No trace found of 1,100 WTC victims

[DulceDecorum]

February 24, 2005
NEW YORK-- The medical examiner's office has largely ended its effort to identify the remains of those killed at the World Trade Center on Sept. 11, 2001, leaving more than a thousand victims unidentified.
"They told us they've exhausted all current technologies for identifications," Diane Horning, who lost her 26-year-old son, Matthew, said Wednesday.
Horning said the medical examiner's office called her Tuesday morning.
The forensic effort failed to identify any remains of more than 1,100 victims, or almost half of the 2,749 who died there.
Since the attacks 3 1/2 years ago, the medical examiner's office identified nearly 1,600 victims, although progress had slowed considerably in recent months. Since September, only eight victims have been identified. A few inconclusive tests are still pending that could yield a couple of more identifications, they told families.
The city has about 10,000 unidentified bone and tissue fragments that cannot be matched to the list of the dead.
<snip>
In most cases, victims whose remains were not identified have been legally declared dead by the court anyway, based on documentation that they were at the trade center or on the hijacked airplanes.
http://www.suntimes.com/output/news/cst-nws-wtc24.html

[DulceDecorum]

1. Time to check the Social Security Death Index, AGAIN

The Passengers and the Planes

But what happened to the passengers?
Well,
let us see what
the Social Security Death Index
http://ssdi.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/ssdi.cgi
has to say about that.

As marvelous a finding aid as it is, the SSDI does not include the names of everyone, even if they had a Social Security number (SNN). If relatives or the funeral home did not report the death to the Social Security Administration, or if the individual died before 1962 (when the records were computerized) then they probably will not appear in this database. The omission of an individual in this index does not indicate the person is still living. It simply means that there was no report of the person's death to Social Security Administration.
http://www.rootsweb.com/~rwguide/lesson10.htm

NOTE:
Some entries appear to be inconclusive.
In such cases, one or more entries have been placed within brackets.
You are STRONGLY ENCOURAGED to
search the database for yourself
BEFORE drawing any conclusions.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=18365&mesg_id=18365

[LARED]

2. Here we go again

[DulceDecorum]

3. I like the disclaimer

that you have at the bottom of your posts.

“A lie gets halfway around the world
before the truth has a chance to get its pants on.”
-- Winston Churchill

[AZCat]

5. I didn't know there was an award...

Sheesh - I didn't even get a ballot!

[DulceDecorum]

6. Oh, I think that was YOUR award,

Lord knows
you have certainly earned it.

:headbang:

[NecessaryOnslaught]

4. "Pancaked" into another dimension

I assume. :crazy:

[DulceDecorum]

7. These people

are documented as having been at the trade center or on the hijacked airplanes
BUT
HUNDREDS of them
do not show up on any other database whatsoever.

New York law says that in order to be declared dead,
it must first be proved that one was alive.
Governor Pataki suspended this law and gave an executive order by which two affidavits,
one from a company and one from a family member
were sufficient to release copious amounts of federal aid
to both the company and the family member.

What is also curious is that
FOUR of the alleged hijackers were issued with death certificates
under the executive order.

[RedSock]

8. what do you mean?

***
These people are documented as having been at the trade center or on the hijacked airplanes BUT HUNDREDS of them do not show up on any other database whatsoever.
***

By no other database whatsoever, do you mean that there is no record that some people existed other than a 9/11 list?

If so, I'd be curious to know who these people are -- and if any of them were profiled in the New York Times's long series of "Portraits"?

If not, what do you mean?

[LARED]

10. The article points to other documentation

In most cases, victims whose remains were not identified have been legally declared dead by the court anyway, based on documentation that they were at the trade center or on the hijacked airplanes.


It is highly unlikely a court is going to declare someone dead without some evidence.

[DulceDecorum]

11. You got it

but don't take my word for it.

