimpse, followed by a fireball. Or to have seen a plane from their hotel window that then went behind a a building.

Only a relative handful reported having had a good, unobstructed, close-up view and been able to observe details. And of those few, the absolute best was an aerospace engineer, riding in a convertible with the top down, and perfectly placed to see the entire thing. And that absolutely el primo witness turns out to be none other than Bobby Eberle. That in itself is a fact worthy of consideration.

A few points here:

One is that eyewitness accounts, especially of fast-moving and unexpected events, are notoriously unreliable. Psychology professors have been known to stage "incidents" in their classrooms and then ask the students what they saw in order to establish just how unreliable their accounts can be. What's more, people tend to reprocess their memories after the fact, making them more coherent and drawing in information learned elsewhere, and from then on "recall" the event in this reprocessed form rather than as they actually experienced it.

A second is that it only takes one anomaly to falsify a theory. No matter how well a theory holds together, and how much it seems to explain, if one stubborn fact refuses to make sense, the whole thing needs to be re-examined. That is true of science and of murder investigations alike.

A third is that we've heard a lot lately about framing the debate and the ways in which Gannon was used to set up the administration's position on various issues without it being apparent that this was what was happening.

If you did want to get an official version of 9/11 out before the public, get it accepted as received truth, and even have it influence later reports by eyewitnesses, what better way than to have an expert witness claim to have been on the scene and publish a detailed report the very next day? And then, if necessary to have the same witness show up again six months later to poke fun at any doubters of the official story? (See http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/bobby/2002/bobby_0401.shtml )

I don't have an alternate theory of Flight 77 ready to hand that accounts for all the other eyewitnesses. But I do think that the central place of Bobby Eberle in the conventional story undermines the entire edifice and raises cause for it to be reexamined.

One thing that might be done would be to go through all the prime witnesses and see if any others have interesting connections like Eberle.

Another would be to consider the question of whether Eberle was really on the scene as he claims -- to look into the schedule of "the American Conservative Union's 'Policy Boot Camp' from September 9-11, 2001" and to try to find out who the friend was that was driving him from Virginia in to Washington with the top down. That gets a lot more complex -- and far, far more tinfoil -- but the answers could be extremely interesting.

Among other things, it's been a problem so far to see any real connection between "Gannon" in the DC area and Eberle out in Texas. September 11, 2001 is one point at which we now know Eberle to have been in the Washington/northern Virginia area. And what's more, it was at an event put on by the American Conservative Union. That's a name that keeps coming up in connection with GOPUSA. Kerri Houston of the GOPUSA board has a connection with the ACU and I believe there are other links as well. Even if the Flight 77 anomaly doesn't amount to anything, that ACU "Policy Boot Camp" could turn out to be highly relevant.

[KharmaTrain]

29. Eberle Misinformation

People here assume Eberle was a witness. I contend this is just more echo chamber blustering in the drumbeat up to the Iraq war. Remember, Eberle's job is to distort. At that time, Job #1 was Iraq = 9/11 and if you re-read this article in that context, it sure sounds like he's echoing the mantra that there was an Iraqi connection to the attack...and HE saw it (his angle).

I've googled through a bunch of Eberle's articles...many have vanished, but caches are wonderful things! Seems like he's everywhere...or contends he is.

Regnery is the corporate printing arm that profits from the dirty tricksters and tricks. I only hope we get to the level where we can start exposing this company as a Repugnican front.

[UL_Approved]

3. I want to repost this on my thread about intellignece failure and Gannon

This is the kind of stuff that I am talking about.

This is the reason that we need to dig deeper into the Gannon/Guckert story.

You found a real treasure here. This Bobby Eberle guy sure gets around, doesn't he.

The thread:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3152360

[staticstopper]

77. It never occured to me that the 911 operation could

be just a public relation stunt to get the military into the M. East but it makes sense after seeing how horridly they've treated the ppl of Iraq. Did they really just dust off old "Op Northwoods" and replace Cuba with OBL? If so this indeed could be an exciting direction to go in with the investigation.

Gannon came to DC right around 911, right - I'd like a closer look at that time-line. The Kossacks got the general timeline down pretty good. He may be what he claims to be - "My history is not linear/ I had clearances."

