Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

77 unanswered questions concerning 7/7:

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » September 11 Donate to DU
 
John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 04:45 PM
Original message
77 unanswered questions concerning 7/7:
77 unanswered questions concerning 7/7 :

This is a list of so far unanswered questions concerning the bombings in London on 7/7.
This list is not a conclusive judgement on the investigation as it is still ongoing but a list that will help measure the quality of the investigation. A real investigation should come up with answers to every single question. Presenting this list is also a way of documenting that the critical public follows the investigation very carefully and has all theses questions it wished to be answered. Contrary to most of the media who have apparently forgotten that asking questions was once the main aspect of investigative journalism.


The CCTV images:
“London is now the undisputed capital of CCTV cameras, with more than any other big city on earth.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/comment/story/0,16141,1530651,00.html
It has 2500 CCTV cameras in the center.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1690391,00.html
Tube and busses do have CCTV cameras as well.
All in all detectives are viewing films from more than 5000 cameras.
(Express, 7/15/05)
“So far, they have collected more than 12,000 CCTV tapes, of which they have viewed around 6,000. They expect to view around 25,000 in total.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1531453,00.html

Therefore the CCTV cameras should be considered as a perfect eyewitness of the 7/7 bombings as all of them happened in public places and all four alleged bombers travelled to their final destination with public transport.


1. Why does the CCTV image from Luton (the only photo showing all four alleged bombers) sometimes have no stamp at all, sometimes a stamp only of the date, sometimes of date and time, sometimes of date, time and number of the camera?


2. As CCTV images do stills every three seconds why wasn’t another image from the same camera at Luton released that allows to see all four persons more clearly? The quality of the image is so bad that one alleged bomber doesn’t even seem to have a face.

3. There was talk of a strange fifth person:
“CCTV pictures show him (alleged bomber Hasib Hussain) at Luton station at 7:20am. With his three fellow killers and possibly a fifth terrorist, he travelled from there to King's Cross, where the suicide mission began. “
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1398122005
Why weren’t theses CCTV pictures made public so people could help? Who is this fifth person?

4. The media first reported of a CCTV image made in King’s Cross that showed all four. Yet, the only image is from Luton.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1527404,00.html
Why then did the media report of the King’s Cross one? If it exists: Why was this one never made public?

5. Why is there only one close up photo of the alleged bombers Hasib Hussain?

There should be many many more.

6. Why is this the only close up photo of any of the four alleged bombers? Why was not a single other photo from 7/7 released? There should be many many more. Keep in mind that much more photos have been released for the alleged bombers of the second attack on 7/21 although both incidents happened basically in the same public space. Why the huge difference?

7. Why especially was no photo published showing the four alleged bombers entering their last tube and their last bus? This would be a very important proof of their crime. Keep in mind that tube and busses do have CCTV cameras inside. See the photos of alleged bombers from 7/21:


8. Why is no CCTV image released showing the alleged bombers with their backsacks sitting at the place in the tube where the bomb exploded?

9. A “bus had four cameras - one covering people getting on, the second at the exit doors and one on each deck scanning the length of the vehicle.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15717499%26method=full%26siteid=94762%26headline=exclusive%2d%2d58%2d%2dthe%2dhunt-name_page.html
Why did none of the four CCTV cameras in bus no. 30 work on 7/7? http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15717499%26method=full%26siteid=94762%26headline=exclusive%2d%2d58%2d%2dthe%2dhunt-name_page.html
Scotland Yard’s speculation that the bus driver might have forgotten to switch them on is not correct as the cameras are always switched on.

Summary:
Although the CCTV cameras should have provided Scotland Yard with an unparalleled amount of visual evidence the absence of published evidence is striking. If Scotland Yard has more evidence in his hands why don’t they publish them moreover if they would many questions they raised would be answered by theses images.


The journey of the alleged bombers:
10. The CCTV at Luton was made at 7:21.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/london-bomber-slipped-the-net-twice-before/2005/07/17/1121538868658.html
The four alleged bombers are said to have arrived at 8:30 at King’s Cross. ‘AP, 7/12/05)
Yet, the trip does take much less time then one hour (departure and arrival times are: 7:24-7:59, 7:30-8:03, 7:40-8:15 and 7:48-8:19). So, what did the four do in the mean time?

11. Officially the four alleged bombers arrived at 8:30 at King’s Cross. Their final destination of three of them takes clearly less than 20 minutes. (Russel Station is only one station) What did they do during theses 20 minutes? What do CCTV images show?

12. Scotland Yard is wondering why Hasib Hussain waited for 81 minutes till his bomb exploded. There is speculation that he was supposed to board the Northern Line.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1529899,00.html
Why is Scotland Yard forced to speculate ? Why don’t they simply watch the CCTV images from the Northern Line halt at King’s Cross? If Hussain tried to board it but couldn’t because the line was temporarily interrupted one should see Hussain arriving at the halt and disappointedly returning. Why the need to speculate?

Summary:
CCTV images should basically tell us everything the four alleged bombers made on 7/7 in public spaces yet Scotland Yard is far from knowing a lot as it seems. Besides a vague photo from Luton at 7:21 we have nothing at hands.


Eyewitnesses:
Not only the CCTV cameras should be of great help for the investigation but eyewitnesses as well. Especially given the fact that the crime happened in public space, that many eyewitnesses have survived the blasts and that the four bombers should have been seen in Luton, in the Thameslink, waiting at the tube station etc.

13. An open question is still for Scotland Yard on which bus station Hasib Hussain got on bus no. 30. http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1398122005
Why does no eyewitness remembers on which station Hussain got on the bus?

14. Very crucial is the question: Why is there in general not a single eyewitness so far who actually saw one of the four alleged bombers?

15. There are two special cases of eyewitnesses that needs further specification: Richard Jones who claims to have seen Hasib Hussain in bus no. 30 and Bruce Lait who was in the tube that exploded at Liverpool Street.
Why is Richard Jones all over the news although it is fairly easy to prove that he can’t have seen Hussain on bus no.30?
A proof here:
http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?9.366.50 (Scroll to “Topwitness Richard Jones) and
http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?9.366.60 (Scroll to “Clothes”)
The simplest refusal is the fact that Jones claimed to have been downstairs: http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15721018&method=full&siteid=86024&headline=7-7-london-the-witness--i-thought-bomber-on-my-bus-was-only-playing-with-ipod--name_page.html
While the explosion happened upstairs and took of the roof of the bus.

16. Of course it is possible that Richard Jones simply mistook his neighbour for Hussain. But it is noteworthy that Jones’ accounts also has striking contradictions with the account of the bus driver George Paradakis:
Richard Jones describes in his accounts that because of the alleged bomber who didn’t stop fidgeting in his backsack he was annoyed and wanted to get off. The driver agreed to stop the bus although there was no bus stop and “About half a dozen got out the back door just before us and the same number, including me, left by the front.” http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15721018&method=full&siteid=86024&headline=7-7-london-the-witness--i-thought-bomber-on-my-bus-was-only-playing-with-ipod--name_page.html
“As he and another dozen frustrated passengers who had also abandoned the bus began to walk away, it was ripped apart by the bomb”
http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15721018&method=full&siteid=86024&headline=7-7-london-the-witness--i-thought-bomber-on-my-bus-was-only-playing-with-ipod--name_page.html
Richard Jones specifies: “The bus moved about 15 yards and exploded behind me.”
http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser?Action=UserDisplayFullDocument&orgId=574&topicId=100007216&docId=l:295395745&start=5
But bus driver George Paradakis tells a very different story.
“Although the bus usually travels from Hackney Wick to Marble Arch, it had been re-routed by police to avoid areas cordoned off near Underground stations. Such was the demand for buses that Psarabakis was unable to pick up all the passengers looking to board the number 30. Confused by the re-routing, the driver pulled up at the junction of Upper Woburn Place and Tavistock Place to ask two traffic wardens' advice on the best route to Marble Arch. As the wardens approached the bus, an explosion ripped through the upper deck of Psarabakis's vehicle, throwing the roof onto the street.”
(Sunday Tribune, 7/10/05)
The parking attendant warden Ade Soji agrees with the bus driver:
“Ade Soji, 35, a parking attendant from Dagenham, east London, said he had given directions to the driver of the diverted bus just before it exploded. "The bus stopped and the driver asked me the name of the street," Mr Soji said. "I told him Tavistock Square and he called me over. Just as I was about to go, I heard the bus explode.
"In another second I would have been dead. I had to run for my life. I looked back and saw the roof flying over."
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/08/nbomb208.xml
(Sunday Herald, 7/10/05)
While Jones states that the bus continued its way and Paradakis states he stopped (apparently not to let off any passengers but to ask for the best way – although how likely is it that an experience bus driver gets lost?) and didn’t have a chance to continue his way because of the blast.
Moreover Jones clearly mentions that he and a dozen passengers got off then why does Paradakis mention that he couldn’t allow waiting people to get on his bus? There should be some space for a dozen passengers, shouldn’t it.
Was Richard Jones really on bus no. 30?
Where are accounts of any of the dozens passengers that experienced exactly the same miraculous survival as Richard Jones?

17. Bruce Lait had been on the tube on Liverpool Street. His recollection of who is in the carriage is very precise: “He recalled that the carriage had about 20-25 people in it, from all walks of life, and aged from their teens to over 60.
"I remember an Asian guy, there was a white guy with tracksuit trousers and a baseball cap, and there were two old ladies sitting opposite me," he said.”
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/region_wide/2005/07/11/83e33146-09af-4421-b2f4-1779a86926f9.lpf
He is very close to where the bomb went off: “"Out of that whole carriage, I think Crystal and I were the only ones who were not seriously injured, and I think we were nearest the bomb.”
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/region_wide/2005/07/11/83e33146-09af-4421-b2f4-1779a86926f9.lpf
"The policeman said 'mind that hole, that's where the bomb was'. The metal was pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train. They seem to think the bomb was left in a bag, but I don't remember anybody being where the bomb was, or any bag," he said.”
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/region_wide/2005/07/11/83e33146-09af-4421-b2f4-1779a86926f9.lpf
Why did he see nobody?

18. How come “metal was pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train.”?

19. Was the bomb underneath the train?

Summary:
Not only the absence of CCTV evidences but also of any eyewitness who actually saw the alleged bombers.
To put it in a nutshell: The strange thing is that the four alleged bombers somehow managed to be neither witnessed by other people nor by any CCTV camera.


Analysing the crash sites :
20. Given the suspicion that a bomb was underneath the carriage (based on Bruce Lait’s account): Is there any official description of the damage done to this carriage?

21. Are there furthermore official documentations about the damage done to the two other tubes and bus no. 30?

22. Is there any conclusion where the bombs were placed?


Analysing the bombs:
One central question in any case of a explosion is to determine what kind of bomb was used.

