Why would Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld hang around his office

[Dancing_Dave]

Taking no defensive action against a highjacked plane coming towards the Pentagon, when that plane could easily hit his own office? He would only act the way he did IF HE KNEW THE PLANE WAS REALLY UNDER CONTROL OF HIS OWN PEOPLE, AND KNEW EXACTLY WHERE AN AIRCRAFT WOULD HIT.

Why would President Bush sit around an elementary school reading "My Pet Goat", if he himself were an easy target there? He would only act as he did if knew that the whole "terrorist attack" was under control of his people so that he would NOT be a target.

LIHOP makes no sense. A government faction staging a propaganda coup will not just let an uncontrolled terrorist attack happen when they themselves could easily be targets. No the only way they would act as they did is if the whole "terrorist attack" was under their own control so that they would know that they would be safe. :nopity:

[philb]

1. Rumsfeld's assistant was at the NMCC phone conference & briefing him

But what was so important in his office that making telephone call's there was more important than the phone conference between the FAA and military that was the main defensive effort to deal with the attacks. Those who should have been in charge(Rumsfeld, Myers, Cheney) all seemed to try to avoid having it known that they were aware of what was going on, either during or after the attacks. Very strange.

http://www.flcv.com/offcom77.html

[Rob Conn]

2. My favorite point!!!

In the midst of all these people talking about physical evidence that will lead to few new important conclusions, its nice to find that some are still focusing on the most obvious problems with the official story. Rumsfeld was in a 'breakfast meeting' with Wolfowitz and Rep. Chris Cox that morning. Despite the fact that Richard Clarke has indicated that Rumsfeld was on the phone bridge, and had sitational awareness early during the attack, he supposedly left the conference call to have a meeting. During this time he supposedly received no further updates until the Pentagon was hit, despite the fact that the a plane was known to be hijacked and heading toward him for almost an hour. Does this sound like the role of the Secretary of Defense during the largest attack on our country since Pearl Harbor? Does this sound like someone concerned for their own safety? Does this sound remotely reasonable? NO!!! Lets keep spreading the word. - R.C.

[Frederik]

6. Well, according to the Kean comm. report

They didn't know Flight 77 was even hijacked until just before it hit the Pentagon. Which is kind of implausible.

[Woody Box]

8. But they expected a hijacked plane from the NY area,

heading towards Washington, according to Myers. This was BEFORE the Pentagon attack.

Give me some time, I try to find the link.

[Woody Box]

9. Here's the link

from the Guardian, my favourite Mainstream newspaper:

General Richard Myers, vice-chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, said that before the crash into the Pentagon, military officials had been notified that another hijacked plane had been heading from the New York area to Washington.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0,1300,550486,00.html

[Frederik]

12. Thanks

Interesting and strange.

[Woody Box]

21. This is probably...

...the so-called phantom flight 11, reported "on its way to Washington" over half an hour after the North Tower crash! The Langley fighters were scrambled for this plane, yet the 9/11 Commission Report claims it was a not-existing entity: "We have been unable to identify the source of this mistaken information."

[John Doe II]

11. And of course we don't wonder

which plane Cheney was talking about when he repeatedly answered that the order still stands. Plane 80 miles out. 70.60.50.40.30:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&node=&contentId=A43708-2002Jan26¬Found=true

In the White House bunker, a military aide approached the vice president.
"There is a plane 80 miles out," he said. "There is a fighter in the area. Should we engage?"
"Yes," Cheney replied without hesitation.
Around the vice president, Rice, deputy White House chief of staff Joshua Bolten and I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Cheney's chief of staff, tensed as the military aide repeated the question, this time with even more urgency. The plane was now 60 miles out. "Should we engage?" Cheney was asked.
"Yes," he replied again.
As the plane came closer, the aide repeated the question. Does the order still stand?
"Of course it does," Cheney snapped.

Journalist Woodward didn't really wonder that this couldn't have been UA 93 as it crashed much further away.

Or is perhaps Mineta correct and he was referring to the plane coming the Pentagon. But whoops, this is not possible nobody was aware of this and which decision is the person talking about?

MR. MINETA: No, I was not. I was made aware of it
during the time that the airplane coming into the Pentagon.
There was a young man who had come in and said to the vice
president, "The plane is 50 miles out. The plane is 30 miles
out." And when it got down to, "The plane is 10 miles out," the
young man also said to the vice president, "Do the orders still
stand?" And the vice president turned and whipped his neck
around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you
heard anything to the contrary?" Well, at the time I didn't know
what all that meant. And --
MR. HAMILTON: The flight you're referring to is the --
MR. MINETA: The flight that came into the Pentagon.
MR. HAMILTON: The Pentagon, yeah.

http://www.9-11commission.gov/archive/hearing2/9-11Commission_Hearing_2003-05-23.htm

[philb]

19. Mineta is clearly talking about Flight 77 but its not clear about the

other discussion. There seems to be a contradiction.

