What is the strongest piece of evidence refuting the 9/11 official story ?

[steve2470]

When I say "strongest", I mean that it has been thoroughly researched, documented, fact-checked, even challenged by rabid right wingers - in other words, you can bet "the farm" on it. Thank you for your time, I know whoever answers me has had to spend untold hours researching this. I do appreciate your research time, honestly :-) .

[FreedomAngel82]

1. Check out

the documentary "Loose Change." It's REALLY good. You can find it at http://www.mininova.org in the documentary section.

[steve2470]

2. ok thanks ! nt

[philb]

3. Complicity of officials in 9/11 was documented by 9/11 Comm testimony

http://www.flcv.com/offcompl.html
http://www.flcv.com/warnings.html
http://www.flcv.com/911hist.html
http://www.flcv.com/anomalie.html
Dr. D.R. Griffin, The 911/ Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions

[Vickers]

4. George telling a reporter he saw the 1st plane hit, before it was

on any televised news source.

That gnaws at me more than any other single piece of evidence.

It puts the lie to everything that came after.

[steve2470]

5. kick nt

[leftofthedial]

7. said it at least twice, no less

[meppie-meppie not]

19. ITA...it sets the stage ...

"out of the mouths of chimps"

[Ice4Clark]

26. That bothers me too. Here's the link from the WH that

has his conversation with the reporters (Jan 2002).

SOURCE

Q What was the first thing that went through your head when you heard that a plane crashed into the first building?

THE PRESIDENT: Yes. Well, I was sitting in a schoolhouse in Florida. I had gone down to tell my little brother what to do, and -- just kidding, Jeb. (Laughter.) And -- it's the mother in me. (Laughter.) Anyway, I was in the midst of learning about a reading program that works. I'm a big believer in basic education, and it starts with making sure every child learns to read. And therefore, we need to focus on the science of reading, not what may feel good or sound good when it comes to teaching children to read. (Applause.) I'm just getting a plug in for my reading initiative.

Anyway, I was sitting there, and my Chief of Staff -- well, first of all, when we walked into the classroom, I had seen this plane fly into the first building. There was a TV set on. And you know, I thought it was pilot error and I was amazed that anybody could make such a terrible mistake. And something was wrong with the plane, or -- anyway, I'm sitting there, listening to the briefing, and Andy Card came and said, "America is under attack."

And in the meantime, this teacher was going on about the curriculum, and I was thinking about what it meant for America to be under attack. It was an amazing thought. But I made up my mind that if America was under attack, we'd get them. (Applause.) I wasn't interested in lawyers, I wasn't interested in a bunch of debate. I was interested in finding out who did it and bringing them to justice. I also knew that they would try to hide, and anybody who provided haven, help, food, would be held accountable by the United States of America. (Applause.)

Anyway, it was an interesting day.

[femme.democratique]

6. Larry Silverstein as human "evidence" is the key to this whole thing.

Break him, get him to talk, and the chips start to fall.

[spooked911]

8. Not catching Osama.

This brings in the whole issue of why the Bush administration is not interested into cathcing him and there are no good excuses really, if he was truly the mass murderer the govenrment says he is.

Second, I would say the hijacking exercises that were documented as occurring on 9/11 and that the media and the 9/11 commission won't talk about.

[Bismillah]

9. Good starters. But it's also worth mentioning the astonishing fact...

...that Bush was permitted to sit around in that school for so very, very long. The first plane had already hit the WTC, yet he was allowed to carry on travelling to the school (a pre-arranged date, publicly announced). The second plane hit while he was sat there reading... yet he was allowed to carry on reading. Then they let him give his statement to the press - punctually, at the time pre-arranged for a press confernce, and at his leisure. Meanwhile, an unknown number of other planes were missing or verifiably off-course.

So how did the President's experienced and highly-trained Secret Service minders know that he wasn't going to be a target?

How did his Secret Service minders know that the next plane wasn't going to hit that school?

How did his Secret Service minders know that terrorists weren't going to storm the classroom? That there wasn't going to be a car-bomb? That the innocent-looking janitor hadn't concealed a gun?