Xymphora insistence that the sex part is just a red herring makes sense now. I thought he was crazy to ignore it (because Gannon could become w's Monica if we dig...) when it first broke. It looks like Gee Gee was screaming to have his escort history discovered, because IF he really was just an aging dom/prostitute looking to make it big with his right-wing buddies, he would have taken his porno web sites down when he got the cherry WH gig. And would not have asked such stupid questions.

It is perfect way to do the dirty work - "soil" one of their messengers (he was a closeted republican gay man anyway, known by the fact that he played softball for a gay bar's sponcered team in the late 80's) with an online bizz just before they do the propaganda "tricks" then when ppl start asking questions over his pro war or Plame writings (Rove was disapointed they did not catch on at that point, so he stuck him right under their noses at press conferences) we all get distracted by a juicy escort story. Then afterward anything that we catch him do like the CBS thing, most upstanding reporters turn away from the stench because they don't want to get sullied in the unpleasant world of online gay escorts...it may hurt their "career"

It was another brillant plan.
(why are they so good at "plans" anyway?)

[liberal N proud]

4. WOW!

Now how do we get the MSM to tie the ends together?

[drdtroit]

21. Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ...!!! n/t

[whistle]

5. Uhmmm, Bobby Eberle, the CEO of GOPUSA as the only....

...up close eye witness of the crash.

<snip>

Bobby Eberle is President and CEO of GOPUSA, a privately-held corporation dedicated to promoting the conservative political philosophy through the distribution of conservative news, information, and commentary via the Internet and special events.

<link> http://www.gopusa.com/commentary/bobby/bio.shtml

Explain to me why Eberle's testimony should have any more credibility than the dozens of other eye witnesses who swear they say something quite different that day.

[rinsd]

6. If this is whether a plane hit the Pentagon, its a waste of time......

People have made eloquent arguments of LIHOP and MIHOP.

But theory that there was no plane involved with the Pentagon is absolute idiocy.

See Pop Mechanics

http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1227842.html?page=6&c=y

Here's the 9/11 research centers view

http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pm/#pentagon

[DenverDem]

9. Popular Mechanics is full of shit.

If you want to refute something, cite a source with an ounce of credibility.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[DenverDem]

24. Not questioning a plane hit the pentagon.

The PM piece is still completely flawed and slanted and causes your argument to be tainted.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

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[DenverDem]

28. You are citing a piece that ignores the physics of the incident,

uses straw man arguments and serves merely to prop up the "official story" while claiming to be scientific.

By citing it, you lose all credibility.

[AZCat]

30. Please enlighten the rest of us

What physics would the PM article be ignoring?

[Name removed]

35. Deleted message

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[nashbridges]

76. The only people ignoring physics

are batshit conspiracy theorists who never sat through an engineering course in their lives.

I live in DC. I know two people who were in apartment buildings on Columbia Pike and one person who was near Route 110 when the plane came into the pentagon. All three saw saw a plane coming in low and LOUD. The two on Columbia Pike didn't see it hit - but they heard the explosion. The person near 110 couldn't see the moment of impact, either, but he saw the plane heading in.

So, to accept your theory, a plane that was 50 feet above the ground and heading toward the Pentagon had to disappear in two seconds and be replaced by a missile provided by the U.S. government.

If any of the crackpots had experience in plane crashes these theories would vaporize, much like a plane does when it crashes.

My best friend died last year in a commuter plane crash in Missouri, and we went over the NTSB report in detail. Do you all know what is left of a plane that crashes into trees after the fire is put out? Nothing. NOTHING. Pieces of the plane that tore off before the crash site survived. Most of the aluminum at the crash site proper simply burned up, turned into soot and ash, and floated away.

[OneBlueSky]

22. there were two, possibly three cameras that captured whatever it was . . .

that hit the Pentagon, but the government has refused to release the videos . . . which would end this discussion once and for all . . . the fact that they won't leads me to believe they're hiding something . . . and, personally, I'll never believe that a jetliner was what hit that building, not after seeing the official DOD photographs of the wall BEFORE it collapsed . . . no way, no how . . .

on edit: and didn't Rumsfeld once slip and mention the "missile that hit the Pentagon?" . . .

[Bethany Rockafella]

38. Correct. We've seen tons of video of the other 2 planes hitting the WTC.

But they won't release the ones with the plane hitting the Pentagon. Things that make you go hmmm.