23. Why did the statement which explosives the alleged bombers used changes several times: at first “high-grade military explosives” http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1690391,00.html
“military TNT originating from former Soviet satellite countries”
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/bfbf76d8-f33a-11d9-843f-00000e2511c8.html
then “TATP, or triacetone triperoxide, a compound that can be made from easily purchased chemicals”
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-britbombs16jul16,1,7185243,full.story?coll=la-headlines-world&ctrack=1&cset=true
then even “innocent designer perfumes and aftershaves (were used) as a deadly mix for the London gang's home-made devices”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15747958&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=7-7--war-on-britain--scent-from-hell----name_page.html
Finally after two weeks it is officially stated that Scotland Yard has no clue and that it is unclear when they will figure out what kind of explosives had been used.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1532191,00.html
How is this ever changing story explainable ? Why is it so difficult to examine the explosives? There are even portable machines available that are supposed to analyse explosives right on the spot.
http://securitysa.com/news.asp?pklNewsID=12022&pklIssueID=351&pklCategoryID=111

24. Was alcohol used in the explosives as the story of Lindsay buying perfumes for £700 suggests? (The explanation given was that he used the alcohol of the perfumes).
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15747958&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=7-7--war-on-britain--scent-from-hell----name_page.html
If yes, why wasn’t this found out before? Why was the story of Lindsay buying perfumes for 700 £ needed to realize the use of alcohol?
If not, what is the sense of Lindsay’s excessive shooping?

25. Based on the statement that Scotland Yard still doesn’t know the compounds of the bomb used this comparison between the bombs from 7/7 and 7/21 appears surprising:
“THE same prolific bombmaker built the deadly devices used by the two suicide squads that attacked London this month, security sources have told The Times.
A number of bombs and components, some packed with nails to cause death and maximum injury, were recovered from a car parked by the July 7 bombers at Luton station.
Senior sources told The Times that the devices recovered at Luton are “strikingly similar in their configuration and contents” to the unexploded bomb found at Warren Street Tube station on July 21.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1711357,00.html
On the first glance this statement creates a sort of missing link between the two attacks, yet: How can they know that if they still have no clue what kind of bombs were used on 7/7 ?

Summary:
Again what is striking is the absence of any conclusive statement.


Bombs and explosives left in Luton:
26. “Investigators reportedly found another nine bombs in Lindsay's red Fiat, which had been parked at Luton railway station.”
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/london-bomber-slipped-the-net-twice-before/2005/07/17/1121538868658.html
Why would an alleged bomber that normally would aim for the biggest possible destruction leave nine bombs behind instead of using them or distributing them to his fellow bombers in order to create an even bigger destruction?

27. Why are on July 27 12 bombs in the rented car reported and not 9 anymore?
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/LondonBlasts/story?id=979905

28. Why does other newspaper even speak of 16 bombs?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1710339,00.html

29. The presented bombs (on photos as well) are nail bombs.

Why did the alleged bombers apparently leave nail bombs in the car while taking simple bombs for the attacks?

30. Why should the alleged bombers leave bombs in general (they could perfectly have used as well in the attacks) in the cars at Luton?
The following explanation hardly makes sense:
"I believe that the explosives left in that car were left there for a second strike," said Bob Ayers, a London-based terrorism consultant with expertise in demolition. "But the metropolitan police responded so quickly, they were able to get to the car and take control of the car before the second team could get the explosives and leave.""
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/LondonBlasts/story?id=979905
But how can that be?
A second team should have gotten to Luton to pick up the bombs?? Why not give them the day before?
Btw the police took the car on July 12. That means the plan was the bombs should stay for more than five days in the car waiting for the second team?

31. Till when was the car rented?

32. Why is it on July 27 Tanweer and not Lindsay anymore who rented the car? http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/LondonBlasts/story?id=979905
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1710339,00.html

33. And why is the car at first said to have been a “red Fiat”
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/london-bomber-slipped-the-net-twice-before/2005/07/17/1121538868658.html
and on July 27 it’s a “red Nissan”?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1710339,00.html

34. What’s the name on the receipt and the given car type?

35. Explosives were also found in a “a car parked at Luton Central railway station.” http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4677601.stm
Why would the four alleged bombers carry the explosives in the car ?

36. Given the fact that bombs and explosives (and traces of explosives in the bathtub of el Nashar in Leeds http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/london-bomber-slipped-the-net-twice-before/2005/07/17/1121538868658.html) have been found: It shouldn’t be difficult to determine the compounds of a bomb. Shouldn’t this help determing the compounds of the bombs actually used in the blasts? Is it the same material?

Summary:
Here for the first time we do have huge evidence. Yet, it is again striking that the story what actually was found at Luton Station changes again and again. And without implying anything it has to be pointed out that this evidence can’t compensate the strange absence of other evidences (as images and eyewitnesses of the presence in London of the alleged bombers) and it could have been planted.


Timing devices:
Important aspect as well: How was the bomb detonated? With a cell phone like in Madrid, with a trigger or with a timing device. How did the alleged bombers manage the simultaneity of the attack?
Again so far there is big confusion in Scotland Yard.

38. The following day after 7/7 the story was broken that timing devices had been found. http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/investigators-find-timer-device/2005/07/08/1120704541033.htmlrl?oneclick=true
And one of the sources for this information is nobody else but Vincent Cannistraro, the former head of the CIA's counter-terrorism centre
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1523819,00.html
But then everywhere it is reported that no timing device has been found.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10335891
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/terrorism/s_351871.html
Has timing device been found or has there not?

39. Why the conflicting reporting from normally very well-informed sources?

Summary:
Again striking is the many conflicting reports.


The alleged bombers:
40. There are contradictory reports about Germaine Lindsay’s age; Normally he’s believed to have been 19. Sometimes 29. Why is there the same problem as with his first name? (There are about six different versions in the media of his first name)
It has been reported: ““Yesterday, it was claimed that Lindsay was tracked by FBI agents when he visited relatives in America.
British officials had asked the US to keep tabs on him while he stayed with family in Cleveland in 1994 and 2000.
At that time, his mother Mary reportedly lived in the city and has since remarried.
During the 2000 visit, the FBI put him under close surveillance.
He entered the US despite being on a terrorist watch list, but on his return British intelligence allegedly lost track of him.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15742957%26method=full%26siteid=94762%26headline=exclusive%2d%2d58%2d%2dprize%2dfighter-name_page.html
But then Lindsay would have been surveilled at the age of 8! Then the story changes:
A mix-up is understood to be behind the claims by US intelligence that Germaine Lindsay, 19, the bomber who carried out the King's Cross attack, was on a British watch list. This was because the "fourth" bomber was wrongly identified in the United States as Lindsay Jermaine - someone with a similar name to a terrorist suspect...
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article300347.ece
How can this mix up happen between first and family name? Given the fact that most likely the age of the suspects doesn’t correspond.

41. How is the confusion surrounding Hussain’s travel to Pakistan to be explained?
“Evidence showing that all three of the London bombers of Pakistani descent visited Pakistan last year has been thrown into doubt.
A photograph of a passport purporting to show bomber Hasib Hussain was in fact that of a 16-year-old British boy with the same name.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4704427.stm
How difficult is it to realize the differences in their age and in their photos ?

42. The alleged bomber Mohammad Sidique Khan reportedly spend more than ten weeks last year (November 19 till February 8 ) in Pakistan. http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1531453,00.html
This long vacation is a bit surprising given the fact that he was working as a primary school teaching assistant. Do the documents of his school support the claim of Pakistan’s government that he did stay for such a long period?

43. Is it correct that bomb suspects of 7/7 had been arrested in 2004 as French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy told the press? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4680155.stm


Were the alleged bombers aware of their death mission?
44. Several reasons indicate that this might not have been the case:
The “Mirror” asks: “Why did they buy return train tickets to Luton? Why did they buy pay & display tickets for cars? Why were there no usual shouts of 'Allah Akhbar'? Why were bombs in bags and not on their bodies?”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15742951%26method=full%26siteid=94762%26headline=was%2dit%2dsuicide%2d%2d-name_page.html
What is the conclusion of the investigation on this?

45. If they weren’t aware that they are going to die: Who is the one that is responsible for their ignorance and the success of the operation?


The identification of the alleged bombers:
The positive identification of the alleged bombers is extremely important as it is the essential proof that at least they had been present at the moment and the place of the blast.
46. The alleged bomber Tanweer was identified by “strong forensic evidence”.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4693001.stm
How is it possible that Tanweer was already identified on July 12 (the very same day the trail lead to Leeds) while on Jul 11 only one victim had been identified of all four blasts? (on July 12 it is all in all 4). What are theses strong forensic evidences?

47. Germaine Lindsay had not been identified so far. He’s officially name alleged bomber only because his rented car at Luton contained nine bombs. Is there any other single proof against Lindsay?

48. Khan and Hussain have been only identified so far by their Ids that had been found at the site of explosion. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4689739.stm#
When are all four alleged bombers positively identified ?


The mastermind:
49. How could it have happened that “Mustafa Setmarian Nasar, a Syrian who was the
alleged mastermind behind last year's Madrid train bombings, has emerged as a key suspect in the London attack”? http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/49640.htm
He was imprisoned after 911. (New York Times, 14/11/01)

50. What are the odds that Nasar had almost the same name as the bombmaker el-Nashar?


The timeline of the bombing:
It is fairly obvious that to know the exact time is very crucial in a crime case.

51. At first it was reported that the first blast happened at 8:51, the second at 8:56 and the third at 9:17. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659331.stm
Later this timeline was changed and it was said that the first three blasts happened within 50 seconds. The change was based on “After examining computer data, electrical equipment and eyewitness statements” http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/09/AR2005070901248.html
Why did it take 2 ½ days to realize that the timeline was completely wrong ?

52. The given explanation for the wrong timeline was: “They attributed the discrepancy to the fact that no one phoned in the explosion at the Edgware Road station as a bomb until 9:17 a.m. -- some 25 minutes after it actually occurred.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/09/AR2005070901248.html
Is it possible that a London tube station nor the tube itself has any possibility to do an emergency call if there is a power failure?
Is there no station master who would have realized the incident?
Is there no automatic tracking of the tubes to avoid collisions? Shouldn’t the controller haven’t notice at once the three incidents happening at the same time?
How come then that other trains on the same line didn’t collide with the bombed tubes? Shouldn’t even passenger in unharmed tubes have noticed the time of the event?
How can one NOT know immediately the time the incident occurred?

53. Taken for granted that in fact there was no possibility to inform anybody in the outside world then why was apparently the informing of the outside world possible immediately in the first blast, five minutes later for the second and 26 minutes for the third? Why the big discrepancies in this three cases?


The first reports on 7/7:
54. The first reports were: “0924 British Transport Police say the incident was possibly caused by a collision between two trains, a power cut or a power cable exploding. Police report "walking wounded".”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659331.stm
As the police knows of “walking wounded” why don’t they know that none of the three given causes is correct?