How did they know there was absolutely nothing to worry about?

(And meanwhile, if we are to believe him, Cheney was being "whisked off his feet" and bundled down an underground corridor to safety...)

[spooked911]

11. Welcome to DU!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And good post!

:hi: :toast: :party:

[Kevin Fenton]

16. Hopsicker

Hopsicker, who I have a lot of respect for, says there was an assassination attempt on Bush that day early in the morning. Perhaps the Secret Service, having foiled that attempt, figured nobody was actually going to try to kill him twice in the space of a couple of hours.

Also, it's highly probable that the Secret Service were in contact with someone who had a radar (or even had one themselves) and knew there were no hijacked planes in the area and that they would have had several minutes advance notice of any approaching rogue airliner.

[BeFree]

18. That's great detective work:...NOT

Lets see: 1) since one attack had already occured the SS went on break the rest of the day, because surely it wouldn't happen twice on one day? LOL

2) They had radar. LOL...
DC had radar....attacked.
NY had radar.... attacked.
SS had radar... no fear of attack. Carry on as if nothing happened.

If it didn't make me ill thinking along those lines, I'd be ROFLMAO.

[meppie-meppie not]

20. umm, there were believed at the time to be some 11 "rogue ailiners" and

we're to believe that not one of those could be a threat on the monkey's ass? LOL..that's the quite the leap in logic there :rofl:

[Kevin Fenton]

27. You misunderstand me

United 175 hit the WTC at 9:03, Card spoke to Bush at 9:06. My point is that I don't think Card (or anyone with him) spoke to the FAA in those three minutes. Therefore Card could not have known that there were any more rogue airliners.

I think Card was right to give him a message, but the message was not very well phrased. Bush should have come out immediately anyway. Given that he didn't Card (or someone else) should have gone back in and given him better information to get him to do something.

[Henny Penny]

21. Do you think the Pentagon had radar??

:think:

[Old and In the Way]

22. That portable SAM battery Bush had at the resort made him sleep

easier. Probably didn't trust those guys flying Cessna's 40 miles down the coast. Too bad the WTC didn't have SAM batteries on their roofs.

[stickdog]

10. The Condensed 9/11 Primer -- 2002 Version

A lot has happened since then, and I need to update this primer with a few more important lines of inquiry (including all the discrepancies between the 9/11 Commission's statements and many previous official cover stories). But this contains about 75% of the most compelling arguments (IMHO) that we've been sold a line of shit on 9/11:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=125&topic_id=13762

[yodermon]

12. Too many to list.

But in terms of photographic evidence:

That hole is where flight 77's fuselage supposedly entered the pentagon.
Immediately above this hole, where the tail fin should have been, are unbroken windows. You know they are unbroken because of the foam on them.

How can this be?

[stevans_41902]

13. For me it is definately the fact that Bush stayed in the classroom for so

long after knowing that there was a terriost attack taking place. How did they know a plane wasn't headed towards the school? Hell, the fact that he decided to go in the school in the first place after knowing that one plane had hit the WTC and 3 more were off their route...their has been no explanation as to why nobody felt the presidents life was in danger when the country was experiencing a major terroist attack.
Also, he had told 3 different sources after 9-11 that he was watching TV in the hallway of the school when he saw LIVE the first plane hit the WTC. There is no way he could be telling the truth b/c the footage from that crash didn't arise until 9-12. Also when he made the announcement at the FL school about the attacks it seemed somewhat rehersed and very insincere to me.

[Endangered Specie]

14. Given your criteria...

none that Ive seen, havent seen it all but have seen a significant portion, plus, it doesnt help that Ive looked at larger amounts of reserach/reports supporting the 'official' story.

[undeterred]

15. I don't think there is a single piece of evidence that is nailed down

but we don't have access to all the evidence, and we never will. This is more of a search for major inconsistencies between the official story and the evidence that is available.