[Last Lemming]

44. Not sure about Rumsfeld

but I've read Jamie Goerlick said this during the hearings

[philb]

75. Rumsfeld, Gen Myers Complicity

Discrepancies in General Myers and Donald Rumsfeld’s statements

The 9/11 Commission Report apparently tries to deflect the criticism that Gen Myers complicit in the stand down by stating that Gen Myers was on Capital Hill meeting with Senator Cleland from 8:45 to 9:45 am about personnel matters during the period prior to the time that WTC and the Pentagon buildings were attacked. Thus he never took part in dealing with 9/11 events.

Also this statement is contradicted by the report and testimony of Richard Clarke, the National Security Director. He said that Myers, Rumsfeld, Tenet, Muller, and Garvey were on a teleconference call about the attacks and that he had a discussion with Gen Myers about getting fighters up over Washington. He said Myers gave a report that we have 3 F 16s from Langley up over the Pentagon and Andrews is launching fighters from the DC air national guard(DCANG). This also contradicts Gen Myers statements to the effect that Andrews AFB had no planes on alert to defend the D.C. area. One of these men clearly isn’t telling the truth, and given the number of people on the teleconference call it is easy to confirm who it is.

Shortly after 9/11, Sec of Defense Donald Rumsfeld made a statement carried by news reports and on the DOD web site about his actions on 9/11. Apparently he was also anxious to imply that he had not been aware of the 9/11 events before the buildings were hit. He said that he heard something happened and went downstairs to see what happened and was told a plane had hit the Pentagon (he was in the East wing, plane hit the west wing which is a considerable distance away). He said he went to the crash site and helped with putting people on stretchers for loading in ambulances and returned to his office at about 10:20. In testimony to the 9/11 Comm., he gave a slightly different story. He said that when the plane hit the Pentagon shook and he went out to see what had happened. He said he wasn’t there long and returned to his office at about 10:00. Note that actions and times are important due to other events.
The 9/11 Comm. agreed with the first report regarding actions and with the 2nd statement regarding the time of return to the office. But note the time that the plane hit and the fact that it is about a 10 minute walk from Rumsfeld’s office in the East wing to the west wing parking lot. Also there is contradictory testimony to any of these statements.

All of these statements are in conflict with Richard Clarke’s report, which is easily verifiable. Clarke said that Myers and Rumsfeld were on the teleconference call with him and others about the hijackings from about 9:15 until the plane hit the Pentagon. When the plane hit, Rumsfeld said that smoke was getting into the secure conference room so he moved to another studio at the Pentagon. This contradicts Rumsfeld’s statements on where he was and what he was doing. It also contradicts Myers and Rumsfeld’s statements that they were unaware of the status of Fl 77 before it hit the Pentagon.

The Comm. Report appears to be an obvious attempt to cover up these discrepancies by not looking at or reporting information from testimony that was not consistence with the statements of Cheney, Myers, Rumsfeld, and other top DOD and military leaders. The testimony of Transportation Secretary who was in charge of all response to the non military response to the hijackings , and the testimony of National Security Coordinator Richard Clarke, that of many FBI agents such as Sibel Edmunds and Crowley and of other officials was not included or mentioned in the Comm. Report. The FBI agents testified that they were aware of prior warnings of the plans for the attacks and that they and others had warned the administration and pentagon officials, and also that their efforts prior to 9/11 to prevent the attacks were stifled by FBI top level officials. Although the Commission Report says that the Pentagon only became aware of the plane heading to the Pentagon at 9:36 which was 2 minutes before the building was hit, it is clear this was not the case. Note another suspicious event that is contradictory to this statement besides the previous reports and testimony. The Comm. Report says that the Pentagon became aware of an unarmed military C 130H cargo plane in the Washington area and ordered it to find the plane and identify it. The C 130H pilot said that he spotted the plane, identified it as a Boeing 757, attempted to follow its path, and reported that it crashes into the Pentagon. Rather a lot of action in an extremely short time period when talking to a C130 pilot would not be high on official’s agenda. This is the primary source identifying that the plane that hit the Pentagon was a Boeing 757. Besides the obvious time complications, this story does not seem to be compatible with another story in the Commission Report about the plane that hit the Pentagon’s approach and actions. And another strange story of this C 130H being involved in Pennsylvania with the Flight 93 crash incident also have very confusing statements.