There is plenty of evidence they knew about Fl 77 coming towards the Pentagon in time to have a jet shoot it down or to use surface to air missiles which it is known that they have. But they chose to not shoot it down. Why?
http://www.flcv.com/offcom77.html

But the first discussion implies that Cheney gave the order to shoot down some plane. But if the plane in question was Fl 77 and since its clear that they had the capability to, why didn't it happen? The only plane we know Cheney gave the order to shoot down was UA 93. But it never got within 80 miles of D.C. I don't understand how the first discussion fits in with the second?????

Was someone's statement inaccurate due to confusion or for disinformation?

[philb]

20. There were a lot of known witnesses to these conversations. So why

wasn't the issue of which plane the first conversation was related to and what happened cleared up by the 9/11 Commission?

[undeterred]

16. I think this is really important.

We know they had the motivation to allow something like this to happen, and morally speaking there is not much difference between allowing it and facilitating it.

We are probably never going to know everything that happened that day. There may be some parts of the cover story that are true despite their unbelievability, and other parts that have very little truth to them. The most disturbing things to me about the Pentagon attack are the secrecy regarding the video tapes and carrying away the physical evidence under cover- but acting suspiciously does not prove the cover story about that part of the attacks is a lie.

By focusing on the human reactions to this disastrous day I think we can get a reading on how authentic their shock was. Clearly Bush was not nearly as shocked as the rest of us. He knew something huge was going down, and that he and his family were safe. The rest of us are dispensable.

[Old and In the Way]

17. Why didn't they fess up on 9/11?

Because they still weren't sure they were going to get away with it. The difference is murder vs. manslaughter, I think. If they admitted to shooting down 93 and if evidence of their LIHOP/MIHOP had been exposed directly on 9/11, that shoot down order would suddenly become premeditated murder.

[staticstopper]

26. perhaps the reason the physical evidence meme

is pushed so hard on *both sides* at different times.

"its nice to find that some are still focusing on the most obvious problems with the official story."

Distractions need to be put on a side column, never the main part of the page, as it were. I think the physical evidence is a good tool to get ppl saying "hmmm" to themselves but then there needs clear documentation, (and when there is a cover-up...that is exactly what has been done - they hid/cover the real facts,) so it will pass the strict needs of some.

And BTW, I think we should get rid of any claims of *Smoking Guns* leave that to high-up whistle-blowers, when even more start coming forward.

[spooked911]

3. actually there are three different official versions of what Rummy was

doing during the attacks, it is not clear which is true.

See "The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions And Distortions" by David Ray Griffin

[stickdog]

4. Bush on 9/11

In July 2001, at the G8 Summit in Genoa, Italy, US President George W. Bush was himself the suspected target of a terrorist plot to crash a hijacked commercial plane into a building. "Italian officials took the reports seriously enough to prompt extraordinary precautions during the July summit of the Group of 8 nations, including closing the airspace over Genoa and stationing anti-aircraft guns at the city’s airport." (Sources: New York Newsday, Sept 19, 2001 and LA Times, Sept. 29, 2001)

Given that Bush himself was a suspected target of a "hijacked plane bomb" terrorist attack in July, how can the Bush administration possibly explain the fact that Bush kept reading about a pet goat in a widely publicized, previously scheduled public appearance in Sarasota, FL -- only 5 miles from the Sarasota-Brandenton International Airport -- for nearly 30 minutes AFTER it had become obvious to everyone that the US was dealing with a coordinated attack of suicide-bomber-terrorist-hijackers?

From 9/12 AP reports: "In Florida, Bush was reading to children in a classroom at 9:05 a.m. when his chief of staff, Andrew Card, whispered into his ear. The president briefly turned somber before he resumed reading. He addressed the tragedy about a half-hour later."

Didn't it cross anybody's mind in the entire Bush entourage that the grammar school might be the terrorists' next target and that they just might want to get Bush and ALL OF THE LITTLE KIDS he was reading with out of harm's way? If not, why not?

Remember that just two months before, Bush himself was the suspected target of just such a terrorist plot. So what's the explanation for the Secret Service's failure to evacuate Bush? Is there no one in the entire Bush administration or Secret Service with a three digit IQ?

