More Evidence that a 757 did not hit the Pentagon --- Depleted Uranium

[Klimmer]

As far I know, civilian 757s are not made with Depleted Uranium (DU) but missiles and warheads are.

(Someone already posted this in another thread, but it needs it's own, since this is incredibly revealing)

From the interview with Iconoclast:

http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/News/2005/11-20/19news03.htm

'MORET: I’ll tell you what I did when 9/11 happened.
I called all the doctors with Radiation And Public Health Project, and I said, “Get out of town, and don’t come back until it has rained three times.” One lived 12 miles downwind from the Pentagon. She went out on her balcony with her geiger counter. I said, “Get that geiger counter out of your purse.” We had just done a press conference in San Francisco, and I knew she had it in her purse. Well, the radiation levels were 8-10 times higher than background.
We called the EPA, HAZMAT, FBI, and said, “Get all those emergency response workers suited up. They need to be protected.” Two days after 9/11, the EPA radiation expert for that region called back and said, “Yup, the Pentagon crash rubble was radioactive, and we believe it’s depleted uranium, but we’re not worried about that. It’s only harmful if it’s inhaled.”
He said, “We’re worried about the lead solder in the plane.” Well, you know what’s in Tomahawk missiles? They have depleted uranium warheads. The radioactive crash rubble contaminated with DU is evidence of a DU warhead.'


Didn't we all see images at the Pentagon crash site with workers who were eventually all suited up in HazMat suits? I do recall seeing these images. Maybe someone can find them and post them to this thread, that would be very helpful.

Also that would explain why "they" completely cleaned out the entire crash site, removed the lawn and all, replacing it with gravel and concrete etc. as shown in the last images of this website. It was all contaminated with DU and highly radioactive!:

Cleaning up the Radioactive Depleted Uranium and then covering it over with gravel, decomposed granite, then concrete. No more lawn in this region of the Pentagon:


Above image from Hunt and Spot the Boeing! Test your perception (French Site):
http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pentagone/erreurs_en.htm

Who is Leuren Moret?
Leuren Moret is a geoscientist who works almost around the clock educating citizens, the media, members of parliaments and Congress and other officials on radiation issues. She became a whistleblower in 1991 at the Livermore Nuclear Weapons Lab after witnessing fraud on the Yucca Mountain Project. She is currently working as an independent citizen scientist and radiation specialist in communities around the world, and contributed to the U.N. subcommission investigating depleted uranium. According to Wikipedia online encyclopedia, Moret testified at the International Criminal Tribunal for Afghanistan in Japan in 2003, presented at the World Depleted Uranium Weapons Conference in Hamburg, Germany, and spoke at the World Court of Women at the World Social Forum in Bombay, India, in January 2004.

Depleted Uranium: A Scientific Perspective Interview with Leuren Moret, Geo-Scientist:
http://www.iconoclast-texas.com/News/2005/11-20/19news03.htm

Depleted uranium: Dirty bombs, dirty missiles, dirty bullets
A death sentence here and abroad, by Leuren Moret (many good links included):
http://www.sfbayview.com/081804/Depleteduranium081804.shtml

--- Edited to add more links ---

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Klimmer]

2. ACM Services and 9-11-01 . . . the company that provided the clean-up

http://www.acmservices.com/Pages/pentagon.html

Interesting, they don't brag about cleaning up DU at the site:

"Beginning the afternoon of 9-11 and for the next 98 days, ACM Services’ Hazmat and demolition team lead the charge by removing hazardous materials, testing, cleaning and making the way safe for occupants, workers and for the reconstruction of Pentagon Wedge I and II, The Phoenix Project."

"Provided around the clock supervision, manpower, equipment and supplies to address and abate all environmental issues."
---Note: A question I would like to ask. What about DU? Didn't you also clean that up?

"Transported 5,072 loads of debris traveling over 600,000 road miles to a secure landfill to deposit nearly 49,000 tons of material."
---Note: This is a SECURE landfill. It would be interesting to get in there with a geiger counter. You don't want to put this Hazmat just anywhere.