Having said that, these are two of the weakest areas in the official story:

From the photos that are available, it seems hard to believe that a 757 crashed into the Pentagon. There was no evidence of a plane or its parts on the front lawn of the Pentagon after the crash, and the damage to the building is inconsistent with a 757.

Because of the very high temperatures/molten steel and the way they collapsed, it is difficult to believe that WTC1 WTC2 and WTC7 came down without the use explosives.

[MrSammo1]

24. Don't forget

the absence of debris equaling a jet at Shanksville, the engine from the jet that hit the South Tower not being from a 767, some of the supposed hijackers still being alive, the fake Bin laden being trumpeted as real by our FBI, and the problems with the supposed passengers on these magic jets!

All together........it spells "inside job!"

[DoYouEverWonder]

30. There was debris

it's just that it was in all the wrong places.

All the reports I've seen about debris were about pieces that were found ahead of the crash site. Most of the debris came down for 1 mile to 8 miles AHEAD of the plane. I have seen no reports about any debris that landed behind the crash site, like when the shuttle blew up. All of the debris ended up between CA and TX, not TX and LA.

Plus there is NO DEBRIS at the purported crash site.




So part A of the official story that the plane was not fired upon and/or that there was a bomb on board couldn't possible be true because the plane blew into bits before it crashed.

Second lie, that the about location is the actual crash site. There is no plane there. That is a crater from a missile. Flight 93 more likely ended up in Indian Lake.

[Kevin Fenton]

17. Lots

I think there are several aspects which have been 100% proved.

(1) The investigation into terrorist financing was shut down. In "The Price of Loyalty" Ron Suskind says that "The interagency task force on terror financing was stymied" because of "domestic Saudi political sensitivities". The book was written in collaboration with Paul O'Neill, who was on the NSC and a member of the war cabinet and who actually headed the investigation, so he got it straight from the horse's mouth.

(2) Hani Hanjour did not fly American 77 (he could not even fly much smaller aircraft well - this is well documented). One of the originally named hijackers soon mysteriously disappeared from the manifest altogether. His name was Mansour Khaled (usually misspelled as "Mosear Caned") and I would bet my shirt that he is actually the same person that lived with Atta for a year in Hamburg, where he used the name Atif bin Mansour. He was a pilot with the Pakistani Air Force. Remember how the ATC thought American 77 was a military plane because it was flown in a military fashion?

(3) Money was wired to the hijackers by the ISI. You can find stuff on this here: http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_
timeline&geopolitics_and_9/11=isi
For example, January 1, 2000 - September 11, 2001

(4) Myers says he had no idea what was happening on 9/11 until the Pentagon was hit, Clarke, in his book, says that Myers was in the video conference shortly after 9:00. One of them must be lying or very badly mistaken.

(5) The jet fuel in the WTC would have burned up within a few minutes (obviously, it can't burn indefinitely). If somebody wants to claim the WTC collapsed without the aid of explosives, then they have to do so without reference to the fuel.

(6) The decision to invade Iraq was taken even before Bush got into office. According to O'Neill, at the first NSC meeting on January 30, 2001, the participants discussed how to invade Iraq, not whether to do it. However, the plan suggested by Rummy in February was to manipulate an incident, "like the shooting down of an American plane in the regular engagements between US fighters and Iraqi antiaircraft batteries".

[Old and In the Way]

23. The fact that the Pentagon got hit and no air defense over Washington

Stand Down or orchestrated misdirection...take your pick.

[mirandapriestly]

28. I'm with you on that one, lack of air response

is a huge red flag.
Also, the explosives expert Van Romero from the New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology said after the attack that the buildings were definitely brought down because of a controlled demolition and not fire. After a visit to the Pentagon he recanted with no explanation and later received a $15 million dollar grant from the Pentagon. Together with the early news reports of explosions and building 7 in what looks like a controlled demolition this information adds to the picture of the use of explosives.