The simplest and clearest explanation for this bizarre reaction to the VERY real potential of toddler mass murder is administration foreknowledge at the highest levels. Bravado doesn't fly as an explanation because Bush would be taking little kids with him in any potential attack. Stunned inaction doesn't fly either because the primary mission of the entire Secret Service is to ensure the President's safety. There are only two choices here: the Bush administration was either CRIMINALLY INCOMPETENT or just plain CRIMINAL.

[Rob Conn]

5. Think of the children!!!!

Yess!!! Good stuff. You and philb are rocking the house tonight. Toddler mass murder. Yess!!! Ohhh, sweet democracy. Another basic fact to promote. I've been all over tonight and suggested the same thing. We each need to investigate and discuss those facts that are in the top ten or maybe five for being most signficant in our common goal of promoting further inquiry. The aim is a curriculum for the uninitiated. A manner of best affecting a shift in perspective of those who would protect their view, set within their ego, despite the truth. Cracking open the shell with blinding truth.

The truth IS brilliant. Humans can intuitively detect truth from lie. We simply have to expose each of the these most contradictory of facts with great vigor, and all will not be lost.

Press on! - R.C.

[spooked911]

7. Yeah, baby! Rock on!

[RedSock]

10. bush - genoa - august 6 PDB

And then at some point in the last year, Bush had the balls to say that because of the Genoa threat, he took quick action and demanded some type of threat assessment -- and that turned out to be the infamous August 6 PDB.

Yeah, sure.

[spooked911]

15. Really? I never heard that. What a lying ass.

[seatnineb]

13. That's why Ziad Jarrah was flying flight 93 to Washington!........

.....because the President was in Florida!

;-)

[Old and In the Way]

18. So why didn't the Secret Service react?

That's the thing I don't get. They are trained for this very typr of situation. When the 2nd plane when in, that should have been the trigger to get the President out of an unprotected building into a secure location. That action shoud have over-ridden any photo-op....so why did they go along with the whole schedule. Bush's schedule was public knowledge, even the (:30 photo-op was public knowledge.

I've never understood their lack of action that day with Bush. Were they in on it?

[stickdog]

22. All you need is for the HEAD of the Secret Service to be in on it. The SS

takes orders. Always has and always will.

[Dancing_Dave]

14. Thanks everybody!

Your details definately helped enlighten me. I really am not as much of an "expert" on what Dubya and Rummy were doing on 9/11, as I am on the WTC disaster. I used to work for the Children's Aid Society of New York, and I have a much keener interest in New York City than I have in the Bush Administration.

But I think just a few of the clearest facts about what the President and Secretary of Defense were NOT doing shows that they knew all along that their people had this "terrorist attack" under control.

[nomatrix]

23. One more piece from Paul Thompson

http://www.complete911timeline.org/essay.jsp?article=essayairdefense
Failure to Defend the Skies on 9/11

Scroll Down to Bush at Crawford Ranch for Aug. picture

"Former US Congresswoman Cynthia McKinney said she was disturbed about the implications that “24-hour fighter cover was placed over the Bush ranch in Crawford, Texas” during his vacation there from August 4-30, 2001"

After the G8 Summit, 24hr. fighter coverage; while the tragedy is taking place, we sit still and read "My Pet Goat".

Orders change, for the Secretary of Defense to be the one to call for the NORAD actions, weeks before 9/11. Where is Rumsfeld immediately after the Pentagon is hit? Helping carry injured from the building.

Read All of the essay. Especially what actions were taken.

[LizW]

24. Getting in late on this thread

The whereabouts of Rumsfeld, Meyers and Winfield on the morning of 9/11 is an issue that drives me nuts. The barest minimum, most cursory reading of just a few widely published accounts of the morning's timeline show that they are lying about what they were doing.

Rumsfeld testified under oath that he was in a meeting with members of Congress and was handed a note when the first tower was struck. (8:46 a.m.) If we believe that, then the breakfast meeting ended soon afterwards, because he says he was in his office with a CIA briefer when he got word that the second tower was struck. (9:03 a.m.)

According to sworn testimony, he was in his office from then until "an explosion" happened at the Pentagon at 9:37 a.m.

Rumsfeld says that he was making phone calls during those 34 minutes. He says he talked to Myers, the Russians, and Bush. ????

But here's what some other people were doing during that time:

Deputy Defense Secretary Torie Clark goes to the National Military Command Center after telling Rumsfeld that a crisis management process is starting. He says he wants to make a few calls, so she goes on without him. (after 9:03 a.m.) Rumsfeld knew this was a military crisis. Also, if he did speak to Bush, it had to be between around 9:12 or 9:16 (when Bush left the classroom) and 9:29 (when Bush starts his televised speech.)

