Why was WTC7 evacuated and why did mayor decide to move his

[philb]

control center, even though WTC7 had special construction including lots of expensive emergency management equipment??
And was the fire alarm system turned off on 9/11??
And why was a decision made not to fight the fire there early in the day when the fire was small?
and to let a very expensive building with lots of important agencies burn without a fight??

The damage to WTC7 apparently occurred when WTC1 fell; long after the decision to evacuate and find a new control center. No major damage occurred when WTC2 fell.


Captain R. Goldbach

At that time, somebody had come into 1 World Trade Center and told us that the Mayor was looking for the Fire Commissioner.

WTC7 before either tower fell
Before we got back to the command post, somebody told us that the Mayor's group had now gone to 7 World Trade Center to the OEM command post. We went from where we were at that point, it was somewhere
around Vesey or Vesey or something like that.

We got into 7 World Trade Center, we took the escalator up to
the second floor, then we were going to take the elevator. I think it was John Peruggia from operations, but I'm not sure, at that point told us we had to get out of that building. Everybody was evacuated in that building- (blanked out info)
We walked out of 7 World Trade Center, now following the whole group of people from City Hall who were somewhere ahead of us. I think we were on Washington Street near Greenwich Street, when the north tower started to collapse. (actually it was WTC2)

We started working our way, I think it was up Broadway, I believe. Stopping at several places where the Mayor was looking for a place where we might be able to set up some type of - I don't know whether it was a command post or a place just to talk, and he was giving news reports as we were walking on the street. Every couple of minutes he would stop and give an update on whatever he had. Just what was going on as we were walking uptown.


We walked all the way up to 5 truck in a panic and haste situation. We just about forced our way into the fire house and we set up the - I guess the initial operations point from the Mayor's office at 5 truck. We were there for -- prior to getting to 5 truck, the other tower fell down. (WTC1)

John McLaughlin had left us before we started to walk uptown. I remember telling him to try to get the car, so after the first building collapsed and before the second building collapsed, I told him we were going to be -- I didn't know where we were going.

At that point , I guess the Mayor had made t h e decision to move the City Hall group, the operations command to the Police Academy. We left from there . We went to the Police Academy for again, I guess several hours, trying to set up some type of Fire Department command post at the Police Academy. We had the phones. There was a big discussion going on at that point about pulling all of our units out of 7 World Trade Center. Chief Nigro didn't feel it was worth taking the
slightest chance of somebody else getting injured.
So at that point we made a decision to take all of our units out of 7 World Trade Center because there was a potential for collapse.
Q. It was on fire, correct, Captain?
A. Yes, it was on fire at that time. Then they said it suffered some form of structural damage. These things were going on at the same time. The fact that we thought we found Ganci and Feehan and his place at 7 World Trade Center. Made the decision to back
everybody away, took all the units and moved them all the way back toward North End Avenue, which is as far I guess west as you could get on Vesey Street, to keep them out of the way.

(what caused the fire and when???; the decision to evacuate WTC7 and find another control center was made before either tower collapsed; WTC7 had a block with buildings between it and the towers and no indication at that time the towers might collapse? ; WTC7 was a specially built building with lots of expensive emergency management equipment there)

[philb]

1. damage to WTC7 occurred when WTC1 fell

CHIEF FRANK FELLINI FDNY

The major concern at that time at that particular location was number Seven, building number seven, which had taken a big hit from the north tower. When it fell, it ripped steel out from between the third and sixth floors across the facade on Vesey Street. We were concerned that the fires on several floors and the missing steel would result in the building collapsing. So for the next five or six hours we kept firefighters from working anywhere near that building, which included the whole north side of the World Trade Center complex. Eventually
around 5:00 or a little after, building number seven came down.


(the damage to WTC7 described was on the SW corner of the building apparently) http://911research.wtc7.net/index.html
http://www.wtc7.net/


a lot of fires in such buildings were much worse than WTC7 when the decision was made to evacuate and not fight the fires; or even turn off problematic equipment and systems?