'Provided personnel protective equipment including approximately 18,150 disposable “bunny” suits, 3,655 respirators and 18,766 respirator filters to rescue workers, government and military personnel.

... all in 98 days!'

---Note: it sure would have been a whole lot less hazardous without all the DU (LOL)

[Klimmer]

4. FEMA and 9-11 --- The Pentagon

Urban Search And Rescue 9/11 Fact Sheet
http://www.fema.gov/about/media9_11.shtm

"20 task force (TF) teams worked on the WTC site / five teams at the Pentagon"

"First teams on site at Pentagon: Virginia TF 1 and Maryland TF1, within hours of attack on Sept. 11, 2001"

"62 members per task force -- firefighters, medical, structural engineers, technicians, logistics, HAZMAT SPECIALISTS and canine/handler teams"

Interesting to note, that all the photos of FEMA teams on 9-11 going through the Pentagon immediately after incident don't seem to be included in their official link called "Pentagon Terrorist Attack Photographs." They only have photos of memorial services and reconstruction and then after all the initial clean-up. Those first images seem to be "scrubbed." At least I couldn't find them.:

http://www.photolibrary.fema.gov/photolibrary/photo_search.do?SDisasterNumber=1392

FEMA --- Virginia Terrorist Attack Declared September 21, 2001 (DR-1392, Virginia):
http://www.fema.gov/news/event.fema?id=129

[philb]

5. Radiation at the Pentagon on 9/11

On Sept. 11, a hijacked plane crashed into the Pentagon. Dr. Janette Sherman, research associate with the Radiation and Public Health Project, had spoken a few days earlier at a Sept. 6 press conference in Hunters Point. After the Sept. 11 attacks, Dr. Sherman notified the Nuclear Information and Resource Service that she detected elevated levels of radiation in her home, located seven miles from the Pentagon. Dr. Sherman still had a gamma meter she had borrowed for her visit to Hunter’s Point. The EPA, the FBI, and other federal agencies, including HMRU (Hazardous Materials Response Units), USAR teams, the local fire department and the Virginia HAZMAT were notified, and an investigation began at the Pentagon.

A pile of rubble from the crash was found to be radioactive, but EPA official Bill Bellinger of the agency’s Region III Environmental Radiation Monitoring Office was unconcerned when contacted by Diane D’Arrigo from the Nuclear Information and Resource Service. Bellinger indicated that it was probably depleted uranium and mentioned that Americium 241could also be scattered around the crash site. He was convinced that depleted uranium is not radiologically toxic, but commented that it is more of a hazard when aerosolized.

Firefighters, Pentagon personnel, and communities nearby did breathe the smoke and ash from the fire. The agencies that are supposed to be protecting us are not. There was no follow-up investigation.

This is meaningful for two reasons :

Scientific measurement has proved the contamination of the Pentagon's crash site by depleted uranium,
There has been a cover-up of the presence of radioactive elements by the authorities.
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/dam-inside.html

[hack89]

8. A question..

I have just spent 30 minutes searching on the internet and Leuren Moret's article is the only reference to radiation at the Pentagon. Are there other sources to this story that I am missing or there only one source? I found it perplexing that there were no direct quotes from Dr Sherman or that she remained so quiet about it - especially in view of her past and present aggressive challenging the DOD and VA about DU. Her name is all over the internet concerning DU yet there appears to be nothing about the Pentagon and 9/11. Please help me if I have missed something. Thanks.

[philb]

3. Why haven't others followed up on this?

Is anyone aware of more confirmation?

[philb]

6. The DU penetrator hypothesis

The DU penetrator hypothesis
Given the context, the physical damage on the axis of the plane, the fact that the two engines must have been deflected in their course by the wing folding process and seem to have stopped their course after one half to two third of building width penetration, the fact that there is no witness account of engine debris in the A-E drive, the small size of this heavy mass running straight ahead on the plane's axis, the tremendous mechanical damage that deformed the slab, the completely destroyed columns on it's course, the thermal damage visible on column 5N, the radial shockwave from the center of the "punch out" hole attested by the damage on the bricks of the external C ring wall, the combustion remains in A-E drive, the decontamination process on columns near the "punch out" hole, the contamination of the atmosphere of Washington DC by radioactive elements after the crash, the best hypothese is that there was a depleted uranium mass in the crashed plane. This is called a "penetrator" and is used in anti-bunker bombs, both gravity and cruise missile type.