Flight Controllers nationwide learn that Flight 11 was hijacked. (9:06 a.m.)

Cheney and Rice are in the bunker under the White House. (9:10 a.m. approx.)

American and United Airlines stop all domestic take-offs. (9:15 a.m.)

The FAA confirms that Flights 11 and 175 were hijacked and shuts down all NYC airports. FAA tells the White House video conference that 11 planes are off course or out of contact. (before 9:25 a.m.)

All NYC bridges and tunnels are closed. (9:21 a.m.)

FAA issues nationwide stop on all take-offs. Cheney is told that an unidentified plane is headed toward Washington. (9:26 a.m.)

CNN reports that U.S. officials think the attacks were caused by terrorists. (9:28 a.m.)

CNN and all broadcast networks have been continuously showing the chaos in NYC, including people jumping from the burning towers.

Bush makes televised address to the country. He says it is an "apparent terrorist attack". (9:30 a.m.)

American and United order all their flights to land immediately. (9:30 a.m.)

New York Stock Exchange closes. (9:32 a.m.)

U.S. Department of Treasury is evacuated. (9:35 a.m.)

The Pentagon is hit at 9:37 a.m.

Rumsfeld says in his testimony that he went outside for a while after 9:37, then went back inside to his office for some undetermined amount of time, where he made calls. Then he went to the Executive Support Center, and then to the NMCC.

Records show that the people in the NMCC were trying to find him, but couldn't, and he did not enter the NMCC until 10:30 a.m. Neither did Myers or Winfield.

What were these people doing during the attacks?

And Myers' magical transportation from the Capitol to the Pentagon in the middle of the chaos and gridlock of Washington that morning is a subject for another post.

[Woody Box]

25. Good post

The whereabouts of these gentlemen between the second WTC crash and the Pentagon crash and how well they were informed definitely deserve more attention.

By the way, does someone know where Ashcroft was on this morning, cause one of the Langley fighters stated they escorted his plane to Reagan Airport?

[Kevin Fenton]

27. I'm not entirely sure

why Rummy is not being straight on this. My interpretation of his movements is that the breakfast meeting ended before nine, he then started his CIA briefing, made some calls (I suppose you could say the video conference was also a "call") and went outside for 20-25 minutes after the Pentagon was hit.

If we are generous we could say he was only being "economical with the truth".

What I don't understand is why he didn't mention the video conference straight out. Was something said there that shouldn't have been said? Was something not said there that should have been said?

Clarke says Myers was in the video conference too, but Myers lied through his back teeth about it and claimed he didn't he have a mobile phone. What happened there?

The bit where he goes and plays doctors and nurses outside for half an hour is incredible, but it gives me the feeling his story was cobbled together on the hoof to hide something, but what?

[staticstopper]

29. isn't there a picture of him carring

a stretcher, playing Flo Nightengale when he should have been commanding his military????

[LizW]

31. The only picture I've seen of him outside

is one that shows him walking along a sidewalk accompanied by a tall African American man. You can see the firemen in the background spraying water on the building.

I didn't find the picture in a quick Google search, but it is in Paul Thompson's Terror Timeline book.

[LizW]

30. Part of it is Rummy's congenital arrogance

and part of it is he's definitely hiding something.

I also think the stories were created on the fly, you are correct. That crap about Rummy going out and helping the injured was dropped altogether by the time of the hearings. I guess they figured out that they would actually need witnesses who saw him helping people onto stretchers and they didn't have them.

It just seems that they would have made up a better cover story for him. This "I was here, no, I was there, no I was over there" just doesn't cut it.

I guess the story seems so weird to us because we think like normal people. Say, with the best military in the world at your disposal, you fail to prevent a blatant attack on your citizens in broad daylight on your own shores? That's quite a failure, and a normal person might lie to make himself not look so miserably incompetent. You wouldn't come up with a lame story about how you were just hanging in your office, making calls that didn't amount to anything, while people in your own building were burning to death?

But that's basically what Rummy's story was. He just wasn't around during the critical minutes and hours of the attack. And as is getting to be expected, no one pressed him on it. And it's certainly not like anyone was going to force him to resign. :eyes:

[nomatrix]

34. It was on CNN 25yrs defining moments

with Aaron Brown. The spokesperson narrating the video (of him carry a stretcher) was awestruck with hero worship.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/US/09/11/pentagon.terrorism/index.html

[John Doe II]

33. If he had his CIA briefing

then why is Cox stating that he was discussing with Rummy till or almost until the Pentagon crash?
And also Wolfowitz does imply that Rummy is not having his briefing:

Wolfowitz: We were having a meeting in my office. Someone said a plane had hit the World Trade Center. Then we turned on the television and we started seeing the shots of the second plane hitting, and this is the way I remember it. It's a little fuzzy.