This information come from Chap 14 of the book of Dr. D.R. Griffin, The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions; the book has references for the sources of information quoted.

http://www.flcv.com/offcompl.html

[spooked911]

49. Yes.

I also found a website a long time back where a German guy interviewed by the FBI said the FBI told him a cruise missile hit the Pentagon. FWIW.

[philb]

81. You didn't save the URL or message??

it would be useful to try to find out the name of the FBI guy.

[spooked911]

82. The URL is in my blog somewhere back a few months,

but it didn't have any names of FBI agents.

[chrisbur]

61. I'm not sure but

I thought his slip was something like: "The plane that was SHOT down over Pennsylvania."

[spooked911]

67. he said that too. Much earlier he made a slip about the Pentagon getting

hit by a missile. This was just a few months after 9/11.

[Name removed]

7. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

10. Deleted message

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[tx_dem41]

11. Whatever you want to think.....

and whatever makes you happy. Keep up with the "no plane hit the Pentagon" theory. Its a surefire winner!

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

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[tx_dem41]

16. And, what, pray tell, does your extensive investigation...

conclude? Or are we just going to be coy today?

[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

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[tx_dem41]

18. Okay, so we're going with the

coy angle. Or is it called something else?

[clem_c_rock]

23. All they have to do is release the vidoes and we'll shut up

W/in minutes, the FBI confiscated every video tape of the "plane" hitting the Pentagon. Name one reason they wouldn't be released and over every media circuit in the world just like the WTC. Also, there's just as many witnesses that saw something different than a passenger plane.

Why does the 5 frames the Pentagon show no Plane?

Why does the Popular Mechanics story only attack the stupidest theories and not one's presented in books like "The New Pearl Harbor" or "Crossing the Rubicon".


Sorry, basically, the Pop Mech article is based on straw man arguments.

[bronco]

34. videos

just thought i'd drop a note - i currently have a federal lawsuit agaisnt the FBI to obtain the videos from both sheraton and the citgo gas station... but don't expect anything for about 6 months or a year.

i'll post here when i get them.

[clem_c_rock]

37. Wow - do you really think you have a chance of getting them?

Something tells me they will pull a "Secret Privilage" thingy.

[bronco]

40. there's a chance...

it's a good argument: what can be so secret?

[Last Lemming]

45. You know

pictures of the buring pentagon show multiple video cameras spaced perhaps every 100-200 yards cameras that are directly on the Pentagon itself

[bronco]

51. keeping the focus

the pentagon AND the navy annex are protruding-over with cameras. they definately caught what happened, but that's the kind of stuff they'll never (publically) release for security reasons. so we made the focus easy: give us just what you took from the hotel and gas station...

[Sweet Pea]

56. Can anyone explain.....

why the Sheraton would have a hotel security camera that was aimed at the Pentagon itself? What sort of security would that provide to the hotel? Why would they have one pointed at the Pentagon in the first place?

I know all the news reports of the hotel employees "watching the crash over and over again" before the FBI showed up and took the video. That still doesn't explain why a camera would be looking at the Pentagon, a couple of miles away when security cameras would likely be focused on their parking lot, the entrance, their grounds, etc.

Same with the Citgo gas station. Having stopped by there numerous times and having seen the cameras in question, focused on gas pumps and the gas islands, I'm not certain they would have had anything to start off with.

[bronco]

58. cameras

it's not so much what the cameras caught - but rather, putting this piece of the puzzle in its place. it divides our attention now, where it can be better placed with WTC7 and other unknowns. if it proves a conspiracy, then that's its place and that's more important that we can imagine - so whatever it takes is worth it. but ... really, i expect to see silver 757 on the tapes if/when they're released.

i've been to the gas station, and looked at its cameras. my guess is that they probably are angled in such a way as to have caught the last 100ft or so prior to impact. also, i've been to the sheraton - i've talked with people who work there and have been told there is a roof camera, and also that the FBI closed floors 14 & 15 on 911. there are witnesses. what the cameras saw, no one on this side can really say. but the tapes were confiscated, and that's what this case will prove. i'm surprised this terra hasn't been stomped before me, but it feels good to be a part of it.

b.