[philb]

2. Other WTC buildings had more fire, more damage, didn't fall

WTC 5 was severely damaged by fallout from the collapse of the towers. Serious fires raged through WTC 5 for hours. Despite the massive structural damage shown by the holes, and fires far more severe than those in WTC 1, 2, and 7, WTC 5 did not collapse. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc5.html WTC 6 was severely damaged on September 11 with two holes that extend the height of the building. It appears that fires may have raged through WTC 6. From the appearance of the remains of WTC 6, it probably had fires similar in severity to those in WTC 5. Despite the massive structural damage shown by the holes, and fires probably more severe than those in WTC 1, 2, and 7, WTC 6 did not collapse.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/wtc6_5.html

WTC 4 was severely damaged by fallout from the collapse of the South Tower, with all but one wing of the building having collapsed to ground level. The portion of WTC 4 that remained standing had a blackened appearance suggesting that it sustained severe fires. Despite the crushing of most of WTC 4 by fallout from the towers, it does not appear that the fires caused any further collapse of this building. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc4.html

WTC 3 was first partially crushed by the steel skeleton fragments from the South Tower and then further crushed by those from the North Tower. In each case the rubble, falling from as much as 1300 feet, collapsed regions spanning several floors but was arrested by the building's steel structure. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc3.html

but the firefighters did fight some of the fires there

[rman]

3. Indira Singh re WTC 7

KPFA "Guns and Butter"
Interviews with Indira Singh
http://www.kpfa.org/archives/archives.php?id=13&limit=N
"Ground Zero 911, Blueprint For Terror, Part One" April 27th 2005
http://www.kpfa.org/cgi-bin/gen-mpegurl.m3u?server=209.81.10.18&port=80&file=dummy.m3u&mount=/data/20050427-Wed1400.mp3 (mp3)

(ca 11 minutes into the interview)

"...the triage site i was setting up was to the east of building 7, where building 7 came down ... what happened with that particular triage site is that after mid-day we had to evacuate because they told us building 7 was coming down ... i do believe that they brought building 7 down because i heard that they were going to bring it down because it was unstable because of the collateral damage ... i cannot attest to the validity of that, all i attest to is that by noon or one o'clock they told us we had to move from that triage site ... because building 7 was coming down or being brought down ... the fire department, and they did use the words "we're going to have to bring it down"..."

[philb]

4. and the owner said he had it "pulled"

and to pull means controlled demolition.

But there was a lot of discussion about WTC7 by in the firefighter statements. It appears that a decision was made early not to fight the fires in WTC7 even though they weren't as bad as the fires in other buildings at WTC where they did fight them, and they didn't collapse. Until they later brought them down by controlled demolition.

The turned off fire alarms in WTC7 are suscpicious, and the decision to not fight the fires strange. They had a lot of firefighters at WTC that day. And more available from surrounding areas.

But maybe the towers falling shook some of the "leaders" up, and they made strange decisions. Its clear that WTC7 had a lot less "structural damage" than some of the other WTC buildings that didn't collapse.

There were no buildings that collapsed at WTC that didn't have a lot of evidence of explosions.

[philb]

5. Other WTC buildings had more fire, more damage, didn't fall

FIREFIGHTER KEITH FACCILONGA

Five World Trade Center with fire showing out of just about every single window of Five World Trade. The building was fully involved,
the whole entire building.

WTC 5 was severely damaged by fallout from the collapse of the towers. Serious fires raged through WTC 5 for hours. Despite the massive structural damage shown by the holes, and fires far more severe than those in WTC 1, 2, and 7, WTC 5 did not collapse. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc5.html WTC 6 was severely damaged on September 11 with two holes that extend the height of the building. It appears that fires may have raged through WTC 6. From the appearance of the remains of WTC 6, it probably had fires similar in severity to those in WTC 5. Despite the massive structural damage shown by the holes, and fires probably more severe than those in WTC 1, 2, and 7, WTC 6 did not collapse.
http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/analysis/wtc6_5.html
WTC 4 was severely damaged by fallout from the collapse of the South Tower, with all but one wing of the building having collapsed to ground level. The portion of WTC 4 that remained standing had a blackened appearance suggesting that it sustained severe fires. Despite the crushing of most of WTC 4 by fallout from the towers, it does not appear that the fires caused any further collapse of this building. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc4.html
WTC 3 was first partially crushed by the steel skeleton fragments from the South Tower and then further crushed by those from the North Tower. In each case the rubble, falling from as much as 1300 feet, collapsed regions spanning several floors but was arrested by the building's steel structure. http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/wtc3.html

[philb]

6. Doctor doing triage at WTC7 when WTC2 fell

DR. MICHAEL GUTTENBERG

At triage area on loading dock of WTC7 when tower 2 fell. We walked our way through the loading dock by feel. We got to the opposite side. We found our way out of one of the back doors of No. 7 and came outside, I ultimately ended up back on West Street, so I'm going to think -- and it was some
packing lots and stuff like that. So I actually – I think I came out by Barclay, and proceeded back down --
ultimately proceeded back down to West.