Q: Right.

Wolfowitz: There didn't seem to be much to do about it immediately and we went on with whatever the meeting was. Then the whole building shook. I have to confess my first reaction was an earthquake. I didn't put the two things together in my mind. Rumsfeld did instantly.
http://www.defenselink.mil/transcripts/2003/tr20030509-depsecdef0223.html

[Kevin Fenton]

35. There's no way

to get rid of all the contradictions. The version I suggested makes sense of most of the statements about Rummy's whereabouts, but not all of them. You're right that the version I suggested doesn't agree with everything. However, I think Cox might be bigging up his meeting and making it sound longer than it actually was. Wolfowitz's behaviour is completely beyond my ken, as usual.

[meppie-meppie not]

36. the WTC's are hit, they see it on the telly and Wolfshit says that when

the Pentagon shook after being hit his first thoughts were it was an earthquake? Give me a break. Your country was "supposedly" under attack and he was in the very building symbolizing the military force of your country and he doesn't connect the dots? Swallowing this story line is the height of gullibility!

[staticstopper]

28. Condi Rice / NSA had to know by

8:36am that there was a potential hijacking.

(North Tower attack plane went off course within the Eastern Seaboard at 8:20am, right?)

And all those warnings...
And all those Crawford jets...
And all those G-8 Summet missles...
And all those war-games...(even closer communication with FAA)
And all those Secret Service guys out in public w/ pRez in a known location...(surely greater watch was done when he is out in the general population)

North Tower hit at 8:46am

10 minites NYC is without protection even though it had already been attacked by terrorist a few years before and under constant threat.
Never mind the Aug 6th memo.

Why couldn't some joe blow at FAA call and say "look fellas, we got a plane acting weird, why don't you take a fighter over to the Harbor Area"?

And for god's sake why didn't they make the kiddies wait ten minutes to see if they weird acting planes were accounted for before shrub went in the school???

[LizW]

32. Yep, Condi's in the thing up to her skinny neck

There was a reason she bailed on the White House conference call and left Clarke with it while she went to the PEOC to be with Cheney and all the political people.

It was almost like there was a concerted effort to keep the Principals separate during the crucial time of the attacks.

[John Doe II]

37. Did he feel something or didn't he feel something

We all know the moving descriptions of Rummy who felt the building shake and immediately jumped into action (something he wasn't doing the whole day) and even managed with his age to be officially one of the first at the crash site (although his office was at the exact opposite side of the crash). Impressive.
But read this now:

Yet so vast is the Pentagon — it covers 29 acres — that across the massive building, many were unaware anything had happened. Air Force Maj. Alan Davis thought the alarm was simply a precaution.

“I just thought they were evacuating the building because it was a good idea,” said Davis, military aide to the assistant secretary of the Air Force for space. “Then I walked out and saw the smoke and realized it was definitely something else.”
http://www.militarycity.com/sept11/911_1068266.html

What, the guy doesn't feel anything but Rummy feels the building shaking, knows immediately what's up and is even one of the first at the crash site.
Just a rhetorical question: Does he speak the truth?

[petgoat]

38. Rummy and Cox

Here's from Dr. Griffin's "The New Pearl Harbor":

At 8:44, Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld was in the Pentagon talking
about terrorism with Representative Christopher Cox. "Let me tell
ya," the Associated Press quoted Rumsfeld as saying, "I've been around
the block a few times. There will be another event. There will be
another event." And, if he in fact said this, he was right. Two
minutes later, at 8:46, Flight 11 crashed into the WTC's North
Tower....

Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld, according to the official
account, had not been informed of the approaching and was
still with Representative Cox. While they together watched the
television coverage of the WTC, Rumsfeld reportedly demonstrated his
predictive powers again, saving: "Believe me, this isn't over yet.
There's going to be another attack, and it could be us." Moments
later, at about 9:38, the Pentagon was hit. As a result of the crash
and the ensuing fire, 125 workers in the Pentagon, primarily
civilians, were killed.


http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2004/06/141355.php

My comment: Is Rummy psychic? Or just unable to keep a secret?

[Dancing_Dave]

39. Unable to keep a secret...

Yeah, Rummy's Freudian slips are amazing. He mentioned "missiles" one time with an emotional lady reporter too!

:rofl: