Tin Foil Experts Please -- 35,000 lbs of explosives and a crater in Utah

[cthrumatrix]

Eyewitnesses say truck was 'gone' after explosion

Rashae Ophus Johnson DAILY HERALD


The quickest route to Denver from Salt Lake is northeast through Wyoming, but the two chemical engineers weren't in any rush Wednesday as they headed to a job site in Colorado.

So Ed Cerise and Glenn Welch instead headed southeast on U.S. Highway 6.

This is the scenic route, and the sights on Wednesday were awesome indeed.

As they maneuvered the dizzying "red narrows" passage through Spanish Fork Canyon, the men encountered a truck sprawled on its side and blazing.

"The fire got bigger and bigger and started moving toward the cab," Cerise said. "It was burning way too fast to be a normal load."

No one realized the unmarked truck was loaded with 35,500 pounds of explosives, but the scorching heat of the inferno nudged the small crowd of onlookers back from the scene. The truck tires burst, and they feared the fuel tank would erupt.

http://www.harktheherald.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=News&file=article&sid=61849&g2Id=25669

A truck "rolled over" and exploded?

In these days of "dirty bombs" and Bushco Plans...I don't trust them.

[Pachamama]

1. "blasting caps and cord"? Yeah, right....

...no tinfoilhat...that story doesn't pass the smell test to me....

[Mairead]

6. I could believe it -- det cord is an explosive all by itself

The part that I don't like is that the damned truck allegedly wasn't marked with the required warning signs for explosives.

[DoYouEverWonder]

2. I'd be curious to find out

what a truck loaded with so much hazardous material was taking the 'scenic route'?

[cthrumatrix]

3. driver walked away...?????? and truck vaporized

[DoYouEverWonder]

4. That can happen

If the truck rolled and then a fire started before it hit the explosives there could be time to get out.

I saw one down in the Keys where a tanker truck was transferring fuel to a storage tank. A spark at the pump started a fire but fortunately the 3 guys in the area were able to go for swim and get rescued before the storage tank blew. I'll tell you that was some explosion. I could feel the heat on my back as I ran away.

[shockingelk]

9. yes - better article

motorists helped the driver and passenger out, explosion happened shortly later.

http://www.14wfie.com/Global/story.asp?S=3709857&nav=3w6odDVO

[shockingelk]

7. Avoid prohibited tunnels?

If not that, the truck was just a few minutes away from the explosives factory.

[DoYouEverWonder]

10. That makes sense then

If they were just coming from a nearby site. Thanks.

[ProfessorGAC]

14. Still Should Have Been Placarded

DOT law, you know! There is no limit to the jurisdiction on this. If it's off private property, on any type of road, it needs placards to illuminate the hazard.
The Professor

[Gormy Cuss]

19. The truck has just picked up the load

opting for the scenic route was said by witnesses who happened upon the accident. Another article posted yesterday suggested this route was close to the explosives plant, so it may been the best route for the truck.
Did I miss something that said otherwise?

[charlie]

5. Osama's coming for YOU. Boogah boogah!

LOS ANGELES (AP) - The FBI has warned police that al-Qaida cells might use fuel trucks as weapons to attack Los Angeles, New York and Chicago, but officials stressed Thursday the warning was based on uncorroborated intelligence.

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGBG2Q4R9CE.html

[izzie]

8. I find this a real odd story.

I am not sure why.

[oneighty]

11. Rule one when hauling explosives

Do not carry detonators and explosives in close proximity to each other. Blasting caps are detonates. For instance detonates in glove compartment explosives in the rear.

At least it was so when I had an explosive drivers license in the navy. Vehicles carrying explosives (were/are?) required to have 'Explosives' warnings front rear and sides, as best I can recall.

Newspaper says there is 'Unexploded Ordnance' from the truck scattered about the area.

'Explosive Ordnance' refers to military things, at least it used to.

180

[Ian David]

12. Newspapers can't always get all the nuances and vocabury right

Let's face it-- we don't have the smartest press.

[wli]

13. tinfoil??? Anyway, the official story is BS.

No idea what really happened, but that story is chock full of holes.

[uncle ray]

15. i guess the islamic fundies got a problem with the church of LDS?

maybe they see Utah as a good place to get a foothold in the US?

sometimes shit blows up. what's more curious to me, seems like theres been about half a dozen large explosions this week in the us.

[Javaman]

16. Call me crazy, but usally, vehicles carrying munitions are usually...

escorted, right?

Don't they usually have a trunk in front and one in back with those orange flags, blah blah blah safety stuff????

[donsu]

17. yes, they have huge signs and a vehicle with signs in front and one

in back.

[Javaman]

18. I thought so, so why was this moron carrying 35K of explosives??

Something smells about this. Everyone is focusing on the size of the blast and the damage it caused but no one is asking why he had all these explosives.

Police officer Homer: Excuse me mr. mcvey, why is your rider truck filled to the brim with explosive material?

mcvey: I like big fireworks...

Police officer Homer: okay, move along.

[Must_B_Free]

20. Both men from Idaho

one is former military.

If trucks carrying stuff like this are maintained by two men, we really aren't safe. Al Queda could have hijacked the truck...