55. Why did early reports state: “1025 Transport union officials say they have reports of explosions on three buses, PA says.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659331.stm

56. Why did the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Ian Blair speak of “six events”?:
“1118 London's Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair tells the BBC he knows of "about six explosions", one on a bus and the others related to Underground stations. He says he believes the six affected areas are Edgware Road, King's Cross, Liverpool Street, Russell Square, Aldgate East and Moorgate, but says it is "still a confusing situation".”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659331.stm

57. There was talk of two unexploded bombs on 7/7. "...Vincent Cannistraro, the former head of the CIA's counter-terrorism centre, told The Guardian that "two unexploded bombs" were recovered as well as "mechanical timing devices"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1523819,00.html
But who could have planted the two other bombs?


Incidents occurring on the London Underground BEFORE the blasts:
58. Is the following list correct?
According to 'Transport for London', on 7 July 2005, the day of the London terror attacks:
- the Bakerloo Line was "suspended between Paddington and Elephant and Castle in both directions from 08:07 due to a defective train in Piccadilly Circus"
- the Northern line was "suspended between Morden and Stockwell from 06:29 due to a defective train at Balham"
- the Piccadilly Line was "suspended between King's Cross St Pancras and Arnos Grove from 07:57 to 08:28 due to a defective train at Caledonian Road"..." But there are also accounts of fire”
What were the reasons for theses incidents and is there any connection to the blasts at 8:51?


Bus no. 30:
59. Bus driver George Paradakis said: “MY bus had been diverted because there were thousands of people coming out of the tube. There were many people who were trying to get on the bus at once.” (Sunday Herald, 7/10/05).
Who gave the official order?

60. Why was it the only bus in whole London? Other buses certainly should have been effected by the masses of people leaving the tubes as well!

61. Leaving aside the odds that an experienced busdriver gets lost in the centre of London: Why would George Paradakis stop to ask the name of the street and his way? Why doesn’t he ask CentreCom or a controller per radio? Keep in mind that the bus is tracked by an automatic transponder.


The busdriver George Paradakis:
62. According to George Paradakis he helped wounded people after the blast happened at 9:47. Then he walks west for seven miles and “and sought help only once he reached the Central Middlesex Hospital in Acton, West London, at about 10.50am.” http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1687566,00.html
How could he have managed this in this short time?

63. Why did the police not interview him after the blast?

64. Is it true that busdriver George Paradakis was “taken into hiding by police”?
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100019_12/07/2005_58512
If so: Why?


The van next to the bus:
65. When Bus 30 exploded a van from a firm called “Kingstar” was next to it. From images and media accounts it is clear that the car was next to the bus at the very moment of the explosion (Daily Mail, 7/11/05). Given the fact that “Kingstar” works in “controlled demolition” and has no office next to Travistock (it’s 11.9 miles away) the question is: Why was the van there?


A shooting on 7/7?
66. A Reuter’s journalist believed to have witnessed that police shot somebody on 7/7. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10334992
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050707.wcanar0707/BNStory
Is this story correct?
If it isn’t what might he have witnessed?


Bombing drill on 7/7:
67. On 7/7 it is undisputed that Vizor Consultants held a bombing drill in London Underground. Peter Power, Managing Director of Vizor Consultants revealed himself on 7/7 on BBC. The following quote is from a later interview:
“POWER: At half past nine this morning (7/7/05) we were actually running an exercise for a company of over a thousand people in London based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning, so I still have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up right now.
HOST: To get this quite straight, you were running an exercise to see how you would cope with this and it happened while you were running the exercise?
POWER: Precisely, and it was about half past nine this morning, we planned this for a company and for obvious reasons I don't want to reveal their name but they're listening and they'll know it. And we had a room full of crisis managers for the first time they'd met and so within five minutes we made a pretty rapid decision that this is the real one and so we went through the correct drills of activating crisis management procedures to jump from slow time to quick time thinking and so on. »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/mainframe.shtml?http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/fivelive_aod.shtml?fivelive/drive_thu
See also: http://www.cbc.ca/MRL/clips/rm-lo/charles_disasters050711.rm
What are the odds of this coincidence? Was the possibility of inside information that might have gotten into the hands of the alleged bombers investigated?
What is the result?

68. What’s the name of the company for which the exercise was conducted?

69. Was there any reason that the same day a terror drill of New York Underground was taking place or is this pure coincidence?

70. Why did Vizor Consultants do the terror exercise when the exercise “Atlantic Blue” held in April 2005 had basically the very same scenario?
“A massive anti-terror exercise carried out last April to find out how safe London's transport systems were from attack raised concern over the vulnerability of passengers, The Observer can reveal.
Washington sources have revealed that the biggest transatlantic counter-terrorism exercise since 9/11 - which included 'bombs' being placed on buses and explosives left on the London underground - raised fears over the vulnerability of 'soft targets' in the capital. »
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1525247,00.html

71. The Guardian reported: “Washington sources have revealed that the biggest transatlantic counter-terrorism exercise since 9/11 - which included 'bombs' being placed on buses and explosives left on the London underground - raised fears over the vulnerability of 'soft targets' in the capital.
The anti-terror drill, codenamed Exercise Atlantic Blue, involved 10,000 personnel in the UK and 2,500 in the UK. It was billed as the biggest test of the anti-terror defences of both the UK and the US and was designed to improve security. The exercise featured simulated explosive, biological and chemical attacks and, in the case of London, concentrated on testing security weaknesses in the transport system.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1525398,00.html
What have been the improvements after “Atlantic Blue”?

72. Moreover it should be noted that “Atlantic Blue” “coincided with a major international summit.” http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=756822005 Which has strange parallels to 7/7 with the G8 summit just taking place.


Giuliani and Netanyahu:
73. Coincidentally Former Mayor of New York, Rudolph Giuliani was on 7/6 in Yorkshire, where the police did its first investigations, then he was in London on 7/7:
« Former Mayor of New York, Rudolph Giuliani, was only yards away from the first explosion”
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1525446,00.html
What was the reason for Giuliani’s stay in London on 7/7 ? (911 research Greg Nixon phoned Giuliani’s press secretary but only received the answer: “business”).
Did he in any way participate in Vizor’s terror drill?

74. Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stayed on 7/7 in the same hotel as Giuliani. There were conflicting reports if Netanyahu was warned before the attacks or not. The “Jerusalem Post” writes:
“There were reports on Israel Radio that Scotland Yard had received early warnings of an imminent terrorist attack, and had shared details of these warnings with the Israeli Embassy in London.
However, staff at the Israeli Embassy have flatly denied the claim.”
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1120702711004
Did Scotland Yard receive early warnings?
Was Netanyahu warned?
If yes, when was this the case?


The financial marked before 7/7:
75. The English Pound lost about 6% against the US-Dollar the days before 7/7. Is there the possibility of insider trading? If yes, was it investigated and what was the result?

76. Two days before the London subway bombings, Fed-Master Alan Greenspan flushed nearly $40 billion in liquidity into financial markets. This was a very surprising and so far unexplained step. Was there any connection between his decision and 7/7?


Last but not least:
77. Why does Premier Tony Blair rule out a bomb inquiry? http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,15889534%255E1702,00.html

Is not the security of British people, the need to know what could have been done better next time to prevent the bomb explosions, enough to prove the necessity of an
investigation?


Credits:
Special Thanks to Team 8+ and members of the Team8+ Forum!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
spooked911 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 04:53 PM
Response to Original message
1. Wow! Great work!
:toast: :toast:
:toast:
:toast:
:toast:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
tofubo Donating Member (229 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jul-31-05 12:24 PM
Response to Reply #1
27. 2 things
Edited on Sun Jul-31-05 12:25 PM by tofubo
guiliani in new york on 9/11
guiliani in london on 7/7

Robert Kiley (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Kiley) the Chief Transport Officer for London Transport was the executive assistant to the cia director (the only cia director convicted of lying to congress: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_M._Helms) and worked under guiliani while transporation supervisor there, was the Chairman and CEO of the New York City Metropolitan Transportation Authority (MTA), Chairman and CEO of the New York City Metropolitan Transportation Authority, and as President and CEO of the New York City Partnership (partners include: Accenture, Amerada Hess Corporation, The Blackstone Group, Bloomberg L.P., NBC Universal, Boston Properties, Citigroup Inc., Siemens Corporation, The Goldman Sachs Group, Inc., The Hearst Corporation, J.P. Morgan Chase & Co., Lehman Brothers, among others; corporate partners include ABC, Altria Group, Booz Allen Hamilton, Clear Channel, & Wal-Mart, among others; associate partners include: Brown Brothers Harriman & Co., The Business Council of New York State, Fidelity Investments Rockefeller & Co., Hill International, & Inc. Time Warner Cable, among others http://www.nycp.org/ourpartners.asp)

remember, it's the friends you keep that reflect who you are
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
leveymg Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 05:11 PM
Response to Original message
2. Re: 43. Is it correct that bomb suspects of 7/7 had been arrested in '04?
Yes, more than one related suspect has been in U.S. custody, and was inexplicably released, or had been known to US intelligence to be providing explosives to al-Qaeda in the UK and running terrorist training camps, but was allowed to run around the world doing this for many months.

Any follow-up on the big flap in the UK on 7/15 over the US "outing" of Noor Khan? There's been some American reporting about apparent US-run double-agents involved with the 7/7 bombings. Please see, below. Anything new, along similar lines, that you've seen over there? My DU post yesterday on this below:

US-UK relations are being wrecked because London bombers are tied to US
Edited on Thu Jul-28-05 09:41 AM by leveymg

intelligence. Last year, DHS interfered with British and Pakistani counter-terrorism operations, outing an important informant. Not only was this apparently timed to advance Bush Administration partisan political interests, U.S. intelligence also failed to warn UK about details of the tube bomb plot.

Furthermore, there were at least two U.S. double-agents involved in planning the Tube bombing operation and providing explosives to al-Qaeda cells in London.

You need to read three articles:


1) "Tick, Tick Boom" (DHS Failed to Warn UK About Tube Bomb Plot)
http://www.radaronline.com/web-only/politics/2005/07/ti ...


In the wake of 7/7, the Brits are livid over their government's intelligence failures. Just wait until they hear about ours.

by John Aravosis

SNIP

The British public's ire over the bombings only increased after it was discovered that police had one of the suspects in custody months ago, but released him after determining he posed no threat. No doubt the Brits will be even more pissed once they realize the Bush administration twice botched efforts that could have helped prevent the attack. The first screw up was back in 2002. According to the Seattle Times, the US had in its custody at that time Haroon Aswat, a man federal prosecutors believe helped set up a terrorist training camp in Bly, Oregon in late 1999. For reasons no one can quite figure out, John Ashcroft's Justice Department blocked efforts by its own Seattle-based prosecutors to seek a grand-jury indictment of Aswat. Why is that relevant? Aswat has now been tied to the London bombings (the Brits think he was in cell phone contact with at least two of the bombers in the days preceding the attack).