Go find a list of victims.
Select a few. Try to chase them down.
Try to find out ANYTHING about their lives BEFORE September 11, 2001.
Search especially for info that did NOT come directly from
the family member
or the company
who were both handsomely rewarded for their loss.

In some instances you may find a college reporting attendance,
but in many cases even that record is suspect.
Take the case of Victor Saracini,
who is alleged to be the pilot of Flight 175.
I am only picking on him
since some of these particulars have been posted here
on another thread within the past 48 hours.
Many other 911 people have even more perplexing timelines.

Ellen Hildebrand Saracini says:
Victor Saracini also possessed a life-long love of learning, she said. He served in the Navy, where he trained as a pilot; he earned a bachelor's degree in general studies from New Mexico Tech in 1976; and he took engineering, science and music classes while at Louisiana Tech.
"Victor was very intelligent," Mrs. Saracini said. "He would have been a student his whole life long if he was able to."
She chose Louisiana Tech to sponsor the scholarship because she wanted it to be associated with a four-year degree program.
Plus, she said, "He enjoyed flying and teaching there" at Tech.
She herself had earned a two-year associate degree in science and aviation technology from St. Petersburg Junior College before enrolling at Tech with plans to obtain her flight instructor's rating.
One of her flight instructors from Florida, Pete Maniscalco, had since become an instructor at Tech and introduced her to Victor Saracini.
"I met Vic and I guess we both fell in love pretty quickly," she recalled. "He got a job in Pennsylvania, and we both moved there."
He was a New Jersey native; she, a New York native who moved to Florida at an early age.
http://www.latech.edu/newspublisher/news/news-archive-august-2002.shtml

Victor Saracini, the pilot of United Airlines Flight 175 that crashed into the World Trade Center South Tower, was a student at Tech in 1982.
According to the Sept. 21 issue of The (Monroe) News-Star, Saracini was at Tech for several quarters in order to build up flight time that allowed him to become a commercial pilot. Saracini did not graduate from Tech, however.
"No one (in the department) knew about (Saracini being a former student) until alumni told us," Dale Sistrunk, head of the aviation department, said. "He came here in 1982, before I got here."
http://eb.journ.latech.edu/archives/fall01/1004/output/n-7.htm

No, no, Dale.
You got it wrong.
Victor Saracini was TEACHING at Louisiana Tech......

Saracini was a flight instructor at Louisiana Tech from 1980-82. His widow, Ellen Hildebrand Saracini, said she established the scholarship to commemorate his love of flying.
http://www.tnonline.com/archives/news/2002/08.27/911.html

.... BEFORE he enrolled as a student at Louisiana Tech.

Victor worked as a flight instructor at the university. While he was a student in the aviation program in 1981, he and Ellen fell in love. They have two daughters, Kirsten, 15, and Brielle, 12.
To donate to the Victor Saracini Flight Scholarship, contact Dale Sistrunk at the LTU Professional Aviation Department, P.O. Box 3181 TS, Ruston, LA 71272.
http://www.phillyburbs.com/pb-dyn/news/113-09112003-157577.html

.... and everyone agrees that he LEFT sometime in 1982.

Please also note that Louisiana Tech has to quote
the Sept. 21 issue of The (Monroe) News-Star
as being the source of theis information.
One would suppose that
the school maintains records and that
Victor Saracini should appear in these records.
One would also suppose that
the taxman maintains records for
the income Victor Saracini received from teaching.
One can suppose all they want but these records,
and others like them
simply do not appear to exist.