[demodewd]

62. thank you..FBI

But our trusty FBI friends confiscated them anyway just to make sure.

[MADem]

55. That CITCO is a NEXCOM station

It isn't open to the public. It is a Navy Exchange command facility, you need an ID to buy gas there. Government property, government tape. Also, it sits rather low relative to the funny farm. If you are standing there pumping gas, you cannot see the building at all. There is a slight rise from the station to the road that runs alongside the facility.

There is a Navy Federal Credit Union ATM on the wall on the other side of the gas station. However, the cameras, which would be pointed at the persons making deposits or withdrawals, are pointed the wrong way, and I think they only activate when a card is placed in the slot. So, unless someone was using the ATM at that morning hour at the precise moment that the plane might have passed within a frame (unlikely that the field would be wide enough to catch it, and also it is easier to go to the credit union in the basement of the Annex). What could you expect to get? Sound, maybe, not much else. The aspect/angle is wrong.

Don't hold your breath, that's all I'm saying.

[spooked911]

68. Awesome! Good luck!

[philb]

80. Is this your FOIA?? or is there more than one: this one says June 21

Pentagon F77 FOIA request for confiscated Pentagon security camera tapes,etc.
http://www.flight77.info/

on the morning of september 11th, 2001 the FBI visited at least two private businesses near the pentagon and confiscated several security camera video tapes.
business #1 is the cigto gas station with several security cameras aimed in the direction of the pentagon. flight 77 flew directly over the gas station at an altitude of roughly 50 feet, less than 3 seconds from impact.
business #2 is the sheraton national hotel. it is known, based upon a prior FOIA report filed by CNN which requested the tapes - that the sheraton's security cameras DID capture the plane - however because of national security, the FBI won't release the video.

[manxkat]

47. agreed 100%

[Old and In the Way]

50. Seems simple and straightforward.

Why wouldn't it be in everyone's interests to release the film? Put an end to the speculation once and for all.

Did the 9/11 Commission ever get to see the evidence?

I do find it surprising that the FBI grabs the tapes from private establishments within minutes of the attack, though. That must have been one of the first orders issued.

[bronco]

52. i think why...

is because under the freedom of information act - we have the right to the information, but to get it handed over (where they'd rather you not have the info) takes litigation to enforce the law. another case of freedom not being free...

[ashmanonar]

53. yea, it's strange how much they hide from us

and then claim "it's the conspiracy theorists! Godzilla! mothra!"

and welcome to du! :hi:

[Pastiche423]

12. Why?

And which CTs?

[DulceDecorum]

13. Go gityerself a Bush massage.

First published on September 6, 2002.
As a member of the Portland Marathon massage team and one of the two or three top massage therapists in town, Jefferson Kincaid was a logical choice to give the presidential massage when George W. Bush came to town two weeks ago.
On Aug. 21, the day before the president was due to arrive, Kincaid had an interview with a woman from the White House advance team. She told him the team wanted someone who could do some “deep tissue work” — although after talking with her for a few minutes, Kincaid realized she didn’t really have much of an idea of what that meant. However, since “depth” is relative anyway, he didn’t try to explain it to her.
As it happens, Kincaid’s specialty is the piriformis muscle, which is located deep within the human buttocks. As he explains it, there are three gluteal muscles on the outside of each buttock and six rotator muscles — including the piriformis — beneath them. If the piriformis is tensed up, as Kincaid explains it, you’re going to have back pain.
The massage took place after Gordon Smith’s fund-raiser, in the presidential suite on the 22nd floor of the Hilton Portland. Kincaid had brought his massage table, and the president of the United States, in the altogether of course but covered by a sheet, lay on it.
<snip>
“Did anyone ever work on your butt?” asked Kincaid. Once again, the president said no. But he was willing to give it a try.
However, when Kincaid started going deeper in an effort to release the stopped-up energy, the president said, “Not this time.”
http://www.portlandtribune.com/archold.cgi?id=15619
http://www.smirkingchimp.com/viewtopic.php?topic=10406&forum=10

Don't shoot the massage-r
The Oregon Board of Massage Therapists dropped its investigation into Jefferson Kincaid, President Bush's masseur during an August 2002 visit. Kincaid, the board said, may have violated patient confidentiality by talking to Tribune columnist Phil Stanford about the presidential massage. But a letter to "the victim" -- the president -- went unanswered and the investigation was dropped.
http://www.portlandtribune.com/archview.cgi?id=22077

[tx_dem41]

15. Well, you've certainly got proof that Bush...

is gay....I guess. :eyes:

[gatorboy]

46. President Bush's masseur ?

How very metrosexual of the President...