The second screw up is even more astounding.

Last summer, just after the Democratic convention, then-Secretary of Homeland Security Tom Ridge issued another of his many Code Orange terror alerts. The secretary-who-cried-terrorist was facing increasing criticism for politicizing the terror warnings in the months before the presidential election, so this time he did something different. Secretary Ridge gave the public details, and lots of `em. "Reports indicate that Al Qaeda is targeting several specific buildings," Ridge said at an August 1, 2004 press conference, "including the International Monetary Fund and World Bank in the District of Columbia; Prudential Financial in Northern New Jersey; and Citigroup buildings and the New York Stock Exchange in New York." Those details were enough for the New York Times, in less than twenty-four hours, to uncover and break the rest of the story. The Times reported on August 2 that US officials had announced the terror alert after receiving hard evidence that Al Qaeda was targeting New York and DC financial centers. The evidence came from the laptop computer of Muhammad Naeem Noor Khan, the Times said, an Al Qaeda operative arrested in Pakistan several weeks prior who was now working as a US mole inside Al Qaeda. That's when all hell broke loose.

While it remains unclear who spilled Khan's name--the Americans blame the Pakistanis, and vice versa--the Times story created a panic in English and Pakistani law enforcement circles. Khan's Al Qaeda buddies in both countries, upon learning that their friend was a double agent, quickly went into hiding. Both British and Pakistani officials were "furious" with the Americans for helping to unmask their spy, according to the New York Daily News, and the Brits had to launch a series of high-speed chases to catch Khan's fleeing cabal. A senior Pakistani official told the Associated Press "this intelligence leak jeopardized our plan and some Al Qaeda suspects ran away."

Now back to 7/7.

There was an important piece of information not revealed last August by either Tom Ridge or the Times. As ABC News reported after the London bombing, Khan's laptop not only contained information about US financial centers, but also evidence that Al Qaeda was planning to target the London Tube. ABC, of course, forgot the clincher: How Bush's leaky goon squad sabotaged a multinational operation to thwart what would ultimately become the successful London bombings of July 7, 2005.

SNIP

2) Effort here to charge London suspect was blocked
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/20023 ...

By Hal Bernton and David Heath

Seattle Times staff reporters

The Justice Department blocked efforts by its prosecutors in Seattle in 2002 to bring criminal charges against Haroon Aswat, according to federal law-enforcement officials who were involved in the case.
British authorities suspect Aswat of taking part in the July 7 London bombings, which killed 56 and prompted an intense worldwide manhunt for him.

But long before he surfaced as a suspect there, federal prosecutors in Seattle wanted to seek a grand-jury indictment for his involvement in a failed attempt to set up a terrorist-training camp in Bly, Ore., in late 1999. In early 2000, Aswat lived for a couple of months in central Seattle at the Dar-us-Salaam mosque.

snip

"It was really frustrating," said a former Justice Department official involved in the case. "Guys like that, you just want to sweep them up off the street."

snip

At the time, however, federal prosecutors chose not to indict Aswat for reasons that are not clear. Asked why Aswat wasn't indicted, a federal official in Seattle replied, "That's a great question."

more
The Seattle Time story, updated version here: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/20023 ...


3) Pakistani American Aiding London Probe
Man in U.S. Custody Has Ties to Al Qaeda

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20 ...

By Dan Eggen
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, July 25, 2005; Page A14

It is safe to assume that most people would not react to the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks in quite the same way as Mohammed Junaid Babar.

SNIP

Thus began the strange jihadist odyssey of Babar, 30, a naturalized U.S. citizen and Yankees fan who said he gave up a $70,000-a-year job as a computer programmer to join al Qaeda operatives in plotting attacks against U.S. soldiers and targets in Britain.

Now in U.S. custody . . . SNIP

The revelation that Babar is linked to the July 7 London attacks, which killed at least 56 including the four suicide bombers, is only the latest connection to emerge between the grandson of Pakistani immigrants and al Qaeda.

In addition to his connection to the London bombers, Babar has admitted in court proceedings to supplying bomb-making materials to a Pakistani cell in the United Kingdom that had plotted to blow up restaurants, pubs and train stations there. (When the cell was broken up in 2004, British authorities discovered more than 1,000 pounds of ammonium nitrate fertilizer, the same material used in the 1995 Oklahoma City bombing.) Furthermore, Babar said in federal court in Manhattan during a plea hearing last summer that he spent much of 2003 and early 2004 in the Waziristan province of Pakistan, supplying money and materials -- including night-vision goggles, sleeping bags and other items -- to "a high-ranking al Qaeda official" for use in the fight against U.S. and Northern Alliance forces across the border in Afghanistan. He also admitted to setting up a jihad training camp in the region, a court transcript shows.

Babar also is believed to have links to Issa al-Hindi, the operative involved in surveillance of financial buildings in the United States before the Sept. 11 attacks.

SNIP

Although his arrest and prosecution last year in U.S. District Court for the Southern District of New York went largely unnoticed, U.S. counterterrorism and law enforcement officials say they have long recognized Babar's importance as a link to major al Qaeda players.


SNIP

U.S. counterterrorism officials said Babar first hit their radar screen in late 2001, after the incendiary comments he made to ITN were broadcast. But it was not until April 2004, after Babar had returned to New York and was put under surveillance by the FBI, that he was arrested. Babar has told authorities that he recognized Khan, one of the London bombers, as a person he met in Pakistan and that he accompanied him to a jihad camp in the area, sources said. Although Babar could face as many as 70 years in prison, he is likely to receive a lesser sentence for cooperating with U.S. authorities, and a sentencing date has not been scheduled, officials said.

*****************

These revelations show how deeply entwined US intelligence operatives have become in the London cells. It also shows that MI-5 and DHS have a long way to go before they learn how to prevent international terrorist attacks. Obviously, allowing double-agents to run around the world isn't the way to do things. If I were a British MP, I would demand answers of Mr. Blair. If I were Mr. Blair, I might recall the Ambassador from Washington.




Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Must_B_Free Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 05:22 PM
Response to Original message
3. Makes me wonder if the Brazilian electrician was a "loose end"
now we find out he didn't have a padded jacket as was reported and he didn't jump the turnstyle.

Perhaps he was hired to do some wiring for the trains and figured out what his work had been used for.

Sounds like the bombs were installed below the trains when each was stopped in the two hours preceeding the incident.

Did the Brazilian hgave any affiliation with Kingstar?

Was he a contract worker?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
sleipnir Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 05:34 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. I've thought the same thing.
But, then again, I'll just get labeled as a "crazy" here, just for even proposing that he might have been involved.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
cire4 Donating Member (580 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 02:04 AM
Response to Reply #3
8. If Scotland Yard really wanted him dead,
they wouldn't have shot him in broad daylight in front of dozens of witnesses. They would have "suicided" him or offed him in a similarly discreet manner. With all of the resources at their disposal, they certainly could have killed this guy without anyone noticing.

Furthermore, if MI5 and the British government really staged and orchestrated these attacks, they definitely wouldn't need to hire any help with the wiring. After the IRA days, they must have dozens and dozens of experts who are schooled in everything bomb related. IF they wanted this done, they wouldn't have gone out of their organization and hired some offshoot Brazilian immigrant to help them out.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
moodforaday Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
4. Thank you
Nominated.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
bobbieinok Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Jul-29-05 10:35 PM
Response to Original message
6. once again , many more questions than answers
thanks for the post.......this post and the thread are very helpful
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 01:03 AM
Response to Original message
7. For further research
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
janedoe Donating Member (540 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 02:39 AM
Response to Reply #7
9. Cool! Thanks for all your great work. (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:28 PM
Response to Original message
10. 77 unanswered questions concerning 7/7:
77 unanswered questions concerning 7/7 :

This is a list of so far unanswered questions concerning the bombings in London on 7/7.
This list is not a conclusive judgement on the investigation as it is still ongoing but a list that will help measure the quality of the investigation. A real investigation should come up with answers to every single question. Presenting this list is also a way of documenting that the critical public follows the investigation very carefully and has all theses questions it wished to be answered. Contrary to most of the media who have apparently forgotten that asking questions was once the main aspect of investigative journalism.


The CCTV images:
“London is now the undisputed capital of CCTV cameras, with more than any other big city on earth.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/comment/story/0,16141,1530651,00.html
It has 2500 CCTV cameras in the center.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1690391,00.html
Tube and busses do have CCTV cameras as well.
All in all detectives are viewing films from more than 5000 cameras.
(Express, 7/15/05)
“So far, they have collected more than 12,000 CCTV tapes, of which they have viewed around 6,000. They expect to view around 25,000 in total.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1531453,00.html

Therefore the CCTV cameras should be considered as a perfect eyewitness of the 7/7 bombings as all of them happened in public places and all four alleged bombers travelled to their final destination with public transport.


1. Why does the CCTV image from Luton (the only photo showing all four alleged bombers) sometimes have no stamp at all, sometimes a stamp only of the date, sometimes of date and time, sometimes of date, time and number of the camera?


2. As CCTV images do stills every three seconds why wasn’t another image from the same camera at Luton released that allows to see all four persons more clearly? The quality of the image is so bad that one alleged bomber doesn’t even seem to have a face.

3. There was talk of a strange fifth person:
“CCTV pictures show him (alleged bomber Hasib Hussain) at Luton station at 7:20am. With his three fellow killers and possibly a fifth terrorist, he travelled from there to King's Cross, where the suicide mission began. “
http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1398122005
Why weren’t theses CCTV pictures made public so people could help? Who is this fifth person?

4. The media first reported of a CCTV image made in King’s Cross that showed all four. Yet, the only image is from Luton.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1527404,00.html
Why then did the media report of the King’s Cross one? If it exists: Why was this one never made public?

5. Why is there only one close up photo of the alleged bombers Hasib Hussain?

There should be many many more.

6. Why is this the only close up photo of any of the four alleged bombers? Why was not a single other photo from 7/7 released? There should be many many more. Keep in mind that much more photos have been released for the alleged bombers of the second attack on 7/21 although both incidents happened basically in the same public space. Why the huge difference?

7. Why especially was no photo published showing the four alleged bombers entering their last tube and their last bus? This would be a very important proof of their crime. Keep in mind that tube and busses do have CCTV cameras inside. See the photos of alleged bombers from 7/21:


8. Why is no CCTV image released showing the alleged bombers with their backsacks sitting at the place in the tube where the bomb exploded?