[Name removed]

25. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[spooked911]

29. Two well documented things (besides not getting Osama)

1) the amazing lack of air defense over Washington DC, as has been pointed out)

2) the wiring of money to Mohamed Atta via General Ahmed of the Pakistani ISI-- the same guy who was meeting Porter Goss and Bob Graham in DC on the morning of 9/11 and had met George Tenet earlier in his visit.

[philb]

31. Disinformation Campaign by "Authorities"&Major Cover-up with help of Media

Official Disinformation distributed by Media covers up obvious major problems with official story http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/analysis/index.html

Military Stand Down http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/analysis/norad/index.html

Many implausible aspects in the official story for 9/11 http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/analysis/mysteries.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/analysis/anomalies.html

Implausible takeover of flights by the hijackers
http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/analysis/pilots.html

Actions Reveal Widespread Advance Knowledge of the Attack http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/preparation.html
http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/warnings.html

2 Months Before Attack, Armed Pilots Banned http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/disarm.html

Suspicious Security Lapses in the Twin Towers Preceding the Attacks http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/preparation.html

Financial Transactions on WTC Computers Surged Before Attack http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/transactions.html

Rumsfeld Buries Admission of Missing 2 Trillion Dollars in 9/10/01 Press Conference
http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/trillions.html

Official Actions: Dissappearance of Evidence,Evidence Suppression, Farcical Investigations http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/analysis/official.html http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/analysis/evidence.html http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/analysis/investigation.html

[evolvenow]

32. Eye Witness Testimony, North Tower collapsed by Controlled Demolition

Eye Witness Testimony, North Tower collapsed by Controlled Demolition




http://www.arcticbeacon.com/articles/article/1518131/28...

*WTC Basement Blast And Injured Burn Victim Blows
'Official 9/11 Story' Sky High; Eye Witness Testimony
Is Conclusive That North Tower Collapsed From
Controlled Demolition

*WTC janitor pulls burn victim to safety after
basement explosion rocks north tower seconds before
jetliner hit top floors. Also, two other men trapped
and drowning in a basement elevator shaft, were also
pulled to safety from underground explosion..

9999June 24, 2005
By Greg Szymanski


Declared a hero for saving numerous lives at Ground
Zero, he was the janitor on duty the morning of 9/11
who heard and felt explosions rock the basement
sub-levels of the north tower just seconds before the
jetliner struck the top floors.

He not only claims he felt explosions coming from
below the first sub-level while working in the
basement, he says the walls were cracking around him
and he pulled a man to safety who was severely burned from the basement
explosions.

snip<

"During the 9/11 hearings, NBC brought a crew out to
my house and spent a day taping my story but they
never did air a word of it," said Rodriguez. "Since
then, some reporters and commentators have subtly
warned me to keep quiet, told me my life could be in
jeopardy and warned me that I really didn’t understand
who I was dealing with.

"I have been receiving this type of subtle harassment
for years, but I keep telling everybody I can’t be
intimidated because I am on a mission. Whenever
someone asks why I keep talking or warns me that I
could be killed, I just tell them I have nothing to
lose.
(more)

[evolvenow]

33. WTC Rescue Hero Sues Bush and Others under RICO Statute

http://www.truthout.org/docs_04/102404K.shtml    

 WTC Rescue Hero Sues Bush and Others under RICO Statute
    By Philip J. Berg, Margaret Atheling Rowe
    YubaNet.com

    Saturday 23 October 2004

    On September 11, 2001, William Rodriguez, a maintenance worker at the World Trade Center in Manhattan, single-handedly rescued fifteen people. The only employee with the master key to the North Tower staircases, he led firefighters up the stairs, unlocking doors as he went, aiding in the evacuation of hundreds of additional people who, but for his efforts, might have perished. Although his job description did not include saving lives, Rodriguez re-entered the building three times after the first plane struck, and was the last person to exit the North Tower alive. He survived the collapse of the North Tower by diving beneath a fire truck to avoid the avalanche of concrete and steel. After onsite treatment for his injuries, Rodriguez plunged right back into rescue efforts at the site. At dawn the next morning, Rodriguez returned to Ground Zero from his home in Jersey City, to continue to aid in rescue efforts.

