We Have A Locked Thread About INDYMEDIA: There is a very serious .....

[Christophera]

problem that delver has brought up. I've attended INDYMEDIA meetings and seen them sabotage their own protocols to stop or hinder effective dissemination methods.

These 501(c3) financed web sites are regarded as credible and fair sources for publishing and they are not. There is a very definite limit on what will be shared and forms of censorship do exist. I've been censored there.

This is why the concrete core is so important. The disinformation campaigns; pod, laser, missile, nuke, hologram, scalar; depend on NO UNITY by the people on any substancial issue based in evidence. Then they can be used as delver shows us here,

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=125x54587

to make the entire truth/democracy movement look ridiculous.

The core lie (that it was multiple steel columns) is a PROFOUND issue of culpability and will shut the behavior demonstrated at INDYMEDIA down.


Why do you think there are people in this forum that object to it so much?

[spooked911]

1. with all due respect, pod, laser, missile, nuke, hologram, scalar theories

are not disinfo. They are serious theories that should be taken into consideration.

The fact is, there are people (not me) who think your incessant focus on the WTC demolition and the concrete core is disinfo.

Let's stop throwing the disinfo label around, okay?

The reason I think the NYC Indymedia are not into 9/11 "conspiracy" issues is because of the anti-semitic connections that several 9/11 skeptics have. There is nothing we can do about this. It is very sad NYC Indymedia has branded the whole movement as taboo because of this, but this seems to be the problem.

So, FUCK NYC Indymedia. I don't think 9/11 truth is going to live or die because of them.

BUT, the problem that NYC Indymedia has with 9/11 may be the same problem that a lot of media groups have with 9/11-- the anti-semitic nature of some of the skeptics. I don't know what to do about this except to ignore this issue and just focus on what we can do and who we can reach.

[rman]

2. The anti-semitic label is thrown around more easily

then the disinfo label.

More often then not it turns out anti-semitism is nothing more then criticism of Israeli policies and/or allegations of Israeli involvement in illegal activities.

Really the anti-semitic label does not mean anything to me any more. If your goal is to discredit Indymedia, then you failed completely as far as i am concerned.

[Informed Citizen]

4. ???

rman,

Did you read the post to which you are responding? Spooked was making the point that Indymedia might have some kind of decent reason to ban 9/11. You turn around and undermine the basis for that reason, actually making Indymedia look worse.

- I.C.

P.S. I hope that you haven't dismissed the fact that a lot of people are anti-semitic.

[rman]

5. i misunderstood, but the point remains;

I think there are not very many people who are anti-semitic, outside of fundamentalist groups within moslim society.
I do think there are lot of people who are quite critical of 'Isreal', and who are being called anti-semitic.

Claims of anti-semitism on their own, just don't cut it for me - whichever way it goes.

[spooked911]

6. I agree with what you said about anti-semitism...

But I don't think you understood what I meant about Indymedia (probably I didn't express myself well). I meant that NYC Indy media was being hypersensitive about what is "anti-semitic", and that is why they are ignoring 9/11 questions.

[Informed Citizen]

3. Not disinfo, but distraction

Spooked,

The issue with the pods, and other such considerations, is not that they might not have existed. I agree that it is important for the research community to explore every angle. The issue is that these speculative issues do not belong in the educational or promotional area of the 9/11 truth movement. I have been arguing lately that there are two separate areas of this project. The all inclusive research area, which includes most everyone in here, and the more exclusive educational area, in which only the most compelling and well founded evidence is utilized. I feel that it is essential that these areas be recognized and kept distinct from one another. The demolition of the Twim Towers remains what I call secondary evidence. We can't prove it yet, and thus when it is presented along side more solid evidence, it tends to dilute the significance of that evidence. In an educational setting it distracts people from the fact that the case has already been made that the official story is bogus.

- I.C.