9. A “bus had four cameras - one covering people getting on, the second at the exit doors and one on each deck scanning the length of the vehicle.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15717499%26method=full%26siteid=94762%26headline=exclusive%2d%2d58%2d%2dthe%2dhunt-name_page.html
Why did none of the four CCTV cameras in bus no. 30 work on 7/7? http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15717499%26method=full%26siteid=94762%26headline=exclusive%2d%2d58%2d%2dthe%2dhunt-name_page.html
Scotland Yard’s speculation that the bus driver might have forgotten to switch them on is not correct as the cameras are always switched on.

Summary:
Although the CCTV cameras should have provided Scotland Yard with an unparalleled amount of visual evidence the absence of published evidence is striking. If Scotland Yard has more evidence in his hands why don’t they publish them moreover if they would many questions they raised would be answered by theses images.


The journey of the alleged bombers:
10. The CCTV at Luton was made at 7:21.
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/london-bomber-slipped-the-net-twice-before/2005/07/17/1121538868658.html
The four alleged bombers are said to have arrived at 8:30 at King’s Cross. ‘AP, 7/12/05)
Yet, the trip does take much less time then one hour (departure and arrival times are: 7:24-7:59, 7:30-8:03, 7:40-8:15 and 7:48-8:19). So, what did the four do in the mean time?

11. Officially the four alleged bombers arrived at 8:30 at King’s Cross. Their final destination of three of them takes clearly less than 20 minutes. (Russel Station is only one station) What did they do during theses 20 minutes? What do CCTV images show?

12. Scotland Yard is wondering why Hasib Hussain waited for 81 minutes till his bomb exploded. There is speculation that he was supposed to board the Northern Line.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1529899,00.html
Why is Scotland Yard forced to speculate ? Why don’t they simply watch the CCTV images from the Northern Line halt at King’s Cross? If Hussain tried to board it but couldn’t because the line was temporarily interrupted one should see Hussain arriving at the halt and disappointedly returning. Why the need to speculate?

Summary:
CCTV images should basically tell us everything the four alleged bombers made on 7/7 in public spaces yet Scotland Yard is far from knowing a lot as it seems. Besides a vague photo from Luton at 7:21 we have nothing at hands.


Eyewitnesses:
Not only the CCTV cameras should be of great help for the investigation but eyewitnesses as well. Especially given the fact that the crime happened in public space, that many eyewitnesses have survived the blasts and that the four bombers should have been seen in Luton, in the Thameslink, waiting at the tube station etc.

13. An open question is still for Scotland Yard on which bus station Hasib Hussain got on bus no. 30. http://news.scotsman.com/uk.cfm?id=1398122005
Why does no eyewitness remembers on which station Hussain got on the bus?

14. Very crucial is the question: Why is there in general not a single eyewitness so far who actually saw one of the four alleged bombers?

15. There are two special cases of eyewitnesses that needs further specification: Richard Jones who claims to have seen Hasib Hussain in bus no. 30 and Bruce Lait who was in the tube that exploded at Liverpool Street.
Why is Richard Jones all over the news although it is fairly easy to prove that he can’t have seen Hussain on bus no.30?
A proof here:
http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?9.366.50 (Scroll to “Topwitness Richard Jones) and
http://www.team8plus.org/forum_viewtopic.php?9.366.60 (Scroll to “Clothes”)
The simplest refusal is the fact that Jones claimed to have been downstairs: http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15721018&method=full&siteid=86024&headline=7-7-london-the-witness--i-thought-bomber-on-my-bus-was-only-playing-with-ipod--name_page.html
While the explosion happened upstairs and took of the roof of the bus.

16. Of course it is possible that Richard Jones simply mistook his neighbour for Hussain. But it is noteworthy that Jones’ accounts also has striking contradictions with the account of the bus driver George Paradakis:
Richard Jones describes in his accounts that because of the alleged bomber who didn’t stop fidgeting in his backsack he was annoyed and wanted to get off. The driver agreed to stop the bus although there was no bus stop and “About half a dozen got out the back door just before us and the same number, including me, left by the front.” http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15721018&method=full&siteid=86024&headline=7-7-london-the-witness--i-thought-bomber-on-my-bus-was-only-playing-with-ipod--name_page.html
“As he and another dozen frustrated passengers who had also abandoned the bus began to walk away, it was ripped apart by the bomb”
http://www.sundaymail.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15721018&method=full&siteid=86024&headline=7-7-london-the-witness--i-thought-bomber-on-my-bus-was-only-playing-with-ipod--name_page.html
Richard Jones specifies: “The bus moved about 15 yards and exploded behind me.”
http://www6.lexisnexis.com/publisher/EndUser?Action=UserDisplayFullDocument&orgId=574&topicId=100007216&docId=l:295395745&start=5
But bus driver George Paradakis tells a very different story.
“Although the bus usually travels from Hackney Wick to Marble Arch, it had been re-routed by police to avoid areas cordoned off near Underground stations. Such was the demand for buses that Psarabakis was unable to pick up all the passengers looking to board the number 30. Confused by the re-routing, the driver pulled up at the junction of Upper Woburn Place and Tavistock Place to ask two traffic wardens' advice on the best route to Marble Arch. As the wardens approached the bus, an explosion ripped through the upper deck of Psarabakis's vehicle, throwing the roof onto the street.”
(Sunday Tribune, 7/10/05)
The parking attendant warden Ade Soji agrees with the bus driver:
“Ade Soji, 35, a parking attendant from Dagenham, east London, said he had given directions to the driver of the diverted bus just before it exploded. "The bus stopped and the driver asked me the name of the street," Mr Soji said. "I told him Tavistock Square and he called me over. Just as I was about to go, I heard the bus explode.
"In another second I would have been dead. I had to run for my life. I looked back and saw the roof flying over."
http://www.portal.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2005/07/08/nbomb208.xml
(Sunday Herald, 7/10/05)
While Jones states that the bus continued its way and Paradakis states he stopped (apparently not to let off any passengers but to ask for the best way – although how likely is it that an experience bus driver gets lost?) and didn’t have a chance to continue his way because of the blast.
Moreover Jones clearly mentions that he and a dozen passengers got off then why does Paradakis mention that he couldn’t allow waiting people to get on his bus? There should be some space for a dozen passengers, shouldn’t it.
Was Richard Jones really on bus no. 30?
Where are accounts of any of the dozens passengers that experienced exactly the same miraculous survival as Richard Jones?

17. Bruce Lait had been on the tube on Liverpool Street. His recollection of who is in the carriage is very precise: “He recalled that the carriage had about 20-25 people in it, from all walks of life, and aged from their teens to over 60.
"I remember an Asian guy, there was a white guy with tracksuit trousers and a baseball cap, and there were two old ladies sitting opposite me," he said.”
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/region_wide/2005/07/11/83e33146-09af-4421-b2f4-1779a86926f9.lpf
He is very close to where the bomb went off: “"Out of that whole carriage, I think Crystal and I were the only ones who were not seriously injured, and I think we were nearest the bomb.”
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/region_wide/2005/07/11/83e33146-09af-4421-b2f4-1779a86926f9.lpf
"The policeman said 'mind that hole, that's where the bomb was'. The metal was pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train. They seem to think the bomb was left in a bag, but I don't remember anybody being where the bomb was, or any bag," he said.”
http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/news/region_wide/2005/07/11/83e33146-09af-4421-b2f4-1779a86926f9.lpf
Why did he see nobody?

18. How come “metal was pushed upwards as if the bomb was underneath the train.”?

19. Was the bomb underneath the train?

Summary:
Not only the absence of CCTV evidences but also of any eyewitness who actually saw the alleged bombers.
To put it in a nutshell: The strange thing is that the four alleged bombers somehow managed to be neither witnessed by other people nor by any CCTV camera.


Analysing the crash sites :
20. Given the suspicion that a bomb was underneath the carriage (based on Bruce Lait’s account): Is there any official description of the damage done to this carriage?

21. Are there furthermore official documentations about the damage done to the two other tubes and bus no. 30?

22. Is there any conclusion where the bombs were placed?


Analysing the bombs:
One central question in any case of a explosion is to determine what kind of bomb was used.

23. Why did the statement which explosives the alleged bombers used changes several times: at first “high-grade military explosives” http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1690391,00.html
“military TNT originating from former Soviet satellite countries”
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/bfbf76d8-f33a-11d9-843f-00000e2511c8.html
then “TATP, or triacetone triperoxide, a compound that can be made from easily purchased chemicals”
http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/la-fg-britbombs16jul16,1,7185243,full.story?coll=la-headlines-world&ctrack=1&cset=true
then even “innocent designer perfumes and aftershaves (were used) as a deadly mix for the London gang's home-made devices”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15747958&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=7-7--war-on-britain--scent-from-hell----name_page.html
Finally after two weeks it is officially stated that Scotland Yard has no clue and that it is unclear when they will figure out what kind of explosives had been used.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1532191,00.html
How is this ever changing story explainable ? Why is it so difficult to examine the explosives? There are even portable machines available that are supposed to analyse explosives right on the spot.
http://securitysa.com/news.asp?pklNewsID=12022&pklIssueID=351&pklCategoryID=111

24. Was alcohol used in the explosives as the story of Lindsay buying perfumes for £700 suggests? (The explanation given was that he used the alcohol of the perfumes).
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15747958&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=7-7--war-on-britain--scent-from-hell----name_page.html
If yes, why wasn’t this found out before? Why was the story of Lindsay buying perfumes for 700 £ needed to realize the use of alcohol?
If not, what is the sense of Lindsay’s excessive shooping?

25. Based on the statement that Scotland Yard still doesn’t know the compounds of the bomb used this comparison between the bombs from 7/7 and 7/21 appears surprising:
“THE same prolific bombmaker built the deadly devices used by the two suicide squads that attacked London this month, security sources have told The Times.
A number of bombs and components, some packed with nails to cause death and maximum injury, were recovered from a car parked by the July 7 bombers at Luton station.
Senior sources told The Times that the devices recovered at Luton are “strikingly similar in their configuration and contents” to the unexploded bomb found at Warren Street Tube station on July 21.”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1711357,00.html
On the first glance this statement creates a sort of missing link between the two attacks, yet: How can they know that if they still have no clue what kind of bombs were used on 7/7 ?

Summary:
Again what is striking is the absence of any conclusive statement.


Bombs and explosives left in Luton:
26. “Investigators reportedly found another nine bombs in Lindsay's red Fiat, which had been parked at Luton railway station.”
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/london-bomber-slipped-the-net-twice-before/2005/07/17/1121538868658.html
Why would an alleged bomber that normally would aim for the biggest possible destruction leave nine bombs behind instead of using them or distributing them to his fellow bombers in order to create an even bigger destruction?

27. Why are on July 27 12 bombs in the rented car reported and not 9 anymore?
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/LondonBlasts/story?id=979905

28. Why does other newspaper even speak of 16 bombs?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1710339,00.html

29. The presented bombs (on photos as well) are nail bombs.

Why did the alleged bombers apparently leave nail bombs in the car while taking simple bombs for the attacks?