The hypothese of a complete bomb, a "broach" type, (see description, or this technical report,) inside the luggage compartment of the Boeing 757 which hit the pentagon, along with the DU penetrator effect, seems the more realistic explanation to :

the damage near the entry point,
the bending direction of column 18 A, towards the outside of the building,
the shockwave propagation beetween rows 13 and 15 of columns, up to a large hole in the C ring wall,
the white fireball on image number 2 of cctv
the accounts of experienced military professionnals inside the pentagon (shock, smell of cordite),

the author is an engineer and pilot
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/dam-inside.html

[vincent_vega_lives]

7. DU is NOT used in warheads

Nor are they used in Bunker Buster Bombs. No need. The only place DU is used is in tank Sabot penetrators. Which are not explosive, and rely on kinetic energy to penetrate tank armor. They are only 1" in diameter.



Also used in 30mm aircraft cannon rounds, but the purpose is the same. Penetrate tank armor.

[Apple Smoothie]

9. Sorry, but... bullshit

DU IS used in a variety of bunker-busting bombs.


<snip>
"Munitions known or suspected of containing Uranium Delivery agent of munitions Total tons of DU delivered
Iraq, 1991 30mm and 120mm cannon shells Abrams tank and A-10 Warthog 320- 750*
Balkans, 1999 30 mm cannon shells, bunker busing bombs and missiles , A-10 Warthog,B-2,F-15E,BGM-109 Tomahawk and AGM-86D CALCM cruise missiles 10-200
Afghanistan 25 and 30 mm shells, bunker busting bombs and missiles F-15E, B-2, A-10, AC-130 Spooky, and Apache helicopter , GBM-109 Tomahawk and AGM-86D CALCM cruise missiles 500-600**"


"...*The widely-used Lockheed Martin GBU-28 5,000 lb. 'bunker-buster' bomb with a BLU-109 penetrator head carried only by the Air Force's F-15E's and B-2s, contains 1.5 metric tons of depleted uranium, compared to only five kilograms in the 120 mm shell. According to the GBU-28 Bunker Buster animation on USA Today the warhead is "classified".6 The 30 mm PGU-14 armor-piercing cannon shell contains 4,650 grains <0.66 pounds > of extruded DU, alloyed with 0.75 weight percent titanium.7 The Olin Corporation is the sole maker in the U.S. of DU antitank rounds, and its foundation funds "research" which purports to show that DU has no harmful health effects.

An "improved" version of this bomb - the GBU-37B, made by Northrop Grumman - with a BLU-113 warhead also contains DU. Another bunker-penetrating munition dropped on caves and tunnels in Afghanistan is the AGM-130 - widely used in the Tora Bora campaign - which is a 2,900 pound, rocket-propelled bomb fired by helicopters and F-15E's up to 40 miles away from its target.8 Other earlier versions of bunker-penetrating bombs include the GBU-15, GBU-24, GBU-27 and GBU-31."
</snip>
http://www.cursor.org/stories/uranium.htm


<snip>
"The bomb cases contained simulated nuclear components made of depleted uranium, a heavy metal that closely approximates the physical characteristics of enriched uranium, without the hazards associated with weapons-grade material. Use of depleted uranium allowed scientists to realistically assess the effects of impact."
</snip>
http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/bomber/n19980326_980417.html


I'm not saying I agree with the missile theory of the pentagon (I don't), but you were incorrect.