[Silverhair]

22. It is IMPOSSIBLE to stand super tight guard over EVERYTHING.

Just can't be done. If you think, really think, about the available targets you would realize that if every single person in the USA were a highly trained armed guard, we still would not have enough guards.

That is just a fact of life.

[Javaman]

23. I agree, but...

It takes no effort by the guy who sold them to alert the local authorities that some boob is hauling 35K of explosives.

Call me crazy again, but I would think that would send up some red flags.

I mean honestly, wht is this guy using that amount of explosives for? His own strip mining company?

[Silverhair]

26. They were NOT his personal, very own, explosives.

Do you actually think that truckers OWN the loads they transport????

Do you think that an explosive manufacturing company only makes small amounts of the stuff? A 35.5K lbs load is NORMAL for a truck to haul. Quarries use tons of the stuff.

If you want local law enforcement notified of EVERY hazmat load that goes through someplace, then they are going to be doing NOTHING ELSE but hazmat escort. Remember, there are LOTS of other extremely hazardous stuff that has to be moved around for ROUTINE manufacturing to continue.

Explosives aren't the ONLY, even the most dangerous load around.

[Javaman]

28. Actually, I didn't know who owned the explosives...

but isn't that beyond the point of my question?

I would think, logically, that anyone transporting a large amount of explosives would have the attention of the local authorities, let alone homeland security, given the current fear insanity regarding terrorists and the movement of explosive materials.

I am also aware that explosives aren't the only type of dangerous loads that are transported. This is why most hazardous materials are transported usually at night or not during rush hours. I used to live near a defense plant and they would always, have escorts with their vehicles carrying hazardous materials.

Also, I'm not saying that the police have to escort the vehicle, just notified. Perhaps, maybe the company he works at, could have a lead vehicle that would have kept his speed in check.

My point in the notification is: since I didn't know who owned the explosives, a notification process should be in order, whether it's privately bought or bought by a corporation. I would believe tracking shipments of hazardous material would help prevent theft and missing loads. Thus the notification of the local, state or federal authorities, depending on the situation.

If this is done already, great! If not, I believe it should be done.

[Silverhair]

30. Well, you DID ask what he was doing with the explosives.

You DID ask if he had his own strip mining company. That implies that you thought that the explosives were his personally.

There would be NO point in notification of law enforcement unless you wanted them to do something about it.

Hazmat loads are NOT restricted to night. I personally have carried them at all times, AND in rush hour traffic too. Some cities DO require you to take a loop around the city, unless you are delivering them to an address in the city.

The driver is the one with the responsibility for the load.

You don't seem to know much about the trucking industry.

[CBGLuthier]

25. that's not particularly funny, you know

BTW, it was spelled Mcveigh.

Oh and why is the guy a "moron" for driving a dynamite truck?

Did you perhaps think that dynamite is magically transported to its final destinations?

Like every other commodity in this country it has to be delivered and is usually done by trucks driven by hard working people.

Some people have to make a living you know.

[Silverhair]

27. I guess you forgot about the 4th Amendment.

When you are stopped by an officer, he has to have probable cause to ask you to open the trunk of your car, or the back of your rental truck. So how is he going to know what is in McVeigh's truck? Even if he opens it, how is he going to know what the stuff is? Do you think it would have a label saying "HOMEMADE EXPLOSIVES"?

Your attempt at humor was a slam at law enforcement for being lax, but if they did the type of inspections that you seem to want, you would be slamming them for 4th Amendment violations.

[Silverhair]

21. Take off the tinfoil hats.

I am an ex-trucker and have take big rigs over that same highway. It does save over 100 miles if you are going from Denver to Salt Lake City. There is nothing wrong with taking the route with a truck. I have also taken trucks over Hoover Dam many times, Hwy 50 in Nevada, Hwy 89 in Utah, & Rte 6 around the tunnel at Loveland Pass in Colorado and many, many other interesting roads.

If you know what you are doing in the truck, there is no problem. If you screw up, there can be problems.

With as many trucks as are on the road, sometimes some drivers screw up. And sometimes some of those screw-ups will involve a hazardous load. Explosives are used for LOTS of other stuff besides the military. So it is inevitable that sooner or later, somebody will screw up.

Regarding the need to keeps the blasting caps in the glove compartment. I don't think the glove compartment is big enough to hold several pallet loads of caps. They were probably well cushioned against shock by the packing material. After all, it wasn't shock that set them off, it was heat.

Regarding the lack of warning placards. I would want to know more details. Certainly explosives require placards, and special signs.

If you rush to blame W everytime for anything that happens, you end up losing ALL credibility.

Sometimes, shit just happens.

Edit: typo

[Javaman]

24. As much as I think moron* is a dope, he had nothing to do with this...

Not knowing the full details, as I stated earlier, with that kind of load, I would think warning flags and an escort is needed.

[dogday]

29. Nothing like a heated ride in the desert

with a truck full of amunition....

[Redstone]

31. Christ on his Cross, can we PLEASE give this subject

the mercy killing that it deserves?

You know, there are MUCH more important things going on out there than brain-full-of-crack theories about a goddamn truck accident that actually is exactly what it appears to be...A TRUCK ACCIDENT!

Redstone