New Mexico Tech says:
Victor J. Saracini (76, Bachelor of General Studies) was the captain of United Airlines flight 175 that was taken over by hijackers on Sept. 11, 2001, and crashed into one of the World Trade Center Buildings. After Vic graduated from Tech, he served in the Navy, where he trained as a pilot. He worked for United for about 16 years.
http://infohost.nmt.edu/mainpage/alumni/sept11.html

Jack G. Schachtman of Yardley, PA says:
Vic, Billy, and I completed our NFO training in June of 1976. We received our wings at a ceremony held in the Naval Aviation Museum on N.A.S. Pensacola. After seeing many of our fellow students wash out during all phases of our training, we were so proud to finally get our wings.
From that point we all moved on. I moved to San Diego and became a Tactical Coordinator on an S-3A. I lost track of Vic and Billy.
http://www.victorsaracini.com/u_s__navy.htm

Ted and Lynn Clough say:
Lynn and I have some great memories of Vic. I first met him when we were going through S-3A training at VS-41 in San Diego in 1976.
http://www.victorsaracini.com/u_s__navy.htm

So Victor Saracini managed to attend New Mexico Tech at the same time that he was enrolled in Naval Flight Officer training in Florida and graduated from both programs in the same year.
Victor also manged to lose track of a good and lifelong friend when they BOTH moved moved into the same Navy training program in San Diego.
Victor Saracini then moved to the USS Saratoga where Charles Frank Burlingame III of Flight 77 was also stationed. There does not appear to be any record of the two having met and the USS Saratoga has VERY VERY LITTLE to say about Vic.

Please do not ask me how this came to be.
All I am saying is that the stories of the 911 people BEFORE September 11, are very very odd.

Barby the Harpy claimed to have been a professional ballerina
BUT
there is no ballet company
that will admit that she ever represented them
seeing as how she moved with all the grace of
a three-legged cow with hemorrhoids.

[LARED]

16. There is no proof I'm alive or dead.

I checked a number of databases (including DD's) and my name did not show up anywhere.

I did not show up as being alive or dead, so I must have never existed.

Well, now that that's settled, I'm going to buy a Bentley as there is no trace of my existence on the internet.

[AZCat]

17. I remain unconvinced...

that you are not the DU manifestation of a military A.I. experiment gone rogue...

I will attempt to reprogram your conspiracy matrix now:
0110110000101101011010101011011
1101111010110000101111010110100
0110101011111011000001010111111
1110101101010100001010101111100


Well, LARED-bot, what do you have to say for yourself?

[LARED]

19. Well, actually I'm programed in hex

so back at you

3616b55b
6f585eb4
357d82bf
75aa157c

and

20d617

[DulceDecorum]

18. Don't forget to tell your wife

to have a good time spending all the money she gets for having sworn out an affidavit claiming that
A) she had a husband, birth and marriage records be damned, and
B) you are dead.

Hey LARED,
if you truly do not show up on any database whatsoever,
can I take that to mean that you are totally irrelvant?

What databases (if any) did you check?
Post the links.
Ta.

[LARED]

20. You have access to on-line birth and marriage records?

Please share.

Or have I misunderstood something?

[DulceDecorum]

22. Why should I?

You said you checked all the databases
and you won't tell us which ones.

And besides which,
you yourself have expressed doubts as to your own existence.

I am loath to waste my time
with a figment of some miserable imagination.
Gannon has more substance.
He shows up on databases.
I think I'll go have another look at him and his bod.

[LARED]

25. Come'on DD lets not get too carried away

I never said I checked all the databases. I'm assume it was an honest mistake on your part.

I googled. I 'alltheweb'ed. I jeeved. I tried a few other search engines. I searched government DB's. I searched Lexus Nexus, and a few academic databases. SS too.

I'm just not here..................... It must be true. Everyone knows all knowledge and truth is found on the web. Right? You beleive that right? Sure you do.

DD, have you watched the matrix?

MORHPEUS: It is the world that has been pulled over your eyes to blind you from the truth.

NEO: What truth?

MORHPEUS: That you are a slave, Neo. Like everyone else you were born into bondage, born into a prison that you cannot smell or taste or touch. A prison for your mind.

MORHPEUS: You take the blue pill, the story ends, you wake up in your bed and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the red pill, you stay in Wonderland, and I show you how deep the rabbit hole goes.