[mirandapriestly]

22. Bunker Busters & DU

http://science.howstuffworks.com/bunker-buster3.htm

One material that is both extremely strong and extremely dense is depleted uranium. DU is the material of choice for penetrating weapons because of these properties. For example, the M829 is an armor-piercing "dart" fired from the cannon of an M1 tank. These 10-pound (4.5-kg) darts are 2 feet (61 cm) long, approximately 1 inch (2.5 cm) in diameter and leave the barrel of the tank's cannon traveling at over 1 mile (1.6 km) per second. The dart has so much kinetic energy and is so strong that it is able to pierce the strongest armor plating.

much more at link

[Apple Smoothie]

10. Depleted Uranium is also used in aircraft

Depleted Uranium is used as a stabilizer in many older aircraft.

<snip>
"Depleted uranium is also used in a number of civilian applications, generally where a high density weight is needed.

Such applications include sailboat keels, as counterweights and sinker bars in oil drills, gyroscope rotors, and in other places where there is a need to place a weight that occupies as little space as possible. Tungsten could be used instead, but it is much more expensive. Traditional wooden cutter beating. ... Acrobatic bicycle is possible thanks to gyroscopic effects A gyroscope is a device which demonstrates the principle of conservation of angular momentum, in physics this is also known as gyroscopic inertia or rigidity in space. ...

Aircraft may also contain depleted uranium counterweights (a Boeing 747 may contain 400–1,500kg). However there is some controversy about its use in this application because of concern about the uranium entering the environment should the aircraft crash, since the metal can oxidise to a fine powder in a fire. This was highlighted by the collision of two Boeing 747s at Tenerife Airport in 1977 when the resulting fire consumed 3000kg of the material. (Another well-known crash with DU release was the Bijlmermeer disaster in 1992 in Amsterdam.) Consequently its use has been phased out in many newer aircraft, for example both Boeing and McDonnell-Douglas discontinued using DU counterweights in the 1980s."
</snip>
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Depleted-uranium

[philb]

11. Because of the questions raised about the radiation at the Pentagon, Boein

Boeing specificly noted in a release that although DU has been used in 747s, it is not used in 757 and 767 Boeings.

[Klimmer]

13. Yes, but according to Leslie M. Nichols, a spokesman for Boeing . . .

'If the radiation came from the explosion and fire at the Pentagon, it most likely did not come from a Boeing 757, which is the type of aircraft that allegedly hit the building.

"BOEING HAS NEVER USED DU ON EITHER THE 757 OR THE 767, and we no longer use it on the 747," Leslie M. Nichols, product spokesperson for Boeing's 767, told AFP. "Sometime ago, we switched to tungsten, because it is heavier, more readily available and more cost effective."'

From the link at the beginning of this discussion . . .
http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2004/10/300788.shtml

-Edit to add link-

[DoYouEverWonder]

19. Oh yeah

just what I want in the keel of my sailboat. What a great idea?

[philb]

12. 2 Fr. Engineers who analyzed the Pentagon Damage agree: bomb, conspiracy,

and cover-up; they have detailed analysis of the official ASCE report which they call detailed in description but dumb in explanation of likely cause of damage.

Discussion by Desmoulins(Engineer & Pilot)
I discussed somehow with Eric Bart this DU penetrator hypothesis. Eric is convinced, also, that a 757-200 hit the Pentagon and that an explosion occured during the crash. He argues that it is a shaped charge, and that all the damage can be explained in this way. Though I respect his point of view, I disagree on this particular point.

The first damage, near the entry point could be due to a solid explosive, like a shaped charge explosion. The other damage, deeper inside the building up to the "punch out" hole, are more likely due to a depleted Uranium penetrator. The fact that the damage trajectory is deflected by pillars 1 K and 5 N shows that it cannot be the plasma influx of a shaped charge which did this, but that it is a solid mass which is deflected unpon impact with pillars.

But, whatever it is which made the damage deep inside the Pentagon, Eric and I agree on the fact that the plane contained a military charge (bomb) before taking off. Just a disagreement on the model...

