Who Knows What Happens When You Use High Explosives On Steel?

[Christophera]

How well does it work in comparisons with using HE on other materials? What are the guidelines for loading and safety? What does it look like compared to other materials?

[petgoat]

1. Van Romero Knows n/t

[Christophera]

4. Yes He Does, But It Appears None On This Board Do.

Those discussing demolition or those denouncing demolition should know what happens because it is vital to understanding what DID NOT HAPPEN on 9-11 at the WTC.

[Christophera]

5. If None Here Know, How Can They Evaluate Images For Type Of Explosion?

I'm trying to make a MAJOR point about the structure by defining what it would look like to blow it up when it is comprised of different materials.

but, ............... it appears that none know what happens when HE is used on steel.

[Christophera]

6. Basically Most Of The Energy Is Reflected

Which is why shaped charges or tamping must be used. If not, the charges must be very heavily loaded to be sure steel is sheared.

When steel is blasted with high explosives pieces of the steel are severed and thrown for long distances. Other softer materials nearby are pulverized into fine dust and seen jetting outwards. Typically steel is spintered at the ends or otherwise seriously deformed and torn when observed later.

[rman]

2. I do know there are many different kinds,

and that there's one that doesn't so much explode as it 'burns' very hot and very briefly, kindof like a blow torch. I don't have a source at hand but there's a company out there that prides itself on using such relatively quiet demolition explosives.

[Christophera]

3. I Know What Happens But I'm Looking To Find Others.

You are talking about thermite. 3,000 F at 20,000 fps burn rate. It hisses, violently and won't detonate.

I'm looking for people who know.

Who saw the "myth busters" blow up a cement truck with ANFLO and TNT?

[Christophera]

9. Thermite Makes A Violent Hissing, Quiet By Explosive Standards

Other wise well contained explosions of high explosives are rather muffled, no loud "bang". More like "kawump" with a shock wave.

If 75 millisecond delays are used, 13 fit into one second, it makes a roaring noise, just like we heard.

[philb]

14. Was this witness talking about the explosion or the debris going "ssss"?

EMT JUAN RIOS WTC2
I was hooking up the regulator to the O-2, when I hear people screaming and a loud explosion, and I heard like “sssssssss…” the dust like “sssssssss…” So I come out of the bus, and I look and I see a big cloud of dust and debris coming from the glass… through the condominium, the other building, and like, glass falling. So I just started to run, everybody ran, so I just ran. Our bus, it got totaled.


EMT JASON CHARLES FILE No. 9110486
WTC1 Ground level explosion before it fell
WE GET TO THE BACK WE DONT EVEN GET TO THE BACK OF THE BUILDING WE START WALKING BACK THERE AND THEN I HEARD GROUND LEVEL EXPLOSION AND IM LIKE HOLY SHIT AND THEN YOU HEARD THAT TWISTING METAL WRECKAGE AGAIN THEN SAID SHIT AND EVERYBODY STARTED RUNNING

Police Lieutenant Michael Murphy Handwritten report. Pages 3&4 (pa-police-reports01.pdf pages 10-11) http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/readart.cgi?ArtNum=38371
“…We came upon the NYPD Chief of Detectives with a couple of his men. They appeared to be appraising the situation. We proceeded past them and were within a block of WTC when a couple of loud explosions occurred in front of us.”

[philb]

7. What could cause temperature of 2000 degrees in debris?

The temperature at the core of "the pile," is near 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, according to fire officials, who add that the fires are too deep for firefighters to get to. As the rubble is removed, oxygen causes the fires still smoldering to strengthen, making the task more difficult.
http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/WTC_recovery010918.html

[Christophera]

8. Molten Steel, Insulated In The Elevator Pits

The molten steel will keep the fire lit, ready to flare with oxygen.

[Christophera]

10. My Point: If The Multiple Steel Core Columns Existed They Were Cut

and we did not see the explosions required to do that.



With 47 steel tubes core columns over 1,000 cuts would be required to have the long core pieces disapear from demo photos. They are never seen, they did'nt exist and if they did, there would be a series of HUGE explosions that threw stuff for very long distances, including big steel.

Like 1,000 feet. Smaller projectiles for nearly a mile.

The explosions we saw were very well contained and their energy was used very efficiently to pulverize concrete that in turn pushed structural steel outward, tearing and ripping it apart with a wave of mineral mass.

[spooked911]

13. so what are we seeing? Some small tactical nukes doing this?

Some new technology?

It's bizarre that is for sure.

[Christophera]

11. Controlled Demoliton Expert Responds | From Another 9-11 Board

aelphaeis_mangarae wrote

This guy at ATS knows this controlled demoliton guy or something, he emailed him and asked him some questions

I am trying to get more info about the guy so I can write an article on it and publish it on my website (http://911physics.co.nr)

* Is it possible to do a demolition wirelessly?