30. Why should the alleged bombers leave bombs in general (they could perfectly have used as well in the attacks) in the cars at Luton?
The following explanation hardly makes sense:
"I believe that the explosives left in that car were left there for a second strike," said Bob Ayers, a London-based terrorism consultant with expertise in demolition. "But the metropolitan police responded so quickly, they were able to get to the car and take control of the car before the second team could get the explosives and leave.""
http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/LondonBlasts/story?id=979905
But how can that be?
A second team should have gotten to Luton to pick up the bombs?? Why not give them the day before?
Btw the police took the car on July 12. That means the plan was the bombs should stay for more than five days in the car waiting for the second team?

31. Till when was the car rented?

32. Why is it on July 27 Tanweer and not Lindsay anymore who rented the car? http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/LondonBlasts/story?id=979905
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1710339,00.html

33. And why is the car at first said to have been a “red Fiat”
http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/london-bomber-slipped-the-net-twice-before/2005/07/17/1121538868658.html
and on July 27 it’s a “red Nissan”?
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1710339,00.html

34. What’s the name on the receipt and the given car type?

35. Explosives were also found in a “a car parked at Luton Central railway station.” http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4677601.stm
Why would the four alleged bombers carry the explosives in the car ?

36. Given the fact that bombs and explosives (and traces of explosives in the bathtub of el Nashar in Leeds http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/london-bomber-slipped-the-net-twice-before/2005/07/17/1121538868658.html) have been found: It shouldn’t be difficult to determine the compounds of a bomb. Shouldn’t this help determing the compounds of the bombs actually used in the blasts? Is it the same material?

Summary:
Here for the first time we do have huge evidence. Yet, it is again striking that the story what actually was found at Luton Station changes again and again. And without implying anything it has to be pointed out that this evidence can’t compensate the strange absence of other evidences (as images and eyewitnesses of the presence in London of the alleged bombers) and it could have been planted.


Timing devices:
Important aspect as well: How was the bomb detonated? With a cell phone like in Madrid, with a trigger or with a timing device. How did the alleged bombers manage the simultaneity of the attack?
Again so far there is big confusion in Scotland Yard.

38. The following day after 7/7 the story was broken that timing devices had been found. http://www.smh.com.au/news/world/investigators-find-timer-device/2005/07/08/1120704541033.htmlrl?oneclick=true
And one of the sources for this information is nobody else but Vincent Cannistraro, the former head of the CIA's counter-terrorism centre
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1523819,00.html
But then everywhere it is reported that no timing device has been found.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10335891
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/tribune-review/terrorism/s_351871.html
Has timing device been found or has there not?

39. Why the conflicting reporting from normally very well-informed sources?

Summary:
Again striking is the many conflicting reports.


The alleged bombers:
40. There are contradictory reports about Germaine Lindsay’s age; Normally he’s believed to have been 19. Sometimes 29. Why is there the same problem as with his first name? (There are about six different versions in the media of his first name)
It has been reported: ““Yesterday, it was claimed that Lindsay was tracked by FBI agents when he visited relatives in America.
British officials had asked the US to keep tabs on him while he stayed with family in Cleveland in 1994 and 2000.
At that time, his mother Mary reportedly lived in the city and has since remarried.
During the 2000 visit, the FBI put him under close surveillance.
He entered the US despite being on a terrorist watch list, but on his return British intelligence allegedly lost track of him.”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15742957%26method=full%26siteid=94762%26headline=exclusive%2d%2d58%2d%2dprize%2dfighter-name_page.html
But then Lindsay would have been surveilled at the age of 8! Then the story changes:
A mix-up is understood to be behind the claims by US intelligence that Germaine Lindsay, 19, the bomber who carried out the King's Cross attack, was on a British watch list. This was because the "fourth" bomber was wrongly identified in the United States as Lindsay Jermaine - someone with a similar name to a terrorist suspect...
http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/crime/article300347.ece
How can this mix up happen between first and family name? Given the fact that most likely the age of the suspects doesn’t correspond.

41. How is the confusion surrounding Hussain’s travel to Pakistan to be explained?
“Evidence showing that all three of the London bombers of Pakistani descent visited Pakistan last year has been thrown into doubt.
A photograph of a passport purporting to show bomber Hasib Hussain was in fact that of a 16-year-old British boy with the same name.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/4704427.stm
How difficult is it to realize the differences in their age and in their photos ?

42. The alleged bomber Mohammad Sidique Khan reportedly spend more than ten weeks last year (November 19 till February 8 ) in Pakistan. http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1531453,00.html
This long vacation is a bit surprising given the fact that he was working as a primary school teaching assistant. Do the documents of his school support the claim of Pakistan’s government that he did stay for such a long period?

43. Is it correct that bomb suspects of 7/7 had been arrested in 2004 as French Interior Minister Nicolas Sarkozy told the press? http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4680155.stm


Were the alleged bombers aware of their death mission?
44. Several reasons indicate that this might not have been the case:
The “Mirror” asks: “Why did they buy return train tickets to Luton? Why did they buy pay & display tickets for cars? Why were there no usual shouts of 'Allah Akhbar'? Why were bombs in bags and not on their bodies?”
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=15742951%26method=full%26siteid=94762%26headline=was%2dit%2dsuicide%2d%2d-name_page.html
What is the conclusion of the investigation on this?

45. If they weren’t aware that they are going to die: Who is the one that is responsible for their ignorance and the success of the operation?


The identification of the alleged bombers:
The positive identification of the alleged bombers is extremely important as it is the essential proof that at least they had been present at the moment and the place of the blast.
46. The alleged bomber Tanweer was identified by “strong forensic evidence”.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/4693001.stm
How is it possible that Tanweer was already identified on July 12 (the very same day the trail lead to Leeds) while on Jul 11 only one victim had been identified of all four blasts? (on July 12 it is all in all 4). What are theses strong forensic evidences?

47. Germaine Lindsay had not been identified so far. He’s officially name alleged bomber only because his rented car at Luton contained nine bombs. Is there any other single proof against Lindsay?

48. Khan and Hussain have been only identified so far by their Ids that had been found at the site of explosion. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4689739.stm#
When are all four alleged bombers positively identified ?


The mastermind:
49. How could it have happened that “Mustafa Setmarian Nasar, a Syrian who was the
alleged mastermind behind last year's Madrid train bombings, has emerged as a key suspect in the London attack”? http://www.nypost.com/news/worldnews/49640.htm
He was imprisoned after 911. (New York Times, 14/11/01)

50. What are the odds that Nasar had almost the same name as the bombmaker el-Nashar?


The timeline of the bombing:
It is fairly obvious that to know the exact time is very crucial in a crime case.

51. At first it was reported that the first blast happened at 8:51, the second at 8:56 and the third at 9:17. http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659331.stm
Later this timeline was changed and it was said that the first three blasts happened within 50 seconds. The change was based on “After examining computer data, electrical equipment and eyewitness statements” http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/09/AR2005070901248.html
Why did it take 2 ½ days to realize that the timeline was completely wrong ?

52. The given explanation for the wrong timeline was: “They attributed the discrepancy to the fact that no one phoned in the explosion at the Edgware Road station as a bomb until 9:17 a.m. -- some 25 minutes after it actually occurred.”
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/09/AR2005070901248.html
Is it possible that a London tube station nor the tube itself has any possibility to do an emergency call if there is a power failure?
Is there no station master who would have realized the incident?
Is there no automatic tracking of the tubes to avoid collisions? Shouldn’t the controller haven’t notice at once the three incidents happening at the same time?
How come then that other trains on the same line didn’t collide with the bombed tubes? Shouldn’t even passenger in unharmed tubes have noticed the time of the event?
How can one NOT know immediately the time the incident occurred?

53. Taken for granted that in fact there was no possibility to inform anybody in the outside world then why was apparently the informing of the outside world possible immediately in the first blast, five minutes later for the second and 26 minutes for the third? Why the big discrepancies in this three cases?


The first reports on 7/7:
54. The first reports were: “0924 British Transport Police say the incident was possibly caused by a collision between two trains, a power cut or a power cable exploding. Police report "walking wounded".”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659331.stm
As the police knows of “walking wounded” why don’t they know that none of the three given causes is correct?

55. Why did early reports state: “1025 Transport union officials say they have reports of explosions on three buses, PA says.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659331.stm

56. Why did the Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police Ian Blair speak of “six events”?:
“1118 London's Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Ian Blair tells the BBC he knows of "about six explosions", one on a bus and the others related to Underground stations. He says he believes the six affected areas are Edgware Road, King's Cross, Liverpool Street, Russell Square, Aldgate East and Moorgate, but says it is "still a confusing situation".”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659331.stm

57. There was talk of two unexploded bombs on 7/7. "...Vincent Cannistraro, the former head of the CIA's counter-terrorism centre, told The Guardian that "two unexploded bombs" were recovered as well as "mechanical timing devices"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,,1523819,00.html
But who could have planted the two other bombs?


Incidents occurring on the London Underground BEFORE the blasts:
58. Is the following list correct?
According to 'Transport for London', on 7 July 2005, the day of the London terror attacks:
- the Bakerloo Line was "suspended between Paddington and Elephant and Castle in both directions from 08:07 due to a defective train in Piccadilly Circus"
- the Northern line was "suspended between Morden and Stockwell from 06:29 due to a defective train at Balham"
- the Piccadilly Line was "suspended between King's Cross St Pancras and Arnos Grove from 07:57 to 08:28 due to a defective train at Caledonian Road"..." But there are also accounts of fire”
What were the reasons for theses incidents and is there any connection to the blasts at 8:51?


Bus no. 30:
59. Bus driver George Paradakis said: “MY bus had been diverted because there were thousands of people coming out of the tube. There were many people who were trying to get on the bus at once.” (Sunday Herald, 7/10/05).
Who gave the official order?

60. Why was it the only bus in whole London? Other buses certainly should have been effected by the masses of people leaving the tubes as well!

61. Leaving aside the odds that an experienced busdriver gets lost in the centre of London: Why would George Paradakis stop to ask the name of the street and his way? Why doesn’t he ask CentreCom or a controller per radio? Keep in mind that the bus is tracked by an automatic transponder.


The busdriver George Paradakis:
62. According to George Paradakis he helped wounded people after the blast happened at 9:47. Then he walks west for seven miles and “and sought help only once he reached the Central Middlesex Hospital in Acton, West London, at about 10.50am.” http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,22989-1687566,00.html
How could he have managed this in this short time?

63. Why did the police not interview him after the blast?

64. Is it true that busdriver George Paradakis was “taken into hiding by police”?
http://www.ekathimerini.com/4dcgi/_w_articles_politics_100019_12/07/2005_58512
If so: Why?