Conclusion
The witness accounts, the damage inside the Pentagon and the available data about this crash, ASCE report and CCTV video frames, prove a conspiracy and a cover-up. The plane had been prepared with a military charge on board, and was used as a missile. The complexity of the approach trajectory, along with this "missile-like" use makes it probable that it was under electronic control, at least for the last part of the trajectory. This sophisticated attack scheme, with the use of the more recent high technologies, cannot be the product of "arab terrorists armed with box cutters". There seems to be some cover-up of facts, as well in the ASCE report as in the reports made by specialists of seismic detection.
http://perso.wanadoo.fr/jpdesm/pentagon/pages-en/dam-inside.html

I've previously posted Eric's URL
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[philb]

15. Desmoulins site notes that the ASCE report documents and comments

that some of the damage at the Pentagon was "caused by the FBI" and that the FBI also apparently carried out decontamination of some of the contaminated columns and areas.

Seems the FBI has been involved in controversy at all sites as well as in the lead up to 9/11.

[Klimmer]

14. Here is a website showing Satellite images of the Pentagon . . .

before 9-11, 9-12, and then sometime later, a year, and more:

One year from Space, 9-11, WTC Towers area and Pentagon:
http://www.spaceimaging.com/gallery/9-11/default.htm

What I find interesting is that they didn't go after restoring the Pentagon grounds outside as they were before 9-11. It is as though they had to clear out, dig out, and completely move the Hazmat material (DU) and then went ahead and purposefully built-out that area to have the entire 9-11 footprint obscured and covered by concrete and/or buildings.

Even years after the event I would imagine that walking around with a geiger counter at the Pentagon and walking through the entire region of the 9-11 footprint would still register a slightly higher reading than normal background levels. This experiment would be worth doing. Someone needs to take a tour over the entire grounds in that area and see if they get a higher reading than those regions not directly affected by 9-11 at the Pentagon. I do not think that you can clean it all up, no matter how careful you are, when it is dispersed by the explosion of a large bomb. It is going to go everywhere in the immediate area and then carried into the atmosphere as well.

I seriously doubt they would let someone, a civilian, walk the grounds with a geiger counter taking readings and then comparing them to readings of areas outside of the 9-11 footprint. You think?

Do they allow tours at the Pentagon? I have a few older Civil Defense geiger counters (that work great) that I use for teaching modern physics and the electro-magentic spectrum to my students (gamma rays are radioactive). A systematic geiger counter walking grid at precise intervals over the entire region to include areas outside as well as inside the 9-11 footprint and then map the readings.

Perhaps I should call Rumsfeld personally and ask if he wouldn't mind.

:rofl:

[Klimmer]

16. This needs to be kicked again, I used some resources here . . .

in another unrelated forum to Dem. Underground. Very good evidence to help fight the 9-11 Commission Report CT.

[sabbat hunter]

17. lawn redone

could it possibly be that the lawn needed to be redone because of all the trucks, rescue vehicle and clean up vehicles that needed to be parked on it?

from the looks of that picture, a temporary road is being built so clean up vehicles can get in and out easily. note how it has a gravel bed then a good layer of even but narrow soil. if you were making a new lawn you wouldnt put down gravel like that.
if it was a complete cover up of the lawn the would start at one end and work the way down. not do it a narrow road like that.

[Bouvet_Island]

21. Would they have to?

Why? Because it would suit your line of thoght? What if they both needed to run vehicles across and put down a foundation at once? Not saying you don't have a point but the point "vehicles driving", it doesn't contradict the point "waste removal". You are not pointing to incoherence in the other sides' argument, which doesn't even need the removal of that mass as a proof, the case is better made from the damage profile and the observations of radiactivity. It'd be nice to get a better verification from more sources but the theory isn't incoherent with any observed facts. Also the only theory it really makes a beating of is the official, there are options for both different types of planes (though not the official one), I think known cruise missile rockets, mixed or new unknown weapon platforms or exotic explanations. Although probably some sort of plane would make sense following this theory, in order to somewhat mimic damages from the proxy plane.

[sabbat hunter]

28. the foundation

is for drainage on the road. otherwise the road would turn to mud and could flood out.