[natrat]

8. BINGO

[donsu]

26. and Eberle worked/works for Lockheed

a recent article told how Lockheed paid off the bushgang and congress for contracts


(also recently discovered is that Lockheed is approving and monitoring which truck drivers get to drive hazardous load trucks)

[SpaceBuddy008]

31. Gary Bauer also on witness list

yes the fundamentalist candidate for pres.

see ratical.org link

ferret the parrots

Free from Disinformation is a goal

[DoYouEverWonder]

32. Add John Kerry to that list too

He claims to have seen the jet while they were evacuating the Capital.

Now I am sure plenty of regular ordinary people saw the jet or some sort of aircraft that flew into the Pentagon. However, there are definitely more than a few people that claim to have seen Flight 77 but are just passing along the WH version.

[SpaceBuddy008]

33. please site reference

you can see bauer on the list

where did you hear about kerry

can you site link, corroborate

you lump kerry with bauer

did not give specific recorded fact to back it up

I did with Bauer

[DoYouEverWonder]

72. Here's one account

but some of the details are different from what I remember.

BTW: You are right about there is a difference between actually saying you saw the plane hit the building or just seeing the explosion, which is what Kerry claims in this account.



KING: Where were you?

KERRY: I was in the Capitol. We'd just had a meeting -- we'd just come into a leadership meeting in Tom Daschle's office, looking out at the Capitol. And as I came in, Barbara Boxer and Harry Reid were standing there, and we watched the second plane come in to the building. And we shortly thereafter sat down at the table and then we just realized nobody could think, and then boom, right behind us, we saw the cloud of explosion at the Pentagon. And then word came from the White House, they were evacuating, and we were to evacuate, and so we immediately began the evacuation.

HEINZ KERRY: You walked out with John McCain, didn't you?

KERRY: Yes.

KING: You and what?

HEINZ KERRY: He and John walked out together.

KING: He and John McCain walked out -- what did you think?

Did you think...

(CROSSTALK)

KERRY: I knew instantaneously...

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0407/08/lkl.00.html

[DoYouEverWonder]

73. Finally found the account that I was looking for

Kerry's Undeclared War

October 10, 2004

As New York and Washington were under attack on Sept. 11, 2001, a film crew happened to come upon John Kerry leaving the Capitol. The brief moment of footage, included in a BBC documentary called ''Clear the Skies,'' tells us something, perhaps, about Kerry in a crisis. The camera captures Congressional aides and visitors, clearly distraught and holding onto one another, streaming down the back steps of the Capitol building in near panic, following the bellowed instructions of anxious police. Off to one side of the screen, there is Kerry, alone, his long legs carrying him calmly down the steps, his neck craning toward the sky, as if he were watching a gathering rainstorm. His face and demeanor appear unworried. Kerry could be a man lost in his thoughts who just happens to have wandered onto the set of a disaster film.

"I remember looking up at the sky as I walked down the steps," Kerry told me recently, when I asked him about the film clip. He said that he and other members of the Senate's Democratic leadership had just watched on television as the second plane hit the World Trade Center, and shortly after that they heard the sonic boom of an explosion and saw, through a large window, the black smoke rise from the Pentagon. "We'd had some warning that there was some airplane in the sky. And I remember seeing a great big plane -- I think it was a 747 or something -- up there, but it wasn't moving in a way that, you know, I was particularly concerned. I remember feeling a rage, a huge anger, and I remember turning to somebody and saying, 'This is war.' I said, 'This is an act of war.'"

After leaving the Capitol on that terrible day, Kerry walked across the street to his office in the Russell Senate building, where he made sure that his staff had been evacuated and was safe. Reluctant to leave Capitol Hill, he watched TV coverage in his office and saw the second tower fall. He called his older daughter, Alexandra, who was living in New York, and his wife, Teresa, who was in Washington. Those who saw Kerry that morning recall mainly that he was furious, an emotion, those close to him say, that comes easily to him in times of trial. He thought it was a mistake to shut down the Capitol, to show terrorists that they had the power to send the United States government into hiding.