[philb]

7. Doesn't this conflict with the official story a bit?? Firefigher statemen

FIREFIGHTER ROBERT HUMPHREY

As I was waiting, then all of a sudden the second engine company pulled up right next to 7 World Trade Center, which is on West Broadway and Vesey, but they were right across. They were right next to it, directly to the east of 7 World Trade Center and across from the post office.
Then I helped him hook up, and then after that I think it was 21 engine, 21 or 22. I think it's 21, though. He hooked up a little further down on Vesey Street. So we had three pumpers pushing water into the building. At that point between actually – probably before the third engine company came is when the second plane hit

[HamdenRice]

8. There apparently was a massive fire in WTC7

Just to be fair. I've only seen the pics one place on the net -- and that was on a thread on this forum a couple of weeks ago.

Most pics of the fire that seem small are of WTC 7 looking from the east. The fire looking from the west, at the <south?> west side of the building were massive.

It's just strange that those pics are so rare. Can anyone else find them? I can't find them anymore.

[pox americana]

9. If you're thinking of the pics in this post, they're fake.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=125&topic_id=47806&mesg_id=48308

That's WTC 5 burning, not WTC 7. Incidentally WTC 5 did not collapse.

[HamdenRice]

10. That's them -- you mean Lared lied? ...

or was he just mistaken? I'm beginning to get very suspicious of that guy.

Thanks for the info.

[philb]

11. Firefighters reported every floor of WTC5 was burning; yet it didn't colla

pse
I've posted URLs before

[hack89]

16. Did firefighters also report massive structural damage as well?

I didn't think so.

[philb]

12. Fire Chief asked same question as me. Why didn't they fight the fire

at WTC7?


CHIEF THOMAS MCCARTHY
WTC7
THEY HAD THREE FLOORS OF FIRE, THREE SEPARATE FLOORS PROBABLY 10 11 AND 15 IT LOOKED LIKE JUST BURNING MERRILY IT WAS PRETTY AMAZING YOU KNOW ITS THE AFTERNOON IN MANHATTAND A MAJOR HIGH RISE IS BURNING AND THEY SAID WE KNOW.
I THINK THEY SAID THEY HAD SEVEN TO TEN FLOORS THAT WERE FREESTANDING AND THEY WERENT GOING TO SEND ANYONE IN. THEY JUST HAD FLOOD OF GUYS STANDING THERE THEY WERE JUST WAITING FOR IT TO COME DOWN.


Hard to believe they apparently didn't even shut some fuel lines in the building. What was going on?

[hack89]

13. For starters they thought it was dangerous and would collapse

For starters they thought it was dangerous and would collapse:

but also we were pretty sure that 7 World Trade Center would collapse. Early on, we saw a bulge in the southwest corner between floors 10 and 13, and we had put a transit on that and we were pretty sure she was going to collapse. You actually could see there was a visible bulge, it ran up about three floors. It came down about 5 o’clock in the afternoon, but by about 2 o’clock in the afternoon we realized this thing was going to collapse.

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/hayden.html

So we go there and on the north and east side of 7 it didn’t look like there was any damage at all, but then you looked on the south side of 7 there had to be a hole 20 stories tall in the building, with fire on several floors. Debris was falling down on the building and it didn’t look good.

But they had a hoseline operating. Like I said, it was hitting the sidewalk across the street, but eventually they pulled back too. Then we received an order from Fellini, we’re going to make a move on 7. That was the first time really my stomach tightened up because the building didn’t look good. I was figuring probably the standpipe systems were shot. There was no hydrant pressure. I wasn’t really keen on the idea. Then this other officer I’m standing next to said, that building doesn’t look straight. So I’m standing there. I’m looking at the building. It didn’t look right, but, well, we’ll go in, we’ll see.

http://www.firehouse.com/terrorist/911/magazine/gz/boyle.html


Also there was this:

• The building had sustained damage from debris falling into the building, and they were not sure about the structural stability of the building.

• The building had large fires burning on at least six floors. Any one of these six fires would have been considered a large incident during normal FDNY operations.