NEO: Am I dead?

MORPHEUS: Far from it.

===============


I have it from a good source that Agent Smith is not in any databases either?????????? What does that tell you????

[Bolo Boffin]

21. Hey, Dulce

Since you've proved to your own satisfaction that the passengers never existed, the planes never existed, and now the WTC victims never existed...

...can you be certain that the WTC towers ever existed in the first place?

Maybe that cleanup was so quick because there really wasn't anything to clean up...

Oh yeah, there are pictures, but pictures can be Photoshopped.

And yes, there are witnesses, but eyewitness testimony is the most unreliable there is.

And no one can find the original blueprints for the WTC because they were coincidentally kept IN THE WTC!

Was all this the coup de grace to the most successful hoax ever? The WTC: a hoax beyond even the moon shots. Was there ever a WTC at all?

[DulceDecorum]

23. Check the databases

and see if the World trade Center shows up on ANY of them.

The US Postal Service had assigned two entire zip codes to that place
and those two zip codes, 10047, 10048, show up on several databases and are ALWAYS linked to addresses in New York City.

Over 80,000 pieces of mail addressed to the World Trade Center arrived every day for months following the attacks. Each piece was sorted by the now post office-bound clerks. When the pigeon-hole containers filled up, clerks moved the missives to overflowing crates marked by addressee. Most of the WTC mail sat unclaimed through October. Finally, company representatives began to claim their mail - including that of individuals killed in the attack. After three months of holding the WTC mail, the postal service began to return unclaimed mail to the senders. This marked the first time in the service's history that unclaimed mail was allowed to remain unclaimed for such a long time before being returned.
http://www.postalmuseum.si.edu/resources/6g8_WTC.html

Since that particular World Trade Center
DOES show up on many and several databases,
then we can conclude it really did exist.
Unlike a certain Talon News
and its owner
Endeavor Media Group, LLC.
http://www.leadpencil.net/blog/archives/000234.html

But y'all just keep believing in Bobby Eberle
and spouting the GOPIMPUSA party line
about 911 etc.
We all know that there is no way that the entire US press corps would refrain from reporting on a story that could bring the Bush Administration down.
Sheesh.
The "Vast right wing conspiracy" strikes again.
Yeah sure.
What type of website
would EVER post such a thing on their homepage?

The New York Times killed a story that could have changed the election
Posted by truthpusher
Added to homepage Fri Feb 04th 2005, 08:05 PM ET
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=homepage_archives&page=11

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=102x1213455

[Bolo Boffin]

24. Dulce, I'm astonished

Don't you realize that if the dark overlords could create airplanes, thousands of people, and hijackers, that they could forge a few news stories and databases as well?

And if they could do all of that, why not a couple of towers?

[Sweet Pea]

9. Wonderful.....

More Perfect Database discussions.

I'm losing track of Dulce's positions.....

The planes were never destroyed...
The pilots were never qualified...
The people never existed...

or is it...

The planes never existed...
The pilots never flew...
The people never died...

or is it

The planes never flew...
The pilots never existed...
The people never .....whatever

[DulceDecorum]

12. What would be even MORE wonderful

would be you putting me on IGNORE.
That little snoozy button at the top right of my posts.
Then you could live in a world free from DulceDecorum.
And the truth.

[AZCat]

13. Ah, but Dulce...

Then we wouldn't be able to help you in your pursuit of the truth.

[DulceDecorum]

14. Well this is another dead thread.

Totally disrupted from the get go.
Par for the course.

[Sweet Pea]

15. Now WHY would I do that???

"The only reason I come to work is to see what will happen next"
--anonymous

[DulceDecorum]

26. Stifle legitimate discussion:

is an alternative name for this thread.

There is NO TRACE OF 1,100 WTC victims.
Any comments to this FACT
will simply open you up to attack from the Sisters.
But at least they are not as abusive as they used to be....

You can have this thread.
You have lost everything else.