The van next to the bus:
65. When Bus 30 exploded a van from a firm called “Kingstar” was next to it. From images and media accounts it is clear that the car was next to the bus at the very moment of the explosion (Daily Mail, 7/11/05). Given the fact that “Kingstar” works in “controlled demolition” and has no office next to Travistock (it’s 11.9 miles away) the question is: Why was the van there?


A shooting on 7/7?
66. A Reuter’s journalist believed to have witnessed that police shot somebody on 7/7. http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=2&ObjectID=10334992
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050707.wcanar0707/BNStory
Is this story correct?
If it isn’t what might he have witnessed?


Bombing drill on 7/7:
67. On 7/7 it is undisputed that Vizor Consultants held a bombing drill in London Underground. Peter Power, Managing Director of Vizor Consultants revealed himself on 7/7 on BBC. The following quote is from a later interview:
“POWER: At half past nine this morning (7/7/05) we were actually running an exercise for a company of over a thousand people in London based on simultaneous bombs going off precisely at the railway stations where it happened this morning, so I still have the hairs on the back of my neck standing up right now.
HOST: To get this quite straight, you were running an exercise to see how you would cope with this and it happened while you were running the exercise?
POWER: Precisely, and it was about half past nine this morning, we planned this for a company and for obvious reasons I don't want to reveal their name but they're listening and they'll know it. And we had a room full of crisis managers for the first time they'd met and so within five minutes we made a pretty rapid decision that this is the real one and so we went through the correct drills of activating crisis management procedures to jump from slow time to quick time thinking and so on. »
http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/mainframe.shtml?http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio/aod/fivelive_aod.shtml?fivelive/drive_thu
See also: http://www.cbc.ca/MRL/clips/rm-lo/charles_disasters050711.rm
What are the odds of this coincidence? Was the possibility of inside information that might have gotten into the hands of the alleged bombers investigated?
What is the result?

68. What’s the name of the company for which the exercise was conducted?

69. Was there any reason that the same day a terror drill of New York Underground was taking place or is this pure coincidence?

70. Why did Vizor Consultants do the terror exercise when the exercise “Atlantic Blue” held in April 2005 had basically the very same scenario?
“A massive anti-terror exercise carried out last April to find out how safe London's transport systems were from attack raised concern over the vulnerability of passengers, The Observer can reveal.
Washington sources have revealed that the biggest transatlantic counter-terrorism exercise since 9/11 - which included 'bombs' being placed on buses and explosives left on the London underground - raised fears over the vulnerability of 'soft targets' in the capital. »
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1525247,00.html

71. The Guardian reported: “Washington sources have revealed that the biggest transatlantic counter-terrorism exercise since 9/11 - which included 'bombs' being placed on buses and explosives left on the London underground - raised fears over the vulnerability of 'soft targets' in the capital.
The anti-terror drill, codenamed Exercise Atlantic Blue, involved 10,000 personnel in the UK and 2,500 in the UK. It was billed as the biggest test of the anti-terror defences of both the UK and the US and was designed to improve security. The exercise featured simulated explosive, biological and chemical attacks and, in the case of London, concentrated on testing security weaknesses in the transport system.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/attackonlondon/story/0,16132,1525398,00.html
What have been the improvements after “Atlantic Blue”?

72. Moreover it should be noted that “Atlantic Blue” “coincided with a major international summit.” http://news.scotsman.com/politics.cfm?id=756822005 Which has strange parallels to 7/7 with the G8 summit just taking place.


Giuliani and Netanyahu:
73. Coincidentally Former Mayor of New York, Rudolph Giuliani was on 7/6 in Yorkshire, where the police did its first investigations, then he was in London on 7/7:
« Former Mayor of New York, Rudolph Giuliani, was only yards away from the first explosion”
http://observer.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,6903,1525446,00.html
What was the reason for Giuliani’s stay in London on 7/7 ? (911 research Greg Nixon phoned Giuliani’s press secretary but only received the answer: “business”).
Did he in any way participate in Vizor’s terror drill?

74. Israeli Finance Minister Benjamin Netanyahu stayed on 7/7 in the same hotel as Giuliani. There were conflicting reports if Netanyahu was warned before the attacks or not. The “Jerusalem Post” writes:
“There were reports on Israel Radio that Scotland Yard had received early warnings of an imminent terrorist attack, and had shared details of these warnings with the Israeli Embassy in London.
However, staff at the Israeli Embassy have flatly denied the claim.”
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1120702711004
Did Scotland Yard receive early warnings?
Was Netanyahu warned?
If yes, when was this the case?


The financial marked before 7/7:
75. The English Pound lost about 6% against the US-Dollar the days before 7/7. Is there the possibility of insider trading? If yes, was it investigated and what was the result?

76. Two days before the London subway bombings, Fed-Master Alan Greenspan flushed nearly $40 billion in liquidity into financial markets. This was a very surprising and so far unexplained step. Was there any connection between his decision and 7/7?


Last but not least:
77. Why does Premier Tony Blair rule out a bomb inquiry? http://www.heraldsun.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,5478,15889534%255E1702,00.html

Is not the security of British people, the need to know what could have been done better next time to prevent the bomb explosions, enough to prove the necessity of an
investigation?


Credits:
Special Thanks to Team 8+ and members of the Team8+ Forum!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ikri Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. To reply to a couple of "unanswered questions"
14. Why is there in general not a single eyewitness so far who actually saw one of the four alleged bombers?

I take it that you have never traveled on the Tube. I'm not sure how it is on other underground networks elsewhere in the world, but on the Tube you do not look at your fellow passengers. Prior to the bomb attacks you could ask anyone getting off a Tube train what the person opposite them was wearing and 9 times out of 10 they won't be able to tell you, they won't have paid any attention to them and probably never lifted their head out of their newspaper or book from the time they got on to the tube until they got off again.

23. Why did the statement which explosives the alleged bombers used changes several times

Why was it high explosive to begin with? Perhaps because they (and its a very general "they" since most of the initial reports came from the media speculating on what might have happened) initially believed that due to the damage caused that high explosive was the most likely option. Why has that opinion changed? Well they have spent a couple of weeks investigating the bomb sites.

58. Is the following list correct?
NO
There were (slightly tasteless) jokes made in my workplace that the Transport for London website listed the Tube network as running normally until the afternoon when they changed it to display details of the bombings.

65. The "Kingstar" van.
Kingstar are a demolitions company that specializes in controlled mechanical demolition. Here's their website. You might want to hire them if you want to tear a building apart but they wouldn't blow it up.

67. The bombing drill.

There was an event on the same day that covered contingency planning for a bombing on the Tube system. It was not on the Tube, they were probably in some company's board room discussing what the effects would be.

The very fact that there is a company that specializes in contingency planning for terror events actually exists should show that there's a good chance that they do similar planning drills every week.

77. Why does Blair rule out an inquiry?
He doesn't. He told the Tories where to shove the immediate inquiry they were asking for since the investigation was still ongoing and the Tories were simply trying to score cheap political points. There will be an inquiry after the criminal investigation is complete.

Has it ever occurred to anyone that there might not be a conspiracy?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
evermind Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #11
12. On question 58, BBC Radio 5 reported on the day that Piccadilly and
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 07:31 PM by evermind
one other line (Bakerloo?) had services suspended because London Underground staff were refusing to man the trains on grounds of safety (ie. they were too scared). I posted this as I heard the report, on one of the threads of the day (but I can't find this now, as I don't have the privilege of searching my own posts back then.)

As I predicted in my post, the story didn't get much of an airing (AFAICT) presumably because the image of fearful tube drivers doesn't jibe with the "stoicism and courage" image that just about the whole uk press (understandably) wants to put out (along with the people behind "bomb-us-some-more.com", or whatever that stupid website was called)

(On edit: Oops! The question is talking about stoppages before the blasts. Of that, I know nothing. I'll leave the above, which refers AFAIK to stoppages after the blasts, here anyway to avoid puzzling people unduly.. I saw Piccadilly and Bakerloo mentioned, and I think those were the ones reported by Radio 5 - maybe there's some connection anyhow.)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 03:09 PM
Response to Reply #11
28. Answers
I take it that you have never traveled on the Tube. I'm not sure how it is on other underground networks elsewhere in the world, but on the Tube you do not look at your fellow passengers. Prior to the bomb attacks you could ask anyone getting off a Tube train what the person opposite them was wearing and 9 times out of 10 they won't be able to tell you, they won't have paid any attention to them and probably never lifted their head out of their newspaper or book from the time they got on to the tube until they got off again.

I lived a year in the UK and I was often in London and I know the tube and I know that people don't stare at each other as they do eg in Madrid, Rome or Paris.
My question is not why there are not hundreds of witnesses: I ask why is there NOT A SINGLE witness. And if you look at Bruce Lait's account you can see that he was able to describe many people in the tube.

Why was it high explosive to begin with? Perhaps because they (and its a very general "they" since most of the initial reports came from the media speculating on what might have happened) initially believed that due to the damage caused that high explosive was the most likely option. Why has that opinion changed? Well they have spent a couple of weeks investigating the bomb sites.

If you've checked out my sources you see that this are direct quotes from officials and not media speculating. Second just have a look how often the story changed and that after four weeks they are still unable to tell what was in the bombs? Give me a break!

NO
There were (slightly tasteless) jokes made in my workplace that the Transport for London website listed the Tube network as running normally until the afternoon when they changed it to display details of the bombings.


The Northern Line was defintitely not running. This was the reason given why Hussain took in fact a bus. Many witness accounts on the net show that other lines weren't working neither. This internet sources are no proofs but certainly your refusal is not a proof neither.


There was an event on the same day that covered contingency planning for a bombing on the Tube system. It was not on the Tube, they were probably in some company's board room discussing what the effects would be.
The very fact that there is a company that specializes in contingency planning for terror events actually exists should show that there's a good chance that they do similar planning drills every week.


What are the odds that the terrorists acts were at the same time and at the same place as planned in the drill? This question doesn't depend on the undisputed fact that the drill didn't take place in the tube itself. Did the alleged bombers know and if yes: how?

He doesn't. He told the Tories where to shove the immediate inquiry they were asking for since the investigation was still ongoing and the Tories were simply trying to score cheap political points. There will be an inquiry after the criminal investigation is complete.

I'd be happy if there would be an investigation. The article I present clearly that Blair doesn't intend one. Where is your source for claiming that there would be an inquiry after the criminal investigation is complete?

Has it ever occurred to anyone that there might not be a conspiracy?

Can you please show me just one sentence in my article that shows that I believe in a conspiracy that took place? And please let me know, cause I really would like to know what I should think. I just have the impression it is kind of strange that only asking questions in bashed in best Bush-facon as being a consiracy nut.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Anarcho-Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
13. OK...
"5. Why is there only one close up photo of the alleged bombers Hasib Hussain? There should be many many more."

Really? Why should that be?

"6. Why was not a single other photo from 7/7 released? There should be many many more. Keep in mind that much more photos have been released for the alleged bombers of the second attack on 7/21 although both incidents happened basically in the same public space. Why the huge difference?"