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/10/10/magazine/10KERRY.html?ex=1255147200&en=8dcbffeaca117a9a&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland


Upon re-reading this account, this story is a bit confusing. It seems that he saw the fire from the Pentagon while he was still inside the Capitol, but when he left the Capital he looked up and saw a 747 or something, but not necessarily the plane that hit the Pentagon.

[bloom]

36. Seeing a jet go by

and describing one hit the Pentagon are two different animals or fruits or whatever.


Flight 77 went somewhere.

[spooked911]

64. actually there was a white AWACS jet flying over DC on the morning of 9/11

that a lot of people saw and some mistakenly thought was flight 77.

There was even video of it.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

39. OMG! WHOAH! HOLY SHIT! FUCK ME!....now i know for sure MIHOP!!!!!

[lala_rawraw]

42. forget the acron.

How about the simple truth: either they helped it happen or they made it happen... we need to take the language back. In my opinion, they DID it ...Rubicon is the bible on this.

[lala_rawraw]

41. holy kakakakakaka

I wish i could post ground zero pictures just as a reminder to the fuck heads!!

[madison2000]

48. The first thing I heard about the Pentagon attack that morning

was that a helicopter had crash landed at the heliport there but that ir was just an accident, unrelated to what happened at the WTC. And that there was a small fire, but it was being put out. The whole story was different a couple of hours later.

[BamaBecky]

54. Jackpot! What a terrific 'find'......

This needs wide exposure!

[TrustingDog]

57. Jebus H. Cripes. !!!!!!

I Knew It!
It just takes a couple 'planted' stories to make the press while all other witnessed accounts that differ are treated with the tinfoil gloves.

damn!!!!!

[Liberty Belle]

59. My brother lived near the Pentagon. He says many of his

neighbors saw the plane. He also helped bring water to the rescue workers and saw the wreckage. He says this theory is completely crazy.

Could there be other reasons why the government wouldn't want the videos released? Someone shown in the video entering/leaving the Pentagon that would be an embarassment to the administration? For all we know, some neocon was having sex in the parking lot with our pal, Jeff Gannon. While I'd love nothing better than to see the Bush administration's reputation further besmirched, I think this is barking up the wrong tree.

[Bolo Boffin]

60. My opinion

...is that the government doesn't want the film showing up in al-Quada propaganda films, to deny them that much at least.

[spooked911]

65. What? That makes no sense considering all the other pictures and video

taken on 9/11 that is out on the web.

I think most likely a 757 hit the Pentagon but the Pentagon is not releasing the whole film to stir up crazy conspiracy theories to point people way from the many real anomalies of 9/11.

Either that, or there is something damning in that security camera video that they don't want us to see. Perhaps a second explosion that doesn't fit with the official story.

[Bolo Boffin]

71. I don't disagree with your first idea at all.

But I do know that the second any real footage of the Pentagon attack gets out, it will be incorporated into al-Qaeda propaganda tapes, just like all the other tape and pictures out there.

And the Pentagon must project an image of strength. It's a question of morale, I would think - not letting the terrorists have something they wanted.

Still one of those tapes was available for review for a while - the rooftop Sheraton video. Several employees watched it a number of times before the video was confiscated. And there's been no word from them about anything different from the accepted version of events.

[Ronbrynaert]

63. uh yeah

I just did a DU search and found it's been mentioned in a few recent threads, but usually with people suggesting Eberle was lying for purposes of self-promotion. This Xymphora entry is the first thing I've seen suggesting that it has a far deeper significance.


serves me right for posting a story ( http://whyareweback.blogspot.com/2005/02/bobby-eberle-exploited-911.html ) that ends with "More on Bobby and 9-11 later"


But...before we all start losing our heads...my belief is that Bobby made up the story himself to promote his website...it got picked up everywhere...his site jumped in popularity afterward...

the main reason why i see it as his story...and not...say..that of a plant..is that he claimed that the view of the other person in the car ( i assume the driver) had their view obstructed...which gives some sort of plausible deniability...since the other guy didn't see anything...there's no need for bruce to mention who he was or to offer him as back-up witness

if bobby was really a plant...he wouldn't have done something so sloppy...