    Later, Rodriguez became an unofficial spokesman for survivors, among other things helping to secure an amnesty for undocumented aliens, many of them Latinos, and in the creation of the World Trade Center Memorial Fund. Although he lost his job of 19 years and his means of livelihood - even falling into homelessness for a time - Rodriguez has continued in the three years since 9-11 to continue his work in honor of the heroes and the victims of that awful day, as president of the Hispanic Victims Group, Director of the 9/11 United Services Group, and member of the Family Advisory Council of the Lower Manhattan Development Corporation.

    Now, this native of Puerto Rico and remarkable American hero is taking his 9-11 activism to an even higher level. He has commenced, as Plaintiff, a federal court lawsuit against George W. Bush, Richard B. Cheney, Donald H. Rumsfeld and others alleging that they and others were complicit in the 9-11 attacks, and either planned the attacks, or had foreknowledge of the attacks and permitted them to succeed, in order to exploit a "New Pearl Harbor" to launch wars against Afghanistan and Iraq. (The phrase "New Pearl Harbor" comes from a declaration of principles by the neo-conservative "Project for the New American Century," in which it is proposed as an event needed to steel American public opinion to support the overthrow of Saddam Hussein, and U.S. military domination of the Middle East.)

    Attorney Berg acknowledges that Rodriguez's action will shock and offend many Americans. But he urges critics to read the detailed complaint, posted on the internet at www.911forthetruth.com, before forming conclusions. "The 'Official Story' of what actually took place on 9-11 is a lie,"

kick for the Truth

[evolvenow]

34. British intel agent says 9/11 was inside job.

British intel agent says 9/11 was inside job.

http://www.jimmarrs.com /

Former MI5 agent David Shayler, who previously blew
the whistle on the British government paying Al Qaeda
$200,000 to carry out political assassinations, has
gone on the record with his conviction that 9/11 was
an inside job meant to bring about a permanent state
of emergency in America and pave the way for the
invasions of Afghanistan, Iraq and ultimately Iran and
Syria.

David Shayler joined MI5 in October 1991 and worked
there for five years. He started at F Branch
(counter-subversion) in January 1992, and worked in T
Branch (Irish terrorism) from August 1992 until
October 1994. He left the organization in 1996.

(more)

kick

[evolvenow]

35. No forensics, proper crime scene protocol observed. Shipped the steel over

seas.



There was no legitimate reason not to dismantle the rubble pile carefully, documenting the position of each piece of steel and moving it to a warehouse for further study.
No one was thought buried in the pile, since, unlike the Twin Towers, Building 7 had been evacuated hours before the collapse.
The pile was so well confined to the building's footprint that the adjacent streets could have been cleared without disturbing it.



Yet, despite the paramount importance of the remains, they were hauled away and melted down as quickly as possible. The steel was sold to scrap metals vendors and most was soon on ships bound for China and India. Some of the smaller pieces and a few token large pieces of steel marked 'save' were allowed to be inspected at Fresh Kills landfill by FEMA's BPAT volunteers.

http://www.wtc7.net/steeldisposal.html
(more)



This illegal evidence destruction operation was conducted over the objections of attack victims' family members and respected public safety officials. Bill Manning, editor of the 125 year old Fire Engineering Magazine, wrote in an article condemning the operation: 1
Did they throw away the locked doors from the Triangle Shirtwaist fire? Did they throw away the gas can used at the happy land social club fire? ... That's what they're doing at the World Trade Center. The destruction and removal of evidence must stop immediately.
Dr. Frederick W. Mowrer, an associate professor in the Fire Protection Engineering Department at the University of Maryland, was quoted in the the New York Times as saying: 2
I find the speed with which potentially important evidence has been removed and recycled to be appalling.






Officials running the "cleanup operation" took pains to make sure the structural steel didn't end up anywhere but in blast furnaces. They installed GPS locater devices on each of the trucks hauling loads from Ground Zero at a cost of $1000 each. One driver who took an extended lunch break was dismissed. 3