[adolfo]

18. kick

for truth. :kick:

[rman]

20. kick

[TheWraith]

23. So many things wrong or made up with this, I don't know where to start.

Depleted uranium isn't radioactive in the conventional sense. That's why it's "depleted," as it's had all the useful gamma producing isotopes extracted. All that's left is alpha particles, which are essentially harmless unless inhaled. The message points this out, but then goes on to construct an elaborate conspiracy around how it somehow magically created dangerous radiation.

Likewise, depleted uranium cannot make a site radioactive. It can be a health hazard, since it's a heavy metal and therefore toxic, but it can't make an environment radioactive.

There's no such thing as a "depleted uranium warhead." Depleted uranium isn't an explosive or a payload, it's a material used for its hardness, and therefore armor-piercing qualities. It has nothing to do with the actual warhead of a bomb.

Tomahawk missiles do not now have, nor have they ever had, depleted uranium in them.

Again, there's no gamma radioactivity in depleted uranium, nor can it cause an environment to become radioactive. If you want to contend otherwise, please explain why they would use something that would be so obvious and detectable by so many people, when even according to this theory it was completely unneccessary.

[rman]

24. So presence of DU does not exclude use of some weapon,

ie a bunker buster.
I don't think anyone claimed DU is in fact an active payload.

If DU was present, there was reason to take measures to prevent certain individuals from becoming contaminated by it. Not because it makes the surroundings radio active, but because it is toxic.

[TheWraith]

25. No evidence of any of that.

One, there is no real evidence that there ever was any depleted uranium at the Pentagon site. One dubious third-hand claim by one person doesn't count--show me an independant second source.

Two, there's no solid evidence of depleted uranium in "bunker busters" either. It's only commonly used in weaponry designed to penetrate armor--tank shells, cannon rounds, that sort of thing. Not bombs.

And "depleted uranium warhead" pretty much implies the idea that the warhead is depleted uranium.

[Klimmer]

26. Yes, DU is radioactive in the conventional sense.

It doesn't have as much Gamma decay that's true, but it does have some, it is still undergoing this decay. Whether it is the most dangerous radioactive decay --- Gamma, or less harmful decay --- Alpha and/or Beta, it is all radioactive decay and will trigger a geiger-counter. To say it is not radioactive in the conventional sense you are absolutely wrong. Radioactivity includes all forms of decay, not just Gamma.

True, Alpha and Beta decay are not as dangerous as Gamma. Our skin stops Alpha decay. However, if inhaled or digested, any element or substance undergoing alpha decay can be very dangerous. From the inside our bodies are very exposed to Alpha, and Beta decay.

The vets from the Gulf and Iraq war who have had direct exposure to the weaponry using DU and are now suffering would disagree with you, as well as Iraqi civilians and children being born with severe birth defects.

Vaporized DU does pollute the environment, because it has the potential to be inhaled or accidentally digested. Yes DU is primarily used as a dense metal that can penetrate armory etc., but it also has the additional wicked effect of killing for generations to come, and rendering an area as very dangerous and inhabitable.

[TheWraith]

27. That's not quite the case.

When most people think of radioactivity, they think of gamma rays, which is the dangerous form of direct radiation. Alpha and beta are harmless in all but a few circumstances (inhaled, ingested, or injected), so to link them to gamma radiation is rather deceptive. It paints a picture for people who don't know the difference. Hence, my statement that DU isn't radioactive in the conventional sense, as it has almost no gamma emissions. And in the original context, it's not capable of rendering an environment radioactive.

While depleted uranium can be dangerous, the Gulf War provided a HUGE number of potential toxic sources--vaporized chemical weapons depots, massive oil-well fires speading toxic smoke and chemicals for hundreds of miles, not to mention the vaccines of highly questionable lineage that were required for all US troops. Interestingly, as I understand it the French troops in the Gulf, who refused the vaccines that the US got, have suffered only about 5% of the ill effects that US soldiers have. So depleted uranium as the one and only cause of all issues in Iraq isn't a slam dunk case.