• There was no water immediately available for fighting the fires.

• They didn’t have equipment, hose, standpipe kits, tools, and enough handie talkies for conducting operations inside the building.


http://wtc.nist.gov/pubs/NISTNCSTAR1-81.pdf

page 165

One Battalion Chief coming from the building indicated that they had searched floors 1 through 9 and found that the building was clear.390 In the process of the search, the Battalion Chief met the building’s Fire Safety Director and Deputy Fire Safety Director on the ninth floor. The Fire Safety Director reported
that the building’s floors had been cleared from the top down. By this time, the Chief Officer responsible for WTC 7 reassessed the building again and determined that fires were burning on the following floors:
6, 7, 8, 17, 21, and 30.391 No accurate time is available for these actions during the WTC 7 operations; however, the sequence of event indicates that it occurred during a time period from 12:30 p.m. to
approximately 2:00 p.m.

The Chief Officer then met with his command officer to discuss the building’s condition and FDNY’s capabilities for controlling the building fires. A Deputy Chief who had just returned from inside the
building reported that he had conducted an inspection up to the 7th or 8th floor.392 He indicated that the stairway was filling with smoke and that there was a lot of fire inside the building. The chiefs discussed the situation and the following conditions were identified:

• The building had sustained damage from debris falling into the building, and they were not sure about the structural stability of the building.

• The building had large fires burning on at least six floors. Any one of these six fires would have been considered a large incident during normal FDNY operations.

• There was no water immediately available for fighting the fires.

• They didn’t have equipment, hose, standpipe kits, tools, and enough handie talkies for conducting operations inside the building.

At approximately, 2:30 p.m., FDNY officers decided to completely abandon WTC 7, and the final order was given to evacuate the site around the building. 395, 396 The order terminated the ongoing rescue
operations at WTC 6 and on the rubble pile of WTC 1. Firefighters and other emergency responders were withdrawn from the WTC 7 area, and the building continued to burn. At approximately 5:20 p.m., some three hours after WTC 7 was abandoned the building experienced a catastrophic failure and collapsed.

[philb]

14. I'm not in a position to judge but some items on your list are not consist

consistent with reports by firefighters at the site.

There was water available as reported by firemen at the site.
There were more fires on more floors in other buildings where the
fires were fought.
After WTC1 & 2 fell, there were huge numbers of firefighters there
and equipment that could have been used; a lot of them were told to just wait around, as noted by the fire chief.
The equipment list doesn't seem to be accurate, there seemed to be these things available, per the fireman reports.
A decision appears to have been made to evacuate the building and move the mayors HQ even before the building recieved structural damage.
The fire alarm system in WTC7 was turned off the night before 9/11.
If working, fires could have been dealt with as they occurred.

Why didn't they shut down systems and pipelines that might cause problems. This was supposed to the the HQ of Emergency Management in NY. Do they have no plans for such contingencies, esp. given this is the WTC that was known to be targeted.
They seemed to have no plan to deal with the event even though it was expected.


WTC7
FIREFIGHTER MICHAEL Morabito
We waited there for a while and then 7 came down.
BATTALION CHIEF CONGIUSTA: They don't really want to know about 7.

[hack89]

15. These are personal accounts from firefighters at the scene..

Take it or leave it - I didn't expect you to believe them.

[philb]

17. I believe they are statements from people at the scene along with

the ones I have posted. There seem to have been some strange circumstances and differences of opinions. Hopefully it will all get sorted out.


There's a start on a compilation of fireman statements regarding WTC7 from the N.Y. Times site at:
http://www.flcv.com/911fwtc7.html

I'll try to add more as I see them and have time.

[philb]

18. Water pumps in WTC7 used to fight fires in WTC1

FIREFIGHTER GEORGE RODRIGUEZ

Fire pumps in WTC7 used to fight fires in WTC1
I saw the maintenance crew to Seven World Trade Center standing there watching the building. I gathered them up and asked them if they had fire pumps in the building. They did. I had a Siamese directly across Washington Street on Vesey going into the towers, so I used the maintenance men and an engine company chauffeur from 26 Engine named Mike Incantalupo. I used him to hook up a source of water from their fire pumps to my rig and into the World Trade Center.
WTC2
At that point we were supplying the standpipe Siamese. All was going well with that. At that point the preliminary sounds of the collapse
started, the loud crackling sounds. We all started running.