[spooked911]

7. Fair enough. But what do you consider "proved"?

I mean there is very little, if anything, absolutely proven showing that 9/11 was an inside job. That's why more people don't believe us. I think it is more the totality of the unresolved issues and various oddities than anything being totally "proven".

[Christophera]

8. Okay, Not Direct Disinfo-Indirect As In Misinfo

pod, laser, missile, nuke, hologram, scalar theories are not direct dissmissal of information, but it assists those who do that directly by providing alternative, distractive, confusing, basically erroneous information for them to mock and ridicule while providing bulk for packaging other, very solid information along with it, and dismissing all of it. This is exactly what NYC Indymedia is doing. Others are too. This cannot be reasonably denied.

The biggest lie on the planet is that the towers had steel cores.

It is biggest in reality because of its size and the fact there were 2 of them, and its widespread publication as well as the importance to our lives and those of our children, not to mention its relationship to our political situation. The demolition of the towers was the biggest event of 9-11 beside the loss of the lives of our brother and sister Americans. This cannot be reasonably denied.

Notice I do not do disinfo damage control as do sub media icons of late. Drawing attention away from facts of 9-11 and onto others with seemingly independant interests.

I'll accept a missle at the pentagon, but nowhere else.

There is ZERO evidence of pod, laser, missile, nuke, hologram, scalar and the strongest point any have promoting those things is that it appears there is no way else to explain the free fall and total pulverization. As if it were impossible any other way.

Gee, let us think about that ...................... Some promote that it is impossible without pod, laser, missile, nuke, hologram, scalar theories and others promote that only the official steel cores existed, something I KNOW to be false and structurally impossible to stand as well as not possible to eliminate from photos as we see. Notice their abcense is totaly unexplained.

One group promotes impossible theories to explain what appears impossible while the other group promotes an impossible structure that impossibly never appears in the demolition photos and cannot be possibly removed from them. Both groups espouse LIHOP and MIHOP and both groups oppose the concrete core. If you know what I know about steel, concrete and high explosives you would agree and say, "This cannot be reasonably denied. "

They espouse LIHOP and MIHOP to have acceptable motives in this virtual community and oppose the concrete core to obscure the possible, which also happens to have large amounts of evidence. This cannot be reasonably denied.

pod, laser, missile, nuke, hologram, scalar theories promote the notion that the government actually has functional technologies developed in those areas of science needed to actually have and use pod, laser, missile, nuke, hologram, scalar stuff. This promotes fear of government making people less likely to oppose those supposedly using the technologies. This cannot be reasonably denied.

Of course the reasonableness of all that I share here is determined by our human ability/inability to logically prioritize and use information.

Perhaps you might rethink what I'm doing.

Or, you might think that you can reasonably deny some of the things above I say you can't deny. Well, ............ you can try, but I must explained that I have been studying human behavior from the most fundamental level for a very long time, and, I've been using information that is so potent and intrinsic to us that the director of the American Psychological Association sent me a letter directly, that indirectly, through punctuation and relationship, says that the director of the A.P.A Ethics Department left their position because off the information about our human behavior that I mailed to the A.P.A.

Here is a scan of that letter.



After that, needless to say, my continued efforts to gain competent, logical response from the A.P.A. by following up on their reference was a joke.

[spooked911]

9. Fair enough. I'm curious what you put in the letter you sent to the

APA in the first place?

[Christophera]

10. Human Behavior Does Not Make Sense - Unconsiously Controlled

I noticed that many behaviors do not make sense, particuarly, or most importantly, official behaviors.

My research indicated that all people are mostly controlled by unconscious factors. In order to protect our futures I concluded that it was absolutely necessary to have a psychological authority recognize this fact.
I assembled earlier research on unconscious performance from the books, "Emotions and Memory" by John Rappaport and "HUMAN BEHAVIOR" by Stiener and Berelson and made inference logically based in the research results. That along with court documents completely shut the A.P.A. down as far as producing common sense comunications on the subject.