* How do they know if all the charges go off or not?

* What happens if a charge fails to go off and the buildings falls anyway?

* Would it be possible to rig up a building so that the sounds of the explosives going off would not be noticed from a few blocks away?

* How would you place a cutting charge on a box column if you only had access to one face of that column?

* If you put a cutting charge on one face of a 12 inch box column that was strong enough to sever that column, how far would the shrapnel fly?

* What does a steel beem look like after it has been cut by an explosive charge.

* What is the long term stability of the explosives used in demolition projects?

* "removing the bottom 25 feet or so" How does that explain your theory that damage to UPPER floors caused the building to collapse like a controlled demo?

* Have you ever worked with C4 or military-grade explosives before? How do they differ from conventional demolition explosives?

* Imagine for a moment that the WTC towers were indeed brought down with explosives, what kind of explosive would you surmise it was done with?

* If you severed 10% or less of the support columns near the top of a steel frame building whose core had a load-bearing redundancy of 500-600%, would the building then collapse down to the ground?

* If you severed some exterior columns and core columns on only one side of a building such that the building collapsed, will the building collapse tilt to one side or will it fall straight down in a symmetrical collapse. Will the entire floor where the columns were severed collapse symmetrically and simultaneously, the unbroken columns included?

* Conventional controlled demolition works by severing a building's supports and then letting gravity do the rest, correct? In your experience in the industry, have you ever seen a steel frame building completely collapse, all its support columns severed, all of its concrete exploded into fine powder and spread into a giant dust cloud several kilometers in width, and 80% all of its exterior columns being blasted outside of the building's footprint, just under gravity alone with no explosives to help it?

* If molten steel was found in the basement of a collapsed building where the foundation was, what technology or explosive could possibly cause this? Would the presence of molten steel be unusual for a building that collapsed under gravity alone?

* Have you ever seen the footage of WTC7's collapse? Does this look like a conventional controlled demolition to you or not?

* WTC7 exhibited a perfectly symmetrical collapse supposedly because of relatively small fires on a couple of levels. How do you summise this occured? Do you think in the future setting buildings on fire could be a cheaper method of demolishing buildings than the current method of using explosives?

* If you were contracted to demolish the WTC towers but had to make it look like it collapsed by itself from the top down, how would you do it?
















Reply:

quote: Wireless? Yes, There are detonating cord and radio systems for initiating explosives.

Detonators (electric caps ) can be checked in advance with a specially built galvanometer. Modern initiating systems are very reliable....Sometimes, a cap will work but fail to detonate an explosive charge. Sometimes, a mangled charge (minus detonator) will get dug up in the rubble..

The sound of metal cutting shaped charges is incredibly loud and difficult to conceal.

Access to each side of a box column is needed....there are outrageous exceptions.

Most shaped charges are made of Metal (usually copper) tube that is pressed to look like this ^ . They have a core of explosive that detonates at a velocity of about 5 miles per second. The backside of these charges can send bits of metal shrapnel that can be found buried in solid steel hundreds of feet away. So, some kind of protection (cover ) is often needed..There is one brand of charge that does not have a metal backside....but it uses more explosive (more expense, more noise, more concussion)

Linear shaped charges work by sending a pencil-lead thin, focussed beam of metal particles (moving at about 10 times the speed of a rifle bullet) through a steel target. The cut is as neat and clean as though cut with a knife....much neater than a cutting torch.

The explosives used in shaped charges are stable for years.

Upper and lower segments of similar material are both diminished at the point of contact,

C-4 is made with RDX ..The same stuff that's preferred in linear shaped charges..Only linear shaped charges would be considered for demo of a big steel building by an expert.
Once again, there are outrageous exceptions.

10% No

One explanation does not fit all structures..This one is bigger than anything anyone has actually experienced, so I can't say how it should have looked.

Can't explain the molten steel.

I saw the footage. Yes ,, It looked like conventional explosive demolition. I saw a TV documentary about this event, the building's internal structure, the video of the collapse,and the points of structural failure. Personally, I was satisfied with its explanations.....But who can know for sure?

It has been an honor to answer your questions..but time wont permit me to continue....please, no more.

[spooked911]

12. Good stuff! Thanks. I wonder what the "outrageous exceptions" are?

[Christophera]

15. Outrageous = Eyeball Estimates That WILL Get The Job Done.

Access to each side of a box column is needed....there are outrageous exceptions.

In the above case 10 to 20 times the charge as when access to all sides is available.

C-4 is made with RDX ..The same stuff that's preferred in linear shaped charges..Only linear shaped charges would be considered for demo of a big steel building by an expert.Once again, there are outrageous exceptions.

The same kind of overloading without shape charges or RDX would need to be done.