oh and one more thing....it's bad enough i wasn't linked to since i was the one who wrote the 9/11 exploited by bobby story...which someone took the picture from and put it on another thread...

it's bad enough that a guy i wrote two weeks ago...at one of the bigger blogs...about my stories...but never got a response from...has posted a story that is probably linked to in this thread...but that contains complete sentences from my work

but starroute starroute starroute

i linked to you at my blog and hyped you...and wow look what i get here...

if you did some googling (like everyone else in the blogosphere) you came to my blog since i'm one of the first that comes up...


and yeah...xymphora...he's been to my blog plenty of times...he's one of the top links on my blog...thanks a lot...for ignoring me and linking to the other guy...


i don't expect to get mentioned by the many mainstream journalists that have been to my blog and learned stuff that ive been writing about for over a few weeks...but it sucks that i get ignored by so many on my side

the ironic thing: ive been focussing on the plagiarism at talon news and gopusa...

ive proved that they've stolen complete articles from nearly every mainstream news organization but nobody seems to care about that...

i've also given the best source there is about the relationship between bobby and bruce eberle...someone who's dealt with them both...mike krempasky...but...no...that can't get linked to or cited either...

ive also linked gopusa to alan keyes and renew america...nope...that doesn't get out yet...

i don't even give a shit about people ripping me off...i have so much more to write that eventually ill be recognized...or whatever next story...

but can we at least start talking about the fact that bobby eberle plagiarized from the mainstream press...that would help this story get out even more....

i posted a thread about it...asking for volunteers and i got a few...but not near enough i need to help me on this angle...

its a good thing you can't rate posts on this site..cause if this were daily kos i know what would be the result of everything i just wrote here...

peace

[spooked911]

66. I agree with your theory about Eberle

but the rest of the rant we could live without. Sorry if people ignored your blog, but the sour grapes act doesn't help your cause.

[staticstopper]

78. I understand his frustrations

I think he has a great site and I've seen his blog all over lately. I think if he simply used less of these (...) things, ppl would not be so reticent about highlighting his blog (and a cleaner look would not hurt either, look at bradsblog for one not to imitate lol)

{p.s. some have said that writers who use that (...) thing because they can't seem to see where one sentance ends and another beings - myself for one...I use it way too much myself. My art teacher told a cool story about this great and very famous artist (forget his name) never being able to paint hands, they always looked way off compared to the rest of the work. I say this because IF he worries about not being a great writer - he should not - look at Greg Palast, he's no Christopher Hitchins, but who would want to be anyway?}

[starroute]

69. I've never seen your blog before.

I'm sure I would have remembered that color scheme. :-)

But if you've got something linking Mike Krempasky to Bruce Eberle, that's exciting, because it goes right to the heart of the Buckhead/rathergate.com nexus and could be a key to the CBS memos flap. I'll have to check it out later.

(Alan Keyes is important, too. He and Bruce Eberle go back together to YAF in the 60's, and Keyes has been up to a lot more over the years than just being a stupid Republican candidate.)

Meanwhile . . . don't sweat it. The Net is big, and Google isn't all it's cracked up to be. If you're doing original research, that will be noticed in time.

[Ronbrynaert]

70. well

i was noticed big time today...smile

anyway...

you've done great work here, starroute....thanks

[NecessaryOnslaught]

74. The chances of this guy being an actual witness

are slim to none. So how many other "witnesses" made up their story? More importantly, WHY? I mean, a plane really hit the pentagon, right? No need for fake witnesses, right?

[seatnineb]

79. Right on Necessary!

And with witnesses like this........


Name: Barbara
E-Mail:...
Location: United States

After it hit we all jumped out our cars to get a better look. What kind of plane was it? Who cares? It was obviously a very large commercial jet sticking halfway out of a well-made building.

http://signs-of-the-times.org/signs/911eyewitnesses.htm

There is every reason to be sceptical........

[spooked911]

83. I often hear--"if you lived in DC" you would never doubt that a 757 hit

the Pentagon-- everyone knows someone who saw the plane.

But when you push these people for more info, they never answer.

I imagine many people saw something at the Pentagon, but weren't really sure what it was. They merged it with the famous videos of flight 175 hitting the WTC that were playing constantly on 9/11 and thus saw a 757 hitting the Pentagon.