Erm... that should be pretty obvious. Photos were released the 2nd time because the suspects were still at large.

"7. Why especially was no photo published showing the four alleged bombers entering their last tube and their last bus? This would be a very important proof of their crime. Keep in mind that tube and busses do have CCTV cameras inside. "

If they have such evidence it will submitted to the Crown Prosecution Service. They're not under any obligation to release to the media. It's trial by jury not trial by web-bloggers.

"14. Very crucial is the question: Why is there in general not a single eyewitness so far who actually saw one of the four alleged bombers?"

I ride public transport all the time, I can't remember anyone's face. It's considered very rude to stare.

"29. The presented bombs (on photos as well) are nail bombs. Why did the alleged bombers apparently leave nail bombs in the car while taking simple bombs for the attacks?"

I'm sure police will be eager to ask any suspects that very question.

"Summary:
Again striking is the many conflicting reports."

That's the media for you.

"The financial marked before 7/7:
75. The English Pound lost about 6% against the US-Dollar the days before 7/7. Is there the possibility of insider trading? If yes, was it investigated and what was the result?"

Weaker than expected economic data for the U.K. economy, inflation rising and high street spending is slowing down. There's always the possibility on insider trading on any economic news.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 03:14 PM
Response to Reply #13
29. Answers
Really? Why should that be?

Well, if it is ok for you that there is only one CCTV photo that shows more or less unidentifiable persons and only one close up.

Erm... that should be pretty obvious. Photos were released the 2nd time because the suspects were still at large.

See above. What's striking is the absence of evidence but if you don't bother.
The second wave clearly shows that photos from inside the tube etc are available: So where are any photos showing the alleged bombers seated at the place where the bomb went off, any photo of any alleged bomber entering the tube that exploded etc etc.

I ride public transport all the time, I can't remember anyone's face. It's considered very rude to stare.

I know the London tube. But still why is there not a single witness(and Bruce Lait was very capable of describing other people in the tube) and the only one that if all over the news clearly didn't see Hussaini what of course doesn't bother the news. So, we have no eyewitness and no photo that is publicly released.

I'm sure police will be eager to ask any suspects that very question.

Suspects are dead.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
The Straight Story Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 11:27 PM
Response to Reply #29
33. A little confused
'Not a single witness' and yet we have many stills of them via camera being there. Which leaves what to question?
1. The images are fake, they were never there?
2. People saw them, but like any other face in a crowd scanned it and moved on. They were, to me, more likely to remember some hot blonde or studly guy then to remember someone like these blokes.
3. If people did remember them, then would the question be 'how could someone remember one person out of thousands they saw - unless they were a plant paid to remember them'

The game can be played all day. Especially the media reports - they often go with what they have at the moment, improvise, or go on rumor (or potential new sources). Stories change moment to moment - the media seems more on trial here then anyone else. But most of us expect things not to be reported 100% accurate in breaking news.

The goverment has released some images and are under no obligation at this time to release them all. Who knows how long it takes to get them all anyway.

Sure there are questions we can dig for answers for - but one wonders why certain questions are given import....
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #33
35. CCTV
'Not a single witness' and yet we have many stills of them via camera being there.

No, we haven't. We only have a CCTV still from Luton and one close up from Hussain from Luton. Nothing else from 7/7 has been published.

I agree it is more likely to remember a hot blonde yet what are the odds that the only eyewitness that was all over the news certainly didn't see the alleged bomber and quite likely even wasn't on the bus no. 30 at all? The other eyewitness Bruce Lait is very capable of describing people in his carriage but he clearly states that there wasn't anybody even close to where the bomb went off nor was there a backsack.
I don't draw any conclusions. I find it odd that there should be numerous proofs especially CCTV stills and yet absolutly nothing has been presented.

the media seems more on trial here then anyone else.

I took very much care to use first hand accounts and to pay attention to the sources. And certainly the 26 minutes gap has nothing to do with the media. It's official. And the ever changing story around the bomb material and the timing devices changed beyound a shadow of a doubt. ANd changed again btw. Why is it so hard to analyse the explosives? How can they manage to have "strong forensic" proofs if only one passenger was identified at that moment etc. ALl theses objective questions.

Sure there are questions we can dig for answers for - but one wonders why certain questions are given import....

I don't understand your remark. Can you please elaborate!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
beam me up scottie Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
14. Why are you posting these in this forum?
Edited on Fri Jul-29-05 09:10 PM by beam me up scottie
Why do they have to answer anything?

You must think you're terribly important to post no less than 77 questions that you think need to be answered before you can consider the investigation complete.

Why don't you email your cute little list of questions to Scotland Yard and see how interested they are ?

Or send them to the BBC, the Guardian and The Times.

Or, better yet, do your own research and answer them yourself, because I'll bet the officials at Scotland Yard, the BBC, the Guardian and the Times would piss their pants from laughing so hard at the gall of a NOBODY requesting answers to HIS questions.

It is not the responsibility of our friends to satisfy your paranoia.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #14
30. Sorry to bother you
Can you please in best known British politeness explain me your comments?
Why is asking questions considered as an insult?
Why is asking questions considered as a sign of paranoia?
And btw the UK forum has no direct connection to the topic save the fact that the bombings took place in London.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
lockdown Donating Member (576 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
15. Bloody hell
c&p much?

(feels urge to disown self) :hide:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
T_i_B Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
16. zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
:boring:

Suspects have been arrested, and they will go on trial. Until then conspiracy whackos can relive themselves over http://www.davidicke.com for all I care.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
staticstopper Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 07:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
26. Don't what to be insensitive
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 07:40 PM by staticstopper
but how are we to trust *them* when by mainstream sources they are known to have exaggerated this, lied about that, are with holding X, released Y when they were not aloud to, and pointed fingers at someone who had nothing to do with z?

I say we keep the press and anyone else's feet to the fire and make them cross every T...and yes, I think what gets written here and then read by passerby has some effect.

May God watch over and bless your great country.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 03:17 PM
Response to Reply #16
31. Thanks for snoring
Excuse me to wake you up but the suspects are dead and won't go on trial.
There is a difference between 7/7 and 7/21 but doesn't matter I suspect.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
17. I only ever read one useful line on a Neocon website. It was ....
... "Don't feed the troll."

:argh:

'Nuff said.

The Skin
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Benbow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #10
18. Some of this is now sub-judice, may I remind the Brits on DU -
and UK-based Brits must observe the legal restrictions, if we don't want to find our posts perhaps produced in court by the defence to show that the defendant cannot have a fair trial (and then perhaps find ourselves prosecuted too). This doesn't mean that we can't discuss ongoing developments but we cannot expect the mods here to act as if they were subject to UK law and pull any posts that breach UK laws. When it comes to talking about the suspects, to quote from a moderator guidance note on the BBC message boards,

"once a suspect is arrested for an offence, or offences, legal restrictions apply. Being arrested doesn't in itself indicate guilt, so messages posted to the board which presume guilt on behalf of specific individuals may need to be removed for legal reasons. This ruling applies to all instances of legal proceedings, not just in relation to these incidents."

Be safe, not sorry, I suggest.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
non sociopath skin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Good point, Benbow.
The Skin
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
evermind Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #18
20. Doesn't seem to have stopped the UK press, though
Edited on Sat Jul-30-05 07:57 AM by evermind
with headlines like "benefit bombers", etc...

Pretty much as was the case in major IRA trials like that of the Birmingham Six (who, as you know, were subsequently found to have been framed by a hugely corrupt and criminal police grouping in Birmingham...)

Personally, I think it's a bit far-fetched to imagine legal action in respect of postings here. Do you know of any previous cases where sub-judice has been used to remove web bbs postings from a site not hosted in the UK? I'm not sure that a "foreign" discussion site where people coming from multiple viewpoints express their views would even be covered...?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Benbow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:28 PM
Response to Reply #20
21. Tabloids like the Sun have been dreadful and are already being criticised
by MPs.

"I think it's a bit far-fetched to imagine legal action in respect of postings here."

That's not the point - it is da law in the UK and applies to Brits, there is always a first time, and this forum technology has not been around that long. A Brit planning to break the law, expecting to be "protected" by the fact that a discussion site is "foreign", may be in for a nasty surprise.



Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
evermind Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 12:50 PM
Response to Reply #21
22. Does it apply to Brits publishing abroad? Perhaps not (n/t)
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Benbow Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 02:35 PM
Response to Reply #22
23. You are missing the point of sub judice -
It is about ensuring that the accused gets a fair trial. How does a statement that could prejudice the defendant's rights (made by a Brit publishing in the UK) become a statement that does not prejudice the defendant's rights merely BECAUSE IT WAS PUBLISHED ABROAD?!

I heard a Member of Parliament saying this evening, on Radio 4, that any defence lawyer worth his salt will be taking maximum advantage of the tabloid newspaper headlines already published: such as "One down, three to go" (Sun, after the shooting of the Brazilian, before we knew that he was innocent) or "bombers arrested in raid on West London flat" (Evening Standard today, I am paraphrasing: I can't remember the exact wording of the headline but it was saying that the two men arrested are the bombers, when of course under English law they are "suspects" only). These headlines are very likely to form part of the defence, in that it will be asserted that they already prevent the suspects from having a fair trial.

It is very important: under the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, everyone has a right to a fair trial. That presupposes that you are innocent until proved guilty.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
evermind Donating Member (833 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 05:19 PM
Response to Reply #23
24. The statement and it's consequences don't change, but AFAIK
British law only applies in the UK.

Realistically speaking, the prospects of the suspects getting a fair trial are unlikely to be substantially lowered by any posts on DU, I think!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
staticstopper Donating Member (314 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Jul-30-05 07:18 PM
Response to Original message
25. Great Work!
I guess people are getting better with news and internet investigations. Or are things moving faster lately?

But just one things stands out to me and it's not even a big point you made.

I think a bus driver asking a cop which roads would be blocked and which would not, seems very plausable, even for an old pro...how could he know the fast changing events? Even his dispatcher would be mostly in the dark.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Aug-06-05 03:21 PM
Response to Reply #25
32. Thanks
The busdriver didn't ask the police man which road would be blocked. If he would have I completely agree with your assertion but he asked a warden in which street he was.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
philb Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Aug-10-05 11:32 PM
Response to Original message
34. Witnesses say bombs in London were under the trains
has this been discussed here?

Is there more on it? Have authorities reacted to the witness statements implying the alleged bombers weren't responsible for the bombings?


Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Aug-11-05 02:42 AM
Response to Reply #34
36. Bruce Lait
see in the original post.
Only one newspaper published his observation and no follow up from authorities.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
John Doe II Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Aug-21-05 10:01 AM
Response to Original message
37. Update
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Tue Jan 14th 2025, 01:40 AM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Topic Forums » September 11 Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC